With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Vanbers · Jun 29, 2022

Well, uh, the question here is whether his agreement with Morpheus has an escape clause, or if old pal Morpheus thinks his buddy is crashing his kingdom on his couch forever.

Because, from what I recall, the Endless tend to take people breaking their deals... poorly.

Then again, not the most read up on this specific fragment of DC lore, so who knows.

moralrelativity · Jun 29, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
I care very little either way for sages who uses the Dream to learn of

uses -> use

Duke Long · Jun 29, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
This is probably the best shot I'm gunna get at getting shot of the bastard.

'rid of', I think.

Mr Zoat said:
A short, thin man wearing a one curtain with a turban made from the other one.

Is a 'one curtain' something I'm not understanding, or a mistake?

Windona · Jun 29, 2022

Opf yeah, a kingdom that has anti demon protections isn't going to be the pest.

Though now I wonder if part of the reason Morpheus gave Sandy those vision powers was to stop the Caliph's plan from happening.

Cuchulin said:
The Great Harun al-Rashid would be better off asking OL about that, connecting the Dream of the Bagdad of a Thousand and One Nights to the Middle East of this Earth would very likely help along some of OL's plans for making his Earth a better place.

We did see something like that in Mandated. But I get the feeling that a sort of place like that isn't exactly what he wants.

Darko · Jun 29, 2022

Windona said:
We did see something like that in Mandated. But I get the feeling that a sort of place like that isn't exactly what he wants

The fact that he'd potentially just be used by a human host instead of completely coming back could be unpleasant for him.

Mr Zoat · Jun 29, 2022

Darko said:
I meant put it in bold like other dates.

Thank you, corrected.

Duke Long said:
'rid of', I think.

'Getting shot of' ≡ 'getting rid of'.

Is a 'one curtain' something I'm not understanding, or a mistake?

Thank you, corrected.

moralrelativity said:
uses -> use

Thank you, corrected.

Sockmonkey · Jun 29, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
And the first person he asks of four is the demon one?

Yeah, not all that wise, Mr Caliph.

The fact that said demon is a Constantine pushes it past unwise and into "OHSHITSHITSHITSHIT" territory.

Darko · Jun 29, 2022

Sockmonkey said:
The fact that said demon is a Constantine pushes it past unwise and into "OHSHITSHITSHITSHIT" territory.

It's like mixing AIDS and Covid into one super disease.

Duke Long · Jun 29, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
'Getting shot of' ≡ 'getting rid of'.

Huh, I guess it must just be an English thing.

John Conner · Jun 29, 2022

Hi I'm new to this story, so if this has been asked before I apologize. Is there a copy of this story posted anywhere with the Graven chapters stripped out or posted as there own thread? I've been reading this and it's a bit jarring to go to the next chapter and find that it's an entirely separate story. Therefore it would be a bit easier to read if the two stories where in their own threads.

Someguy Somewhere · Jun 30, 2022

Welcome to the madhouse, and don't mind the T-800's John. They just want your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle.

As far as I know there are copies of the story up to relatively recent date in downloadable formats, but I'm not sure any of them filter out Grayven, or any of the other Alternate Lantern and Omake stories. You can generally tell by the white or red text which are Paragon and Renegade story arcs and try to skip ahead based on that. That's about all I can suggest.

As for it....eh...Grayven starts off rough but grows into being a decent story a little later on. I can see skipping it for clarity but it's still a good read once he gets going.

Coda · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
incorcism

I like where you're going with this word.

At a speculative level, I think if it were an attested word it would probably be "inhorcism" based on the original root words. I could also see "insorcism" as a legitimized eggcorn as if the root were "sorcery" instead of "horkos".

Mr Zoat said:
Sulaiman ben Daoud

Ah, abjad-based languages. I was going to correct this to "Suleiman bin Daoud", but this spelling is attested too!

Duke Long said:
Is a 'one curtain' something I'm not understanding, or a mistake?

He's making fun of the fabric, saying the guy's clothes and turban are made out of a pair of curtains.

Mr Zoat · Jun 30, 2022

8th November 2012
18:11 GMT +3

"…fury of a storm is simply not possible!"

I nod as Haroun the dream chaser gesticulates to emphasise his point.

"'Not possible' as in 'no one has ever done it and it would be immensely difficult' or 'categorically impossible'."

He throws up his hands. "To Allah, all things are possible, but to exist in a storm is to try and walk on ground that will bear no weight with legs that will bear no weight. Our existence here needs us-." He looks away as someone walks into the not-a-bar that totally never sells wine and certainly never sells it to good Muslims. "Ahmad, Ahmad, back me up!"

Ahmad looks over, clearly puzzled, but he shrugs and ambles over to join us. "Why do you need backup?"

"This pagan wants to go through a dream storm."

"Oh. Why?"

"To get to the other side."

"You wouldn't just die. The things that make up your body would cease to be." Ahmad looks concerned as he shakes his head. "Don't do it."

"Okay. Is it possible to go around a storm?"

Ahmad sits down next to his… Friend? And looks at Haroun to try and get some idea what's going on. Haroun is still clearly frustrated.

"Look, this city seems pretty normal because the Caliph and Dream brought it here as-is. In normal dreams, you're constantly interacting with worlds that have their own rules. They usually resemble the real world in some ways because people mostly dream what they know, and those commonalities make it possible to travel from one to the other."

"Yes, I understand-."

"Commonalities. The rule-breaks are commonalities too, and a lot of the time they're the bit that lingers longest. And when the dreamer awakens and they're not limiting things, the rule-breaks can all-"

He claps his hands.

"-smoosh together, and you get a storm."

"Primordial chaos."

"Ah… I imagine it's similar. If you want to know if they're the same you should check with an Imam."

"Hm. There are beings who can exist in raw chaos."

"Yeah. Evil spirits. And definitely not men."

"Why not just wait until it falls apart on its own?"

"I don't think this one will."

Both sets of eyes widen.

"You want to get through-?" / "You can't go through-!"

"Assume that I do."

Haroun sits back a little, clearly uncomfortable. "Well… Don't. The Lord of Dreams could probably let you through, for Allah has granted him domain over this place and all within it. I cannot imagine anything else that could."

"What would you do if you found yourself caught in a lesser storm?"

"Leave as quickly as I could. If I could not leave… Seek shelter and pray as hard as I could."

"How do you leave? If they're as chaotic as you say-."

"When you flee from a normal storm, you're going to get wet, but if you watch the path you can avoid being hit by a blow-over tree, or by lightning. Unless a dream has broken down entirely there are still conceptual links, they're just… Disrupted. So if you keep your wits about you and run, it's possible, but…"

"But it would be chancy, and you wouldn't want to do it if you could possibly avoid it."

They're both nodding.

"Is there a way to calm a storm, even if it's only over a small area?"

Ahmad nods. "Wizards who have studied the Dream can do that, but they only do it when the city is threatened directly, and then they can only calm it a little."

I nod. That's basically the same thing that the others I've asked have said, but I think at this point I can treat it as being confirmed. I stand, taking a small pouch of period-appropriate coins off my belt and laying it on the table in front of them.

"Thank you both for your time."

Haroun smiles as he picks up the pouch. "You are welcome, sir."

I turn away and head out of the café, pausing once I get back out onto the street. I've managed to get hold of a few navigation aids, but nothing that would let us survive in pure chaos. Dr. Balewa might be able to organise something.

I'm more hopeful about the link, though. The Tower of Fate is a powerful anchor point of order in the material universe. From the sound of it, it should be possible to travel from an order-focused dream directly to the Tower. Or… It would be possible for someone other than me, anyway. Would Shivering Jemmy be willing to grant us passage-? No. Would she allow us to survive the passage after experiencing pure chaos? Probably, but that doesn't make trying it a good idea.

Would my tattoos allow me to absorb Dream-stuff until I could manipulate it?

That sounds like an even-

"…geldedbastard!"

-worse-

The Demon Constantine lands chest-first on the street in front of me, to the moderate consternation of the passers by.

"Fuck."

"Do you need any help?"

He's lost his coat, and as he pushes himself up I see that his chest is bloody and his ribs… Broken and bent inwards, piercing where his lungs would be. There's also a… Variant of the Seal of Solomon imprinted on his forehead.

"Give me a moment."

He closes his eyes, wincing, and his chest gradually shifts back into its proper place.

"I'm sure that John would appreciate the-" I touch my forehead. "-tribute, but I didn't think that was healthy for demons."

"They got me." He tries to pat his coat, presumably looking for cigarettes, then realises that he's not wearing it. "The Caliph wants out."

"Oh. That's easy."

"Right, because Dream owes you a favour and no one in modern Cairo would mind having this dropped on them."

"No, because I spoke to a version of myself from an alternate timeline where this city was the Middle East's main source of super powers." I walk closer and tap him on the forehead. "Can I speak to the management, please?"

Tyrantviewer · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"No, because I spoke to a version of myself from an alternate timeline where this city was the Middle East's main source of super powers." I walk closer and tap him on the forehead. "Can I speak to the management, please?"

I love moments in stories when we get sentences like this and I know EXACTLY what is going on and being talked about.

I am sure the Caliph will be overjoyed to hear that what he want's is possible, from someone who knows more about HOW it would be possible than basically anyone else at this point.

Vaermina · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"No, because I spoke to a version of myself from an alternate timeline where this city was the Middle East's main source of super powers." I walk closer and tap him on the forehead. "Can I speak to the management, please?"

Notice how he didn't mention that world was only a few steps away from Nazi Earth.

Bloodalchemy · Jun 30, 2022

Orange is all about desire. And even better, Paul focuses on the motivation and ability to act on that desire.

Darko · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Can I speak to the management, please?"

This is giving me Karen vibes.

Ngamer11 · Jun 30, 2022

Vaermina said:
Notice how he didn't mention that world was only a few steps away from Nazi Earth.

Pretty sure Mandated Earth is, although somewhat brutal, far better than Earth 10.

yingyang590 · Jun 30, 2022

Which one was this again?

Ngamer11 · Jun 30, 2022

yingyang590 said:
Which one was this again?

If you are asking which parallel version of Paul knew their version of the Caliph, then it was the version who became Time Trapper.

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
8th November 2012
18:11 GMT +3

"…fury of a storm is simply not possible!"

I nod as Haroun the dream chaser gesticulates to emphasise his point.

Back to OL, again? Ah well, the alternate viewpoints were nice, but this is ultimately his story. And I see he's employing his true super-power: Call an Expert! I'm guessing we skipped the longer part of the 'Tell me what you want, and I shall tell you why it cannot be' part of the discussion...

"'Not possible' as in 'no one has ever done it and it would be immensely difficult' or 'categorically impossible'."

He throws up his hands. "To Allah, all things are possible, but to exist in a storm is to try and walk on ground that will bear no weight with legs that will bear no weight. Our existence here needs us-." He looks away as someone walks into the not-a-bar that totally never sells wine and certainly never sells it to good Muslims. "Ahmad, Ahmad, back me up!"

And I see the expert is having as hard a time getting OL to accept that 'it cannot be' as most people do...

Ahmad looks over, clearly puzzled, but he shrugs and ambles over to join us. "Why do you need backup?"

"This pagan wants to go through a dream storm."

I mean, it's not like he was in a rush, after all.

"Oh. Why?"

"To get to the other side."

Can the comedy, OL, they're obviously very serious about this.

"You wouldn't just die. The things that make up your body would cease to be." Ahmad looks concerned as he shakes his head. "Don't do it."

"Okay. Is it possible to go around a storm?"

If you can go through, go around, eh? The trick will be finding the shortest course around whatever storm you're talking about.

Ahmad sits down next to his… Friend? And looks at Haroun to try and get some idea what's going on. Haroun is still clearly frustrated.

"Look, this city seems pretty normal because the Caliph and Dream brought it here as-is. In normal dreams, you're constantly interacting with worlds that have their own rules. They usually resemble the real world in some ways because people mostly dream what they know, and those commonalities make it possible to travel from one to the other."

Setting aside the usual changes of reality involved by dream logic, I suppose? And heaven help you if you blunder into the dreams of someone with a less steady grasp on reality?

"Yes, I understand-."

"Commonalities. The rule-breaks are commonalities too, and a lot of the time they're the bit that lingers longest. And when the dreamer awakens and they're not limiting things, the rule-breaks can all-"

Ah. Like rag-ends of a torn tapestry...

He claps his hands.

"-smoosh together, and you get a storm."

...with all the clashes and inconsistencies that metaphor would imply.

"Primordial chaos."

"Ah… I imagine it's similar. If you want to know if they're the same you should check with an Imam."

Wonder how they've dealt with the change of circumstances these hundreds of years?

"Hm. There are beings who can exist in raw chaos."

"Yeah. Evil spirits. And definitely not men."

...Like, say, Lords of Chaos?

"Why not just wait until it falls apart on its own?"

"I don't think this one will."

Ah. So that means the Tower is protected within the Dream by one of these storms, then?

Both sets of eyes widen.

"You want to get through-?" / "You can to go through-!"

And evidently it's a well-known location. Presumably quite the navigational hazard for these guys.

"Assume that I do."

Haroun sits back a little, clearly uncomfortable. "Well… Don't. The Lord of Dreams could probably let you through, for Allah has granted him domain over this place and all within it. I cannot imagine anything else that could."

And as we've already seen, he will not do that for them.

"What would you do if you found yourself caught in a lesser storm."

"Leave as quickly as I could. If I could not leave… Seek shelter and pray as hard as I could."

And if that doesn't work... Endeavour to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye?

"How do you leave? If they're as chaotic as you say-."

"When you flee from a normal storm, you're going to get wet, but if you watch the path you can avoid being hit by a blow-over tree, or by lightning. Unless a dream has broken down entirely there are still conceptual links, they're just… Disrupted. So if you keep your wits about you and run, it's possible, but…"

Or if you're powerful enough to bull through without caring about things like collateral damage...

"But it would be chancy, and you wouldn't want to do it if you could possibly avoid it."

They're both nodding.

Probably feeling a sense of relief as 'finally, the heathen sees sense!'

"Is there a way to calm a storm, even if it's only over a small area?"

Ahmad nods. "Wizards who have studied the Dream can do that, but they only do it when the city is threatened directly, and then they can only calm it a little."

And presumably do so at the command of the Caliph.

I nod. That's basically the same thing that the others I've asked have said, but I think at this point I can treat it has being confirmed. I stand, taking a small pouch of period-appropriate coins off my belt and laying in on the table in front of them.

"Thank you both for your time."

Well, at least he's paying well for advice.

Haroun smiles as he picks up the pouch. "You are welcome, sir."

I turn away and head out of the café, pausing once I get back out onto the street. I've managed to get hold of a few navigation aids, but nothing that would let us survive in pure chaos. Dr. Balewa might be able to organise something.

...So you spent the last couple of hours buying... Souvenirs. Sheesh.

I'm more hopeful about the link, though. The Tower of Fate is a powerful anchor point of order in the material universe. From the sound of it, it should be possible to travel from an order-focused dream directly to the Tower. Or… It would be possible for someone other than me, anyway. Would Shivering Jemmy be willing to grant us passage-? No. Would she allow us to survive the passage after experiencing pure chaos? Probably, but that doesn't make trying it a good idea.

Would my tattoos allow me to absorb Dream-stuff until I could manipulate it?

Pretty sure Morpheus would show up, slap you and say 'stop being an idiot' if you tried that...

That sounds like an even-

"…geldedbastard!"

Ah, there's the Demon. I guess the Caliph was displeased with his response.

-worse-

The Demon Constantine lands chest-first on the street in front of me, to the moderate consternation of the passers by.

Ah, there's that Jackson Pollack. Albeit a rather monochrome one.

"Fuck."

"Do you need any help?"

...And I'm picturing him just laying there, face-down on the pavement, cursing OL unto the fifth generation.

He's lost his coat, and as he pushes himself up I see that his chest is bloody and his ribs… Broken and bent inwards, piercing where his lungs would be. There's also a… Variant of the Seal of Solomon imprinted on his forehead.

"Give me a moment."

Displeased, indeed. I bet the seal is a right pain.

He closes his eyes, wincing, and his chest gradually shifts back into its proper place.

"I'm sure that John would appreciate the-" I touch my forehead. "-tribute, but I didn't think that was healthy for demons."

Heh, there's an amusing idea: A Demonic body-modification scene involving holy artefacts. For the ultimate in masochistic sensations!

"They got me." He tries to pat his coat, presumably looking for cigarettes, then realises that he's not wearing it. "The Caliph wants out."

"Oh. That's easy."

...I mean, that does kind of depend where he wants the city to appear.

"Right, because Dream owes you a favour and no one in modern Cairo would mind having this dropped on them."

"No, because I spoke to a version of myself from an alternate timeline where this city was the Middle East's main source of super powers." I walk closer and tap him on the forehead. "Can I speak to the management, please?"

Now that's a callback.

Well, then. Looks like OL is about to get shit done again. The question is, will this help them get to the Tower, or get in their way? If nothing else, the conversation between OL and the Caliph is going to be entertaining. And meanwhile, the others are still in the breeze. We still don''t know what Doctor Balewa's been getting up to...

yingyang590 said:
Which one was this again?

My best efforts found this chapter: Mandated, part 12. (QQ Story-only version linked.)

iamnuff · Jun 30, 2022

I don't remember the alternate version he's talking about, but as soon as Demon John got picked up, my first thought was that he should suggest that the Caliph go get 'the orange one' instead, because he loves doing stuff like this.
Themyscira, Atlantis, Mars.

He loves getting alien cultures in contact with each-other for trade purposes.

Tzeentch · Jun 30, 2022

Given that the original Caliph that bargained with Morpheus died ages ago, I wonder if this is the Dream Counterpart of one of the Harun al Raschid's descendants that wants out, who would have ruled if Arabian Nights Baghdad still existed in the Real World.

Old Knife · Jun 30, 2022

Oh wow. This was easier than I thought- Sultan, probably.

NightmareWarden · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Demon Constantine

The following might affect your enjoyment of the rest of the arc, maybe. Might spoil something.

Six and a half years have passed since this post. Now I acknowledge the Constantine who tried to balance Chaos and Order in this fic isn't the same as his Hellblazer counterpart. Paul butterflies a bunch of stuff. But it looks like, in some fashion, that post has come to pass with one Order John and one Chaos John. Which leaves me wondering.

Why does the "good" John, wearing the Helmet, seem so well-adjusted? Perhaps… he is using some of the order-based neurons used by Nabu when he wears the helmet, to make up for his "holes?" And he would quickly degrade if he was forced to operate without the helmet? Such a possibility might explain why John was willing to split himself a second time, considering how much the Demon Constantine split damaged him.

Mr Zoat · Jun 30, 2022

Darko said:
This is giving me Karen vibes.

It's not a Karen moment. He said 'please'.

thebishop8 · Jun 30, 2022

I recently remembered that John Constantine isn't the only one imprisoned in the Tower of Fate. Felix Faust and William Zard have been in there ever since the Roanoke incident, and Dark Druid and Anton Arcane have been there ever since Swamp Thing covered Gotham in plants. I'm wondering if we'll see them during the prison break. Hopefully things don't go so badly wrong that they escape.

WereDragon · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"No, because I spoke to a version of myself from an alternate timeline where this city was the Middle East's main source of super powers."

That is absolutely horrible logic for so many reasons.
This is not the same city, having spent centuries or millennia outside of reality. These are not the same people, again from having spent a lifetime in a mailable dream environment. More critically this is not the same world. You cannot just drop a culturally foreign city into an area and expect it to go well.
But I suppose it will only be people Paul doesn't personally know who suffer, so he doesn't care.

Darko · Jun 30, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
It's not a Karen moment. He said 'please'.

Fair enough, but it still feels like that type of moment.

Maybe he can harness that to get some power.

Windona · Jun 30, 2022

WereDragon said:
That is absolutely horrible logic for so many reasons.
This is not the same city, having spent centuries or millennia outside of reality. These are not the same people, again from having spent a lifetime in a mailable dream environment. More critically this is not the same world. You cannot just drop a culturally foreign city into an area and expect it to go well.
But I suppose it will only be people Paul doesn't personally know who suffer, so he doesn't care.

No, but in Mandated the city was still in the Dream but allowed to interact with the real world in a way that benefited them both. And Paul is usually pretty good at managing stuff like this.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Well worn.

Recovering pendant.

Glomerulus

Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Connoisseur.

Glomerulus

Your first time is always over so quickly, isn't it?

The Critical Fumbler

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

lord of all I survey

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Experienced.

Getting out there.

Experienced.

Veteran Lurker

Connoisseur.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Not too sore, are you?

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

Umm, ackchyually...

Bookwyrm

Connoisseur.

Beetle Queen of Crackshipping

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