With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

LollipoPReapeR · Jul 16, 2022

So currently still catching up. I'm at the bit where the fake!Lawyer Nylor Truggs tries to steal OL's ring.

My main question so far is, why hasn't main timeline MC tried to get any non-lantern enhancements yet? I know renegade MC is a bit of an asshole and also a bit immoral, but main timeline MC was always trying to get Artemis and Robin to drink the super soldier serum, so why hasn't he drunk it himself? I just don't see any reason not to… Especially when he seems to run out of charge or lose his lantern powers every few episodes.

Also reading through story only thread since lack of threadmarks in original threads was quite annoying. So I might have missed the comments discussing this kind of thing.

Duke Long · Jul 17, 2022

LollipoPReapeR said:
So currently still catching up. I'm at the bit where the fake!Lawyer Nylor Truggs tries to steal OL's ring.

My main question so far is, why hasn't main timeline MC tried to get any non-lantern enhancements yet? I know renegade MC is a bit of an asshole and also a bit immoral, but main timeline MC was always trying to get Artemis and Robin to drink the super soldier serum, so why hasn't he drunk it himself? I just don't see any reason not to… Especially when he seems to run out of charge or lose his lantern powers every few episodes.

Also reading through story only thread since lack of threadmarks in original threads was quite annoying. So I might have missed the comments discussing this kind of thing.

I think it must be mentioned only briefly or something, because I missed it too, but apparently it was explained at some point that Paul's non-standard (and initially non-existent) soul prevents him from benefitting from most enhancement methods. The ones he could benefit from, like venom buster, had side effects he wasn't willing to accept.

LollipoPReapeR · Jul 17, 2022

Duke Long said:
I think it must be mentioned only briefly or something, because I missed it too, but apparently it was explained at some point that Paul's non-standard (and initially non-existent) soul prevents him from benefitting from most enhancement methods. The ones he could benefit from, like venom buster, had side effects he wasn't willing to accept.

Huh? Then now did renegade!Paul do it then? Also how does the soul affect his physical body? I thought it was only problematic with magic stuff?

Mr Zoat · Jul 17, 2022

LollipoPReapeR said:
Huh? Then now did renegade!Paul do it then?

Mostly, by not caring about the side effects.

Also how does the soul affect his physical body? I thought it was only problematic with magic stuff?

They work using magical mechanisms. He doesn't have the right plugs.

LollipoPReapeR · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Mostly, by not caring about the side effects.

They work using magical mechanisms. He doesn't have the right plugs.

So at the point in story I'm in, it's been confirmed he's now got a proto/pseudo soul and he is no longer vulnerable to magic. Is this still not good enough for the Danner formula?

Ardy · Jul 17, 2022

LollipoPReapeR said:
So at the point in story I'm in, it's been confirmed he's now got a proto/pseudo soul and he is no longer vulnerable to magic. Is this still not good enough for the Danner formula?

he has a soul made of orange snake, that's not typical enough for the weird-ass magic no one understands that he wants to try it

Windona · Jul 17, 2022

Doyalistically, Paul needs some weaknesses to make there be tension possible in the plot.

Watson explanation is that funky snake soul and methods of enhancement with minimal side effects don't gel well. Souls gotta be 100% organic to the universe for the best enhancement methods

Cherico · Jul 17, 2022

Windona said:
Doyalistically, Paul needs some weaknesses to make there be tension possible in the plot.

Watson explanation is that funky snake soul and methods of enhancement with minimal side effects don't gel well. Souls gotta be 100% organic to the universe for the best enhancement methods

The british empire in this series could cut a deal with the US.

As long as they let go of canada, this united states will be pretty much entirely focused on its internal issues and the western hemisphere. Canada is a sticking point but not much of one because once again lost 2 wars in 20 years and they see what their allies got up to so making peace is possible and actually pretty doable because after you accept canada is gone the us and british spheres of influence don't overlap that much.

Germany is more of a sticking poiint but will be focused on the continent.

The empires biggest issue will be keeping itself together dispite its own internal issues.

ForeverShogo · Jul 17, 2022

It's unpleasant but doable for the US to properly integrate Canada and the Confederacy, but a number of problems they face (at least in Canada) are due to frankly baffling decisions that Turtledove forced for one reason or another. But really, as amusing as his stories can sometimes be, TL191 is one of the ones with a lot of his really crappy "What if I just made stuff that happened in one country happen in another instead?"

The dates when certain events happen, the Confederates having a Stuka knockoff, other nonsense . . .

Mr Zoat · Jul 17, 2022

8th November 2012
11:37 GMT -5

Dr. Balewa hesitates as we approach the circle of flattened ground around the closest barn. "There is life within."

I glance at The Demon, who shrugs. I could probably read the residual desires around here, but I'm a little worried that having the Ophidian extrude part of herself here would set off detection systems even with my tattoos. He -on the other hand- should be able to feel the patterns of their lives without risk.

He sees me looking at him. "What, you want me to knock on the door?"

"Do you think that you can convincingly act like John Quinn to people who actually know him?"

He exhales slowly, and then he straightens up out of his customary slouch. His stubble vanishes, his eyes lose a little of their unnatural glow, his hair shortens-.

Seeing him change like this, it's actually a lot more apparent exactly how much he looks like John Quinn. Yes, I thought Quinn looked like an idealised version of John Constantine the first time I saw him but now I'm seeing that it's literally true.

"How do I look?"

Sanderson smiles, nodding. "You look much better like that. I know it might seen vain, but I think putting a little effort into your appearance helps you get into a positive frame of mind. If you keep looking like a disreputable slob, you're going to start thinking of yourself like that."

The Demon exhales, then shifts his eyes in my direction.

"Passable. The voice is good, too. Can you fake the Order aura?"

"I can make them think I am."

Alan frowns, concerned. "Are you sure about that? If Quinn's made some sort of deal with-."

"Ancient magical powers don't do farm work." Straight-backed, he walks towards the man-sized door in the dormitory barn wall. "He's probably bound a bunch of dryads with chains of order."

I hope that's not the case.

The Demon glances back at me as he reaches the door, flashing me a grin that's perfectly in-character for him and not Quinn. What, is he trying to push me into killing John Quinn? Even if he is using dryads as slave labour, that wouldn't push me over the edge. Especially not with Alan here. I'd be angry, yes, but I'm not defined by my anger.

Or is he doing the Constantine thing of putting everyone he can a little off-balance in case he decides to take advantage of their discomportment later? Yes, that sounds more likely.

The Demon raises his right fist and knocks on the door twice. Hopefully, he's using magic to know that's how John Quinn would announce himself. As for the rest of us? Dr. Balewa and Alan are Justice League members. There's no obvious reason why a third party would be surprised at them being inside the Tower of Fate. If that's even where we are. Someone who was told 'allow no one in here' would… Probably accept The Demon's word for it that he was changing his mind. Unless they were bound not to. But we're never going to find out anything-

The doors slowly opens.

-if we're afraid to look.

"Master?"

The creature on the other side… Looks like a gnome. A little bigger and the muscles on the torso are a little more pronounced, but it's very clearly from a related species. Worse quality clothes, though, and there are significant amounts of… Hair? Fur? Growing from his forearms and chin. Records of fae creatures aren't detailed, for obvious reasons, but I'm guessing… Brownie?

I can't see any bindings, but brownies are supposed to like helping around the house anyway. Perhaps he just made a direct agreement with this group. Stories in folklore aren't a reliable guide anyway, and generally describe their interactions with people who aren't powerful wizards.

"Have you had any problems?"

"No, Master. All of the plants are growing nicely. The crystal harvest is on course."

The maybe-brownie doesn't even look at the rest of us. His attention is wholly on The Demon. His expression… Not fearful or hopeful, just sort of blank. The gnomes are much more inclined to demonstrate emotion through facial expression.

"Is the food alright?"

"It is filling, but bland and tasteless."

Still no real expression. The situation suggests that he would be afraid, but his body language and facial expression suggests that he doesn't feel strongly about the situation. This isn't how people do things. I edge closer to Dr. Balewa.

"Doctor, is the local under any external influence?"

"Perhaps I should get you something better, seeing as how you're doing such a good job."

"There is no ongoing spell at work on him. But, his behaviour is not natural."

"As Master wills it."

"Thet is now how brownies usually respond. Mister Quinn!" Dr. Balewa walks towards the doorway. The Demon glances at him, apparently indifferent. The brownie doesn't respond. "Might I check on the health of your servants?"

The Demon nods. "I think that would be prudent. You, step outside."

The brownie walks out without any particular excitement, and Dr. Balewa raises his hands. I'm going to assume that he's seen brownies before, so he knows what he's-.

There's a sharp intake of breath from Dr. Balewa, white mist rising from his hands.

The brownie appears to come slightly out of whatever fugue it was in, focusing on Dr. Balewa. "Oh dear, sir. You shouldn't have done that."

"You poor man."

"Oh no, sir. His actions were entirely justified."

I.. felt that.

Sanderson looks confused as Alan and I take a step back. "What? What did the little guy say?"

Behind the little guy, I see the other brownies gradually appear, forming a loose blank-faced mob.

The Demon looks them over without overtly breaking character.

"Stop. All of you, return to your bunks."

"I'm sorry, Master." His eyes are glowing and that's an Anti-Life infection. "But Anti-Life justifies our actions."

Vines leap from their trellises, flying towards us in defiance of botany! A raised hand from Dr. Balewa causes those coming at him to collapse, but Sanderson is caught flat-footed and is rapidly enveloped!

"Turn to s-"

I form point defence laser constructs while Alan creates a garden mower, the vines coming at us getting burned or shredded.

"-and!"

The vines lift him away, crystals glowing with golden light!

"I-I-!"

Alan takes off after him, construct saw blades trying to slice through vines that are now resisting.

"Sandman! Change!"

The crystals blindingly and then darken, light vanishing from the vine as-

"Get these fuckers off me!"

Ngamer11 · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
The Demon glances back at me as he reaches the door, flashing me a grin that's perfectly in-character for him and not Quinn. What, is he trying to push me into killing john Quinn? Even if he is using dryads as slave labour, that wouldn't push me over the edge. Especially not with Alan here. I'd be angry, yes, but I'm not defined by my anger.

That should say 'John'.

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh no, sir. His actions were entirely justified."

I.. felt that.

Sanderson looks confused as Alan and I take a step back. "What? What did the little guy say?"

Uh oh. Is that what I think it is?

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm sorry, Master." His eyes are glowing and that's an Anti-Life infection. "But Anti-Life justifies our actions."

Yup. The Anti-Life Equation. I can't say I was expecting this. What, is John Quinn going full Order by trying to find a way to use the Anti-Life to erase all things chaotic?

Ganurath · Jul 17, 2022

I can't imagine anyone who'd normally make Justified going out of their way to target brownies in particular. I suspect that John Quinn was doing research to develop countermeasures. It'd explain the isolated system.

Darko · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
smiles, nodding. "You look much better like that. I know it might seen vain, but I think putting a little effort into your appearance helps you get into a positive frame of mind. If you keep looking like a disreputable slob, you're going to start thinking of yourself like that

True.

Mr Zoat said:
"Ancient magical powers don't do farm work

Unless they like doing it or it's part of their nature.

Mr Zoat said:
Thet is now how brownies

"not how"

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm sorry, Master." His eyes are glowing and that's an Anti-Life infection. "But Anti-Life justifies our actions

Oh, shit, this is unexpected.

So either Quinn is into some dark shit or he's trying to somehow help them by removing the AL Equation and the farm work is a way to keep them busy.

jaelin910 · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Oh no, sir. His actions were entirely justified."

Ah. Well, that tracks; John finds himself as the big fish in a small pond so he immediately finds a new pond. How else would life be able to keep kicking his teeth in?

DAT_NOOB · Jul 17, 2022

What are Brownies?

Chojin Patriarch · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
8th November 2012
11:37 GMT -5

Dr. Balewa hesitates as we approach the circle of flattened ground around the closest barn. "There is life within."

I glance at The Demon, who shrugs. I could probably read the residual desires around here, but I'm a little worried that having the Ophidian extrude part of herself here would set off detection systems even with my tattoos. He -on the other hand- should be able to feel the patterns of their lives without risk.

The question is what he'll do with that knowledge. John Constantine Classic would at least try not to disrupt things too much if he didn't have to (except when he usually figured he did have to.) The Demon? Well, being an asshole is woven into his very nature.

He sees me looking at him. "What, you want me to knock on the door?"

"Do you think that you can convincingly act like John Quinn to people who actually know him?"

I mean, How much of a stuck-up stick-in-the-mud Lawful Good git did John Quinn act like?

Because I can't help but imagine the Demon acting like that. Didn't seem like he had the highest opinion of Quinn.

He exhales slowly, and then he straightens up out of his customary slouch. His stubble vanishes, his eyes lose a little of their unnatural glow, his hair shortens-.

Seeing him change like this, it's actually a lot more apparent exactly how much he looks like John Quinn. Yes, I thought Quinn looked like an idealised version of John Constantine the first time I saw him but now I'm seeing that it's literally true.

Or maybe the Golden Boy, who was also clean-shaven, well-kept and heroic-looking.

"How do I look?"

Sanderson smiles, nodding. "You look much better like that. I know it might seen vain, but I think putting a little effort into your appearance helps you get into a positive frame of mind. If you keep looking like a disreputable slob, you're going to start thinking of yourself like that."

Ah, Sandy. Don't let the modern world dampen that earnestness.

The Demon exhales, then shifts his eyes in my direction.

"Passable. The voice is good, too. Can you fake the Order aura?"

Fake it until you make it. Though with any luck these folk don't see much of him beyond a glowing figure passing overhead on his way to more important things...

"I can make them think I am."

Alan frowns, concerned. "Are you sure about that? If Quinn's made some sort of deal with-."

Anything that could beat a Constantine's trickery is probably something that would have noticed you turning up right away...

"Ancient magical powers don't do farm work." Straight-backed, he walks towards the man-sized door in the dormitory barn wall. "He's probably bound a bunch of dryads with chains of order."

I hope that's not the case.

Add it to the list of presumed things to give him a good kicking in the soft spots for.

The Demon glances back at me as he reaches the door, flashing me a grin that's perfectly in-character for him and not Quinn. What, is he trying to push me into killing john Quinn? Even if he is using dryads as slave labour, that wouldn't push me over the edge. Especially not with Alan here. I'd be angry, yes, but I'm not defined by my anger.

Or is he doing the Constantine thing of putting everyone he can a little off-balance in case he decides to take advantage of their discomportment later? Yes, that sounds more likely.

No, OL, you're defined by your Wants. That's what Enlightenment is, to some degree. And wanting to give Quinn that good kicking if it turns out he deserves it? Entirely understandable. And if the Demon tries anything, he can share it.

The Demon raises his right fist and knocks on the door twice. Hopefully, he's using magic to know that's how John Quinn would announce himself. As for the rest of us? Dr. Balewa and Alan are Justice League members. There's no obvious reason why a third party would be surprised at them being inside the Tower of Fate. If that's even where we are. Someone who was told 'allow no one in here' would… Probably accept The Demon's word for it that he was changing his mind. Unless they were bound not to. But we're never going to find out anything-

OL, stop second-guessing things. The Demon's just getting under your skin, isn't he? Guy could start a punch-up in a pacifist's convention.

The doors slowly opens.

-if we're afraid to look.

"Master?"

Well, that's a bad sign, right out of the gates. Could be innocent, sure, but...

The creature on the other side… Looks like a gnome. A little bigger and the muscles on the torso are a little more pronounced, but it's very clearly from a related species. Worse quality clothes, though, and there are significant amounts of… Hair? Fur? Growing from his forearms and chin. Records of fae creatures aren't detailed, for obvious reasons, but I'm guessing… Brownie?

I can't see any bindings, but brownies are supposed to like helping around the house anyway. Perhaps he just made a direct agreement with this group. Stories in folklore aren't a reliable guide anyway, and generally describe their interactions with people who aren't powerful wizards.

Maybe even a kobold? After all, the D&D version being lizard people is not accurate to the old stories. Then again, the 'gnomes' he met while dealing with Drakul Karfang were more kobold-like... Folklore is funny like that...

"Have you had any problems?"

"No, Master. All of the plants are growing nicely. The crystal harvest is on course."

Well, that confirms this was set up by Quinn. Why? I doubt these guys know.

The maybe-brownie doesn't even look at the rest of us. His attention is wholly on The Demon. His expression… Not fearful or hopeful, just sort of blank. The gnomes are much more inclined to demonstrate emotion through facial expression.

"Is the food alright?"

I suppose Quinn might be concerned with that. Probably the Demon adding a little familiarity to smooth over the unusualness of this surprise visit.

"It is filling, but bland and tasteless."

Still no real expression. The situation suggests that he would be afraid, but his body language and facial expression suggests that he doesn't feel strongly about the situation. This isn't how people do things. I edge closer to Dr. Balewa.

Yeah, that's... Not good. Though there are a few ways it could be managed, magically, or...

"Doctor, is the local under any external influence?"

"Perhaps I should get you something better, seeing as how you're doing such a good job."

And Doctor Balewa can detect most forms of control, I expect, magical or not.

"There is no ongoing spell at work on him. But, his behaviour is not natural."

"As Master wills it."

Not even a hint of excitement? Either this little guy is too simple to feel desire, or his emotions are being stilled somehow...

"Thet is now how brownies usually respond. Mister Quinn!" Dr. Balewa walks towards the doorway. The Demon glances at him, apparently indifferent. The brownie doesn't respond. "Might I check on the health of your servants?"

The Demon nods. "I think that would be prudent. You, step outside."

Points for acting in character, at least, for the Demon. Let's hope the little guy not able to feel suspicious...

The brownie walks out without any particular excitement, and Dr. Balewa raises his hands. I'm going to assume that he's seen brownies before, so he knows what he's-.

There's a sharp intake of breath from Dr. Balewa, white mist rising from his hands.

...Well, things are about to go ploin-shaped, I just know it.

The brownie appears to come slightly out of whatever fugue it was in, focusing on Dr. Balewa. "Oh dear, sir. You shouldn't have done that."

"You poor man."

Oh, wow, that's got to be the strongest emotion we've ever seen in the Doctor for a while.

"Oh no, sir. His actions were entirely justified."

I.. felt that.

...Crap. Either it's Black Light poisoning... Or something more Tyrannical is involved.

Sanderson looks confused as Alan and I take a step back. "What? What did the little guy say?"

Behind the little guy, I see the other brownies gradually appear, forming a loose blank-faced mob.

Aw, crap. They poked the wasp's nest.

The Demon looks them over without overtly breaking character.

"Stop. All of you, return to your bunks."

Probably a bit past the point that'll work, Demon.

"I'm sorry, Master." His eyes are glowing and that's an Anti-Life infection. "But Anti-Life justifies our actions."

Vines leap from their trellises, flying towards us in defiance of botany! A raised hand from Dr. Balewa causes those coming at him to collapse, but Sanderson is caught flat-footed and is rapidly enveloped!

Oh, hell! Quinn's working with Apokalips, isn't he?

"Turn to s-"

I form point defence laser constructs while Alan creates a garden mower, the vines coming at us getting burned or shredded.

"-and!"

...I thought he already had? Or did he revert when things seemed fine? Bad instinct, Sandy. You'll have to work on that when you get out of this.

The vines lift him away, crystals glowing with golden light!

"I-I-!"

I think he's about to get a taste of just how immortal he really is, I think...

Alan takes off after him, construct saw blades trying to slice through vines that are now resisting.

"Sandman! Change!"

Hopefully he'll listen this time, with Alan's voice of command kicking him in the hind-brain.

The crystals blindingly and then darken, light vanishing from the vine as-

"Get these fuckers off me!"

Okay, when the polite former sidekick starts swearing, things are definitely going badly. Unless the Demon is getting dogpiled.

Well, things escalated quickly.

Talk about 0 to 'oh shit!' in six seconds. Sandy about to get soaked in Anti-Life, the Demon getting swarmed by hairy little men (And not in a fun way!) and everyone else nearly caught flat-footed. If they have any luck, they can swing the momentum back their way and clean up, but this heist got off to such a great start...

Ngamer11 · Jul 17, 2022

DAT_NOOB said:
What are Brownies?

Mythological creatures that took care of human homes in exchange for food. Here's the wikipedia link for more info.

Signaller · Jul 17, 2022

Of course, we never did find out what Nabu did with Dark Druid et al.

Darko · Jul 17, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Oh, hell! Quinn's working with Apokalips, isn't he?

I'm guessing John screwed up the process when he made Quinn, because he's John Constantine, and Quinn decided to go the tyranny route when it comes to order.

Or maybe Darkseid noticed his attempt at making Quinn and chose to corrupt the process.

Or Quinn is just keeping these guys around to help them get rid of the AL Equation.

Sceptic · Jul 17, 2022

DAT_NOOB said:
What are Brownies?

House elves from Harry Potter were loosely based on them.

WereDragon · Jul 17, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"I'm sorry, Master." His eyes are glowing and that's an Anti-Life infection. "But Anti-Life justifies our actions."

Good news: John Quinn did not 'fall to order' or whatever Paul intended to accuse him of.
Bad news: One or more of the Constantines encountered a power that really, really really should be left alone… and poked it instead. With predictable results.

CTrees · Jul 17, 2022

DAT_NOOB said:
What are Brownies?

A member of the junior branch of the Girl Scouts.

Mr Zoat · Jul 17, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
That should say 'John'.

Thank you, corrected.

Bud-E · Jul 17, 2022

Do you think Quinn was experimenting with Anti-Life to try and control the remaining Lords of Order?

Artemisnemo · Jul 17, 2022

Oh hey, did we finally find Dark Druid. Man that was years ago. Like I've moved 4 times and changed jobs twice.

Ngamer11 · Jul 17, 2022

Artemisnemo said:
Oh hey, did we finally find Dark Druid. Man that was years ago. Like I've moved 4 times and changed jobs twice.

He's been in the Tower of Fate since he was taken down alongside Anton Arcane.

iamnuff · Jul 17, 2022

So John found some anti-lifed brownies and decided to try to fix them, and the league of distrust have fucked that all up and ruined his order-farm.

I get the feeling that OL and his squad might be the baddies here.

Darko · Jul 17, 2022

iamnuff said:
So John found some anti-lifed brownies and decided to try to fix them, and the league of distrust have fucked that all up and ruined his order-farm.

I get the feeling that OL and his squad might be the baddies here.

It's either a misunderstanding or Quinn is planning to become something like Darkseid, but instead of fire pits, his slaves will be surrounded by farms.

iamnuff · Jul 17, 2022

Darko said:
It's either a misunderstanding or Quinn is planning to become something like Darkseid, but instead of fire pits, his slaves will be surrounded by farms.

I doubt it.
If Quinn had anti-lifed these guys, he wouldn't be supressing that anti-life justification with his own magic.

It was clearly some kind of treatment, attempting to cure them. Or at least render them a non-threat.
Which doctor mist fucked up because he bumbled in here with no idea what was going on and started slinging his magic around.

Darko · Jul 17, 2022

iamnuff said:
I doubt it.
If Quinn had anti-lifed these guys, he wouldn't be supressing that anti-life justification with his own magic.

It was clearly some kind of treatment, attempting to cure them. Or at least render them a non-threat.
Which doctor mist fucked up because he bumbled in here with no idea what was going on and started slinging his magic around.

The League is aware that New Genesis can deal with victims of Anti-Life, so Quinn could have just sent them to New Genesis.

Granted, Quinn may not keep up with all of the League business.

He may have also been suppressing the full effects of Anti-Life since while he viewed it as useful, the full effects would have been too extreme for what he wants.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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