With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Ngamer11]

Azula became a spirit?

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No, but that's the closest equivalent that the world of Avatar has to her becoming a member of the OLC.

 

[hkim]

I don't think this is the place to argue about this so let me just say that liking a poor sequel is fine, liking a bad game is fine, but you don't need to justify it or pretend like it's a good sequel or game.
In a lot of people's opinion F3 is a good game from their childhood, in a lot of old fallout fans opinions it's a poor sequel and in some it's just a bad sequel and bad game.

There is some concrete, objective measures of what makes a good or bad sequel and/or game and by those in my humble opinion Fallout 3 fails, the map is the worst that Bethesda ever made, there are some mechanics that are broken or outright useless, the game is ugly even for the time and the studio that made it, and the "Fallout" in 3 feels like a parody at worst and a Fallout theme park at best.

That doesn't mean people are wrong to love the game, I sure loved some massive pieces of shit that I played as a kid I just don't pretend they were diamonds.

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obligatory "lol, I don't want to argue but it is shit fight me" callout post, but whatever, you're also right about this not being the place

Mostly I just want to wonder about what compels a man to make an eight hour video rebutting some other nerd's two hour video about why their nuclear vidjagames suck, actually. This is a level beyond "touch grass" and may present a compelling moral case for the necessity of wedgies.

 

[Assblaster5000]

Mostly I just want to wonder about what compels a man to make an eight hour video rebutting some other nerd's two hour video about why their nuclear vidjagames suck, actually.

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The same thing as what causes people to make documentaries on things they like or why Samuel Jackson had an anime made I'd imagine, unrelenting passion for a given subject that they unashamedly love.

This is a level beyond "touch grass" and may present a compelling moral case for the necessity of wedgies.

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Bruh, you're reading a story about a guy who can solve all the problems because he really, really wants to. One that's been going for, like, five plus years now, you have zero room to tell people to "touch grass."

 

[Prince Charon]

This is a level beyond "touch grass" and may present a compelling moral case for the necessity of wedgies.

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Saying 'touch grass' in an online discussion is just a way of admitting to have lost the argument while pretending not to have with a feeble insult.

 

[hkim]

Saying 'touch grass' in an online discussion is just a way of admitting to have lost the argument while pretending not to have with a feeble insult.

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Not the poster, whatever lunatic made an 8 hour video on the subject of "nuh uh" is the one who ought touch grass and/or be wedgied for the greater good. megamiaouh's opinions are entirely heterodox

 

[Mr Zoat]

8th November 2012
12:17 GMT -5

Alan frowns as we pass what appears to be the same door for the twelfth time.

"Are you sure we're going somewhere?"

Dr. Balewa smiles faintly as he nods. I glace to my left, watching the two brownies who are bringing up the rear as we ascend the Penrose stairs. We entered via a door in-. Well, about a third of the way back on the rotation, and we're been going around and around since. After the third I made a mark on the staircase just in case, and, yes, we've gone past it each time.

"Yes. Orange Lantern marked the floor, but not the doors. They change each time we rotate."

I knew that areas like this existed in the Tower of Fate, with a featureless void all around and staircases with variable gravitational pull all throughout it. I've just managed to avoid spending time here until now. In the distance I can see other staircases in the void, but they don't appear to connect to ours and I'm not sure what would happen if I tried flying to them.

Sanderson looks over the edge at the drop. "Ah, how exactly is any of this 'orderly'?"

"It is closer to being orderly in the absolute sense, rather than in the limited human sense."

"Ah…"

"The human mind is evolved to understand things thet it usually encounters in the world. But the world is not an orderly or rational place." He looks around at-. Yes, very droll. "Here is an order beyond anything thet you hev known. As orderly as can exist in and still interact with the material universe."

"If we cut the Plane of Order off from Earth completely, what happens?"

"Massive arcane instability. Indeed, it may be thet the magic systems of the Earth become incapable of stability without an element of Order." He stops and turns around so that he can look directly into my face. "Please, do not do it."

I acquiesce with a nod.

"Here." Urisk takes hold of a door handle and pulls it open. "Demon spoor. The one who came with you."

"Who else?"

"Order. Chaos-." He jerks his hand away, wincing. "The Empty One."

I frown. "Doctor Mist, wasn't Blackbriar Thorn the primary vector for the Anti-Life fragment? Isn't that why the brownies are free?"

"We know thet there are more fragments. There being another is.. concerning, but hardly beyond our expectations."

Alan nods. "It's in Quinn, right? It would.. have to be."

"I hev been assuming so, but… No. Without some idea of what happened, there is no reason to assume so. It may be thet we hev already freed him."

He makes a motion with his hand and Urisk steps away from the door. Alan and I reengage our defences, then nod. He pushes it open and then walks briskly inside.

I follow-.

Huh.

A… Machine? A mechanism… In parts, at least. I can see rotating cogs and platforms with runic inscriptions whose shapes I don't recognise. Glowing crystals are.. common, forming patterns or.. just laid along the edges of parts of the device. There's a.. large screw in a central location. Nothing seems to be directly attached to it, though two platforms it sticking through their central hole.

Magic technology far in advance of anything I've seen before. But… Some parts…

"Is that New God technology?"

"You would be best placed to-." Dr. Balewa winces as golden lightning dances around his fingers.

Alan look concerned. "Are you okay?"

"It was not an attack. This much power, focused… It is like touching an electrified fence. It has been some time since I hev encountered…"

He takes a few steps forward, gazing up at the device.

"Something like this."

"Is it safe for me to fly?"

"Do not touch the Ophidian, but, yes."

Ring, start mapping.

Compliance. Warning, mapping high concentration magic devices not reliable.

Do your best.

Compliance.

"Doctor, are these all order-aligned?"

"Yes." He's still looking around, hopefully starting to put things together. "Everything integrated into the structure is resonant with Order."

Alan comes up alongside me. "Something on your mind?"

"I always assumed that John would have an easier time with Chaos than with Order. If he was dumping Order in favour of Chaos, this all fits. But I've seen Quinn with the Helmet dozens of times."

"He didn't have the same trouble."

"And where is he? The Demon got grabbed… Thorn could have teleported him, but why? He's Justified. Unless someone told him otherwise, he'd just infect him and send him at the rest of us."

"Oi! Up here!"

I look up-. Can't see anyone, but there's a big wheel with thin spokes whose rim is blocking my line of sight. I fly up and around-.

Should I feel bad that I feel relieved?

"Demon."

The Demon Constantine has returned to his decayed demonic form, and has lost his shirt. There's a burn scar across the left side of his chest, large but not particularly deep. Chains which look a little like my magic suppression chains bind him to a plinth, which is in turn attached to a series of gears. The whole assemblage looks like it's free to move around the room if appropriately directed by… Someone.

"What are you doing here?"

"What?"

"What. Are. You. Doing. Here? I thought you and Quinn were mates."

"What are you talking about, we-."

My eyes glow orange as I try getting a better look at his psyche. This… This isn't the man we came in with. Not unless he's had massive psychic chirurgery.

"When was the last time you saw me?"

He considers me for a moment. Then some level of realisation dawns. "Azerbaijan. The General's place."

"Not today?"

"No." He smiles unpleasantly. "No, mate. I think you've been had."

I frown.

"That-. Can't, I-." I look around. If that was Quinn with us… Somehow, then this would be the time to attack, but… No, no one here. "What is this place?"

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

*facepalms* Shouldn't be surprised by being tricked by a Constantine, and yet…

 

[Ngamer11]

Is it possible that Quinn made a second Demon Constantine and gave him the first version's memories to act as a mole?

 

[Grimnar]

But why?

All I'm getting is Sword Art Online: Abridged flashbacks with Yoko.

 

[Silverias]

...I think Demon Constantine made another Demon Constantine as bait.

 

[Impatient_Quill]

...I think Demon Constantine made another Demon Constantine as bait.

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... I am just imagining Hell's reaction to finding out Constantine is now a type of demon capable of mitosis.

 

[Z000]

okay, what even going on anymore

how many Constantine clone is there

 

[MajorPane]

Well, I had wondered whether John would be truly moronic enough to create an Order based copy while keeping Chaos. That's just asking for... what we've been told happened to happen. My money says he created a 4th Constantine (ye gods) who's got all the Chaos mojo and that copy has been undercover as the Demon.

 

[Handlewithcare]

This demon isn't Justified. And strapped to an Order machine. Maybe a way to create and control the other demon?

But which one was the bait for? Paul, Allen, Sandman or Balewa?

And the end goal? Maybe just to get rid of an Antilife infection?

 

[Darko]

Sanderson looks over the edge at the drop. "Ah, how exactly is any of this 'orderly'?"

"It is closer to being orderly in the absolute sense, rather than in the limited human sense."

"Ah

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The universe may sometimes seem orderly, but it's really a chaotic mess.

"Massive arcane instability. Indeed, it may be thet the magic systems of the Earth become incapable of stability without an element of Order." He stops and turns around so that he can look directly into my face. "Please, do not do it

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Smart to tell him that.

But I've seen Quinn with the Helmet dozens of times."

"He didn't have the same trouble."

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Probably because he lacked the Chaos part.

he'd just infect him and send at the rest of us."

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"send him"

Up here!"

I looks up-.

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"look up"

"When was the last time you saw me?"

He considers me for a moment. Then some level of realisation dawns. "Azerbaijan. The General's place."

"Not today?"

"No." He smiles unpleasantly. "No, mate. I think you've been had."

I frown.

"That-. Can't, I-." I look around. If that was Quinn with us… Somehow, then this would be the time to attack, but… No, no one here. "What is this place

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The fuck is happening?

 

[Bramble Thorn]

okay, what even going on anymore

how many Constantine clone is there

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Too many. Regardless of whatever that actual numerical value may be.

 

[Darko]

... I am just imagining Hell's reaction to finding out Constantine is now a type of demon capable of mitosis.

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Demons: Oh, sweet Satan, they're breeding!?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

No, but that's the closest equivalent that the world of Avatar has to her becoming a member of the OLC.

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... I'm pretty sure ATLA has the concept of foreign organizations.

That aside it appears Paul has gotten himself into a bit of a pickle.

 

[Ngamer11]

... I'm pretty sure ATLA has the concept of foreign organizations.

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They don't have the concept of alternate universes or aliens. So a mysterious being who hasn't aged since the last time they saw them, which was decades ago, and claims to serve a spirit would get them to think this is spirit shenanigans.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

8th November 2012
12:17 GMT -5

Alan frowns as we pass what appears to be the same door for the twelfth time.

"Are you sure we're going somewhere?"

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Hey, magical architecture doesn't have to follow conventional laws of topography. Be glad you're at least all walking on the same plane of 'Down'. It might be one of those kinds of passages where just walking along it is weaving a magical effect, and the pace and number of loops affects your eventual exit.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Dr. Balewa smiles faintly as he nods. I glance to my left, watching the two brownies who are bringing up the rear as we ascend the Penrose stairs. We entered via a door in-. Well, about a third of the way back on the rotation, and we're been going around and around since. After the third I made a mark on the staircase just in case, and, yes, we've gone past it each time.

"Yes. Orange Lantern marked the floor, but not the doors. They change each time we rotate."

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As in, you're literally walking past different doors, made of different wood with different styles? Like I said, magical topography!

I knew that areas like this existed in the Tower of Fate, with a featureless void all around and staircases with variable gravitational pull all throughout it. I've just managed to avoid spending time here until now. In the distance I can see other staircases in the void, but they don't appear to connect to ours and I'm not sure what would happen if I tried flying to them.

Sanderson looks over the edge at the drop. "Ah, how exactly is any of this 'orderly'?"

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I... Would not go dashing off to check that theory out, OL. You might find yourself taking a very, very long flight across a suddenly infinite space.

"It is closer to being orderly in the absolute sense, rather than in the limited human sense."

"Ah…"

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Like a fractal image, then. That space where Order looks chaotic, yet is more orderly than you can imagine.

"The human mind is evolved to understand things thet it usually encounters in the world. But the world is not an orderly or rational place." He looks around at-. Yes, very droll. "Here is an order beyond anything thet you hev known. As orderly as can exist in and still interact with the material universe."

"If we cut the Plane of Order off from Earth completely, what happens?"

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...OL, No. Let's not dick around with the fabric of the universe again. Last time, you nearly triggered a Crisis by yourselves.

"Massive arcane instability. Indeed, it may be thet the magic systems of the Earth become incapable of stability without an element of Order." He stops and turns around so that he can look directly into my face. "Please, do not do it."

I acquiesce with a nod.

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Let's hope he at least listens to that advice.

"Here." Urisk takes hold of a door handle and pulls it open. "Demon spoor. The one who came with you."

"Who else?"

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Just, you understand, so OL knows which ammunition to load first...

"Order. Chaos-." He jerks his hand away, wincing. "The Empty One."

I frown. "Doctor Mist, wasn't Blackbriar Thorn the primary vector for the Anti-Life fragment? Isn't that why the brownies are free?"

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'Empty One'... Dark Druid, perhaps? Or someone we haven't seen yet in this episode...

"We know thet there are more fragments. There being another is.. concerning, but hardly beyond our expectations."

Alan nods. "It's in Quinn, right? It would.. have to be."

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I mean, chunks of Anti-life to tend to have certain warning signs. Unless it's a piece that makes you entirely amiable and friendly, yet cold and calculating when needed, surely there would have been something off about him? <Friendship = Manipulation> sounds right up a Constantine's alley.

"I hev been assuming so, but… No. Without some idea of what happened, there is no reason to assume so. It may be thet we hev already freed him."

He makes a motion with his hand and Urisk steps away from the door. Alan and I reengage our defences, then nod. He pushes it open and then walks briskly inside.

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Sadly, they don't have a proper tank to kick the door in, like any proper adventuring party. Though given the arcane nature of the place, having a big meatshield 'apply boot' probably would just end up with a large pile of smoking ash...

I follow-.

Huh.

A… Machine? A mechanism… In parts, at least. I can see rotating cogs and platforms with runic inscriptions whose shapes I don't recognise. Glowing crystals are.. common, forming patterns or.. just laid along the edges of parts of the device. There's a.. large screw in a central location. Nothing seems to be directly attached to it, though two platforms it sticking through their central hole.

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Want an idea of how it looks? Just look up any Jack Kirby 'ancient aliens' series like New Gods or Eternals. The King could design some crazy-looking gubbins.

Magic technology far in advance of anything I've seen before. But… Some parts…

"Is that New God technology?"

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I bet you can almost feel the devices in the 'empty' spots, can't you? Things that don't even exist in the same four dimensions as the rest, yet do an important thing regardless.

"You would be best placed to-." Dr. Balewa winces as golden lightning dances around his fingers.

Alan look concerned. "Are you okay?"

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Did he set off an alarm? Is Quinn blasting along the corridors in full regalia as we speak?

"It was not an attack. This much power, focused… It is like touching an electrified fence. It has been some time since I hev encountered…"

He takes a few steps forward, gazing up at the device.

"Something like this."

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The man gets around.

"Is it safe for me to fly?"

"Do not touch the Ophidian, but, yes."

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Little hard not to given it's got a direct line into his soul, but... Keeping an air-gap might work.

Ring, start mapping.

Compliance. Warning, mapping high concentration magic devices not reliable.

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I bet even the Ring's feeling a little awe at the complexity of this thing...

Do your best.

Compliance.

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Never asks for anything simple, does he?

"Doctor, are these all order-aligned?"

"Yes." He's still looking around, hopefully starting to put things together. "Everything integrated into the structure is resonant with Order."

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Despite the sheer chaotic nature of its appearance? More of that 'higher level of Order' stuff the Doctor was talking about, of course.

Alan comes up alongside me. "Something on your mind?"

"I always assumed that John would have an easier time with Chaos than with Order. If he was dumping Order in favour of Chaos, this all fits. But I've seen Quinn with the Helmet dozens of times."

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...Admittedly, this has been all based on a couple of assumptions. After all... Who told you that Nabu's mind was 'gone' from the helmet?

"He didn't have the same trouble."

"And where is he? The Demon got grabbed… Thorn could have teleported him, but why? He's Justified. Unless someone told him otherwise, he'd just infect him and send at the rest of us."

Click to shrink...

Although, to be fair, I doubt a Justified Demon would employ any of his more insidious tricks.

"Oi! Up here!"

I looks up-. Can't see anyone, but there's a big wheel with thin spokes whose rim is blocking my line of sight. I fly up and around-.

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Dun-dun-dun!

Should I feel bad that I feel relieved?

"Demon."

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Right, then. Who put him up there, and why?

The Demon Constantine has returned to his decayed demonic form, and has lost his shirt. There's a burn scar across the left side of his chest, large but not particularly deep. Chains which look a little like my magic suppression chains bind him to a plinth, which is in turn attached to a series of gears. The whole assemblage looks like it's free to move around the room if appropriately directed by… Someone.

"What are you doing here?"

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...Pardon? Surely time isn't that fucked up in here that it's been, what, weeks or months for him?

"What?"

"What. Are. You. Doing. Here? I thought you and Quinn were mates."

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Oh, it is strange seeing that 'demonic speech' font again. Surprised the Demon hasn't been using it more, unless his 'true' form does something nasty to his throat that no amount of lozenges could soothe...

"What are you talking about, we-."

My eyes glow orange as I try getting a better look at his psyche. This… This isn't the man we came in with. Not unless he's had massive psychic chirurgery.

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Especially if it's only been an hour or two... Oh, dear...

"When was the last time you saw me?"

He considers me for a moment. Then some level of realisation dawns. "Azerbaijan. The General's place."

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...Fuck. Fuckity fucking fuck. Someone rolled a trojan horse right inside OL's defenses.

"Not today?"

"No." He smiles unpleasantly. "No, mate. I think you've been had."

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But by who? Quinn, playing a game for his own reason? Original John, playing an even more chaotic game? The Golden Boy, assuming Quinn isn't him? Oh gods...

I frown.

"That-. Can't, I-." I look around. If that was Quinn with us… Somehow, then this would be the time to attack, but… No, no one here. "What is this place?"

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...And the universe is now screaming, as it realises there are at least four Constantines in one world. Which is three Constantines too many!

I'm pretty sure there's going to be some mops needed, to clean up the mess from all these brains that just exploded. Though clean-up might want to wait until we find just what the fucking fuck fucking Constantine has been doing all up in this fuck. Seriously, it feels like multiple Constantine plans are colliding here. And OL, Alan, Sandy and Doctor Balewa are standing right in the point of impact.

 

[DrThoth]

After what happened with Hugo Danner, I'm also kind of expecting the Demon Constantine we've been traveling with to actually be John the original, pulling some sort of long con that requires deceiving allies too (seems like something he'd do/have done).

So I'm wondering how much John Quinn's backstory here resembles comics canon Golden Boy, where I believe he's an alternate universe's counterpart of either John or John's twin brother? Zoat likes to do canon welding and re-imagining fairly often- arguably the most Orderly way of approaching the incoherence of over 50 years of comics continuity.

John's synchronicity magic 'aligning' his creation Quinn to another universe's closest example of what he wants to achieve still seems possible.

 

[Bud-E]

Wait if this Constantine hasn't seen Paul&Co since the Dreaming why would he think Paul and Quinn were friends? At that point they were already on the Quinn's untrustworthy plan. The fact that so many Constantine's exist means they all came together and made a plan not even they can follow?

 

[RichardWhereat]

But why?

All I'm getting is Sword Art Online: Abridged flashbacks with Yoko.

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We must save my family!

 

[BlackCoat13]

Well, this isn't the original Constantine or our 'friend' Demon C. We saw some of demon Constantine's perspective in earlier chapters. We know thanks to out of character knowledge that he's the legit demon Constantine we're familiar with. (I think? I'm actually not sure of this)

So this one is a fake somehow, trying to trick OL and crew. It'd be difficult to telepathically read OL or Doc. I believe Sandy would be naturally resistant as well. But Alan probably isn't?

There's the possibility that John, real original John was in the dream and pulled a switcheroo as he found the group on their way to the Tower. But then how would Demon Constantine have gotten here? How would Doc B have been tricked by John putting the Seal of Solomon on himself? More likely this new guy is a fake. John using the group to aggressively infiltrate at John Quinn posing as 'himself' would be a proper Constantine plan, but it would require being able to move Demon John here extremely rapidly and then return to assume his place without alerting Doc, who is one of the greatest mages in the history of Earth.

Another hypothetical is that if Quinn is another John Constantine who came here to usurp our local John, he might have made his own Demon Constantine to trick and track the crew while keeping the original for his machine, whatever its doing. He'd presumably have the speed and skill to pull it off, especially since the Tower's defenses wouldn't have fought him. A bit of head fuckery from Quinn could be what leads Demon C to not know what's going on...

However I think most likely what's going on is this new John is a doppleganger psychic creature, like a Martian but magical. It's attuned to the machine or something, so it doesn't get that feedback issue Doc B has that means he's having difficulty pulling off any magic right next to it. It might even be a New God weapon / security system to baffle intruders while it sounds out alerts to its master(s).

 

[Radiant Knight]

Zoat loves super esoteric character references, so I'm calling it now.

This is Dream Demon.

 

[NightmareWarden]

More questions behind every bloody door! Pain = Self.

Okay okay okay.

1. What is the true reason the Tower of Fate was moved adjacent to the Dream?
2. What happened to the first Constantine?
3. Where is the "Demon Constantine" who traveled with Sandy & Co?
4. Is Dream of the Endless meddling with anything here or with Sandy right now?
5. What is going on with all of the Anti-Life here?
6. What is the status of the Helmet of Fate?
7. Where is Onomatopoeia and anyone else who was stored in the Tower since Giovanni Zatara put on Nabu?
8. What spell or effect kept Paul from searching for Constantine?
9. Is any of this connected to The Light or the King of the World- Smiley?
10. What effect was used to dupe Paul and Nommo's detection abilities and trust their wayward party member?

 

[AmericanNumbers]

Or the "Demon Constantine " is Constantine

 

[Mr Zoat]

"send him"
"look up"

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Ok, I will need a straight forward explanation of what that fuck is going on, because I'm more lost than a psychopath's sense of empathy!

We saw The Demon's perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams, no? But this one says he hasn't seen the Illustres since the clusterfuck in Azerbaijan? When he was captured and the Speedster enemy of Jay showed up as a demon. So, was the perspective in the Baghdad of the Dreams real? What about the perspective we saw of The Demon calling on Chantinelle? I assumed that was after he escaped from Belle Reve. And The Demon that was with them was captured tried to reestablish a relationship with that Irish woman, right? And the Seal of Solomon supposedly worked on him and Dr. Mist said it worked and he could track it or some shit.

This is some screwy bullshit I tell you. All this could be explained if this new Demon is lying or there always were two Demon Constantines. But if those options are not the right ones, then I'm so hilariously confused.

 

[Darko]

...OL, No

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Now I'm imagining someone hitting him with a newspaper or spraying water at him to stop him from doing stupid things.

Hinon and Dox need to have some Lantern do that.

Let's hope he at least listens to that advice.

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Ha!

I mean, chunks of Anti-life to tend to have certain warning signs. Unless it's a piece that makes you entirely amiable and friendly, yet cold and calculating when needed, surely there would have been something off about him? <Friendship = Manipulation> sounds right up a Constantine's alley.

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Well the Equation is connected to Tyranny and some forms of tyranny do make the oppressed feel that the oppressor is their friend, so it could be something like that.

Admittedly, this has been all based on a couple of assumptions. After all... Who told you that Nabu's mind was 'gone' from the helmet?

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He may be brain dead, but it's possible what's left is influencing Quinn.

Or it could be like an Ultron situation.

When John made Quinn, he put the Helmet on but was overwhelmed by all the energy.

And the universe is now screaming, as it realises there are at least four Constantines in one world. Which is three Constantines too many!

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One Constantine is more than enough!

Seriously, it feels like multiple Constantine plans are colliding here. And OL, Alan, Sandy and Doctor Balewa are standing right in the point of impact

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The plan of a single Constantine is like a car going through a kindergarten at full speed.

The plan of multiple Constantines is like a supernova.