With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[AR760]

...Having the Justice League play Apocalyptian New God, all the while the other people of the world play Lowlie?

Yeah. This has Stanford Prison Experiment vibes all over it. I doubt this will end well. Especially with Anti-Life blaring out of the metaphorical boombox basically 24/7

 

[Duke Long]

From yesterday:

"Gary, do any of you have friends?"

"Some."

"With who?"

Click to shrink...

I think the first sentence should be more like 'are any of you friends with anyone?' or 'is anyone friends with any of you?' I don't think it's wrong, but it is awkwardly worded to my eyes.

From today:

"We heff… A plan. It is not a plan which makes me… I do not like it. But it is all we heff."

Click to shrink...

It's usually 'hev' in Balewa's accent.

If they are not reinforced from Apokolips, we can hold. And… I heff no better answer.

Click to shrink...

'hev'?

Good chapter. Very interesting.

 

[Cuchulin]

And the dandelions shall inherit the Earth.
...well it's either them or sandspurs.

Click to shrink...

The Kudzu will defeat them both.

 

[Mr Zoat]

They.

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Euanthe has certainly gone up in the world. Does this make her a peer or superior to her own mother, Gaia? Also, I really hope more people who respect the Green will in turn respect Paul due to his role in Euanthe's ascension.

Edit: I thought Gaia was Euanthe's mother, not grandmother? Or is she referring to someone else and I'm just misunderstanding her?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

So, more or less in full Kurnothi mode? Interesting to see the fertile feet on display, though.

Click to shrink...

Congratulations on finding one of the few things I have more contempt for than Nu52.

troubled only by faun or woodman

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

From yesterday:

I think the first sentence should be more like 'are any of you friends with anyone?' or 'is anyone friends with any of you?' I don't think it's wrong, but it is awkwardly worded to my eyes.

Click to shrink...

The SI wasn't expecting an affirmative answer.

From today:

It's usually 'hev' in Balewa's accent.

'hev'?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[mastermenthe]

Congratulations on finding one of the few things I have more contempt for than Nu52.

Click to shrink...

Contempt, hatred, or revulsion? I want specificity here.

 

[Windona]

So if Brasilia is in the Green, it's joining the ranks of cities like Rahnma Khan's then.

Benevolent Warlords seem like a stopgap until they can find the source of the Anti-Life and then destroy it. Short term solution to make the long term possible.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Contempt, hatred, or revulsion? I want specificity here.

Click to shrink...

Contempt. If I actually player Warhammer then I'd probably hate it.

 

[Duke Long]

Contempt. If I actually player Warhammer then I'd probably hate it.

Click to shrink...

I've heard that it's actually decent now, despite how horrendously bad it was at first. I don't actually play it or read any of the books though, so take that with a grain of salt.

 

[rkyeun]

Might be time to go to Themyscira and have Diana lead you to another talk with Gaia.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I've heard that it's actually decent now, despite how horrendously bad it was at first. I don't actually play it or read any of the books though, so take that with a grain of salt.

Click to shrink...

To to-hit roll is unaffected by your opponent's weapon skill.

I need nothing else.

But if I did, the fact that there are literally no formations would do it.

 

[Coda]

...why English

Click to shrink...

Because English can verb nouns at will. It's a feature.

limit it's influence

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its

purge the Earth's thaumosphere completely.

Click to shrink...

Why does this sound like a baby-and-bathwater solution?

 

[NightmareWarden]

Oh… What if the Anti-Life effect isn't turned off at the end of this? What if it has to slowly fade, cooling like a heated vessel over weeks or longer? I realize this isn't how Anti-Life is normally portrayed, but these are exceptional circumstances. Paul might have a hard time recognizing the world when he returns.

I wonder if anyone in his Corps will manage to divine the name of the Reach members who are assigned to study and kill Paul.

 

[Bud-E]

Oh… What if the Anti-Life effect isn't turned off at the end of this? What if it has to slowly fade, cooling like a heated vessel over weeks or longer? I realize this isn't how Anti-Life is normally portrayed, but these are exceptional circumstances. Paul might have a hard time recognizing the world when he returns.

I wonder if anyone in his Corps will manage to divine the name of the Reach members who are assigned to study and kill Paul.

Click to shrink...

A really fucked up but interesting plot point would be if after the League become Warlords a part of the populace want them to continue. Like the Anti-Life permanently fucked with their minds and they need "New-Gods" to lead them or they can't function or worse some other "Gods" will take their place.

 

[Reece]

Is there an easy way to find all the side story stuff? Like just the warhammr stuff, just The Boys stuff?

 

[Mr Zoat]

4th December 1998
07:21 GMT -7

I can't help but feel that I'm being indolent about the whole thing, but… I've gotten into the habit of having breakfast in a café.

"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."

Nothing crazy; though I could use the ring to deal with the consequences of a daily Full English Breakfast, given my current role I don't want to become that sort of person. It's disingenuous to lecture people about sin and the virtue of self-sacrifice while gorging yourself on meals that your forebears ate because lunch hadn't been invented yet and it had to see them through until the evening.

"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death."

I've really got to sort out something regarding my residential status. I don't think that I can just buy whatever the American equivalent of Indefinite Leave to Remain is, which is really inconvenient. I have no documentation for anywhere, and… I don't think that I want to become a citizen. I think that the possibility of conscripting people with superpowers is something that the US military probably shouldn't be tempted with.

Particularly given that most of the available superhumans come from hell, apparently.

"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

The British government can issue a draft, but it requires an Act of Parliament, and that's not going to happen. I mean, 1998? That's before the War on Terror. From the news reports I've caught on the televisions I've seen in various bars the Kosovo War is currently going on. Honestly, I'd forgotten that even happened until I saw a news report… Here. And I don't even remember that much about it now. The best I've been able to dredge up is that every ethnic group in the Balkans hate each other and will kill each other at the drop of a hat, but after the Bosnia War other countries were actually paying attention this time and Serbia got bombed until they stopped. And that Paddy Ashdown ran the government for a while after stepping down from the leadership of the Liberal Democrat party.

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It was probably a lot more complicated.

I could involve myself, but it's the Balkans. It's a byword for fractiousness and violence and has been for over a century. I don't have enough charge to just fly around doing whatever I want. Without something specific to do, not only would I out myself and perhaps the others, I wouldn't do anything that American airpower won't do in a few months anyway. So it-.

The priest pulls out the chair opposite me and slumps down. For a moment he just looks around at the passers-by who had been trying to ignore him. Then he turns his attention to me.

"What did you think?"

"I… Don't really have anything to compare it to. Though I do respect your willingness to engage in public oratory. Goodness knows I wouldn't want to."

"No. No." He leans forward. He's… I'd guess in his fifties, jaw length grey hair parted in the middle and combed back behind his ears. Face is.. angular, and to be honest his focus is a little off-putting. "Romans Six. I hear that you have an interest in theology."

R-ight, what was-. Ah, shazbot.

"I'm sorry, I didn't recognise you."

"Oh, I don't think that matters. After all, I didn't write it."

"It's a little more merciful than reality, I suppose." I shrug. "The wages of sin aren't death; they're eternal torment."

"Is that worse?"

"I'd say not, but I've never experienced eternal torment and a straw poll of those who have suggests that it's not an easy choice to make. I wonder if the verse was intended for the ears of Roman pagans, who could understand the idea of a god rewarding them with eternal life in heaven in exchange for obeying its laws more easily than the idea that that god had always been in control of things." I gesture to him with my right hand. "I'm sure you know better than me."

"I do." He nods. "I do. Which is why I really don't understand…" His face hardens. "Why you're pushing me on this."

I blink. "Really? You just read chapter and verse declaring that people should be righteous in exchange for eternal life, and that not doing so would result in oblivion, and you don't understand why I'm pushing you?"

"Oh, you think you're in the right." He fishes a bible out of his cassock. "Do you want me to find the parts about obedience to the will of God?"

I shrug.

"'If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.'"

I shrug again.

"And if I remember correctly, the Catholic Church is in the middle of a massive paedophilia cover-up at the moment, so I'm less inclined than might otherwise be the case to take their advice on the nature of God when I can't check their sources. Though if you're trying to warn me about the sin of pride, first, thank you. Second, I know that the powerful are inclined to forget that might doesn't make right because they don't need to remember it as much as less powerful people and I'm trying to make sure that I can take input from other people in the spirit in which it is intended."

"The people you're trying to save had their chance, the same chance everyone gets. Them being sent back where they belong is exactly what they deserve."

"See, I hear what you're saying, but you don't have the… Best reputation for honesty. My.. sponsor.. told me a few stories-."

"Your sponsor literally has a forked tongue."

"And it's playing to my prejudices, I did spot that. But the thing is, my sponsor has been nothing but helpful. Whereas you've been a dick. Not just to Detective Stone, but… Every time you meet him, you're encouraging vice amongst the people he sees you with."

"Tempting people is kinda my job."

"'I was just doing my job' hasn't been a valid excuse since the Nuremberg Trials. And probably a bit before that." I shrug. "Are you under some sort of obligation? Because… It occurs to me that… You know, if you've got enough freedom to get yourself into this position, you've probably got enough freedom to take a different approach to your work. Have you ever tried..? Not subjecting people to eternal torment?"

"Every job has some perks. I've seen every evil mankind has heaped upon itself, and I know perfectly well that the people it was dumped onto would return the favour if they could. Like your friend Miss DuBare, for instance."

I look away.

"Should have seen this coming."

He favours me with a hard smile. "You really should. Because since 'Zeke' is no longer reliable, I've been forced to bring in extra help."

"No, you chose to. It's your decision. Don't be so cowardly as to pretend otherwise."

"Alright." His posture relaxes, his smile becoming a little more honest. "I chose to bring in extra help. If I'd realised how cheaply they were prepared to work I wouldn't have bothered with Detective Stone in the first place."

"So now you value personal satisfaction above discharging your responsibilities effectively?"

"Oh, there's no need to worry. When you become one of my special guests, I'll be sure to give you the attention you deserve."

"Why, thank you, but I wonder if you've really thought this though."

"Oh, go on. I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say."

"If Miss DuBare takes an impromptu trip downstairs, then the only way for me to recover her… Is to pull the metaphorical trigger, get you fired and take your place."

He sniggers to himself.

Hm. I lean forward a little.

"If you don't think-."

He leans forward suddenly, staring into my eyes from an inch away.

"Take it as a sign of how much I hate you that I'm tempted to let you have it."

Then he leans back and stands, face back to normal. He flashes me an obviously fake smile.

"I'll see you on Sunday!"

 

[Sockmonkey]

The implication being that he's as much of a prisoner in hell as the rest of the inmates I think.

 

[Z000]

i have no idea what going on in this side piece

all i know is that people in Hell escape and some guy is going up to take them back and Paul have moral/philosophical issue with this whole thing

 

[Mr Zoat]

its

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Darko]

wonder the verse was intended

Click to shrink...

"if the verse"

"Your sponsor literally has a forked tongue

Click to shrink...

So it's the Ophidian, or a local version?

 

[Vaermina]

"Take it as a sign of how much I hate you that I'm tempted to let you have it."

Then he leans back and stands, face back to normal. He flashes me an obviously fake smile.

"I'll see you on Sunday!"

Click to shrink...

What is it with Orange Ring using Paul's suddenly becoming idiots when they have to deal with people connected to theology who are stronger then them?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

4th December 1998
07:21 GMT -7

I can't help but feel that I'm being indolent about the whole thing, but… I've gotten into the habit of having breakfast in a café.

"For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness."

Click to shrink...

Ah, back with old B-grade 90's TV. If that. Though if Paul here is in the same sort of situation as Zeke, then he's kind of stuck with cafés, lacking any permanent residence. Though with a functioning Power Ring, he shouldn't have any money troubles...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Nothing crazy; though I could use the ring to deal with the consequences of a daily Full English Breakfast, given my current role I don't want to become that sort of person. It's disingenuous to lecture people about sin and the virtue of self-sacrifice while gorging yourself on meals that your forebears ate because lunch hadn't been invented yet and it had to see them through until the evening.

"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death."

Click to shrink...

Though I suspect you could do without the sermon...

I've really got to sort out something regarding my residential status. I don't think that I can just buy whatever the American equivalent of Indefinite Leave to Remain is, which is really inconvenient. I have no documentation for anywhere, and… I don't think that I want to become a citizen. I think that the possibility of conscripting people with superpowers is something that the US military probably shouldn't be tempted with.

Particularly given that most of the available superhumans come from hell, apparently.

"But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life."

Click to shrink...

And there's no guarantee that your own power will last for any amount of time. At which point, they'd dump you on their science guys to let them try to reverse-engineer the Ring. And that won't be likely...

The British government can issue a draft, but it requires an Act of Parliament, and that's not going to happen. I mean, 1998? That's before the War on Terror. From the news reports I've caught on the televisions I've seen in various bars the Kosovo War is currently going on. Honestly, I'd forgotten that even happened until I saw a news report… Here. And I don't even remember that much about it now. The best I've been able to dredge up is that every ethnic group in the Balkans hate each other and will kill each other at the drop of a hat, but after the Bosnia War other countries were actually paying attention this time and Serbia got bombed until they stopped. And that Paddy Ashdown ran the government for a while after stepping down from the leadership of the Liberal Democrat party.

Click to shrink...

...Yeah, that sums up the situation about right. Getting used as the doormat of Europe for a thousand years or more didn't improve matters any either...

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It was probably a lot more complicated

Click to shrink...

Indeed...

I could involve myself, but it's the Balkans. It's a byword for fractiousness and violent and has been for over a century. I don't have enough charge to just fly around doing whatever I want. Without something specific to do, not only would I out myself and perhaps the others, I wouldn't do anything that American airpower won't do in a few months anyway. So it-.

The priest pulls out the chair opposite me and slumps down. For a moment he just looks around at the passers-by who had been trying to ignore him. Then he turns his attention to me.

Click to shrink...

...Well, this is significant. Best to pay attention...

"What did you think?"

"I… Don't really have anything to compare it to. Though I do respect your willingness to engage in public oratory. Goodness knows I wouldn't want to."

Click to shrink...

I can understand the desire to sit back and keep your head down. Limited Ring charge and all that... And trying to warn about things yet to come might well get you disappeared by people curious as to how you know...

"No. No." He leans forward. He's… I'd guess in his fifties, jaw length grey hair parted in the middle and combed back behind his ears. Face is.. angular, and to be honest his focus is a little off-putting. "Romans Six. I hear that you have an interest in theology."

R-ight, what was-. Ah, shazbot.

Click to shrink...

Hello, Satan. Or are you an Angel today?

"I'm sorry, I didn't recognise you."

"Oh, I don't think that matters. After all, I didn't write it."

Click to shrink...

And when you're dealing with a major Power, you'd do well to be polite...

"It's a little more merciful than reality, I suppose." I shrug. "The wages of sin aren't death; they're eternal torment."

"Is that worse?"

Click to shrink...

Total Cessation, or an eternity of suffering. Hard choice.

"I'd say not, but I've never experienced eternal torment and a straw poll of those who have suggests that it's not an easy choice to make. I wonder the verse was intended for the ears of Roman pagans, who could understand the idea of a god rewarding them with eternal life in heaven in exchange for obeying its laws more easily than the idea that that god had always been in control of things." I gesture to him with my right hand. "I'm sure you know better than me."

Click to shrink...

Pity they were more likely to end up downstairs than on high...

"I do." He nods. "I do. Which is why I really don't understand…" His face hardens. "Why you're pushing me on this."

I blink. "Really? You just read chapter and verse declaring that people should be righteous in exchange for eternal life, and that not doing so would result in oblivion, and you don't understand why I'm pushing you?"

Click to shrink...

Ol' Jack's got a bit of a blind spot, doesn't he?

"Oh, you think you're in the right." He fishes a bible out of his cassock. "Do you want me to find the parts about obedience to the will of God?"

I shrug.

Click to shrink...

Since this Paul is probably still soundly in the Atheist camp, and has little tolerance for 'jumped-up elementals'...

"'If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.'"

I shrug again.

Click to shrink...

And what if you're not interested in either option? I doubt either side is particularly patient with fence-sitters...

"And if I remember correctly, the Catholic Church is in the middle of a massive paedophilia cover-up at the moment, so I'm less inclined than might otherwise be the case to take their advice on the nature of God when I can't check their sources. Though if you're trying to warn me about the sin of pride, first, thank you. Second, I know that the powerful are inclined to forget that might doesn't make right because they don't need to remember it as much as less powerful people and I'm trying to make sure that I can take input from other people in the spirit in which it is intended."

Click to shrink...

...On the other hand, Paul technically doesn't have a Soul. I don't know how important that is in this universe, but I suspect that'll be a problem eventually...

"The people you're trying to save had their chance, the same chance everyone gets. Them being sent back where they belong is exactly what they deserve."

"See, I hear what you're saying, but you don't have the… Best reputation for honesty. My.. sponsor.. told me a few stories-."

Click to shrink...

Oh? Do tell, who is backing you, Paul? Someone scaly, perhaps?

"Your sponsor literally has a forked tongue."

"And it's playing to my prejudices, I did spot that. But the thing is, my sponsor has been nothing but helpful. Whereas you've been a dick. Not just to Detective Stone, but… Every time you meet him, you're encouraging vice amongst the people he sees you with."

Click to shrink...

Hmm... The Ophidian, playing up the 'Serpent of Eden' drabble it was credited with? Or perhaps another player in Hell... Since in some theology, Satan is not a Name, but a Title.

"Tempting people is kinda my job."

"'I was just doing my job' hasn't been a valid excuse since the Nuremberg Trials. And probably a bit before that." I shrug. "Are you under some sort of obligation? Because… It occurs to me that… You know, if you've got enough freedom to get yourself into this position, you've probably got enough freedom to take a different approach to your work. Have you ever tried..? Not subjecting people to eternal torment?"

Click to shrink...

Probably comes with the territory. Or God's picky, and his man downstairs has to work with what he's given...

"Every job has some perks. I've seen every evil mankind has heaped upon itself, and I know perfectly well that the people it was dumped onto would return the favour if they could. Like your friend Miss DuBare, for instance."

I look away.

Click to shrink...

And if humanity has Free Will, that was her choice. No fair using a few bad apples to sours the entire basket.

"Should have seen this coming."

He favours me with a hard smile. "You really should. Because since 'Zeke' is no longer reliable, I've been forced to bring in extra help."

Click to shrink...

Then again, he's unreliable mostly because you tried to give him the mushroom treatment. And now you're surprised he's not happy? Pity it's too early for 'Shocked Pikachu Face' to be a meme yet.

"No, you chose to. It's your decision. Don't be so cowardly as to pretend otherwise."

"Alright." His posture relaxes, his smile becoming a little more honest. "I chose to bring in extra help. If I'd realised how cheaply they were prepared to work I wouldn't have bothered with Detective Stone in the first place."

Click to shrink...

Ah, scab labour. The problem is, will they cause more trouble in the long run than they're worth? Or is that not your problem?

"So now you value personal satisfaction above discharging your responsibilities effectively?"

"Oh, there's no need to worry. When you become one of my special guests, I'll be sure to give you the attention you deserve."

Click to shrink...

What makes you think he's under anyone's jurisdiction, Nicky?

"Why, thank you, but I wonder if you've really thought this though."

"Oh, go on. I'm fascinated to hear what you have to say."

Click to shrink...

Are you sure? Are you really sure?

"If Miss DuBare takes an impromptu trip downstairs, then the only way for me to recover her… Is to pull the metaphorical trigger, get you fired and take your place."

He sniggers to himself.

Click to shrink...

Unexpected reaction. Confidence borne of ignorance, or does he know something Paul doesn't?

Hm. I lean forward a little.

"If you don't think-."

Click to shrink...

...I can feel the smug from here.

He leans forward suddenly, staring into my eyes from an inch away.

"Take it as a sign of how much I hate you that I'm tempted to let you have it."

Click to shrink...

Ah. Ahhh... Grown a bit sick of the day job, eh? Looking to pass the keys on to some unsuspecting patsy?

Then he leans back and stands, face back to normal. He flashes me an obviously fake smile.

"I'll see you on Sunday!"

Click to shrink...

I see someone's trying to play a long game...

Hmm... Interesting discussion, and a suggestive revelation at the end there. Perhaps this Satan is growing sick of ruling in Hell, and would like to go back to serving in Heaven, eh? But he can't just leave the throne empty... At any rate, it looks like both sides might be concerned with Paul's place on the board of the game. Nothing like a wild card to spice up a stagnant match...

 

[FeepingCreature]

Allow me to take this opportunity to quote another book dealing with the morality of eternal punishment, from a conversation of another powerful character with the literal devil:

"And then what? Fine. You convince God to save Sodom. And what do you get? A city full of Sodomites. The scum of the earth. Worms and maggots infesting the world. And now they'll never stop, because you showed them they'll never face punishment for their crimes. They're all yours. What does it gain you?"

"I keep them from you," said Jalaketu.

Click to shrink...

--Unsong

In the face of such evil, being good may be hard, but it's at least not complicated.

 

[BR549]

At any rate, it looks like both sides might be concerned with Paul's place on the board of the game. Nothing like a wild card to spice up a stagnant match...

Click to shrink...

As the saying goes, if both sides hate you, it's obvious that you must be doing something right.

 

[Vaermina]

Hmm... Interesting discussion, and a suggestive revelation at the end there. Perhaps this Satan is growing sick of ruling in Hell, and would like to go back to serving in Heaven, eh? But he can't just leave the throne empty... At any rate, it looks like both sides might be concerned with Paul's place on the board of the game. Nothing like a wild card to spice up a stagnant match...

Click to shrink...

It sounded more like the job was so horrible that he literally wouldn't wish it on his worst enemy.

 

[Rafin]

So it's the Ophidian, or a local version?

Click to shrink...

That's actually an interesting point. Is the Ophidian roughly the same in every setting that Paul ends up in with an orange ring? Does that mean that it gets transported/copied along with the ring and Paul in order to make it work? Or that in the Paul universe the Ophidian is an omniversal entity like the Endless? And if it's the former, do the other emotional spectrum entities get dragged along with it or would that require someone else with the respective ring color getting SI'd there first? Also, I assume that even if the Ophidian was crossovered to this setting, Larfleeze and all the events that led to the Ophidian's imprisonment weren't necessarily. They were in the various DC universes, but at the very least there are some universes where it just can't be the case. Like the Marvel amd WH40k ones.

 

[Ngamer11]

I'd still like an explanation as to how this version of the SI is able to charge his ring. Also, what does he call himself here?

 

[Doccer]

Then again, he's unreliable mostly because you tried to give him the mushroom treatment. And now you're surprised he's not happy? Pity it's too early for 'Shocked Pikachu Face' to be a meme yet.

Click to shrink...

Do u know what was up with the mushroom or Paul's benefactor?

 

[Mr Zoat]

"if the verse"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Duke Long]

It was probably a lot more complicated

Click to shrink...

Either this sentence has been cut short or it's just missing a full stop.

 

[Windona]

And this is where my lack of familiarity with Brimstone is tripping me up. I have no idea who that Priest Guy is, besides the fact he apparently gives orders to Detective Stone.

Kinda funny for the guy to talk about people going back to hell when Christianity has the whole thing about Jesus being the lamb of God and through believing in him and true repentance you can have your sins forgiven.

...this just reminds me why I'm interested in learning more about Jewish theology.