With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mquz]

How do you know a Truth wave works like that, and to that extent? Truth probably wouldn't affect permanent mind/soul alteration like assimilation; their 'truth' changed, and that's now their true form. There's no false mental overlay, control, w/e to affect.

I mean, if we're saying that it does that, why wouldn't it, say... revert demons to their 'true' pre-death human state? Heal any injury/death by restoring people to their 'true' form? Convert demon machinery back into the souls made to use it? Convert assimilated constructs back into the people they used to be?

Also, if it was that easy to free assimilated constructs, I feel like the controller(s?) researching them to see if they could be freed would have found that. It's not like they're unfamiliar with magic.

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It would maybe reverse pure mind control of the sort where it's like a "geas", where you can try to resist it, but nothing happens - a mental compulsion. But the control Zoat used is different.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Link?

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It wasn't an omake... Unless he has a very strange definition of what an omake is... Then again I don't follow Mr Zoat everywhere, so if he posted it somewhere else outside the main thread, or it wasn't threadmarked, then I probably missed it.

I do remember someone asking Zoat about how Paul would handle things if he was in 40k and Zoat posting a meaty reply, but beyond that I got nothing... I am just following the motions and reading updates like a machine because best magic girl Zatanna got her heart broken in the mehragon timeline and the competency timeline.

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Fuck, it was in the omake index when I read all of them a few years ago I'll go back and see if I can find it. (probably better off asking midnightflame or Xavier brown if they're still around)

EDIT:
I ONLY WENT AND FUCKING DID IT https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-thread-eleven.311139/page-1068#post-17684735
but yeah it was old

 

[WhiteNoise]

despite my antipathy towards them- many angels are in fact reasonable, rational beings whose ends do not necessarily match my own."

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Do you mean "whose ends do not necessarily oppose my own."? Because there's no reason to expect matching, and previous conflicts would give reason to expect oppositions.

 

[Chaoswind]

Fuck, it was in the omake index when I read all of them a few years ago I'll go back and see if I can find it. (probably better off asking midnightflame or Xavier brown if they're still around)

EDIT:
I ONLY WENT AND FUCKING DID IT https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-thread-eleven.311139/page-1068#post-17684735
but yeah it was old

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Not by Zoat and wasn't threadmarked, no wonder I missed it.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Not by Zoat and wasn't threadmarked, no wonder I missed it.

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I'm actually not sure what omake means is it like Apocrypha? or something.
I assumed it meant not written by author.

 

[Eponymic]

I hear Wallace exhale. "I'd vote for someone who wanted to make truth magic part of police interviews. Y'know, if I wasn't going to miss the election by five days."

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Wow, either Kid Flash is still a... Kid, or this is the least American thing I've ever heard him say, 'cause we've got this thing called the 5th Amendment. Has he been spending time talking with Canis?

On another note, considering you've got a totally not Supergirl with someone else inside here head, and OL's meta gaming, maybe the other totally not Supergirl should spend some time around the exorcist too?

 

[Pinklestia]

Oh Paul... Someone really needs to sit you down and explain about how Good and Evil actually exist in this universe...

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There are good demons and evil angels so that does complicate things.

Plus ta know the fact that anyone who is a non believer defaults to Helll when they died even if they weren't a bad person?

Plua ya know how Supergitl in the comics ended in Hell?

There are enough hints that the so called White God doesn't give a fuck.

Plus this Earth has Constantine Angels on it so at least a few Angels are dixks or outright evil for sure.

 

[Mquz]

Wow, either Kid Flash is still a... Kid, or this is the least American thing I've ever heard him say, 'cause we've got this thing called the 5th Amendment. Has he been spending time talking with Canis?

On another note, considering you've got a totally not Supergirl with someone else inside here head, and OL's meta gaming, maybe the other totally not Supergirl should spend some time around the exorcist too?

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It'd be like a polygraph, which is legal. Just harder to fool. The DND Circle of truth works like a polygraph, if I remember.

 

[Stsword]

Plua ya know how Supergitl in the comics ended in Hell?

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Earthborn angels in DC inevitably fall to corruption if they don't die first, Linda's "burn them all and let god sort them out" attitude made it clear that fate had befallen her in Reign in Hell, especially since she came to Hell from being summoned by Lilith who called in "all those indebted to Hell."

A better example of the point you are trying to make is Guy not only going to Hell when he died, but becoming a demon lord after the Imperiex War.

Spoiler

 

[Eponymic]

It'd be like a polygraph, which is legal. Just harder to fool. The DND Circle of truth works like a polygraph, if I remember.

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IANAL, but in the States they mostly aren't legal. Federally the results are usually inadmissable in criminal law, and state by state varies but is usually either inadmissable or both parties need to agree. Regardless you can't be compelled to take one.

 

[Ganurath]

It'd be like a polygraph, which is legal. Just harder to fool. The DND Circle of truth works like a polygraph, if I remember.

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It doesn't. It's a restrictive compulsion that prevents deliberately spoken falsehoods. It's possible Wally was thinking of truth detecting magic, but most truth magic in fiction is of the truth compelling variety, rather than truth discerning.

 

[Mquz]

It doesn't. It's a restrictive compulsion that prevents deliberately spoken falsehoods. It's possible Wally was thinking of truth detecting magic, but most truth magic in fiction is of the truth compelling variety, rather than truth discerning.

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Well, yes. But in DND you can a. Remain silent, or just talk about something else, and b. Tell if the circle is on if you are in it. Therefore it's like a polygraph, since it doesn't compel the truth, but rather just not lying.

 

[Ganurath]

Well, yes. But in DND you can a. Remain silent, or just talk about something else, and b. Tell if the circle is on if you are in it. Therefore it's like a polygraph, since it doesn't compel the truth, but rather just not lying.

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Guess how many suspected criminals in DC play Dungeons & Dragons know the nuances of how spells work.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Fuck, it was in the omake index when I read all of them a few years ago I'll go back and see if I can find it. (probably better off asking midnightflame or Xavier brown if they're still around)

EDIT:
I ONLY WENT AND FUCKING DID IT https://forums.spacebattles.com/thr...-thread-eleven.311139/page-1068#post-17684735
but yeah it was old

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Thanks for the effort!

This was an appropriately bleak and depressing outcome for 40k.

 

[Pinklestia]

Linda's "burn them all and let god sort them out" attitude made it clear that fate had befallen her in Reign in Hell, especially since she came to Hell from being summoned by Lilith who called in "all those indebted to Hell."

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That made no fucking sence since before appearing in hell she had been a superhero and not the Punisher type. And she did not make any pact with a demon or something.

Not to mention that when she used that fire ability she could only really hurt really evil people who escaped mortal justice to start with.

DC is quite sexist, isn't it?

And if that time line still exists then she is still stuck in Hell since in other continuities that version of Supergirl doesn't exist.

 

[Vaermina]

There are good demons and evil angels so that does complicate things.

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There are no Good demons or Evil angels in DC.

It is in fact physically impossible.

You're conflating the human morality of good and evil with the conceptual Good and Evil as it exists in DC comics.

Plus ta know the fact that anyone who is a non believer defaults to Helll when they died even if they weren't a bad person?

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No, they go to Limbo for a little bit then move onto the Silver City.

Plua ya know how Supergitl in the comics ended in Hell?

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I know how Linda Danvers ended up in Hell.

Hell called in all debts owed and dragged every being with such into the pit.

There are enough hints that the so called White God doesn't give a fuck.

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The White God is from Dresden Files not DC comics...

Plus this Earth has Constantine Angels on it so at least a few Angels are dixks or outright evil for sure.

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Some are assholes, but again, that's human morality, not Good and Evil as the concept.

 

[Buggy123]

There are no Good demons or Evil angels in DC.

It is in fact physically impossible.

You're conflating the human morality of good and evil with the conceptual Good and Evil as it exists in DC comics.

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Okay, it's perfectly possible to define a morality where all demons are always bad, and all angels are always good. And as you said, this is not human morality.

I just have one question though: Why should anyone, be it us out-universe, or OL in-universe, care about that definition in the slightest?

 

[Ardy]

Okay, it's perfectly possible to define a morality where all demons are always bad, and all angels are always good. And as you said, this is not human morality.

I just have one question though: Why should anyone, be it us out-universe, or OL in-universe, care about that definition in the slightest?

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Because Vaermina, the ultimate judge of morality, is endorsing it. Duh.

 

[Vaermina]

Okay, it's perfectly possible to define a morality where all demons are always bad, and all angels are always good. And as you said, this is not human morality.

I just have one question though: Why should anyone, be it us out-universe, or OL in-universe, care about that definition in the slightest?

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Because exposure to "Evil" does really bad things to mortal souls.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Thanks for the effort!

This was an appropriately bleak and depressing outcome for 40k.

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What are you talking about everyone got what they D̙̬̘̊͒̿͊̕ę͉̪̻̦͔̏ͬ̋ͤ̂̀ͅs̸̛̭̖͔̖̘̜̪̅̉̂͡i͓̖̪̹̘̎͟r̨̢̜̗͙̥̜̀ë͉̖͈̙̬́ͥ̀͠͡d̨̯̪̓͋͆̂ͣ̾ͮͤ̓ ̖̼̗͉͕̭̘ͤ͗̍͆̀̀͢

 

[Buggy123]

Because exposure to "Evil" does really bad things to mortal souls.

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Do we actually know that? The one clear example we have of someone getting a huge dose of "Evil" (aka just Demon) is OL when he invaded Hell, and he just had substantially reduced sympathy. He still had essentially the same motivations and end-goals as before, all of which were essentially neutral or good.

The users of DMN also don't seem particularly worse for wear, from what we've seen. I mean, many of them were violent cultists, which sort of skews things a bit, but they didn't seem substantially more violent afterwards. And the non-violent DMN users we've seen here seem perfectly normal.

 

[Queshire]

And that wasn't capital-E Evil anyways. That was just hell magic iirc.

 

[Mr Zoat]

28th January
13:16 GMT -5

Robert floats through what looks like a campfire site, occasionally closing his eyes to better feel whatever it is that he's feeling.

"People were killed here."

"Can you tell how many?"

He shakes his head. "More than one, less than a hundred. The fire's covering everything up."

I frown. The ground is clearly blackened where the fire was lit, but I can't see any other signs of burning. "Where..?"

He lands, laying his hands on the ground. "Contained by magic, probably. I'd guess they cancelled the containment spell then left the fire burning for a bit to cover it up."

"Does your training include necromancy?"

"Nah." He shakes his head. "Dad's not keen. Otherworld's one thing, but messing around with Heaven or Hell is really s-something you have to think about very carefully."

I nod, smiling. "Very carefully."

I've got traces of genetic material from the site, but… Nothing I'd want to rely on in court. Or even in the less formal environment in which superhero investigations take place. The trees provide some cover from the winds, but what I'm picking up could have come from anywhere.

"So I wouldn't want to try calling anyone up."

"That's fine." There might not have been a jump in the murder rates, but that still gives a demon cult some leeway given that Virginia has over three hundred murders annually. "Can you track Buzz's magic with this?"

He stands, shaking his head. "Sorry, mate."

I walk over to him, pulling the knife out of my pouch and offering it to him. "Would this help?"

"Maybe?" He takes it, holding it by the guard with his left hand and moving his right over its surface. "At least one person was killed with this. And-." His eyes come fully open. "Yeah. Got someone. Feels… Like demon magic. And… If this was the murder weapon…"

He kneels, stabbing the knife into the ground and then standing and taking a step back.

"I should be able to get a direction and… Roughly the distance."

"How 'should' is 'should'?"

"Blood and death are powerful ritual components. If he had a shield up strong enough to block it, Doctor Fate would have felt that."

I nod, then frown. "You sure that's not necromancy?"

"I guess it… Kind of is? But no one means this when they say 'necromancy'."

I nod, then raise my left hand to my ear. "Orange Lantern to Aqualad. We think we can trace Buzz. Should we proceed?"

"We have.. located a group of cultists. They are armed, though if they possess any-"

I hear automatic weapon fire.

"-Devil Jizz they have not used it."

"Do you want me to help?"

"This is well within our abilities. Find the leader and defeat him before he can carry out any further evil acts."

"Rightoh. I'll let you know once he's in custody. Orange Lantern out." I lower my hand. "I'll transition us to his approximate location. We'll locate him together and then I'll fly us to him. Stay back and counter his magic as best you can while I take him down."

"Um-. I haven't really.. practised countering demon magic. I can disrupt simple stuff whatever he does, but I'm not… Y'know, Doctor Fate."

"That's perfectly fine. I'm not expecting you to be." I smile. "Not for a few years, anyway."

"Right." He nods, then returns his attention to the knife. "Just got to.. redirect-."

Something flows through the clearing, causing my environmental shield to flicker. Robert shakes for a moment and then gestures north north east.

"That way. About… Ah… Fifty miles? On a road, big road. In a lorry."

Ring, scan.

I step towards Robert as he snatches up the knife, an image of the area appearing in my mind. Interstate 81 is roughly in the right area. No.. obvious gaps in the traffic where something is defying my scans.

"Transition in one."

We appear a mile up, looking down at the traffic. Compare visual image to scan…

Got you.

I transition us again, appearing in front of an articulated lorry and flying backwards to keep pace with it. The driver's eyes are slightly vacant, while-. While my eyes fail to see whoever is in the passenger seat beside him.

Robert swipes his right hand across, and a sudden gust of eldritch wind causes whatever spell Buzz was using to flicker and fail. The driver jerks, blinking as the mental influence spell fails and momentarily losing control-.

I stick a construct around the lorry and rise into the air, stopping once we're about a mile up.

"Mister Buzz, you are under arrest."

The driver frowns, looks right and visibly starts. "Who the fuck are you? What the fuck is going on?"

Buzz's eyes flick from Robert and then back to me. "Easy does it, lads. No need for-."

The front cab of the lorry disintegrates, segments floating in the air as I pull it apart. A large reptilian hand construct grabs Buzz and pulls him free, his legs dangling. The parts of the lorry then flow back together, then I lower it into a lay-by to allow the driver to recover.

"I have corpses, Mister Buzz. A minor brothel madam who somehow found herself in possession of a book instructing the reader in the use of demonic magic. I have a knife and a woman who appears to have been merged with a disempowered angel-."

"Oh yeah." He grins unpleasantly. "Nice work with that, by the way. Howagh!"

I remove the mage slayer round from his forehead and then attach the binding chains to his arms and legs.

"So this is what you actually look like? Curious."

"I've-." He tries to pull against the chains and gets nowhere. "I've always looked like this."

"Originally human? Well, you wouldn't be the only one."

He stares me in the eyes. "Yeah. Bet even you were Human once upon a time."

I chuckle, then shake my head. "Mister Buzz, I am not an impressionable teenager. If you wish to play mind games with me you will have to up your game. Now, do you intend to tell me what you've been up to in Virginia, or-" I hold my left hand out towards him, palm first. "-do I have to encourage you?"

"You allowed to do that?"

"Ongoing demonic threat. Any and all means to prevent loss of life. I'd try and turn it off afterwards, but? No promises."

"Fine-. Fine. This whole thing's been a huge waste of time anyway. I should have cut 'n run when you got away from the fuckin' Host."

"The benefits of hindsight. Now, tell me about the Devil Jizz."

"Oh, that had nothing to do with m-."

I roll my eyes.

"Brand."

 

[Simonbob]

Surprisingly, no one seems to be in it for religion.

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As best I can tell, there are no, or almost no, actual Christians here.

There's certainly none working for DC comics, hasn't been for decades, as far as I can tell.

It shows.

 

[BR549]

OL: "Bored now."

Robert floats through what looks like a campfire sight,

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Site

"Oh, that had nothing[i/] to do with m-."

I roll my eyes.

"Brand."

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Broken end italics.

As best I can tell, there are no, or almost no, actual Christians here.

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Hello there!

 

[Prince Charon]

"Oh, that had nothing[i/] to do with m-."

I roll my eyes.

"Brand."

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Huh. He might have been telling the truth about that part.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Robert floats through what looks like a campfire sight...

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Robert floats through what looks like a campfire site...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

He shakes his head. "More than one, less than a hundred. The fire's covering everything up."

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Welp, that's not good in any way.

"Nah." He shakes his head. "Dad's not keen. Otherworld's one thing, but messing around with Heaven or Hell is really s-something you have to think about very carefully."

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Given OL's experiences, very very true.

I walk over to him, pulling the knife out of my pouch and offering it to him. "Would this help?"

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And you didn't lead with the knife why?

"Maybe?" He takes it, holding it my the guard with his left hand...

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"Maybe?" He takes it, holding it by the guard with his left hand...

I nod, the frown. "You sure that's not necromancy?"

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I nod, then frown. "You sure that's not necromancy?"

"This is well within our abilities. Find the leader and defeat him before he can carry out any further evil acts."

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Like unleashing an actual demon? Good idea.

I step towards Robert as he snatches up the knife, an image of the area appearing in my mind. Interstate 81 is roughly in the right area. No.. obvious gaps in the traffic where something is defying my scans.

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Amazing, no Ward? Either Buzz is sloppy or he's incompetent.

I transition us again, appearing in front of an articulated lorry and flying backwards to keep pace with it. The driver's eyes are slightly vacant, while-. While my eyes fail to see whoever is in the passenger seat beside him.

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Sneaky sneaky.

I stick a construct around the lorry and rise into the air, stopping once we're about a mile up.

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Stylish!

The driver frowns, looks left and visibly starts. "Who the fuck are you? What the fuck is going on?"

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Not a willing accomplice then.

The front cab of the lorry disintegrates, segments floating in the air as I pull it apart. A large reptilian hand construct grabs Buzz and pulls him free, his legs dangling free. The parts of the lorry then flow back together, then I lower it into a lay-by to allow the driver to recover.

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Definite style bonus there!

"Oh yeah." He grins unpleasantly. "Nice work with that, by the way. Howagh!"

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He's not complimenting you, jackass.

I chuckle, then shake my head. "Mister Buzz, I am not an impressionable teenager. If you wish to play mind games with me you will have to up your game. Now, do you intend to tell me what you've been up to in Virginia, or-" I hold my left hand out towards him, palm first. "-do I have to encourage you?"

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Hmm, good cop, bad cop, or Batman. Let's go with Batman.

"Fine-. Fine. This whole thing's been a huge waste of time anyway. I should have cut 'n run when you got away from the fuckin' host."

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This might be better capitalised, being he's referring to the organisation of the Heavenly Hosts...

Yeah, this guy is a little shit. Pump him for info, then toss him in a deep dark hole...

 

[Ganurath]

Huh. He might have been telling the truth about that part.

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What motive does he have to do that that he would think of?

 

[Simonbob]

Hello there!

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Huh.

Ok. Well, then, I'll stand by my statement that there's none in DC.

 

[Buggy123]

People: "Why can't OL ever take people out, he's way too weak for a experienced ring user!"

Meanwhile, over the course of several hours, Orange Lantern and his friends effortlessly demolish another demonic cult.