With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · Jun 22, 2019

Mquz said:
He told them to make a game based on it. I'm preety sure it's trending on the internet by now. Or at least once they announce the game. I kind of want to see it: something like Sid Meier's pirates, but with player narrative choice and possibly Mass Effect style dialogue. Though it's rare to find a good game based on an existing, unaltered, setting from a different medium.

Aeess said:
He tasked a bunch of video game developers to make a game out of Vega, told them about the genocide and offered to provide additional data, I assumed that they shared that info with their employees and probably others.

Yes, you're right, I forgot that he said that.

Ganurath · Jun 23, 2019

Tzeentch said:
Really? Like who? And how did he survive?

Apparently, I don't know, and probably by being better at killing than them.

RichardWhereat · Jun 23, 2019

Mquz said:
This Luthor works like a Mafia don. He doesn't do anything you can prove he personally did. He bankrolls criminals out of pocket, so there is never any proof he knew they were criminals. The only eveidence is a bunch of cash taken out of his account, and officially used for expenses which hold up. Everyone was working independently of him, and he profits indirectly through goods left over somewhere / rivals destroyed. If he gets people to rob a bank, he's not there himself, and all his tech is marked off as stolen. Like was pointed out, the JL can only suspect he was doing things wrong, and can't arrest him without evidence. For all they definitely know, he's just donating to charity. Of course, like a don, everyone knows he did it, but can't prove it. When he fights Superman directly, if he does (which he hasn't so far), he's perfectly legally fighting a vigilante picking on an ordinary businessman (himself). Questioning under magic / compulsion is illegal in the US, so as long as everyone agrees with him, and he doesn't do anything obviously against the interests of the United States, there is no proof of wrongdoing.

What episode did we see him working like this in? I can't remember anything like that.

Coda · Jun 23, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
What episode did we see him working like this in? I can't remember anything like that.

Excavation is probably the most direct reference -- LexCorp managing to have deniability about anything criminal. Cadmus was another example, with the questionable practices being completely off the books and Lex disavowing those actions when they came to light.

EDIT: The way the Light hires thugs is another good example. Paid off the books by an anonymous party so the patsy can't tie anything back to him.

RichardWhereat · Jun 23, 2019

Off the lexcorp books doesn't mean that there's no trail that Paul in snake-mode using hyperscan can't find.

Coda · Jun 23, 2019

Oh, sure. That doesn't change the fact that Lex OPERATES that way, it just means that there's a more powerful player in the game that can trump his defenses, given sufficient desire to do so.

Reading through Excavation again, the mafia don tendencies are even more on display than I remembered:

Sharing information with anyone will get you fired and sued." Or worse. Lex does not take betrayals well.

Mquz · Jun 23, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
Off the lexcorp books doesn't mean that there's no trail that Paul in snake-mode using hyperscan can't find.

Not necessarily admissible as actual evidence. As noted at the beginning of the last episode, when he's talking to the police, a lot of evidence from superpowers is not admissible in court, since the justice system isn't built for it. It's also theoretically easy for him to fake evidence, which he refuses to do for moral reasons. At most, he can get evidence that would possibly allow an investigation due to suspicion, but there won't be any evidence pointing directly to Luthor when the police come, and since Lex isn't proving an immediate obvious threat to anyone's safety, mind control/ truth magic is illegal, and asking questions pertaining to Luthor under mind control is also illegal, and weak evidence due to it being an eyewitness account.

Luthor is getting off scot free unless they can catch him red handed, which he never is, or (and less definitely) with the paperwork in his office (and even that can be gotten out of).

RichardWhereat · Jun 23, 2019

Not necessarily inadmissible. It's always surprising how some people can just deny possibilities like it's set in stone that it cannot be.

Mquz · Jun 23, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
Not necessarily inadmissible. It's always surprising how some people can just deny possibilities like it's set in stone that it cannot be.

True, but this is Murphy's law, and the law of narrativium. It's a much better possible story if Luthor survives. He actually makes sense as a realistic villain and has a chance of becoming a productive member of society. Basically, the way he's written by Zoat, it'd take an act of author fiat to get rid of him.

Simonbob · Jun 23, 2019

Mquz said:
True, but this is Murphy's law, and the law of narrativium. It's a much better possible story if Luthor survives. He actually makes sense as a realistic villain and has a chance of becoming a productive member of society. Basically, the way he's written by Zoat, it'd take an act of author fiat to get rid of him.

Nah, it simply requires a different group to hit him.

The law, Lex can handle. Most supers? Them too.

If something else hits him in the right way, he might go 'Squish'.

There's also the idea of a 'Anti-Mafia' task force getting him, after a long investigation. That's possible too.

Ardy · Jun 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Very few people on Earth know about either instance of genocide.

Wait, there was a second genocide??? The citadelians were one, but there was another?

Damnit Paul, you were soo close, almost a whole 6 months without a mass murder!

Chaoswind · Jun 23, 2019

Ardy said:
Wait, there was a second genocide??? The citadelians were one, but there was another?

Damnit Paul, you were soo close, almost a whole 6 months without a mass murder!

The people whose religion/main god required women to be rendered blind when they reached marriage able age.

Ganurath · Jun 23, 2019

Chaoswind said:
The people whose religion/main god required women to be rendered blind when they reached marriage able age.

That's not genocide, that's theocide.

RichardWhereat · Jun 23, 2019

Ganurath said:
That's not genocide, that's theocide.

Oh no. He killed their religion, and a vast majority of their adherents who performed the stuff, or wanted to fight for that stuff.

Mr Zoat · Jun 23, 2019

1st February
22:34 GMT -5

"Frederick, I think you should think very carefully about-."

He fires the second barrel of his shotgun directly into Richard's chest, forcing him to brace himself slightly.

"The fuck are you?!"

"Now, Frederick, think it through. Why would the result-"

He turns to run, then trips over one of his net-entrapped colleagues.

"-be different the second time?"

Richard steps forward and handcuffs Frederick's ankles together before he can get back on his feet.

"You know, it used to be that when people shot at me I had to dodge."

"If you really miss it I could clone you a new body?"

He pantomimes thinking for a moment, then shakes his head. "Nah, I'm good."

"Uh uh uh!"

Frederick tries to get to his feet, trips, and-

"Uuuughfuckin'idiot!"

-thumps his bound colleague on the back, causing his face to smack into the pavement.

Richard winces in sympathy. "Okay, I'm calling this a mercy arrest." He effortlessly pulls Frederick's arms behind his back and cuffs him there as well. "Now, can you lie still or do I have to gas you?"

"Ah, excuse me?" A woman in Congregation uniform jogs down the road towards us. "Can I help?"

Richard nods. "I think we're freaking them out. Could you sit on them until the police get here?"

"Sure, I can do that! Just a sec." She closes her eyes and bows her head, then two other Congregationalists flash into being next to her. "Do they have any serious injuries?"

"Fuckin'idiotbrokem'fuckin'nose!"

"No, no they don't." I glance at Richard, but he doesn't appear concerned in any way. "Thank you for your assistance." I take a data stick out of subspace and put onto it a full recording of the period leading up to the 'fight', as well as the confrontation itself. "Please hand this over to the officer in charge."

She takes it. "Can do!" I nod, smile, and-. "Ah..?"

"Gotham police are well used to this sort of thing, it won't be-."

Richard walks forward with pen in hand as she pulls out a small notebook and holds it out towards him. "Who do I make it out to?"

"S-shannon?"

"Sure." He signs it and then turns to me. "Oh El?"

I take it, and… I've never been all that sure what to put on these. The few times a 'fan' gets me in a position where I feel obliged to do this I just sign 'Orange Lantern', but Shannon here is actually being a useful auxiliary. 'Thank you for your assistance, Illustres, Orange Lantern Corps'. I look at it for a moment. Yeah, that should do. I float the book and the data stick to Shannon and the pen back to Richard.

"Thankyou!"

I look over to Richard. "Want a lift-"

He crouches and then leaps, easily passing the third floor and landing on the roof.

"-up? Okay then."

I fly up after him, following as he begins to parkour across the rooftops.

"Are we expecting anything else to happen this evening?"

"Nah, not really. To be honest, things have gotten a lot quieter lately."

"Have they?"

"Yeah. I mean, Batman broke up the old families-"

"With a little help from Mr Dent."

"They were going down anyway. And once that happened, it was only a matter of time until City Hall and the police got cleaned out. Right now, we're seeing record low unemployment, so street crime's way down. Most of the 'theme criminals' are either in Arkham or Belle Reve."

"Not Blackgate?"

"No, the warden agreed that putting gangs with their bosses wasn't a great idea."

"Are the Congregation making themselves useful?"

"Yeah. They're so popular in Gotham now that it's almost like having a city-wide surveillance system. And they trust the police enough to actually contact them when they hear about something."

"No internal corruption?"

"Nothing substantial substantiated." We come to the end of the block and he accelerates, easily leaping from one side of the road to the other.

"You know you.. could just use a kinetic belt for that."

He lands in a roll, then springs to his feet again. "Sure, if I wanted to take all the fun out of this."

"How are things with your foster-mother?"

"It's…" He slows to a jog, then stops completely. "Well, my Arabic's getting better. She's… More… I think she's trying to Mom me, but she comes off more like she's conducting an interrogation."

"She did grow up in the League of Shadows. But I'm sure that your future brothers and/or sisters will be grateful to you for wearing down her rough edges."

"I'll remind them." He looks over the city rooftops for a moment, then turns back to me. "So. Zatanna's birthday?"

"Y.. es."

"Are you… Going..?"

"How is.. she.. doing?"

"Not all of us have your empathic vision, Oh El." He sighs quietly. "She seems… Okay? She's been spending more time with her school friends, and… Working on her stage act. She's going to be joining Mister Zatara on his next residency."

"That sounds… That sounds good?"

"She knows it wasn't going to work out. With you." I nod. "Was it.. the Star Sapphire, making her act like that?"

"No, it was Drakul Karfang making her act like that. But… No. I.. had some people check the wards on the staff. They weren't breached, and they were doing what they were meant to. But drawing on its power required that she focus on love. And she wasn't just doing that for the fight with Nabu, and she didn't stop afterwards. Every time she used magic, she was focusing on how much she.. loved me. Thinking about the things that made her love me."

"Kinda like how I ended up bulletproof."

"No, if.. she'd called the Predator, I'd be trapped in a block of violet crystal right now. But… Yes, it's a similar idea. The enchantments contained the corruption, not the normal psychological effects." I sigh. "But… I don't want her to think that she's completely alienated me. I still.. like her. I only-."

"You're only staying away because you want her to get better."

I nod. "I don't think… Maybe after the birthday party? Would that work?"

"I think she'd appreciate it."

"Then that's what I'll do. So… What's your uncle up to these days?"

Ganurath · Jun 23, 2019

...Is there such a thing as a foster stepmother?

DAT_NOOB · Jun 23, 2019

does this mean we're not gonna get psycotic magical girl on a killing spree?

Z000 · Jun 23, 2019

Ganurath said:
...Is there such a thing as a foster stepmother?

yes

not that weird

something people who adopt kid do get marry, so foster-step parent are a thing

Chojin Patriarch · Jun 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
He fires the second barrel of his shotgun directly into Richard's chest, forcing him to brace himself slightly.

Ah, bulletproof Robin. Always a shock to the criminals.

"The fuck are you?!"

...Bit too much in this case...

-thumps his bound colleague on the back, causing his face to smack into the pavement.

Seriously, this guy does not give up...

"Ah, excuse me?" A woman in Congregation uniform jogs down the road towards us. "Can I help?"

Oh yeah, these guys are a thing.

"No, no they don't." I glance at Richard, but he doesn't appear concerned in any way. "Thank you for your assistance." I take a data stick out of subspace and put a full recording of the period leading up to the 'fight', as well as the confrontation itself. "Please hand this over to the officer in charge."

So much handier than a simple bodycam.

Richard walks forward with pen in hand as she pulls out a small notebook and holds it out towards him. "Who do I make it out to?"

Dangit, OL, how did you miss that cue?

"Thankyou!"

I can just hear the squeeing fangirl tone of voice.

He crouches and then leaps, easily passing the third floor and landing on the roof.

Saves on bat-grapples, I suppose.

"They were going down anyway. And once that happened, it was only a matter of time until City Hall and the police got cleaned out. Right now, we're seeing record low unemployment, so street crime's way down. Most of the 'theme criminals' are either in Arkham or Belle Reve."

So, Gotham is pretty close to cleaned up. Barring new loonies.

"Nothing substantial substantiated." We comes to the end of the block and he accelerates, easily leaping from one side of the road to the other.

And he's still doing the dumb word thing. Total teenage boy.

"It's…" He slows to a jog, then stops completely. "Well, my Arabic's getting better. She's… More… I think she's trying to Mom me, but she comes off more like she's conducting an interrogation."

Lack of motherly experience. She'll learn.

"I'll remind them." He looks over the city rooftops for a moment, then turns back to me. "So. Zatanna's birthday?"

...Ulp.

"Not all of us have your empathic vision, Oh El." He sighs quietly. "She seems… Okay? She's been spending more time with her school friends, and… Working on her stage act. She's going to be joining Mister Zatara on his next residency."

I'm guessing that's a tour run? Or like a Vegas casino show season?

"No, if was Drakul Karfang making her act like that.

"No, it was Drakul Karfang making her act like that.

And she wasn't just doing that for the fight with Nabu, and she didn't stop afterwards. Every time she used magic, she was focusing on how much she.. loved me. Thinking about the things that made her love me."

It was always a bad idea. But it was a necessary bad idea.

"You're only staying away because you want her to get better."

Yeah, hanging around would be rubbing it in her face. Or maybe like an itchy scab...

Nice to see Robin again outside of the team missions. Good to see he's been getting used to powers.

Ace Dreamer · Jun 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Doppelgängered (part 3)

1st February
22:34 GMT -5

I guess we're trying to figure-out who or what has been 'doppelgangered' while waiting for the other shoe to drop... One of the more interesting use of 'doppelganger' is the The Merchant Princes books by Charles Stross, where it is a means of stopping bypassing physical security by using travel from a parallel Earth. But, Mr Zoat is a lot more sneaky than that, so I doubt it is anything like as simple a reference.

Handlewithcare · Jun 23, 2019

DAT_NOOB said:
does this mean we're not gonna get psycotic magical girl on a killing spree?

Aww

It would have been all like:

"I am Sailor Moon!...ALL WILL LOVE ME AND DESPAIR!"

Mr Zoat · Jun 23, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
"No, if was Drakul Karfang making her act like that.
"No, it was Drakul Karfang making her act like that.

Thank you, corrected.

Ngamer11 · Jun 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"Are the Congregation making themselves useful?"

Can you remind me again about the Alliance and the Congregation. Alliance = group of existing superheroes who were formed by a repentant former criminal. Congregation = group of people who train new heroes and are empowered by the Silver City or something? A bit of clarification please, if only because they seem like they will never be important later.

Mr Zoat · Jun 23, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
Can you remind me again about the Alliance and the Congregation. Alliance = group of existing superheroes who were formed by a repentant former criminal. Congregation = group of people who train new heroes and are empowered by the Silver City or something? A bit of clarification please, if only because they seem like they will never be important later.

That's a reasonable summary of what the SI knows about them.

In addition, a lot of the people signing up with the Alliance have very little experience.

Ganurath · Jun 23, 2019

Z000 said:
yes

not that weird

something people who adopt kid do get marry, so foster-step parent are a thing

Foster means something other than what you think it means. It's a "I'm not your parent, but I'm raising you anyway." situation. Might be they don't have parents. Might be that they do have parents, but those parents are bad enough that the government decides the kids aren't safe with them. Might be that they have parents, and the government doesn't mind them, but the kid runs off to some neighbors anyway because the kid minds, and all the adults involved agree that the neighbors could do a better job of it.

Yog · Jun 23, 2019

No, Paul, if Zatanna channeled Predator you wouldn't be in a crystal right now. The Earth would be a smoldering wreck after a fight between at least three (Predator, Best Snek and Ion) and possibly as many as five (Alan with the Blue and possibly the White Entity taking notice) Emotional Spectrum embodiments.

doug89 · Jun 23, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
He fires the second barrel of his shotgun directly into Richard's chest, forcing him to brace himself slightly.

"The fuck are you?!"

"Now, Frederick, think it through. Why would the result-"

He turns to run, then trips over one of his net-entrapped colleagues.

"-would be different the second time?"

Richard steps forward and handcuffs Frederick's ankles together before he can get back on his feet.

"You know, it used to be that when people shot at me I had to dodge."

That's a bad habit to get into Dick.

Ngamer11 · Jun 23, 2019

If the Congregation is full of devout Christians, do any of them feel some animosity for OL because of the Silver City's declaration for his death?

Mr Zoat · Jun 23, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
If the Congregation is full of devout Christians, do any of them feel some animosity for OL because of the Silver City's declaration for his death?

If the angels restored him to life, that's good enough for most of them.

Ardy · Jun 23, 2019

Ngamer11 said:
If the Congregation is full of devout Christians, do any of them feel some animosity for OL because of the Silver City's declaration for his death?

I was just thinking that. The silver city never recanted their statements on Paul basically being the anti-Christ, so why TF are they, or most people in general, working with him now?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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