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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

you act like you're ability to counteract him
you're -> your
in their sort term interest
sort -> short
Honesty. It's not just about friendship. ... the cost of temporary embarrassment or discomfort."
Missing opening quotation mark? Or maybe should not have one on the end?
and they're telling me that doing the wrong thing.
Seems incomplete...
 
"Mm, except, you see, you're… Not. Decades of Klarion not wrecking the world while Nelson left you on the shelf, and the moment you get a body again you act like you're ability to counteract him is suddenly super important

To be fair, that was after Klarion murdered close to a million people, so that would have made him anxious.

. You chose to become a helmet rather than do as nature intended and die

And tou became a god and started cosplaying as something you really shouldn't.

He strikes me as the sort to create a people of god-wizards who do whatever they like

That also kinda sounds like you.

To refresh your memory, after you tried to possess Giovanni Zatara, I turned you into a construct and left you in place as his-."

"Slave. Yes. I remember."

"Advisor and power source

Slave.

have before and they're telling me that doing the wrong thing. Besides, this me is Grayven with 'my' virtues shot into

'that I'm doing'
 
Oh, I'm sure he remembers quite well, Renegade. I doubt the process of assimilation was painless for him

He did seem to be in pain and struggling when he was speaking.

I'm sure a Lord of Order would know of the ultimate evil planet. Whether they'd object to its malign orderliness, that's a question and a half.

Darkseid did show up at Dream's funeral in the comics, so certain magical beings would be aware of him.

And yet you joined with the idiot in this lunatic plan, which has made lots of chaotic impacts on the world...

The guy was enslaved, killed and then brought back powerless.

I'd say that would mess anyone bad enough that they make stupid decisions.

And to be blunt, he's certainly not showing himself to be all that useful to anyone.

Except Ahri'ahn.

And if he does turn then he can be of pretty big help in future magical endeavors.
 
Not directly related, but have you seen the new "My Adventures with Superman" tv series Mr. Zoat? I'm surprised, but it's really good. First episode is on YouTube. It's the most genuinely upbeat and honest thing that's come out of DC in a good long while, and they really brought the character dynamic between Superman, Lois Lane, and Jimmy Olsen to the forefront while also having good action sequences. Feels like a modern serialized reimagining of the classic cartoons.

People are allready memeing tomboy Lois Lane and how the creators seems to have really wanted the relationship between Guts and Casca from Berserk to succeed - they look a lot alike. But it's also not at all surprising when she gets into trouble.

And they didn't even do the Harley Quinn comedy series thing here when they could have - they're taking it preety seriously.
 
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you're -> your
sort -> short
Missing opening quotation mark? Or maybe should not have one on the end?
Seems incomplete...
It still says "creatures structure". It should be creates, not creatures.
Thank you, corrected.
Not directly related, but have you seen the new "My Adventures with Superman" tv series Mr. Zoat? I'm surprised, but it's really good. First episode is on YouTube. It's the most genuinely upbeat and honest thing that's come out of DC in a good long while, and they really brought the character dynamic between Superman, Lois Lane, and Jimmy Olsen to the forefront while also having good action sequences. Feels like a modern serialized reimagining of the classic cartoons.

People are allready memeing tomboy Lois Lane and how the creators seems to have really wanted the relationship between Guts and Casca from Berserk to succeed - they look a lot alike. But it's also not at all surprising when she gets into trouble.

And they didn't even do the Harley Quinn comedy series thing here when they could have - they're taking it preety seriously.
Haven't watched it.

Edit: Oh, it's the one where they put Lois and Jimmy in blackface. Yeah, pass.
 
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Didn't Renegade eat or subvert 'real' Grayven a while back? The two merged directly and Paul won. That's why there's no other Grayven left - he was made Paul.

Gravy has Renegade's memories and soul.

Whether that makes him the same as Renegade is ship of theseus paradox naval gazing.

On the practical level, he is Renegade in every way that actually matters.
 
Not directly related, but have you seen the new "My Adventures with Superman" tv series Mr. Zoat? I'm surprised, but it's really good. First episode is on YouTube.
Thanks for the share.
First episode looks nice enough (not bad, but kinda too bland to be "good").
Seems worth watching for a few more episodes to see where it leads. I agree it's more interesting than the dark edgy "realism" we get in the cinematic DC universe.
 
Didn't Renegade eat or subvert 'real' Grayven a while back? The two merged directly and Paul won. That's why there's no other Grayven left - he was made Paul.
Nope, he lost that battle, but then Artemis shot Grayven with arrows till his metaphysic looked like Renegade.
 
Thank you, corrected.

Haven't watched it.

Edit: Oh, it's the one where they put Lois and Jimmy in blackface. Yeah, pass.
Eh, Jimmy's in black face. Lois is just tan / Latin. But sure, it's an annoying trend these days. I just personally don't care so long as they nail what each character should be about. Jimmy is excitable and young for once - he works well as a conspiracy theorist, Lois constantly puts herself in danger and has to be rescued by Superman. Clark is relatively weak to start, but has a deep inner strength and is emotionally vulnerable / kind of a dork.
 
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I don't care about it per se, but I've learned to recognise it as a warning sign.
A lot of recent writers seem to change red heads characters into black-skinned. It has become so common that it doesn't really tell anything, save it has been made in the recent years.

I guess it's seen as a way to change a visible minority into another to add representativity to an increasing part of the US population. IMHO it's also a lazy way to avoid creating new characters.
 
I don't care about it per se, but I've learned to recognise it as a warning sign.
Definitely is one, and they could fuck up with it easilly enough.

I'll just take my enjoyment where I can, and young adult intern Superman is the most refreshing take I've seen in years. As the other commenter said, it's not particularly exciting yet, but the action scenes in both episodes so far are well choreographed and have sold me on the show's versions on the characters. Tomboy Lois Lane is cute - and outside of black Jimmy there haven't really been any particular gestures towards diversity. It wears the anime inspiration on it's sleeve, and I like what I've seen so far.

I'm taking them going with
Task Force X
instead of Luthor as a first set of antagonists as a good sign too. We've got a young adult Superman not yet fully established in Metropolis and Luthor without the Superman obsession is just another relatively normal businessman.

I didn't really watch She-Ra - the all female cast held me back - but I heard good things, and they've seemingly got a lot of the writers and storyboarders from that - including as directors.
 
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I'm taking them going with
Task Force X
instead of Luthor as a first set of antagonists as a good sign too. We've got a young adult Superman not yet fully established in Metropolis and Luthor without the Superman obsession is just another relatively normal businessman
Plus there's whoever destroyed Krypton to consider.

I'm guessing it was either Apokalips, or maybe it was a civil war and Zod did it.

Honestly when I saw Jor-El with the eyepatch I was very worried that it may be something like a Saiyan situation.

Heck, maybe he wants Clark to fight against their destroyers since that speech he gave at the beginning sounded very violence oriented.
 
Pyrrhucy (supplementary, Renegade option)
14th February 2013
17:47 GMT -2


The corridor around us fades into the background as I-.

Huh. Maybe using absolute truth in an area halfway to the Dream wasn't such a good idea? I really just wanted him to talk-.

Lie.

Nabu fades from my grip in the same way that the world has, and… I see… Ideas, linked together. Some close, some distant, and there's a sort of… Membrane? Linking them? Sunset would probably know what it is.

Attend.

But the big orange glowing.. burning idea right in front of me feels unimpressed.

"Alright, I want a lot of things from him, but most of them would be satisfied by him talking openly and honestly about why he did what he did. I don't even hate him enough to want him to fall on his face. Ah, not as a matter of policy. Obviously I'd laugh at a pratfall, but as long as his… Malforming of my civilisation stops I'd be satisfied."

Truth.

Things come back into focus slightly. Luna, the corridor, Nabu stepping away from me-.

"Hey!"

Attend.

"What? Ah. I don't really feel even slightly grateful about Nabu setting me against the Justice League. I just intellectually realised that him doing that made breaking up with them psychologically easier later on. I really just associate him with getting angry."

Truth. Attend.

"What? I physically can't tell you my original name. At this point I'm as much-. I'm about as much Grayven as I can be without having been the original one, to the best of my knowledge."

Excuse.

"I mean, I could probably work around it. Let someone know. Is that what you want? There's no documentation with it on this Earth, and… Frankly, I don't think that anyone on my original Earth would connect me to the person I used to be. At this point I'm... More Grayven than I am who I was."

Truth.

"Is this working up to me saying 'I am Grayven' and actually meaning it?"

No. Attend.

I stop trying to work out what's happening back in reality… Or 'reality', and focus on Honesty itself. Or Truth? There's quite a lot of overlap, but a person can be dishonest without being untruthful.

No, come on. I just gave this speech.

Reality fades away completely as I picture the perfect empire that lies within my soul. Is my soul. The conceptual lights move around it, taking up their rightful place in its metaphysical structures. Perfect and impossible, like the Source itself. I will never create this empire; I cannot. No one can. That's the thing about ideal forms.

And yeah, there's the palace, and the high court, and the light of truth shining from them both and making that happen must be a full time job-.

"Yes, obviously I'd like to make that happen. But I'm not God-King of Earth. I'm only Suzerain because Darkseid finds it funny. Or… Something. Are you asking for me to make a point of including you? Because I have sort of thought about openly using truth compulsion in legal processes, like the Atlanteans…"

Huh.

"Did."

I consider how the concept of truth would relate to this situation.

"Guess you're pretty annoyed, huh?"

Lies.

"I was going to fix it anyway-."

Lies.

I look at the perfected empire again.

"Yeah, no. I get it. No using the Dream to cheat. It's a process, an end you're never supposed to reach. Something to make you want to do better than whatever you're doing. I'm not going to cheapen my own soul with shortcuts."

"yAAAGH!"

The perfect empire fades into… It's still there, but it's slightly out of focus. Nabu swims back into focus, only now he's fighting with… Someone? A figure made of the golden order-magic he usually uses, is holding him by the throat. A smooth and featureless face looks down at him and I can feel the contempt. Nabu himself appears to be having some sort of fit, spasming… It's not that he's being throttled, it's… Something else? I don't know what's going on in his head.

"Nabu, this is a test of honesty! Whatever you said to wind it up, take it back!"

"No!"

"It's your neck. You know that I'm perfectly happy for you to die. But the one constant in all your problems is you, and… Looks like whatever that is agrees with me."

"It's me."

I frown. "That's what Cilians look like?"

"It is when they ascend to a state of pure Order! But for you, it is the form I would still occup-guh!"

The glowing figure keeps its upper arms around his neck and shoves the lower ones into his abdomen!

"It doesn't like lying, Nabu. You're ancient. What's so bad that you won't admit it?"

"It's you, those like you! Do you understand what it feels like to have a body after spending centuries as a being of pure arcane Order?"

"… Nice?"

"Horrifying! Revolting! And so… Right! To have touch again, to feel the air on my skin! You cannot understand it until you have denied it to yourself!"

I frown. "Wouldn't you have gone a bit peculiar without it, if it was that big a deal to you?"

"When I had my own body I taught myself to ignore it! But once I transcended, maintaining that discipline seemed… Pointless. How could flesh compete with the purity of Order?"

"Really, really easily." Huh. "Okay, you made a bad decision and then got hooked. I'm actually a little sympathetic -just a little- but I'm also hurt by your ingratitude. I got you a body back. And you could probably have worked out an indirect way to use Order magic if you needed that as well. Why are you working with Ahri'ahn?"

"Because I'm weak! I wanted..! I want both, and in the Dream I can have both!"

The glowing golden figure tosses him to the ground, as the Venturian corridor fades back into being.

I watch him as he lays on the floor, trying to regain his comportment.

"You know…" I hold out my arm as Luna steps closer to remove the lasso. "There's no reason for you to stay here. People have physically entered the Dream before. When we win, you can petition Morpheus."

"No." He shakes his head. "That wasn't just a Cilian. That was… Me. I refuse to be this weak. I will aid you, and then I will enter a hermitage and I will not emerge until I have reached equanimity. One way or the other."

I nod. "Alright then. So what's Ahri'ahn up to?"

"World domination. Naturally."
 
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"It doesn't like lying, Nabu. You're ancient. What's so bad that you won't admit it?"

"It's you, those like you! Do you understand what it feels like to have a body after spending centuries as a being of pure arcane Order?"

"… Nice?"

"Horrifying! Revolting! And so… Right! To have touch again, to feel the air on my skin! You cannot understand it until you have denied it to yourself!"

I frown. "Wouldn't you have gone a bit peculiar without it, if it was that big a deal to you?"

"When I had my own body I taught myself to ignore it! But once I transcended, maintaining that discipline seemed… Pointless. How could flesh compete with the purity of Order?"

"Really, really easily." Huh. "Okay, you made a bad decision and then got hooked. I'm actually a little sympathetic -just a little- but I'm also hurt by your ingratitude. I got you a body back. And you could probably have worked out an indirect way to use Order magic if you needed that as well. Why are you working with Ahri'ahn?"

"Because I'm weak! I wanted..! I want both, and in the Dream I can have both!"

The glowing golden figure tosses him to the ground, as the Venturian corridor fades back into being.

I watch him as he lays on the floor, trying to regain his comportment.

"You know…" I hold out my arm as Luna steps closer to remove the lasso. "There's no reason for you to stay here. People have physically entered the Dream before. When we win, you can petition Morpheus."

"No." He shakes his head. "That wasn't just a Cilian. That was… Me. I refuse to be this weak. I will aid you, and then I will enter a hermitage and I will not emerge until I have reached equanimity. One way or the other."

I nod. "Alright then. So what's Ahri'ahn up to?"

"World domination. Naturally."
That went far better than I thought it would. Also, that's an interesting explanation for Nabu's actions. Considering Ahri'ahn is going for the classic world domination play, I hope Atlantis won't receive too big a sanction after all of this is over.
 
New Superman is kind of a cute show so far. Though I think Lois is meant to be some form of Southeast or East Asian. I feel like when they racebend her, it's usually in an Asian direction.

And yeah, for the earlier talk of Grayven's actual state of being . . . The Paul pretending to be Grayven was either absorbed by or fused with the actual Grayven. The actual Grayven had a much stronger will, or much more life experience, and won whatever struggle there might have been to determine who got to be the guiding intelligence. Then, though a bit contrived, Artemis used deus ex god arrows to blast Grayven with the ideals/personality traits of Paul and somehow this suppressed the real Grayven's mind and allowed Paul to take over.
 
14th February 2013
17:47 GMT -2


The corridor around us fades into the background as I-.

Huh. Maybe using absolute truth in an area halfway to the Dream wasn't such a good idea? I really just wanted him to talk-.
Yes, when what's 'real' is malleable, any sufficiently strong vision can overwrite it. Hopefully Ahri'ahn doesn't notice this. As for you, Renegade... Might be time to stop playing around and be real.

Lie.

Nabu fades from my grip in the same way that the world has, and… I see… Ideas, linked together. Some close, some distant, and there's a sort of… Membrane? Linking them? Sunset would probably know what it is.
Oh, very trippy. But not what you should be paying attention to, Renegade.

Attend.

But the big orange glowing.. burning idea right in front of me feels unimpressed.
Indeed. Time to stop sightseeing and start talking.

"Alright, I want a lot of things from him, but most of them would be satisfied by him talking openly and honestly about why he did what he did. I don't even hate him enough to want him to fall on his face. Ah, not as a matter of policy. Obviously I'd laugh at a pratfall, but as long as his… Malforming of my civilisation stops I'd be satisfied."

Truth.
A fairly simple ask. 'Don't be a dick about things' is always a good idea.

Things come back into focus slightly. Luna, the corridor, Nabu stepping away from me-.

"Hey!"
Don't worry about him, Renegade. He is no doubt having his own chat with something.

Attend.

"What? Ah. I don't really feel even slightly grateful about Nabu setting me against the Justice League. I just intellectually realised that him doing that made breaking up with them psychologically easier later on. I really just associate him with getting angry."
He does tend to have that effect on some folks, doesn't he?

Truth. Attend.

"What? I physically can't tell you my original name. At this point I'm as much-. I'm about as much Grayven as I can be without having been the original one, to the best of my knowledge."
More so, really. Basically a foreign mind sitting in Grayven's skull, technically.

Excuse.

"I mean, I could probably work around it. Let someone know. Is that what you want? There's no documentation with it on this Earth, and… Frankly, I don't think that anyone on my original Earth would connect me to the person I used to be. At this point I'm... More Grayven than I am who I was."
And that's something of a terrible thing to have to admit to yourself, isn't it? That you just aren't you anymore...

Truth.

"Is this working up to me saying 'I am Grayven' and actually meaning it?"
I mean... If the size twenty boot fits...

No. Attend.

I stop trying to work out what's happening back in reality… Or 'reality', and focus on Honesty itself. Or Truth? There's quite a lot of overlap, but a person can be dishonest without being untruthful.
And you're probably lucky it isn't slapping you for having that kind of silly digression with yourself.

No, come on. I just gave this speech.

Reality fades away completely as I picture the perfect empire that lies within my soul. Is my soul. The conceptual lights move around it, taking up their rightful place in its metaphysical structures. Perfect and impossible, like the Source itself. I will never create this empire; I cannot. No one can. That's the thing about ideal forms.
It's merely a dream of what could be. The thing you want to work towards. Inspiration, which is one aspect of the Dreaming, after all.

And yeah, there's the palace, and the high court, and the light of truth shining from them both and making that happen must be a full time job-.

"Yes, obviously I'd like to make that happen. But I'm not God-King of Earth. I'm only Suzerain because Darkseid finds it funny. Or… Something. Are you asking for me to make a point of including you? Because I have sort of thought about openly using truth compulsion in legal processes, like the Atlanteans…"
He probably intends to use it as a taunting example to his other sons. "This mortal is a mere copy of one of you, and yet he has become better at it than you."

Huh.

"Did."

I consider how the concept of truth would relate to this situation.
Depends on how it sees people 'using' it that way.

"Guess you're pretty annoyed, huh?"

Lies.
As in, what the Renegade said was a lie? You're not annoyed? Or are you saying his show of empathy is false?

"I was going to fix it anyway-."

Lies.
Yeah, I can't see you passing up something that useful.

I look at the perfected empire again.

"Yeah, no. I get it. No using the Dream to cheat. It's a process, an end you're never supposed to reach. Something to make you want to do better than whatever you're doing. I'm not going to cheapen my own soul with shortcuts."
Exactly. And that truth is more telling than anything else you've said thus far.

"yAAAGH!"

The perfect empire fades into… It's still there, but it's slightly out of focus. Nabu swims back into focus, only now he's fighting with… Someone? A figure made of the golden order-magic he usually uses, is holding him by the throat. A smooth and featureless face looks down at him and I can feel the contempt. Nabu himself appears to be having some sort of fit, spasming… It's not that he's being throttled, it's… Something else? I don't know what's going on in his head.
Something about it may be burning at the naturally chaotic nature of organic being.

"Nabu, this is a test of honesty! Whatever you said to wind it up, take it back!"

"No!"
Not the time to be a dick about things, blondie.

"It's your neck. You know that I'm perfectly happy for you to die. But the one constant in all yours problems is you, and… Looks like whatever that is agrees with me."

"It's me."
Huh, talk about self-loathing. :p

I frown. "That's what Cilians look like?"

"It is when they ascend to a state of pure Order! But for you, it is the form I would still occup-guh!"
No, you earned what happened to you, Nabu. Stop trying to blame others.

The glowing figure keeps its upper arms around his neck and shove the lower ones into his abdomen!

"It doesn't like lying, Nabu. You're ancient. What's so bad that you won't admit it?"
And can he bear to say it, I wonder?

"It's you, those like you! Do you understand what it feels like to have a body after spending centuries as a being of pure arcane Order?"

"… Nice?"
There are perks, yes.

"Horrifying! Revolting! And so… Right! To have touch again, to feel the air on my skin! You cannot understand it until you have denied it to yourself!"

I frown. "Wouldn't you have gone a bit peculiar without it, if it was that big a deal to you?"
Like an addict, offered a sniff of his obsession...

"When I had my own body I taught myself to ignore it! But once I transcended, maintaining that discipline seemed… Pointless. How could flesh compete with the purity of Order?"

"Really, really easily." Huh. "Okay, you made a bad decision and then got hooked. I'm actually a little sympathetic -just a little- but I'm also hurt by your ingratitude. I got you a body back. And you could probably have worked out an indirect way to use Order magic if you needed that as well. Why are you working with Ahri'ahn?"
So, torn between the ideal of Order and the chaotic addictions of flesh. Yes, I can see that being a problem.

"Because I'm weak! I wanted..! I want both, and in the Dream I can have both!"

The glowing golden figure tosses him to the ground, as the Venturian corridor fades back into being.
See, now, Nabu? Was that so painful to admit?

I watch him as he lays on the floor, trying to regain his comportment.

"You know…" I hold out my arm as Luna steps closer to remove the lasso. "There's no reason for you to stay here. People have physically entered the Dream before. When we win, you can petition Morpheus."
Assuming Morpheus would tolerate the presence of someone who's done something like this.

"No." He shakes his head. "That wasn't just a Cilian. That was… Me. I refuse to be this weak. I will aid you, and then I will enter a hermitage and I will not emerge until I have reached equanimity. One way or the other."

I nod. "Alright then. So what's Ahri'ahn up to?"

"World domination. Naturally."
...Damn, BR549 beat me to the classic video. :V

Well, that's somewhat disappointing of Ahri'ahn. You'd expect him to have a loftier goal than simply 'Rule the world!' Then again, it comes down to how he intends to rule. Conquest by force of Atlantean armies? Present an example of cultural superiority? Simply expand his bubble of fantasy until the whole world falls under his control? Fortunately, each method has its counters...
 
I'm a little confused here. I thought Nabu becoming a Lord of Order resulted in him being a helmet (that always seemed like a major design flaw in the ascension). He had an actual body as Lord of Order once upon a time?
 
I'm a little confused here. I thought Nabu becoming a Lord of Order resulted in him being a helmet (that always seemed like a major design flaw in the ascension). He had an actual body as Lord of Order once upon a time?

He had an actual body once upon a time as a Cilian. When he ascended he did become a helmet, we even see the burial place where I think his mortal remains are, when the Illustres was investigating him.

If you mean the representation of Truth that was fighting Nabu with the form of his previous mortal body, that's just Dream shenanigans, I believe.
 
New Superman is kind of a cute show so far. Though I think Lois is meant to be some form of Southeast or East Asian. I feel like when they racebend her, it's usually in an Asian direction.

The voice actress is Korean American.

Considering Jimmy is voiced by an African American, you're probably right.
 

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