With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[jasonh23761]

I'd love to see a scene where either SGC is reacting to this team's report or meeting Paul in person and getting some uncomfortable suggestions like the justice league.

That's not a sargeant. SG squad leaders are majors at the minimum. That sort of work requires too much mental flexibility to be left to noncoms.

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In retrospect, it's odd the USG wasn't using a setup like the ODA's, where you've got a team of 6-12 with a Captain as a team lead, a Warrant Officer as a team second and then a mix of guys with 5-10 years of experience at least for the most part. You'd figure they'd pull something experience heavy for something like this, the idea of the other branches letting AFSOC, let alone Air Force regulars, mostly monopolize something like this is kind of silly.

Ah, yes, one of the more awkward parts of the Stargate program : the US military monopolizing it in order to get a leg up on the other countries, even though it should by all rights be a joint effort involving the entire UN. Aren't there a bunch of treaties stating that the universe beyond Earth belongs to all of mankind, not to any one nation, and didn't the US and USSR once sign a pact saying that they would fight side by side in the event of an alien invasion ?

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Honestly, those sorts of treaties aren't worth the paper they're written on without some sort of monitoring and enforcement mechanism, something no major sovereign nation will consent to without some sort of proven external threat of near existential level.

IIRC, SG1 was what, early 2000s? Would any member of the P5 allow one of the other members to gain influence over them like that in that timeframe, let alone 20 years before or after?

The possibility of an organization like XCOM existing at the supranational level (that wasn't just something like CTRG from Arma 3) was always one of those things I had to suspend my disbelief over just to be able to play.

Although honestly, the idea of XCOM as a sort of UN Security Council backed hit squad that was hurriedly re-tasked to fight aliens would be pretty funny.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I'd love to see a scene where either SGC is reacting to this team's report or meeting Paul in person and getting some uncomfortable suggestions like the justice league.

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It's the nineties, and while orange power rings did make a brief appearence in earlier comics, the War of Light saga won't start until 2008. And goa'uld use glowing orange things in their technology anyway. Even if one of them was an avid comic reader it's unlikely that they would make the connection, other than in a non-serious 'kinda like Green Lantern' sort of way.

 

[Steelplaza]

Kind of weird that none of the team introduced themselves so the SI is just left referring to them as "the squad leader" and such.

 

[Ngamer11]

Kind of weird that none of the team introduced themselves so the SI is just left referring to them as "the squad leader" and such.

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Considering they most likely consider Mammon a potential threat, why would they give him any info he could possibly use against them?

 

[Bolo]

Isn't Paul looking for tech and possibly Home? I would think asking for More than teachers would help him.
Unless he's trying to prove him self to be a "safe" trading partner before asking for more.
Maybe a trip to Earth to talk more while he scans the computers? Other interesting places the SGC may have encountered.
Either way it's a nice first step…..

 

[jasonh23761]

It's the nineties, and while orange power rings did make a brief appearence in earlier comics, the War of Light saga won't start until 2008. And goa'uld use glowing orange things in their technology anyway. Even if one of them was an avid comic reader it's unlikely that they would make the connection, other than in a non-serious 'kinda like Green Lantern' sort of way.

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It was more of a, "he has suggestions for them and poking holes in their procedures," not so much them recognizing the Power Ring for what it is.

 

[hance1986]

It's the nineties, and while orange power rings did make a brief appearence in earlier comics, the War of Light saga won't start until 2008. And goa'uld use glowing orange things in their technology anyway. Even if one of them was an avid comic reader it's unlikely that they would make the connection, other than in a non-serious 'kinda like Green Lantern' sort of way.

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No. When Paul fought and beat the Justice League from the cartoon during the Crime Syndicate arc at sone point there was a meeting chapter where the Justice League had a meeting breaking down how Paul whooped them. Diana as a Amazon warrior was pissed about it. Then at the end of that meeting Batman came in and said Paul Wynne was their universe's version of the Orange Lantern.

So a meeting at Stargate Command with the SG team who interacted with Mammon and General Hammond and Jack O'Neill and Daniel Jackson talking about all they saw and heard and how a snake is playing things cool but knows specifically what the USA is and that the SG team came from there could be interesting.

I mean half of the Stargate shows were the meetings and debriefings anyway.

 

[BartlettMagic]

Mammon had one in his vaults. Exposure to it is what made him flip out and betray Ra in the first place.

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so putting one over on the world's inhabitants is one thing, but how is the SI able to just exist within the goa'uld societal framework? wouldn't it be suspicious that Mammon all of a sudden shows up after years of absence? its been a very long time since i've watched SG1, so i may just be missing something obvious. i know there's no expectation that Mammon have the same body he did previously, but you'd think other goa'uld would pick up on him not actually being a goa'uld pretty quickly, especially if he was formerly crazed and flipping out on Ra before. are they assuming he's a surviving descendant of the original Mammon goa'uld or...?

otherwise, i'm enjoying this crossover. its made me contemplate a rewatch honestly.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Kind of weird that none of the team introduced themselves so the SI is just left referring to them as "the squad leader" and such.

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Considering they most likely consider Mammon a potential threat, why would they give him any info he could possibly use against them?

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Yes. This isn't a random world where they're trying to make friends with the local tribes. This is hostile territory and they're talking to a low ranked memeber of the enemy species.

Isn't Paul looking for tech and possibly Home? I would think asking for More than teachers would help him.

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He's reasonably sure that the film Stargate isn't some sort of psi-op, so Earth isn't really 'home'.

Unless he's trying to prove him self to be a "safe" trading partner before asking for more.

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That too.

Maybe a trip to Earth to talk more while he scans the computers? Other interesting places the SGC may have encountered.

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That isn't information they're going to want to share with a goa'uld. Once an outline agreement has been made he could ask to meet with someone senior in the SGC to finalise things, so then, maybe, but the computers they have are a lot less advanced that what goa'uld have.

 

[BartlettMagic]

also: has the SI scanned the Stargate itself? seems like more detailed gate info would be a good trading chip to work with. he's had plenty of time.

 

[Mr Zoat]

It was more of a, "he has suggestions for them and poking holes in their procedures," not so much them recognizing the Power Ring for what it is.

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Oh! Right, with you. They did actually have an episode where people threw themselves at the iris because the fortress they had their stargate in was under siege and they had that one gate address. Since there was no way for the people on their side to know what happened to the people they sent through and since they were going to die anyway, they kept trying.

so putting one over on the world's inhabitants is one thing, but how is the SI able to just exist within the goa'uld societal framework? wouldn't it be suspicious that Mammon all of a sudden shows up after years of absence?

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A bit, but Apophis did the same with with Sokar. Everyone thought he was dead, but it turned out that Sokar just tortured him for a bit then gave him a crap job.

its been a very long time since i've watched SG1, so i may just be missing something obvious. i know there's no expectation that Mammon have the same body he did previously, but you'd think other goa'uld would pick up on him not actually being a goa'uld pretty quickly, especially if he was formerly crazed and flipping out on Ra before. are they assuming he's a surviving descendant of the original Mammon goa'uld or...?

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They haven't picked up on it yet because he's been admitting that he fucked up and wants to change his ways -they only thing he could say when talking to a potential new boss- and he's been wearing a personal force field.

also: has the SI scanned the Stargate itself? seems like more detailed gate info would be a good trading chip to work with. he's had plenty of time.

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Yes, but the result was 'I have no idea what any of that does'. He could probably make a new one, but he doesn't trust that enough to risk it.

 

[Rafin]

He got sacked while I've still got a job.

He's probably harder working than I am, if only because his efforts have observable effects on the world around him.

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Shut me down if this isn't s getting too personal, but are you saying that the last ten years didn't have much of an effect on your personality and that ruling backwards nation with a magic ring for over a decade while constantly pretending to be a god wouldn't either?

I actually wanted to ask, since all this writing involves you putting "yourself" in novel situations, whether you feel like you learned a lot about yourself through this daily project of yours this past decade. And I was curious whether writing new 2013 SIs gets harder since they are all people who haven't committed to a decade of writing chapters to a fickle audience, and whatever other life changing experiences you had since IRL 2013.

He doesn't have much of a routine. He heads up his people's research and development effort and has to do the diplomacy that allows them to trade with their goa'uld-controlled neighbours, so what he actually does on a particular day depends on what needs doing.

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But that's work. He still has interpersonal relationships, R&R, daily breakfast and dinner, meditation sessions and so on and so forth, no?

No. It would be a risk, and they'd probably be either a devotee or another goa'uld and there are problems with both ideas.

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So did he turn down his libido like the original Paragon SI and never look back or what?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Shut me down if this isn't s getting too personal, but are you saying that the last ten years didn't have much of an effect on your personality and that ruling backwards nation with a magic ring for over a decade while constantly pretending to be a god wouldn't either?

I actually wanted to ask, since all this writing involves you putting "yourself" in novel situations, whether you feel like you learned a lot about yourself through this daily project of yours this past decade. And I was curious whether writing new 2013 SIs gets harder since they are all people who haven't committed to a decade of writing chapters to a fickle audience, and whatever other life changing experiences you had since IRL 2013.

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A bit, yes. My main difference is that I'm a good deal more conservative than I used to be, but European politics don't really map onto anything in System Lord controlled space.

But that's work. He still has interpersonal relationships, R&R, daily breakfast and dinner, meditation sessions and so on and so forth, no?

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Yes, but his personal relationships aren't very personal. He's a god who can walk around. His people are less nervous now, because he's established a role for himself and for them, but there genuinely isn't anyone that he's emotionally close to.

So did he turn down his libido like the original Paragon SI and never look back or what?

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[Ardy]

A bit, yes. My main difference is that I'm a good deal more conservative than I used to be, but European politics don't really map onto anything in Stsyem Lord controlled space.

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....... I'm assuming in a social sense, less outgoing, otherwise we run afoul of rule 8.

 

[Valint]

so putting one over on the world's inhabitants is one thing, but how is the SI able to just exist within the goa'uld societal framework? wouldn't it be suspicious that Mammon all of a sudden shows up after years of absence? its been a very long time since i've watched SG1, so i may just be missing something obvious.

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Two of the major series antagonists were goa'uld that were thought dead thousands of years ago, and then just showed up again one day.

SG1 also tripped over more than few goa'uld who were thought dead, but had either been imprisoned or just chilling in their sarcophagus. Defeated goa'uld being imprisoned rather than executed was common enough that they literally had standard tech specifically for that.

All of which is to say that Mammon showing back up after a few years' absence isn't that remarkable.

It was a plot point in one episode that goa'uld don't have some special way of sensing each other's identity: a Tok'ra was extracted and replaced with another goa'uld, and the Tok'ra couldn't tell the difference.

The general fan consensus seems to be that it's mostly apathy, that goa'uld don't really give any fucks if someone pretends to be someone else, as long as they have the power to back it up. (I vaguely remember some incident where a goa'uld killed or was planning on killing their sire, and then pretending to be him, but for all I know, I'm remembering something from fanfic.)

After all, it's not like Paul is showing up trying to call in debts owed to Mammon or otherwise doing anything that depends on him being Mammon. It's entirely possible that some of the goa'uld he's dealing with think that he's lying, that he's just one of Mammon's underlings trading on the name.

Goa'uld questioning whether Paul is actually a goa'uld at all is a more serious issue--WoZ is that the goa'uld he's interacting with think the reason he's not detecting as a goa'uld to their senses is the force field, but the more people he interacts with, the greater the chance that he runs into someone that's thinking outside the box.

 

[Steelplaza]

Considering they most likely consider Mammon a potential threat, why would they give him any info he could possibly use against them?

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I dunno, but I feel like on the television show SG1 would not go two minutes without introducing themselves, and like all of these stories I judge it by "how do they actually do it in the fiction" not "what would I objectively think was a good idea".

(I know these guys aren't SG1 but presumably they would behave more or less the same.)

 

[Yargoth]

Personal theory regarding goauld ability to detect other goauld:

It is known that the goauld ability to detect other goauld is based on sensing the naquada in others blood. And a lot of goauld technology is naquada powered.
I think that unless they are basically touching each other, goauld would not be able to determine if someone else is a goauld (or jaffa) purely from this sense if that someone was wearing/carrying/wielding naquada powered equipment, (or just generally exposed to low level naquada radiation?). They would sense naquada from their person/direction, but would not be able to tell the minute ammounts of naquada in the blood from the higher amount of naquada in the equipment.
And since most goauld wear naquada gear quite regularly (perhaps even some naquada alloy in their jewellry?) they would not regard it as odd, and use they voice and eye trick to confirm their status as goauld too each other.

I do not recall any time in the series were this sense is used to determine if someone allready using goauld tech, wasnt a goauld. Please give an example of when, if this is incorrect.

(Edit: ) So carry something naquada based, make your eyes glow, and shift your voice, and i think you would be able too fool most goauld.

 

[Duke Long]

anywhere in the Middle East,

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Holy smokes, what a fucking name. Though it would seem more fitting for an Ireland stereotype.

"You don't… Live.. long. Not.. anything like as long as we do." She crouches down, bring her face closer to mine.

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'bringing'
I liked this conversation. Not very familiar with Transformers, but I like the culture clash (though I suppose it's more inherent psychology than culture).

I don't mind-. Nebulan synthetic organs.

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'Nebulon'?

It tries to bite him, but the hope holds it tight. "I wonder if it's more intelligent than the beast we all assumed it to be."

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'rope'?

It's grip on Earth is dispelled. Heck, I thought it would be back once we dealt with the Aztecs."

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'Its'?

I wave my right hand, releasing Gary and a couple of construct lantern aliens.

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I though the needed a little ring power to do that. Is it because he's releasing them directly from the lantern rather than a ring?

My construct lanterns on the other hand can assimilate things just fine on their own, but since I can't boost them, they're stuck using either their mouths, or in Gary's case even slower fungal growths.

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Woohoo, assimilation! I like that Gary has his own way of eating.

"Wait. I just realised something." He keep watching the immortal hydra head, as the blood drips back into its wounds and the eyes reknit themselves.

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'keeps'

"I need to lose this death aura thing to make my rings work again. And we need to do something to Akhlys to break her connection to the Anti-Life. The easiest way to do that involved manipulating the Dream."

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'involves'?

Bastet removes the stopper from the bottle and cautiously sniffs to contents.

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'the contents'?

Eventually she waves her servers off, lounging more languidly on her chaise lounge.

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'chaise longue'? I got some conflicting results from searching.

"Your merge wares are of adequate quality."

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Not sure if I'm failing to understand this or there's an error.

Faking his death to see what happens doesn't sound like something as concerned for appearances as most goa'uld would do.

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I think this sentence is missing something.

While in theory I could use that as an opportunity to acquire ships for myself -I've mocked up a capital ship style shield and breaking through it with a power ring isn't that difficult- that would probably just make me a target unless I have somewhere to hide them.

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'ship-style'?

Right. He has no reason to think that I am who I am. But-. Happy as I am see them I don't know for sure that they come from Earth as opposed to a different advanced human world. The goa'uld don't rule everywhere that humans live, after all.

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'to see them'

It is indeed a train. Some goa'uld allow their people to have steam engines for various tasks, not wanted to go to the bother of arranging a logistics train for a more advanced type of engine or motor.

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'not wanting'?

It's not even -technically- a forbidden technology. Humans in goa'uld space use more advanced machines that that all the time. The issue is that I've taught people how it works.

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'than that'

They lower their hands "Lord Mammon, was your journey successful?"

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Missing full stop.

"No, I'll take then to the palace myself. As you were."

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'them'

"Ah, I've got plenty, I just don't want the other finding out about my actual source. Sure, I can trade you what I'll be getting from Am-heh."

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'others'?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'bringing'
'Nebulon'?
'rope'?
'Its'?
'keeps'
'involves'?
'the contents'?
'chaise longue'? I got some conflicting results from searching.
Not sure if I'm failing to understand this or there's an error.
I think this sentence is missing something.
'ship-style'?
'to see them'
'not wanting'?
'than that'
Missing full stop.
'them'
'others'?

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Thank you, corrected.

I though the needed a little ring power to do that. Is it because he's releasing them directly from the lantern rather than a ring?

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He's got ring power, it just won't respond to him because it thinks he's dead.

 

[RoninSword]

An hour later
I smile. "Finally annoyed you, did I? You aren't obliged to call me that, but... Look. We're flying over a city that worships me in a bubble I created as an act of will.

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Act of avarice? Unless he's just using a turn of phrase and not being literal.

 

[Ardy]

He's got ring power, it just won't respond to him because it thinks he's dead.

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Oh come on, if there's a sentient math equation green lantern surely there's been a zombie one too. This is just embarrassing for Hinon.

 

[Wivk]

I still find it funny that there was a time where God actually had a wife and Queen in the form of Asherah and that she's still actually mentioned in the Old Testament and Torah is a handful of spots the editors missed.

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Do you happen to know any off the top of your head I could look into further without manually skimming through all of it? I'm interested in learning a bit more, but not THAT interested.

 

[BrotherofaStudio]

Paul god of trade? Interesting.
There has also been the Renegade who took on the mantle of Grayven god of conquest and a future Paul who was God of Ambition. Am I missing any?
Is there any possibility of a Paul who is a genuine god and part of a pantheon? And if so, what would he be the god of?

 

[Stsword]

Oh come on, if there's a sentient math equation green lantern surely there's been a zombie one too. This is just embarrassing for Hinon.

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Well considering he's a Green Lantern I'd equate him more with a Lich than a zombie- Driq of Criq.

Spoiler

Killed by Sinestro and the Mad God, somehow a little thing like being dead didn't stop him from continuing to work.

But then again it's DC comics, so letting being dead stop you is for lazy people.

 

[Mr Zoat]

30th March 2013
01:33 GMT +2?

I can smell the floral scent of its trees before I see the river separating the proletarian afterlife from the Elysian Fields. Now that I think about it… It strikes me as a little odd that Hades' palace isn't there. The Silver City isn't located in Purgatory or Dis, it's in Heaven. But Hades' palace is closer to the Punishment Fields than to the final destination of the most legendarily heroic souls in Greek mythology.

Zagreus and I are flying there on two construct lantern hydra heads. I was worried that they wouldn't obey me, but we don't appear to be having a problem as long as the construct lantern who assimilated them issues the orders. I haven't gained their knowledge as yet, but once my rings are back in working order I can just destroy one manually to get that. I should at least be able to tell Donna the truth of Herakles' fight with it.

"Are we sure that I'm allowed in here?"

"Father seriously considered sending you here when you die just to keep you out of the way."

"I don't think I'd be happy here. Not enough problems to fix."

"You would experience as many problems as you wanted."

"But not real ones."

"But you wouldn't care unless you wanted-. Ah." He shakes his head. "I underestimated how task-focused you are. Why didn't you take Hephaestus as your main patron rather than Eris?"

"Differentiation. There are plenty of other superheroes who are hard-working. There aren't a lot who fundamentally change civilisation. Or…" I frown as I consider the last couple of years. I mean, I tried, but Mannheim and Tenebrae both outstripped me. Proving that it's easier to destroy than create, I suppose. "Superman might, if we can stop having disasters for five minutes and he doesn't bottle out." I chuckle. "I suppose that Momus was a viable-"

"He is with Akhlys now."

"-alternative-. Ah. Well, I… I suppose that I didn't expect to be pitted against authority quite this much. And saying 'Momus' directly to Hippolyta would have been a bit insulting."

"Few took his words in the spirit in which they were intended. One god to keep our egos in check and no one listened to him."

"The author Sir Terence Pratchett wrote that gods are mortals writ large. It's hard to hear your worst attributes described so bluntly."

…

"I'm waiting for it."

"I just hope that when I'm seven thousand years old I'm better at it than all of you are."

He reaches down and pats his hydra head. "How do I make this thing go?"

I pat Gary on the shoulder. "Forward, if you please."

"Yes, Master."

The heads fly forward, passing over the river of… Nectar? Which marks the boundary. And beyond that is bountiful farmland, fruitful at no effort to the inhabitant… Ssss…

"That's not supposed to be on fire, is it?"

"No it is-."

CRASH! And he's gone, something slamming into his construct lantern at high speed and knocking it out of the-.

Agh!

Destroying the construct lantern and sending it back to my ring.

"Gary, spore cloud!"

"Yes, Master."

A cloud of orange light-.

"And take evasive action!"

"Yes, Master." We drift to the right. "Sorry, Master. Fungus don't usually have to move fast."

I look down as the orange dust spreads. Zagreus is fighting off… A flying centaur? No, a man on a flying horse. Pegasus, and Bellerophon. Bellerophon, who was killed by Zeus for trying to fly up Mount Olympus. And then Zeus used Pegasus as a pack horse… Which I suppose explains why he's not still doing that. But why is he-?

Why is he wrapped in thorns-?

Agh..!

Anti-Life. She got to-.

An arrow embeds itself in Gary's chest, where his heart would be if he was human.

"Ow."

Two more arrows hit him, piercing both of the blank holes where his eyes would be. Ah, work out the angles…

"Send the heads down, by that copse of trees."

"Yes, Mast-" An arrow appears in his mouth. "-ah."

The other heads floating behind us move, but they're not all that fast like this. I could make them faster, if I could use my ring to empower them. Similarly, the Ophidian could boost them but we're back in the vicinity of the Anti-Life so that's a non-starter as well.

I'm not equipped for melee, and I'm out of practice as a minion controller. I-. Huh.

I draw my cold gun and take aim in the general direction of down, careful to keep as much of my body as possible behind Gary.

I look back at the thrall construct lantern floating along behind us. "You. Help Zagreus."

"Yes, Master."

Looking down… Ah, can't really see. Gary's spore cloud didn't stop him getting hit by arrows, but there might be other arrows that I didn't see miss us. Though given the angles involved-.

"Gary, take us down. Ground level, just over the river."

"Yes, Master."

Which makes it harder to hit us with arrows. I could just shoot up Elysium with cold beams, but that's… I don't want to wreck my own afterlife if I can possibly avoid it. Or give away that I have that capacity.

"Anything from the heads?"

"They have not spotted our assailant, Master."

Praexis demons were so useful for things like this. This is honestly the first time I've missed-.

Gary goes flying off the hydra head and into the river as a lioness kicks off him and lunges for me!

 

[Ngamer11]

He reaches down and pats his hydra head. "How to I make this thing go?"

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That should say 'do'.

I look back at the Reachian floating along behind us. "You. Help Zagreus."

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I assume this is referring to one of the Reach thralls, because I don't remember Paul ever assimilating a member of the Reach species.

 

[Darko]

But Hades' palace is closer to the Punishment Fields than to the final destination of the most legendarily heroic souls in Greek mythology.

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Maybe it's a security measure.

No one may want to break out of paradise, but everyone wants to get out of Hell, so him being closer to it means they have less of a chance at succeeding.

Father serious considered

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"seriously" or "considers"

One god to keep our egos in check and no one listened to him."

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Too much responsibility for one guy.

"Yes, Master

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This should be all orange.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Do you happen to know any off the top of your head I could look into further without manually skimming through all of it? I'm interested in learning a bit more, but not THAT interested.

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The history of the early Gods related to "El" usually comes up when folks started to research the origin stories for the Archangels, since they all have -el as a suffix....which is intended to convey the phrase 'of god' since they were adopted into the 'it's not a pantheon if they're all angels under the one god' list.

 

[Idkusername]

The history of the early Gods related to "El" usually comes up when folks started to research the origin stories for the Archangels, since they all have -el as a suffix....which is intended to convey the phrase 'of god' since they were adopted into the 'it's not a pantheon if they're all angels under the one god' list.

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The fact that there might be a god out there named Mitch greatly amuses me.

 

[Ardy]

I assume this is referring to one of the Reach thralls, because I don't remember Paul ever assimilating a member of the Reach species

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Nah, back when he had that coluan woman who worked for Amalek as an apprentice he assimilated a ship full of them when they attacked a neutral world to take a shot at him iirc