With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Radiant Knight]

That was fucking fantastic. He just destroyed them.

 

[Enochi]

Can we go back to Grayven soon. The more focus there is on Paul the more I hate him. And given that he is the author that doesn't say good things about him imo.


Edit: Or least have him face a Non-nerfed justice league from the comics. That would kick his teeth in real quick and might actually give him some character growth. Cause right now I can tell you/he has a swelled head that moons could orbit.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

Well, the Young Offenders are certainly going to be impressed. He just solo'd the entire team of superheroes who took down Old Management at the height of their power.

...better not let Ultra Boy at Superman anytime soon, though. That would probably end badly. Still, I can see this kind of causing even New Management to realize they've got the tiger by the tail with OL.

 

[TheLunarwolf]

Can we go back to Grayven soon. The more focus there is on Paul the more I hate him. And given that he is the author that doesn't say good things about him imo.


Edit: Or least have him face a Non-nerfed justice league from the comics. That would kick his teeth in real quick and might actually give him some character growth. Cause right now I can tell you/he has a swelled head that moons could orbit.

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And who are you?

 

[Valint]

"How can you even ask that? You know what the Syndicate is. I know Blue only works with them because he didn't have a choice, but you're far more powerful than he is. You wouldn't let something like the Syndicate exist on your Earth."

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... I mean, he's not wrong.

So, Paul's powerful enough that he can trivially take down the Justice League, but it's not possible for him to actually wrap up the Crime Syndicate without collateral damage? He just doesn't give a fuck about this world, so he can't be arsed to power up enough to deal with it?

I'm still having difficulty with why Paul's on the Crime Syndicate's side here. The kind of mindset he wants the heroes to adopt seems like the same kind of mindset that's okay with Nabu (because shutting him down is a messy complicated situation that might cause collateral damage), and we know how he felt about that... or maybe that was just because it was someone he knew, and his righteous rage was just a front?

 

[Enochi]

And who are you?

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A long time reader who consider this to have jumped the shark.

... I mean, he's not wrong.

So, Paul's powerful enough that he can trivially take down the Justice League, but it's not possible for him to actually wrap up the Crime Syndicate without collateral damage? He just doesn't give a fuck about this world, so he can't be arsed to power up enough to deal with it?

I'm still having difficulty with why Paul's on the Crime Syndicate's side here. The kind of mindset he wants the heroes to adopt seems like the same kind of mindset that's okay with Nabu (because shutting him down is a messy complicated situation that might cause collateral damage), and we know how he felt about that... or maybe that was just because it was someone he knew, and his righteous rage was just a front?

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I agree with all your points. I hope this chapter is setting up Paul for a fall. Cause he really needs to be bitched slaped multiple times.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Okay what the fuck shitty marty stu fan wank did this turn into. Damn you were always borderline dipping into this territory but this is your worst chapter to date and I despise it.

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Someone planning and preparing to take out the Justice League?

 

[X18999]

... I mean, he's not wrong.

So, Paul's powerful enough that he can trivially take down the Justice League, but it's not possible for him to actually wrap up the Crime Syndicate without collateral damage? He just doesn't give a fuck about this world, so he can't be arsed to power up enough to deal with it?

I'm still having difficulty with why Paul's on the Crime Syndicate's side here. The kind of mindset he wants the heroes to adopt seems like the same kind of mindset that's okay with Nabu (because shutting him down is a messy complicated situation that might cause collateral damage), and we know how he felt about that... or maybe that was just because it was someone he knew, and his righteous rage was just a front?

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Paul on Earth-16 and Paul Anywhere Else are do things completely differently... one plays nice for the League and his friends and the other would be hated by the League and his friends.

 

[hance1986]

Well, the Young Offenders are certainly going to be impressed. He just solo'd the entire team of superheroes who took down Old Management at the height of their power.

...better not let Ultra Boy at Superman anytime soon, though. That would probably end badly. Still, I can see this kind of causing even New Management to realize they've got the tiger by the tail with OL.

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No he didn't Paul took down the Justice League cartoon Leaguers. The ones who helped take down the Old Management were a Justice League variant for the Crisis on Two Earths movie.

These guys took down the Syndicate.

These guys were what Talon pulled in. And I have nothing but love in my heart for the DCAU, but the DCAU is a hero universe where the edges are a bit soft. Paul has interacted with Earth-16 variants of all these heroes. Knows their strengths and weaknesses. Hell, he took them out non-lethally! Is that not the height of skill?

Paul spent a year building up skill and talent and resources from the start through to the fight against Oceanus through to taking on Nabu. Then went out into the wider galaxy for space adventures and has been on and off Earth on more missions and events that become more complicated.

I would actually like some exposition kind of work here. Maybe the DCAU Wonder Woman is actually intrigued on how her band of heroes could be taken out by one unknown like OL leading into Paul talking a bit on how he gets on with Earth-16 Diana and any changes he brought to Themyscira. Paul, a man, being a citizen of her island and on good terms with a version of Hippolyta? I'd like to read that reaction.

EDIT: As for the guy earlier saying how this chapter was Mary Sue? During the fight on the Watchtower when Klarion, Captain Nazi, and Wolf Krieger were the targets, Paul held his own against a mind controlled Justice League. It's where he got his second power ring by assimilating John Stewart's. So Paul holding his own against the League is not without precedent.

 

[helios]

To be completely fair here, the universe 12 League were ambushed. Ambushed with pre-planned take-down methods that bare a certain amount of similarity to the plans Batman is generally portrayed as using as contingencies.

When you know a given group's weaknesses, have those weaknesses on hand, and have the ability to quickly deploy them and can accelerate your own thoughts... it's not that surprising.

The League's best chance of victory here was the Flash being on the ball, which with as goofy and distractable as this one is? Doesn't actually seem all that likely.

On the other hand, he isn't in a position to ambush the Crime Syndicate leadership in a moment where they have their guard down. They're too paranoid. He took down the Justice League because he ambushed them with known good weakness exploits when they were expecting to walk into a room with an ally who had called them there.

 

[Enochi]

Someone planning and preparing to take out the Justice League?

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I'm mean lets face it. You, the author has made your avatar have the most powerful ring and able to tap into almost all the comic book continuum for weapons, materials, and resources... while facing some of the most nerf-ed versions of the JLA. This right here as a chapter was you just jacking off onto the page. Its disgusting and shameful cause you have done better then this and should do better then this.

 

[hance1986]

SupermanweakeningconstructstriketoheadknockbacktakeDiana'spunchonkineticbarrierpullHawkwomanasidewithconstructcoldgunonflash.

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shoudl be ' Flash '

 

[Viterbi]

This looks like lol op, but on top of all the narrative build-up, the scenario itself was a once-in-a-lifetime alignment of the stars for OL:

• People OL was prepared for and had practiced against extensively
• They had no idea who OL was
• They had been dropped into a totally unknown situation and weren't ready for a fight
• OL was familiar with the situation and could act without having to gather any information
• The parallel's equivalents were already out of the game so OL didn't have to hide any relevant capabilities and could immediately deploy trump cards
• All of them in one place at one time so they couldn't spread out and force OL to split his attention defending multiple objectives
• They were in a confined space so they couldn't spread out to buy time to learn about OL and devise countermeasures

And probably a dozen more things I'm forgetting about. That was the best possible fight OL could have asked for and he's never going to get an opportunity like that again.

edit: As for "Why can't OL use this OP-ness to resolve the other major problem this arc presents"... It's that one about forcing OL to split his attention. If a single one of the Justice Leaguers had landed in the next room over OL would've had a much harder time or maybe even lost; they'd have been able to spread out, buy time, maybe escape entirely, and then force OL to take fork after fork after fork because they can be in two places at once and he can't. Now multiply that by an entire national government or comparable geopolitical entity.

 

[Topher876]

I feel like the best policy here really is honesty. The Justice League would have some serious qualms with arresting The Syndicate if they were aware of the summary execution and blood vengeance mentality of the Wilson administration, and with the alternative being Lex Luthor the credibility of the government would be really thin with them.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Armourcoldgunwidebeamgoldkryptonite!

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And straight to panic combat. At least the 'let's you and him fight' part is getting done with quick!

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Their Lantern Stewart has a shaved head, a goatee and an unarmoured costume, and their Hawkwoman is wearing bright unarmoured clothing that my version wouldn't be seen dead in.

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Not sure the twin 'unarmoured' works too well... Perhaps reword it to avoid repetition?

I doubt that there's anyone with superpowers who hasn't at some point thought 'how would I beat the Justice League in a fight?'.

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Heck, even some versions of Batman do it.

But if Owlman had weapons that could easily kill Lanterns then their John Stewart would have died on the moon. And Power Ring Green would have died years ago.

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Not for lack of trying, I bet...

Superman is trying to regain his feet, right hand smeared with blood as his cautiously probes where my construct hit.

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Superman is trying to regain his feet, right hand smeared with blood as he cautiously probes where my construct hit.

I fire a rapid volley of crumblers to disrupt his environmental shield and then cut off his right middle finger with an x-ionised knife. The finger and his ring fall to the floor as he winces, and I swiftly recover both. He grimaces, then takes a fighting stance. I shock crown him and then chain him up as well.

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...Ouch. You better put that finger back on later. Props to Stewart for apparently shrugging off losing a finger though.

"How can you even ask that? You know what the Syndicate is. I know Blue only works with them because he didn't have a choice, but you're far more powerful than he is. You wouldn't let something like the Syndicate exist on your Earth."

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Jerkass has a point. A very good point.

"Don't go to any trouble on my account."

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Dude, not so grumpy. He's offering to fix it.

"Alright." I pick him up in a construct grapple and bend him around until I have access to his right hand. Put the finger back in place and then purple healing ray for a few seconds… And then drop him back down.

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And he gets the quick and painful version. Should've been polite.

"T-twelve?"

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And now you feel like a right bastard, don't you?

Kal-El 12 frowns. "You've got a funny way of showing it."

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He has a point. I can get the panic assault, but...

Flash gapes slightly. "Huh?"

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I'm guessing he noticed the different Flash?

"Is to finesse them into becoming a less malevolent organisation. A direct fight would risk massive collateral damage, and I'm not totally comfortable with how police-statey Slade Wilson is making things. This gathering of the Syndicate is happening so that the management can set out their new policy and you being here is really going to undermine that. Is there any chance at all I could persuade you to accept a parole arrangement?"

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Not making the best first impression, especially after the lucky curbstomping...

Okay, I can see the complaints about the ease with which he took them down... And the arguments for and against. Let's go with 'Power ring plus prep-time plus surprise round,' shall we?

 

[helios]

This right here as a chapter was you just jacking off onto the page.

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Just so I can properly gauge your feelings on the matter, how do you feel about Justice League: Doom?

 

[Ngamer11]

edit: As for "Why can't OL use this OP-ness to resolve the other major problem this arc presents"... It's that one about forcing OL to split his attention. If a single one of the Justice Leaguers had landed in the next room over OL would've had a much harder time or maybe even lost; they'd have been able to spread out, buy time, maybe escape entirely, and then force OL to take fork after fork after fork because they can be in two places at once and he can't. Now multiply that by an entire national government or comparable geopolitical entity.

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That brings up one question: Where's Batman?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Their Lantern Stewart has a shaved head, a goatee and an unarmoured costume, and their Hawkwoman is wearing bright unarmoured clothing that my version wouldn't be seen dead in.
Not sure the twin 'unarmoured' works too well... Perhaps reword it to avoid repetition?

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The repetition here is intentional as he sees it as a recurring mistake they're all making.

 

[Ngamer11]

How does Paul know Earth 12 = Justice League Animated Series?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Okay what the fuck shitty marty stu fan wank did this turn into. Damn you were always borderline dipping into this territory but this is your worst chapter to date and I despise it.

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It's not like Paul literally did a review where he found out the strengths and weaknesses of all league members or anything, or that he has access to the tools required to take them down.

... I mean, he's not wrong.

So, Paul's powerful enough that he can trivially take down the Justice League, but it's not possible for him to actually wrap up the Crime Syndicate without collateral damage? He just doesn't give a fuck about this world, so he can't be arsed to power up enough to deal with it?

I'm still having difficulty with why Paul's on the Crime Syndicate's side here. The kind of mindset he wants the heroes to adopt seems like the same kind of mindset that's okay with Nabu (because shutting him down is a messy complicated situation that might cause collateral damage), and we know how he felt about that... or maybe that was just because it was someone he knew, and his righteous rage was just a front?

Click to shrink...

Let me just execute some children that have committed that we know off theft, assault and possibly (but not certainly) murder (with the exception of lamprey, who we know is a cannibal) now I don't have a problem with that but pauls a bit more bleeding heart. For those that doubt me remember Slade has selling apples to the syndicate as a capital offence (death penalty according to blue Paul)
EDIT: I may be misremembering capital offence I know it was aiding and abetting but my memory isn't the best

EDIT:

How does Paul know Earth 12 = Justice League Animated Series?

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Because zoat did presumably remembered it from an episode because of his perfect memory

 

[Mquz]

Man, people complain both about Paul failing (remember, the dragon), and about people being able to succeed when prepared... really?

 

[Radiant Knight]

I'm mean lets face it. You, the author has made your avatar have the most powerful ring and able to tap into almost all the comic book continuum for weapons, materials, and resources... while facing some of the most nerf-ed versions of the JLA. This right here as a chapter was you just jacking off onto the page. Its disgusting and shameful cause you have done better then this and should do better then this.

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It's funny that you use that terminology with your usertag.

 

[l---erddad---l]

Point of order: his big weakness, magic, just so happens to be the Syndicate's biggest strength. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'm saying he's doing the right thing, but the difference between taking down the league and taking down the syndicate is that if he misses any peripheral members, there are good chances they could start busting out city-destroying weapons.

 

[helios]

How does Paul know Earth 12 = Justice League Animated Series?

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Part of his meta knowledge. He's referred to them as that at least since the time he gave the presentation on the Watchtower.

"Secondly -and I'll warn you that in the style of Sir Humphrey Appleby this is very similar to the first option- you continue to recruit anyone with the right skill set, but appoint an executive to approve new members.. and make most other operational decisions. This executive would probably be elected by the membership as a whole. This has the advantage of not causing those nominated for membership to feel excluded, but would most likely result in some of the people who are currently members losing some of their authority."

The Earth 12 option. Sort of. I never got the feeling that the authority of the original seven was in any way up for debate, even when a good proportion of the membership flat out hated Hawkgirl.

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[Gladiusone]

That brings up one question: Where's Batman?

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Damn, I was just about to ask that ...

 

[Mquz]

How does Paul know Earth 12 = Justice League Animated Series?

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He said he's a fan out of universe.

 

[Slayer Anderson]

No he didn't Paul took down the Justice League cartoon Leaguers. The ones who helped take down the Old Management were a Justice League variant for the Crisis on Two Earths movie.

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Hm... I suppose I was under the misconception that they were supposed to be the same JL and they'd just swapped in a different active-duty GL for the movie.

I'm mean lets face it. You, the author has made your avatar have the most powerful ring and able to tap into almost all the comic book continuum for weapons, materials, and resources... while facing some of the most nerf-ed versions of the JLA. This right here as a chapter was you just jacking off onto the page. Its disgusting and shameful cause you have done better then this and should do better then this.

Click to shrink...

If the story for this arc/episode were about defeating a Justice League lineup, then I'd agree with you, but it's not.

The point of this arc is trying to negotiate a proper ceasefire and return to normalcy on negative fourteen's earth. Actually having a higher-powered Justice League step in would actually exacerbate the situation into all-out warfare and leave bodies in the streets. It would be counterproductive to the plot.

... I mean, he's not wrong.

So, Paul's powerful enough that he can trivially take down the Justice League, but it's not possible for him to actually wrap up the Crime Syndicate without collateral damage? He just doesn't give a fuck about this world, so he can't be arsed to power up enough to deal with it?

I'm still having difficulty with why Paul's on the Crime Syndicate's side here. The kind of mindset he wants the heroes to adopt seems like the same kind of mindset that's okay with Nabu (because shutting him down is a messy complicated situation that might cause collateral damage), and we know how he felt about that... or maybe that was just because it was someone he knew, and his righteous rage was just a front?

Click to shrink...

God, I hate it when people forget basic characterization. Okay, so OL Paul has a soul primarily forged out of orange light. That means a huge function of what he can/wants to do is a matter of how much he cares about a given subject. In the beginning of this arc, he was about to try to go to the heroes and jump ship back to his own earth simply because this universe isn't his problem. He can't do everything in every world and fix all the problems. The only reason he's here is because of his BL counterpart and the fact that he feels a little attachment to the Young Offenders as a function of his own team's parallels.

Corollary to why he isn't ripping the Syndicate apart right now, too. He can't spare the years of effort, if not decades that it would take to destroy the Syndicate and then rebuild society. It's not his world, he has other problems to deal with, and he doesn't want to put in a half-measure that just makes everyone's lives worse by going in with heroic face-punching like he's accused his own Justice League of numerous times. The only reasonable fix for the situation that he can actually do in the limited time he has available to him is get a truce called, get things to deescalate, and maybe in ten years when a large swath of Made Men aren't toting around WMDs, the authorities can make a more concerted effort to root out the problem. Or the Made Men will be so involved with running countries of their own that they won't have time for as much organized crime and the world will slowly get better without a massive war.

Edit: TL;DR: Paul doesn't have the time to dedicate to properly un-fucking this clusterfuck and doesn't intrinsically care enough about this world to make the time for it, so he's trying to design a solution that will, hopefully, give people enough time to rationally make choices that won't destroy a huge part of society.

 

[Mquz]

Damn, I was just about to ask that ...

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He Ninja'd you to Batman?

 

[Prince Charon]

Hm... I suppose I was under the misconception that they were supposed to be the same JL and they'd just swapped in a different active-duty GL for the movie.

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I think Mr Zoat might have said in an earlier post that in the continuity of this fic, it was indeed the Earth 12 JL that took down the Old Management, but I'm not sure, which is why I'm trying to tag him in this post.

 

[Vaermina]

5th February
21:01 GMT -5

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I am massively disappointed in you as a writer for nerfing the Animated Universe Justice League just to make your SI look good Mister Zoat.

This looks like lol op, but on top of all the narrative build-up, the scenario itself was a once-in-a-lifetime alignment of the stars for OL:

• People OL was prepared for and had practiced against extensively
• They had no idea who OL was
• They had been dropped into a totally unknown situation and weren't ready for a fight
• OL was familiar with the situation and could act without having to gather any information
• The parallel's equivalents were already out of the game so OL didn't have to hide any relevant capabilities and could immediately deploy trump cards
• All of them in one place at one time so they couldn't spread out and force OL to split his attention defending multiple objectives
• They were in a confined space so they couldn't spread out to buy time to learn about OL and devise countermeasures

And probably a dozen more things I'm forgetting about. That was the best possible fight OL could have asked for and he's never going to get an opportunity like that again.

edit: As for "Why can't OL use this OP-ness to resolve the other major problem this arc presents"... It's that one about forcing OL to split his attention. If a single one of the Justice Leaguers had landed in the next room over OL would've had a much harder time or maybe even lost; they'd have been able to spread out, buy time, maybe escape entirely, and then force OL to take fork after fork after fork because they can be in two places at once and he can't. Now multiply that by an entire national government or comparable geopolitical entity.

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Except everything Paul did this chapter has been shown in the JLAU verse not to work on those particular members of the Justice League.

Gold Kryptonite - Doesn't effect JLAU Superman
Cold Gun - Doesn't effect JLAU Flash's speed.
Spatial Crumbling tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Green Lantern Constructs.
Constructs - Are disrupted with any contact with Thanagarian Nth Metal Weaponry
Vertigo Tech - Doesn't effect JLAU Thanagarians
Phase Disruption Tech and Psi Disruption Tech - JLAU Martian Manhunter trained himself to resist both.

I'm mean lets face it. You, the author has made your avatar have the most powerful ring and able to tap into almost all the comic book continuum for weapons, materials, and resources... while facing some of the most nerf-ed versions of the JLA. This right here as a chapter was you just jacking off onto the page. Its disgusting and shameful cause you have done better then this and should do better then this.

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You forgot how he heavily nerfed the powers and abilities of the Animated Universe Justice League from their actual on screen showings just so Paul would be able to beat them.