With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-06T08:58:29+0100

Darko said:
"riders might"
"puts their eyes"
"endurance"
"building"

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · 2025-06-06T09:21:48+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Early Winter, IC 690

For all of their talents, the Romans were not good ship builders. I don't really know 'why'. Yes, Britain needed good ships to go anywhere, but Italy had an extensive coastline. My best guess is that it was because the people who were most likely to attack them were the German tribes who were landlocked and not technologically able. Even when they conquered England, I don't remember my own forebears meeting them at sea. Whereas the British Empire had to fight Spain and France at sea.

And, to be fair, the ships of the day weren't the best in general, except maybe the Phoenicians. Most soldiers preferred combat on land anyway, where the ground didn't rock and wasn't about to sink in bad weather.

Prince Diabo hasn't been as involved in the shipbuilding project as he has in the gunpowder project, but even here Japan's knowledge is making itself felt.

I feel a moment of smugness for the actions of William Adams.

Or perhaps I should say 'knowledge we acquired via Japan'. Certainly, most of it is stuff that already existed in this ring's database, but no one would ever learn anything for themselves if they could just ask me for everything.

As long as they don't replicate old Japanese ship design too much. Korea might be useful, especially Yi's Turtle Ships.

The hulls we built would be familiar to anyone familiar with Age of Sail ships, with the exception of the fact that they've got palisades to block enemy arrows and aren't designed with enemy cannonades in mind. Because no one else has cannons. Or muskets. The fact that we can close to much shorter distances without getting shot full of holes more than counterbalances the fact that the sailors don't have any experience in using cannons in combat. As with critics of the aerial and land portions of our work, a quick demonstration of the effectiveness of chain shot against masts and grapeshot against exposed decks was enough to convert them to our cause. The Empire's enemies are used to guarding against highly effective boarding actions, but they do so by mustering men-at-arms in tight formation to prevent marines from gaining a foothold. If they try that with these new ships, it would be a slaughter.

In other words, Diabo's forces are going to just about crush anyone not smart enough to be wary. ...So, a lot of navies.

"But they're tiny!"

Giselle is walking around the wyverns attached to Prince Diabo's army, looking at them with obvious distain. It took them a little while to get used to Prince Diabo's dragon, but as far as I can tell the complete lack of hostility has meant that they just sort of think of it as being a bigger wyvern.

Handy, given the slight differences in body shape, especially the extra forelimbs.

She stomps back towards the royal party, everyone gathered to see the first wave of ships off either backing out of the way of the irate demigoddess or pretending that she's not there disrupting procedures.

"Why are you bothering with these midget things when you've got a full-sized dragon, huh?"

Bigger animal, bigger problems.

The wyvern riders are might be getting offended, but they've got enough sense to keep it off their faces.

"Because I have only one dragon, and only so many ships to carry food."

Since it's not really equipped to hunt sea life. I don't doubt there are leviathans or the like in the oceans, but they'd probably avoid fleets unless they're especially belligerent.

Wyverns look impressive close-up, but a moment's consideration makes their limitations readily apparent. Their wings are part of their forelimbs, much like those of bats, and as such they struggle to bring their claws to bear against an enemy. They have to bite at them instead, and worse still, their muzzles are relatively snort. As a result, having them directly attack inevitably their eyes within easy reach of their targets. They also lack the breath attack of their larger kin, and their wings are proportionally more fragile as well. Standard practice for wyverns caught on the ground is, firstly, to get airborne as fast as possible, or if it isn't to spin and use their tail to knock away infantry to create space.

I doubt they feature the tail poison-spike of their D&D counterparts, either. Just big, mundane bat-lizards probably closer to pterosauroids. Albeit at a size and proportions possible due to magic.

"I could get more. So long as you promise to give Hardy lots of sacrifices."

Their riders are armed with lances, but that's more so they can stab at things while their wyvern is on the ground than because they ever do lance charges. When they fight, they're more likely to do so using bows or by dropping flasks of burning oil. We do have barrels of gunpowder they could drop, but the wyverns aren't trained for that and the demonstration we did involved tying the barrel to the wyvern's barrel. Between the difficulty in judging the fusing and the effect of the extra weight on the wyvern's enduring and agility, it's not an efficient use for them.

Incendiaries would probably be more effective, but even more dangerous to the bearer than the enemy if handled poorly.

"Even if I had more dragons, that doesn't change the supply situation. I-."

"Sure looks like a lot of ships to me."

Dragons are not the be-all and end-all of warfare, girl, no matter how much you like them.

So we don't. We get rid of their armour and replace it with leather and wool for operating at higher altitude and in rain. We get rid of their weapons and give them charts and pencils and messenger satchels. Perhaps we could reconsider if we're been able to attract a few more magicians; giving them more strategic and tactical mobility would result in a massive improvement in battlefield effectiveness. They could advance, throw out a few explosive bolts and then retreat on wyvernback with their own exhaustion being no issue. But… No. That would detract from the gunpowder weapons and we need that to be the focus in order to assure Diabo's ascension.

That would be a nice equivalent to the Japanese attack helicopters. Though it would depend on the range of the casters' magic. If they had to close within arrow range, well...

"It is a lot of ships. And I'm afraid that we need all of them."

In addition to our new model warships, there are cargo ships to bring supplies and to transport the rest of our soldiers once we've established a bridgehead. And that's important, because as Winston Churchill would tell you, getting significant amounts of men and materiel off ships without a decent port is an exercise in sloth. The plan is that we'll use smaller ships to transport Warrior Bunnies and the first wave of blunderbussers and legionaries to the enemy coast, then use the ships and their guns to attack the port from the sea while they attack from the land. The city is fortified, but it isn't designed to resist cannonade and we don't need the walls intact.

I suppose having the materials to make floating piers would be beyond them right now. And face the perils of rough shore-water too...

Bit of a shame that we haven't been able to train sappers or engineers in the use of gunpowder.

"What for?!"

I'm guessing due to time, not their inclination. Since gunpowder bombs were a major part of siege warfare in that era. Among other things, tunnelling to undermine walls and place breaching charges. The sappers mentioned would likely be used to the former role anyway, but the bombs would take a lot more care.

Prince Diabo looks around at the crowds watching the embarkation.

"For things I don't intend to tell you about where people could hear."

Never know who's listening, after all. Especially if some talented mage could scry the area.

We're pretty sure that the people we're attacking know that something is coming. The remote location of our workshops have kept us free of spies-. Free of foreign spies, at least. And building new ships wasn't something that was going to alarm the Empire's neighbours too greatly. But training gun crews to work on ships could only be concealed so much, to say nothing of preventing the crews from talking about their work in taverns. So we haven't bothered putting too much effort into it. The specifics of what we're going to do with the force we're build and how we're going to do it are highly secret, but our main form of surprise comes from the time it would take for a spy to get a message back to their masters and the difficult in describing what a cannon actually is.

Yeah, I doubt most cultures within reach who are going to hear 'metal pipe that spits fire and a lead ball' are going to consider it a threat... Until the first shots are pounding into their ranks, anyway.

And the implication that Prince Diabo's dragon is our main weapon for breaching their walls.

"Who cares who hears, you've got a dragon!"

Other people may have dragons too. Probably not as tame, but still.

"Dragons are impressive, but they're hardly unbeatable."

Giselle stares at him like he's a stupid heretic for a moment, then turns and stomps-

Given how much of a fangirl she is about them and their deity, that's probably literal.

"Ow."

-off towards the catering area, her tail striking Diabo in the side as she goes.

Sadly, I doubt that was a tsundere move. Not like she has much affection for him, after all.

"There's no way that actually hurt."

"It did a little."

Well, evidently you let your defences wane because she didn't seem that dangerous, did you, Diabo?

"The only way that could have hurt is if you wanted it to." Hm. "Though if your tastes run that way, I suppose that she wouldn't be a terrible choice for princess consort."

He raises his left hand a little so that he can better stare at me in horror.

I mean, while she has a cute face, the rest of her does get rather draconic, especially around the feet. And wings. And said tail.

"And you wouldn't have to worry about her getting assassinated or trying to usurp you, and if things are a little rocky you can just wait until she undergoes apotheosis and then you're free."

"Oh God of Ambition, please do not suggest anything like that ever again."

To be fair, OL does have a different scale for 'dangerous lady' than Diabo does. Jade, for instance.

"No promises. Or how about this one?"

A trio of knights in the colours of the Order of the Rose are approaching the royal pavilion, and I feel Diabo checking to make sure that his half-sister isn't amongst them. Their leader has truly ridiculous hair and generally gives the impression of someone who shouldn't be anywhere near a actual war zone, while the two behind her look like they shouldn't have bet their pensions on the chariot racing.

Ah, anime drill hair. The natural over-emphatic version of Ringlets. Achieved by using curling irons to form the long spirals. Just imagine the effort needed in this level of technology.

"Prince Diabo El Caesar!"

"Where?"

"I-!" The wind leaves her ~~hair~~ sails. "What?"

Ha! Neatly deflated her attitude (and given anime tropes, her floof as well, I bet.)

Prince Diabo covers me with his right hand. "Dame Bozes Co Palesti. Have you come for the ceremony?"

"I have not. By order of the senate, we will be accompanying your fleet to ensure that the senate have an accurate picture of events!"

Kind of to be expected. Without impartial observers, any report would be at risk of being dismissed as hyperbole or overestimation.

"I would have appreciated more notice, but that's fine. I will be leaving-."

"I will accompany you! I am well accustomed to sea travel!"

"I will be travelling on dragon back, but don't worry. There's plenty of room." She gulps. "I'll have to see what the leatherworkers can do about a second saddle."

Suddenly regretting her insistence, I see. Hope she doesn't get airsick.

Another girl for the pool. Admittedly, probably higher-maintenance than most, given that hairstyle. Wonder how many hours it takes to set that up each morning?

Unless she adopts a more sensible braid under a helmet for actual combat (which I doubt, given the archetype.) This is getting increasingly comedic.

[d]so[/b]

A 'd' in the tag, and 'do'.

Perhaps we could reconsider if we're been able

Perhaps we could reconsider if we'd been able

Neruz · 2025-06-06T11:41:44+0100

The Roman navy catches a lot of flak because there were a number of incidents, particularly during the Punic Wars, where they managed to get entire fleets sunk. This, combined with the fact that the Romans weren't really fans of the navy leading to it often getting sidelined to a degree, plus how the Mediterranean is a fairly 'safe' sea, along with Rome having frequent issues with pirates until the Imperial era, leads people to conclude that Roman shipbuilding wasn't very good.

This isn't really true; Roman shipbuilding was fairly advanced for the time, but it is certainly true that the Romans focused the majority of their time and money into their armies, rather than their navies, frequently leaving the navy to play second fiddle in comparison.

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-06T14:10:30+0100

Chojin Patriarch said:
A 'd' in the tag, and 'do'.
Perhaps we could reconsider if we'd been able

Thank you, corrected.

Whenever Possible · 2025-06-06T14:12:50+0100

Romans were fairly good shipbuilders for their time for most of the Republic and Empire's existence. They just were better roadbuilders.

Hell, the Battle of Cape Economis might be the biggest naval battle in history based on number of men involved, depending on how accurate some sources are, and the Romans won that one.

FuzzyZergling · 2025-06-06T15:35:02+0100

Mr Zoat said:
We so have barrels of gunpowder they could drop

We also have

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-06T15:54:32+0100

FuzzyZergling said:
We also have

Thank you, corrected.

Ardy · 2025-06-06T16:40:46+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Their muzzles are relatively snort

Short

Mr Zoat said:
the wyverns aren't trained for that and the demonstration we did involved tying the barrel to the wyvern's barrel.

do you mean back?

Duke Long · 2025-06-06T17:24:00+0100

Mr Zoat said:
Or perhaps I should say 'knowledge we acquired via Japan'. Certainly, most of it is stuff that already existed in this ring's database, but no one would ever learn anything for themselves if they could just ask me for everything.

I was wondering about that in previous instalments. I thought maybe he'd lost his database somehow.

Ardy said:
do you mean back?

A barrel is a physiological feature in some animals. The gunpowder barrel is probably attached to the underside of the wyvern.

Mr Zoat · 2025-06-06T17:53:52+0100

Ardy said:
Short

Thank you, corrected.

do you mean back?

No, chest.

Vaermina · 2025-06-06T18:44:42+0100

GhostKing 666 said:
They actually did have pretty good ship building. For the time period. Now, it's true that Rome was never a true naval power, but that's largely because after they conquered the various different powers on the Mediterranean, there really wasn't anyone else left who could challenge them(Carthage, Greece, Egypt, etc.), with the Mediterranean being outright referred to as a "Roman Lake" during the Imperial era.

Not to mention the fact that the Mediterranean is a very different sea compared to the Atlantic or North Sea.

They didn't. I'm honestly not sure if any of the groups living in England at the time even had the means to construct ships that could fight the Romans at sea(cross the channel sure but fight Roman ships not so much).

They also had the benefit of being several hundred years down the line with a lot of major advancements in naval construction and ship building between them and the Roman period. That's hardly a proper comparison.

All accurate, but remember, Orange Lantern likes stretching the truth and making things up to convince people that his way of doing things is the best way.

mastermenthe · 2025-06-06T19:49:55+0100

On one hand every girl in this harem is going to die on the other hand he will probably be much more grateful that he never got attached to any of them then he would ever feel regret about not doing any of them

Unless the tragedy is that by ignoring all of them for long enough he incites some kind of war between them all or is forced to deal with all of them at once

Ardy · 2025-06-06T20:02:15+0100

mastermenthe said:
On one hand every girl in this harem is going to die on the other hand he will probably be much more grateful that he never got attached to any of them then he would ever feel regret about not doing any of them

Unless the tragedy is that by ignoring all of them for long enough he incites some kind of war between them all or is forced to deal with all of them at once

I thought the tragedy was what happened to the bunnies?

Darko · 2025-06-06T23:21:41+0100

Mr Zoat said:
reverie to realise that the Director had already

Link doesn't seem to work.

jasonh23761 · 2025-06-06T23:23:25+0100

Mr Zoat said:
For all of their talents, the Romans were not good ship builders. I don't really know 'why'. Yes, Britain needed good ships to go anywhere, but Italy had an extensive coastline. My best guess is that it was because the people who were most likely to attack them were the German tribes who were landlocked and not technologically able.

Thanks for the chapter! I've been enjoying this little jaunt into Gate. Man, I have a love hate relationship with that series.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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