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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Yeah. All of Remnant's technology is based around Dust, and Dust doesn't work outside Remnant's atmosphere so they have no real capability for space travel or even just building some kind of orbital communications network. Which is why what comms they do have are all heavily centralized in their CCT towers.
 
It's not that simple.

To work properly, the relic needs either for you to know precisely what you want to build down to the exact science, meaning that you need to know exactly how what you want to build works, or to give a very detailed blueprint to the spirit that lives in the relic. And since Remnant has never achieved the scientific know-how or technology required to do this, it's extremely unlikely that Salem would be able to get the spirit to make a fully functional spaceship that could travel FTL. In other words, you can only create something with the relic if you know precisely how to make it, or if you have a working instruction manual that can tell you how to make it. Plus, there's also the problem of fuel, since Remnant doesn't seem to have a fuel source that could power such a spaceship, and Dust doesn't seem to work outside of Remnant's atmosphere either.
No, they have to be detailed because Ambrose is a literal genie.


And even if she got past all those issues, where is she supposed to start looking for The Brothers, exactly? The universe is a really, REALLY big place. Where is she even supposed to start looking for them? What, is she supposed to just start wandering aimlessly through space?
Yes, because for all she knows there might be something else out there that can also do the job of killing her.
 
No, they have to be detailed because Ambrose is a literal genie.

Not quite. They have to be detailed and know exactly how the object they want to create works down to the exact science, because if not, the spirit will merely create an object that looks like what the user want, but it will not actually work how the user wants, because despite appearances, it won't be the object that the user actually wants. So if Salem wanted to make a FTL spaceship, she would have to explain to the spirit:

a) Exactly how it's made.

b) Exactly how it works.

c) Exactly what it's made of.

And since Salem would have no way of knowing any of those things without blatantly contradicting the show's continuity, she can't use the relic of creation to make an FTL spaceship.

Yes, because for all she knows there might be something else out there that can also do the job of killing her.

Like what? There's been no indication of other alien life or magic in RWBY space, so for all we know, there's nothing else out there aside from the brothers. Best case scenario, she just wanders around in space for a few millennia, then gets bored and returns to Remnant to resume her endless war with Ozpin.
 
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I mean as far as sun goes he appears being classed off a ship and across the docks by two guys in uniform, gets called a stowaway and then loudly declares he is a great stowaway.

It ain't murder or rape or anything, it's a minor crime, but he full on admits to having committed the crime he's been chased for near all of team RWBY. He is a self admitted criminal.
The core flaw that RWBY has, like a lot of modern entertainment, is the writing. There are places where it's not bad, but the writers seem to need to undermine any serious flaw (that is, any quality that the writers see as a serious flaw) that their main heroines have, rather than letting them naturally overcome them with time. So, Weiss is sort of prejudiced, but also kind of isn't, since any sign of it that we see is for an obvious (sometimes anvilicious) reason.

EDIT: Hang on, was there a Paul on Remnant, or did this come from a derail?
 
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In a mild attempt to re-rail this....the Justice League did Cross Over with RWBY a while back....twice. Maybe Three times.
Two animated features and a comic run.


View: https://youtu.be/6fKpdtyoLJE

So...if those were canon to RWBY, then you could argue they might have learned about aliens and non dust tech...from cyborg and superman.
 
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Why are we arguing about RWBY in the Orange Lantern thread y'all
 
Actual answer? Someone made a comment about Paul's type being villainous, dommy mommy catgirls.

In response to that, Zoat made a comment about RWBY wasting Sienna Khan and thinking he'd be able to talk her around. Then mentioned how badly RWBY mishandled the entire Faunus racism storyline, and people kind of gave their own opinions (myself included) until it kind of got away from us.
 
And That's Okay (part 17) New
21st July 2013
07:46 GMT -5


Artemis nods slowly.

"So it turns out we're doomed."

I roll my eyes. "Helpful comments only, please."

Roy looks at me askance. "Why..? Luthor?"

"His combination of ambition, intelligence, ruthlessness and mental focus means that as far as I can tell he's the person most likely to be able to do something useful." I make a flapping motion with my forearms. "He's more powerful when Earth's civilisation is functioning. Even if he acts in a purely self-interested way, he's still useful. Especially if I'm right to be worried."

Donna looks decidedly unimpressed. "And what if you're not?"

"Then he's still better for Chong-Mai than their former government was. Our lives might become a little more difficult, but he wouldn't be getting anything that he couldn't get anyway. Nothing he… Didn't have before the broadcast."

Artemis stares at me in disbelief. "Are you still trying to recruit him?"

"He's on the long list. If he actually.. genuinely turned, I'd be happy to-."

"Wait here!"

Artemis storms off… In the direction of Red Tornado's old room.

Um, okay-.

"You remember-" Roy looks decidedly unhappy. "-how he kidnapped me and cut my arm off and cloned me."

"Roy, it would have been far easier for him to kill you once he'd given William a copy of your memories. There was no self-interested reason to keep you alive and quite a good one not to."

Wallace is.. trying to make sense of The Question's file. "Do we know if this guy is actually working with Mad Hatter?"

"Technically, no. I haven't seen them together and he didn't actually say that they are, but they share the same concern."

"No, I mean, are they working together, or did the guy who we know can mind control people who've been Justified just mind control The Question?"

"Don't know. The Question should be hardened against mind control, but that didn't help against Mannheim." Hm. "Actually-."

Wallace nods. "We need to check you for mind control, don't we? You got exposed when your clone hit you."

I.. walk towards the right zeta tube, and its substantially upgraded security system. Set it to left tube, walk towards it-

"Recognised, Orange Lantern, B zero six."

-and out again.

"Now, that's not completely reliable, but without a dedicated magic user-."

Donna steps forwards and lays her right hand on my head. "May Metis bless this one with mental sanctity."

I breathe in rather sharply as the blessing takes effect. And… I certainly feel a lot calmer now, but my basic analysis of the situation hasn't changed.

"No change that I can feel in how I feel about the situation."

There's a clank from above as the flight access to Red Tornado's room opens and Artemis drops down.

The four of us look at her.

"Just picking something up." She gestures to me with her right thumb. "Is he mind controlled?"

Donna shakes her head. "Not as far as we can tell. And given how many wards he built into the rock, the Mountain should have interrupted anything like that the moment he got here." She frowns thoughtfully. "Does that mean I can influence the Peace Operatives?"

"You… Might be able to. Or at least disrupt Batman's control a little. I don't know how much focus it requires."

Wallace shrugs. "Okay… So… What do you want to do about any of this?"

"If I knew that, I'd be doing it. All I've got at the moment is… Let Batman carry on, because all the people getting mind wiped are volunteers. Monitor exactly what he does and how far his reach has expanded. Preserve other loci of power, so that if he does go off the deep end then it's still possible to fight him. And… That's it."

Wallace's shoulders slump slightly. "Huh. Kind of assumed you'd have more than that."

"I never really cultivated contacts in conventional national governments. The Justice League has their hands full. I could ask Captain Comet if he can spare the time; he's good at reconstruction. But we're not close, and he's restoring Vega at the moment. And if Batman has some sort of mental subversion system active then I don't really want a telepath of his power level anywhere near it."

Wallace nods. "And if Hatter's got some kind of mental subversion system active we don't really want him near it either."

Roy shakes his head. "We can't do nothing because we're worried that something bad might happen. Couldn't you just ask Captain Comet what he thinks without bringing him here?"

I nod. "Yes, that's definitely possible. I'm sure he knows his limits better than me."

Artemis frowns. "Are there any other New Gods on Earth?"

"I asked… Canis that. He doesn't think so, but he can't say for sure. Of course… If Doctor Tetch is one now, that means that he can probably use Batman's throne."

Wallace's eyes dip. "So he could control the Peace Operative O.M.A.C.s without the globe?"

"I'm not sure how it works. From what I understand, New God technology generally synergises well with other pieces of New God technology. With the globe and the throne-."

Oh.

Artemis shrugs. "What?"

"Well… It wouldn't just be him who can use it. I mean… Any New God, any magician skilled enough to fake it… Maybe… Batman himself, could use both of them together. So if we arrested Doctor Tetch…"

She nods. "Batman gets the globe. Which would also be bad."

"Or it could be really good. Giving Batman a stronger ability to influence the world might really improve-. Ow!"

I give Artemis a hurt look as she lowers the rolled up newspaper… Which she acquired from Red Tornado's room. The she points it at me assertively. "Bad! No evil!"

"Ah, okay?"

"Huh." She lowers it. "I didn't think that would work."

Donna stares at us for a moment, then shakes her head, dismissing it. "So you're going to Vega. What are we doing?"

Roy walks up to the computer and starts calling up information. "Batman wasn't a New God six months ago. We've got details of all the New God tech the League confiscated, right?"

"Everything that hasn't been deliberately hidden, yes."

"So something happened in the last six months. I guess we get to be the detectives."
 
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"Our"
Roy, if would have been far easier for him to kill you once he'd given William a copy of your memories. There was no self-interested reason to keep you alive and quite a good one not to."
That's...not at all reassuring.

Once someone kidnaps someone else, cuts off their limb and releases a clone to take their place, that person is on a permanent shit list, no matter if they didn't do other evil things to them.
May Metis bless this one with mental sanctity."
Metis: I'm not a miracle worker!
"Or it could be really good. Giving Batman a stronger ability to influence the world might really improve-. Ow!"

I give Artemis a hurt look as she lowers the rolled up newspaper… Which he acquired from Red Tornado's room. The she points it at me assertively. "Bad! No evil
Smart.
 
"Roy, if would have been far easier for him to kill you once he'd given William a copy of your memories. There was no self-interested reason to keep you alive and quite a good one not to."
That should say 'it'.

Roy walks up to the computer and starts calling up information. "Batman wasn't a New God six months ago. We've got details of all the New God tech the League confiscated, right?"

"Everything that hasn't been deliberately hidden, yes."

"So something happened in the last six months. I guess we get to be the detectives."
I kinda hope Batman ends up becoming a New God of Knowledge like in that storyline where the Justice League became New Gods.
 
The core flaw that RWBY has, like a lot of modern entertainment, is the writing. There are places where it's not bad, but the writers seem to need to undermine any serious flaw (that is, any quality that the writers see as a serious flaw) that their main heroines have, rather than letting them naturally overcome them with time. So, Weiss is sort of prejudiced, but also kind of isn't, since any sign of it that we see is for an obvious (sometimes anvilicious) reason.

EDIT: Hang on, was there a Paul on Remnant, or did this come from a derail?

Wait, but it was Zoat himself who first brought up RWBY, so does it count as derailing the thread if the guy who made the thread is also the one who steered it in that direction?

No. No. Let Batman have the globe, too. Just run that train full-speed ahead and see what happens.

Good idea! And then, let's give him the Anti-Life Equation, a fruit from the Garden of Eden, A copy of the Grimorium Verum and then the carbonated blood of Christ just for shits and giggles!


She nods. "Batman gets the globe. Which would also be bad."

"Or it could be really good. Giving Batman a stronger ability to influence the world might really improve-. Ow!"

I give Artemis a hurt look as she lowers the rolled up newspaper… Which he acquired from Red Tornado's room. The she points it at me assertively. "Bad! No evil!"

Wait, what? Does the Team think Paul is evil? What's going on?
 
21st July 2013
07:46 GMT -5


Artemis nods slowly.

"So it turns out we're doomed."
And now you see why OL was being so gloomy. I mean, it certainly doesn't look great on paper: Batman using New God tech to control mind-wiped superhuman operatives, JErvis Tetch with technology that may do the same thing, and human culture teetering on the edge of outbreaks of wars everywhere, held back mostly by the former two things...

I roll my eyes. "Helpful comments only, please."

Roy looks at me askance. "Why..? Luthor?"
He has money, power and resources. Can you suggest anyone else? Please, do.

"His combination of ambition, intelligence, ruthlessness and mental focus means that as far as I can tell he's the person most likely to be able to do something useful." I make a flapping motion with my forearms. "He's more powerful when Earth's civilisation is functioning. Even if he acts in a purely self-interested way, he's still useful. Especially if I'm right to be worried."
And with the right nudges, ideally using his Desires, he can be reliably be pointed at a problem to solve it.

Donna looks decidedly unimpressed. "And what if you're not?"

"Then he's still better for Chong-Mai than their former government was. Out lives might become a little more difficult, but he wouldn't be getting anything that he couldn't get anyway. Nothing he… Didn't have before the broadcast."
I mean, he probably had a few minor countries' governments in his pocket one way or another.

Artemis stares at me in disbelief. "Are you still trying to recruit him?"

"He's on the long list. If he actually.. genuinely turned, I'd be happy to-."
Lex Luthor with an Orange Ring. A scary thought, good or bad.

"Wait here!"

Artemis storms off… In the direction of Red Tornado's old room.
...Okay? Not sure what that's about...

Um, okay-.

"You remember-" Roy looks decidedly unhappy. "-how he kidnapped me and cut my arm off and cloned me."
Yes, well... that was a bad idea, but it could have been worse.

"Roy, if would have been far easier for him to kill you once he'd given William a copy of your memories. There was no self-interested reason to keep you alive and quite a good one not to."

Wallace is.. trying to make sense of The Question's file. "Do we know if this guy is actually working with Mad Hatter?"
Unless there's some sort of gradual decay in the memory transfer process. Maybe Guardian was simpler or less stable, or Roy's mind was too twisty to work the same way.

"Technically, no. I haven't seen them together and he didn't actually say that they are, but they share the same concern."

"No, I mean, are they working together, or did the guy who we know can mind control people who've be Justified just mind control The Question?"
Also a valid concern. One more unknowable factor.

"Don't know. The Question should be hardened against mind control, but that didn't help against Mannheim." Hm. "Actually-."

Wallace nods. "We need to check you for mind control, don't we? You got exposed when your clone hit you."
...Huh, that is actually a concern. I mean, his Enlightenment would make the control less effective, but it could still nudge him.

I.. walk towards the right zeta tube, and it's substantially upgraded security system. Set it to left tube, walk towards it-

"Recognised, Orange Lantern, B zero six."
I assume there's mental scanners or mystical wards that interfere with or detect that sort of thing.

-and out again.

"Now, that's not completely reliable, but without a dedicated magic user-."
Or someone with comparable tricks.

Donna steps forwards and lays her right hand on my head. "May Metis bless this one with mental sanctity."

I breathe in rather sharply as the blessing takes effect. And… I certainly feel a lot calmer now, but my basic analysis of the situation hasn't changed.
Upside, Metis being free of Zeus probably makes that more effective.

"No change that I can feel in how I feel about the situation."

There's a clank from above as the flight access to Red Tornado's room opens and Artemis drops down.
Still a strange idea, to have a random room just hanging over their moon pool. Edit: Ah, right, it's above the training room. Which makes it the control room for the training floor. Odd choice for an apartment, but I guess Reddy doesn't need much in the way of comforts...

The four of us look at her.

"Just picking something up." She gestures to me with her right thumb. "Is he mind controlled?"
gotta wonder what she grabbed.

Donna shakes her head. "Not as far as we can tell. And given how many wards he built into the rock, the Mountain should have interrupted anything like that the moment he got here." She frowns thoughtfully. "Does that mean I can influence the Peace Operatives?"

"You… Might be able to. Or at least disrupt Batman's control a little. I don't know how much focus it requires."
Certainly, Canis had some measure of influence, but Donna might be less potent than him in those terms.

Wallace shrugs. "Okay… So… What do you want to do about any of this?"

"If I knew that, I'd be doing it. All I've got at the moment is… Let Batman carry on, because all the people getting mind wiped are volunteers. Monitor exactly what he does and how far his reach has expended. Preserve other loci of power, so that if he does go off the deep end then it's still possible to fight him. And… That's it."
So, hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Business as usual, then.

Wallace's shoulders slump slightly. "Huh. Kind of assumed you'd have more than that."

"I never really cultivated contacts in conventional national governments. The Justice League has their hands full. I could ask Captain Comet if he can spare the time; he's good at reconstruction. But we're not close, and he's restoring Vega at the moment. And if Batman has some sort of mental subversion system active then I don't really want a telepath of his power level anywhere near it."
...Yeah, that would be bad. Especially if he can tap large numbers of people at once.

Wallace nods. "And if Hatter's got some kind of mental subversion system active we don't really want him near it either."

Roy shakes his head. "We can't do nothing because we're worried that something bad might happen. Couldn't you just ask Captain Comet what he thinks without bringing him here?"
And have him check OL over while he's there, too. He might not notice certain kinds of influence through unfamiliarity, but an additional opinion is always good.

I nod. "Yes, that's definitely possible. I'm sure he knows his limits better than me."

Artemis frowns. "Are there any other New Gods on Earth?"
That's the rub, though. How would you know without sending out a ping that would let any infiltrators know you're looking.

"I asked… Canis that. He doesn't think so, but he can't say for sure. Of course… If Doctor Tetch is one now, that means that he can probably use Batman's throne."

Wallace's eyes dip. "So he could control the Peace Operative O.M.A.C.s without the globe?"
Again, unknown factors. This is like juggling an equation with multiple variables that can move about on their own.

"I'm not sure how it works. From what I understand, New God technology generally synergises well with other pieces of New God technology. With the globe and the throne-."

Oh.

Artemis shrugs. "What?"
Especially if one can amplify the other...

"Well… It wouldn't just be him who can use it. I mean… Any New God, any magician skilled enough to fake it… Maybe… Batman himself, could use both of them together. So if we arrested Doctor Tetch…"

She nods. "Batman gets the globe. Which would also be bad."
Again, juggling unknown variables. Any number of which might actually be live, long-fuse grenades.

"Or it could be really good. Giving Batman a stronger ability to influence the world might really improve-. Ow!"

I give Artemis a hurt look as she lowers the rolled up newspaper… Which he acquired from Red Tornado's room. The she points it at me assertively. "Bad! No evil!"
Ah. Well, if it works, it works.

"Ah, okay?"

"Huh." She lowers it. "I didn't think that would work."
I think it was more the moment of surprise it inflicted than the actual bop.

Donna stares at us for a moment, then shakes her head, dismissing it. "So your going to Vega. What are we doing?"

Roy walks up to the computer and starts calling up information. "Batman wasn't a New God six months ago. We've got details of all the New God tech the League confiscated, right?"
Technically, he probably isn't one now, he just seems like one. Let's not go leaping to conclusions.

"Everything that hasn't been deliberately hidden, yes."

"So something happened in the last six months. I guess we get to be the detectives."
That much is accurate. Just don't let your assumptions get away from you.

So that's one more group turning a wary eye on Batman's operations. Bit of an outside bet, though, and any or all of their guesses might be off the mark. Still, better wariness than blind acceptance of a new status-quo. After all, if this system only needs a strong mind at the helm, then anyone with a strong mind could take over. They may not even need to be organic...
 
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Thank you, corrected.
Metis: I'm not a miracle worker!
Except literally.
That should say 'it'.
Thank you, corrected.
Still a strange idea, to have a random room just hanging over their moon pool.
No, it's over the main training area. The Mountain has four zeta tubes, two in the training room and two in the hangar.
 
Eh. Basically.

They treat him like an Exalt high on limit, because he had a few 'crazy' moments in the beginning (telepath = naked statue, Ophidian= giant cake/spun moon), and when he actually was in control of himself, he killed a justice league member. Who was kidnapping/enslaving a league member. And resisting a lawful, legitimate arrest. By killing a member of the arresting party.

They still clearly don't view themselves as having done anything wrong, so he's the crazy/dangerous one, just justifiable enough to let off the hook. (See Themiscyra and Diana protecting Zeus, a known rapist, from being found out as harassing Diana by sending her to Greek Hell)

They aren't entirely wrong - see him cleaning the Statue of Liberty, or getting distracted by the blood in the Evil Heartlands. He can be a little ADHD.

But ultimately, Paul is willing to kill, and lacks an entirely normal mindset - so they treat him like an Eldritch Abomination. Or Canis.

(Remember him working on Angelika when she first showed up? He doesn't quite fit. Superman would refuse to kill a Nazi - but he wouldn't proactively work on rehabilitating them, because Nazi. Paul's empathic vision is a huge advantage, and one that I don't feel the league/team has entirely internalized as a thing)
 
Donna steps forwards and lays her right hand on my head. "May Metis bless this one with mental sanctity."

"And in this corner, anointed in the blood of the dethroned Zeus, METIS! Our challenger will be knocking heads with the archdevil of internet trolls, the master who bends wills like balloon animals, THE BOSS SMILEY!"
"Contestants, the challenge today: complete one spell on the Orange Lantern's mind before your opponent; you are NOT permitted to subvert your opponent's spell. You may approach and begin when ready."

"Gong Yi Tanpai."
"Gong Yi Tanpai 🙂"
 
"No, I mean, are they working together, or did the guy who we know can mind control people who've be Justified just mind control The Question?"
'been'
Artemis stares at me in disbelief. "Are you still trying to recruit him?"
I am now wondering if Lex is once again entertaining the possibility of recruiting Oh El, or if he still believes (probably rightly) that it's hopeless.
I.. walk towards the right zeta tube, and it's substantially upgraded security system. Set it to left tube, walk towards it-
'its'
"If I knew that, I'd be doing it. All I've got at the moment is… Let Batman carry on, because all the people getting mind wiped are volunteers. Monitor exactly what he does and how far his reach has expended. Preserve other loci of power, so that if he does go off the deep end then it's still possible to fight him. And… That's it."
'expanded'
or
'extended'
I give Artemis a hurt look as she lowers the rolled up newspaper… Which he acquired from Red Tornado's room. The she points it at me assertively. "Bad! No evil!"
Cute!
After all, if this system only needs a strong mind at the helm, then anyone with a strong mind could take over. They may not even need to be organic...
Mister Atom stays winning. But honestly I kind of doubt it, does he even have a soul? I feel like a soul would be necessary to interface directly with New God technology.
 
I think he's like Red Tornado and is basically powered by some kind of radiation elemental, so he probably does have some kind of mystic presence.
Oh yeah, that's totally true. I regret doubting the illustrious Mister Atom for even a moment. Though if it's necessary to be a New God, I'm still not sure if that's possible for him. But maybe it is, beings on Earth tend to be compatible with ascension because of… the Life Entity? Was it ever explained? If it is the Life Entity that causes it, I suppose it might extend to Mister Atom since he was created on Earth. I wonder what he'd be the New God of.
 
Having seen The Sandman (the tv show) recently i remenbered that Paul is the heir of Desire in this fic canon. Can we get a few chapters on Paul of the Endless? 🙏. Mostly to see batman throwing the towel; "... what? Batman is taking vacations? why?".
 
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