With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Doccer]

Mr. Zoat?
Somethings bothering me. What about the Justice Lords?
We're they not on Earth 12 long enough to notice Peter's company is made up of a legion of villians? If they did notice how did they react? If they didn't how do you think their reaction would've been? Did Lord Batman show them before they entered or did he keep it secret to play them a certain way? If there was no interaction did Peter suspect anything with the sudden costume switch and lethality of Lord Superman's lobotomy on Doomsday?
Can you make an omake or something of the Justice Lords confronting Peter? I imagine they wouldn't do anything obviously threatening just test the waters a bit. Maybe get confused as to even how?, seeing Lord Wonder Woman get shocked seeing, among others, Barbara in a happy and healthy relationship NOT attacking. Would/has she taunted Diana about complaining how bad men and Man's World is yet it took just one man intelligently talking and understanding her and coming up with a beneficial avenue to grow where as Diana's fists and preachy admonishments never really went anywhere?

 

[Vaermina]

Realigned

6th February
07:08 GMT -5

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Awww, I was hoping for more Peter.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

"Um." Holly stares at Artemis's tight-fitting work out trousers as she and Paula jog closer to our meet-up point in Robinson Park. "Damn."

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Well, at least someone appreciates super-heroing's aesthetic benefits.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Are they having a fight?"

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Gee, what do you think, Captain Obvious?

Not often, in reality, because neither of us are based there and we don't visit the same parts of the company. But it's a believable place for us to have met as far as a casual observer would be concerned if a) they knew who I was b) they don't know who Artemis is c) they know who Wallace is but don't know that he's Kid Flash, and, d), probably some other conditions as well.

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The joy of secret identities...

Zatanna hasn't so far decided to tell everyone my age, and as I briefly meet Paula's eyes I'm sorely tempted to just come out with it.

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My word, that opening is awkward. Perhaps 'So far, Zatanna hasn't...' would flow better?

It's… Like the reason Bob gives in The Atrocity Archives for homosexuals being -historically- banned from the British intelligence services: being gay meant that you could be blackmailed by foreign agents… Because being gay meant that you could be fired, which was only a problem because of the rule banning homosexuals. After someone pointed out this catch 22 they changed the rules so that homosexuals were fine as long as they weren't in the closet, because if they were out and proud they couldn't be blackmailed about it.

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Of course, they wouldn't be a threat anyway because they wouldn't be employed any longer... Seriously...

If someone actually did blackmail me… What exactly happens? It's not as if I'm obsessed with public opinion, and… Compared to Grand Theft Baking Supplies, I doubt the fact that I told people I was twelve years younger than I actually am is going to arouse all that much excitement. Threatening to tell my friends? A bit awkward, but nothing compared to how anything someone could blackmail me into doing would make me feel. Police? I'm not a US citizen and I doubt that Hippolyta would care. I'm publically nineteen, so other than the fact that I'd be able to buy alcohol around here not a lot would change legally.

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At most, some people would be shocked and a little offended...

"No. The marathon. I had to run from Athens to Sparta, retracing the route of Pheidippides. There's some nice countryside in Greece, but I can't honestly say that I recommend it."

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Isn't that like 100 kilometres or so? Damn, Diana is hardcore.

"When I was younger, I trained myself so that I was ready to commit whatever crime was most profitable. After I recovered from my injury, I tried to get back to that same level of fitness. But I no longer have anything to aim for."

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Not in the mood to become a vigilante, eh? Then again, Gotham...

I look right and see Holly and Karon cut across the grass to catch up with us, their disagreement apparently resolved. I'm not seeing any real emotional damage, but… Come on, Holly! At this point you should know that while Karon doesn't expect you to police your eyes she does expect you to police your mouth a little.

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She is still a teenager, right? Forethought is not a common ability at that age.

Less dangerous that plenty of things she's fought on Earth."

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Less dangerous than plenty of things she's fought on Earth."

"I am sure that you are right, but I still worry. We had not fully reconnected when she left. I am not.. complaining that you found her the opportunity. If she must fight, then I would prefer her to fight for a good cause than for the League of Shadows. But I miss her."

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Methinks you're not the only one.

Hmm... Wonder where this episode is going...

 

[Ganurath]

Mr. Zoat?
Somethings bothering me. What about the Justice Lords?
We're they not on Earth 12 long enough to notice Peter's company is made up of a legion of villians? If they did notice how did they react? If they didn't how do you think their reaction would've been? Did Lord Batman show them before they entered or did he keep it secret to play them a certain way? If there was no interaction did Peter suspect anything with the sudden costume switch and lethality of Lord Superman's lobotomy on Doomsday?
Can you make an omake or something of the Justice Lords confronting Peter? I imagine they wouldn't do anything obviously threatening just test the waters a bit. Maybe get confused as to even how?, seeing Lord Wonder Woman get shocked seeing, among others, Barbara in a happy and healthy relationship NOT attacking. Would/has she taunted Diana about complaining how bad men and Man's World is yet it took just one man intelligently talking and understanding her and coming up with a beneficial avenue to grow where as Diana's fists and preachy admonishments never really went anywhere?

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They were too busy bootstrapping what the Justice League had set up in order to properly crack down on villains, and even then they'd be more focused on the ones doing actual crime. At most, they'd swing in, check on things, see that they weren't the only interdimensional travelers cleaning up this backwater dimension, and go along their merry way.

 

[moralrelativity]

Hmm... Wonder where this episode is going...

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Perhaps something significant will happen and Paul wishes he had his other rings?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr. Zoat?
Somethings bothering me. What about the Justice Lords?
We're they not on Earth 12 long enough to notice Peter's company is made up of a legion of villians? If they did notice how did they react? If they didn't how do you think their reaction would've been? Did Lord Batman show them before they entered or did he keep it secret to play them a certain way? If there was no interaction did Peter suspect anything with the sudden costume switch and lethality of Lord Superman's lobotomy on Doomsday?
Can you make an omake or something of the Justice Lords confronting Peter? I imagine they wouldn't do anything obviously threatening just test the waters a bit. Maybe get confused as to even how?, seeing Lord Wonder Woman get shocked seeing, among others, Barbara in a happy and healthy relationship NOT attacking. Would/has she taunted Diana about complaining how bad men and Man's World is yet it took just one man intelligently talking and understanding her and coming up with a beneficial avenue to grow where as Diana's fists and preachy admonishments never really went anywhere?

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I don't think that the Lords were on Earth for more than a couple of days, perhaps only a day. They probably weren't aware that Peter exists, and I doubt that they would have had a problem with his work.

Zatanna hasn't so far decided to tell everyone my age, and as I briefly meet Paula's eyes I'm sorely tempted to just come out with it.
My word, that opening is awkward. Perhaps 'So far, Zatanna hasn't...' would flow better?
Less dangerous that plenty of things she's fought on Earth."
Less dangerous than plenty of things she's fought on Earth."

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Thank you, corrected.

Perhaps something significant will happen and Paul wishes he had his other rings?

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This is just a fluff section before we move onto the meat of the episode.

 

[dxdragon]

"I'll see if I can come up with something."

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And then everything ended in fire. And at least 4 chapters will end with either an explosion or someone getting attacked.

Who knows, Jade might end up breaking up with Paul for some Alien booty/ wanting to focus on her career, leading to PaulxBlackfire?

I do hope the age thing gets resolved soon.

 

[Sockmonkey]

Paula's speech seems a little stiff there at the end due to not using contractions.

 

[Mquz]

Paula's speech seems a little stiff there at the end due to not using contractions.

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Is she replaced by an alien? Is that why she doesn't know how he knew Wally?

 

[Ganurath]

Is she replaced by an alien? Is that why she doesn't know how he knew Wally?

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Oh, she knows. She can't say in public how she knows, to protect both Wallace's secret identity, and that of her younger daughter.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Does talking about how they hope Jade doesn't have to fight count as tempting murphy?

Also: Laundry Files! Yuus!

 

[Vaermina]

Does talking about how they hope Jade doesn't have to fight count as tempting murphy?

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Don't worry, she's Paul's girlfriend, and that gives her plot armor invincibility.

 

[Lazurman]

Don't worry, she's Paul's girlfriend, and that gives her plot armor invincibility.

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Doubt.

Oh come the fuck on, now you're just being blatantly petty.

 

[Steelplaza]

I don't recall how old Holly is in this story. Is she young enough that checking out an obvious teenager like Artemis isn't too creepy?

 

[Mr Zoat]

I don't recall how old Holly is in this story. Is she young enough that checking out an obvious teenager like Artemis isn't too creepy?

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Holly's 23 at this point, and Artemis is... 17, I think? Holly also doesn't know how old Artemis is.

 

[Prince Charon]

As an autistic, I really hate that term. Even if it was made up by other autistics. It's pointlessly elitist in a way that makes no damn sense.

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I'm sorry? I don't know another term that fits what I'm trying to convey as well.

I don't recall how old Holly is in this story. Is she young enough that checking out an obvious teenager like Artemis isn't too creepy?

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Maybe? I think she was retconned to be over eighteen instead of under eighteen, but an eighteen or nineteen-year-old checking out a sixteen-year-old is only creepy if someone is using really strict definitions (or there are other factors not listed, of course).

EDIT: Likewise a 23 year old checking out a 17 year old.

 

[Chaoswind]

I thought Holly was nineteen during the world split episode meaning she should be twenty one at the most... Unless I am remembering wrong.

 

[Buggy123]

Doubt.

Oh come the fuck on, now you're just being blatantly petty.

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Yes. I don't normally make character references when debating Vaermina, because ideally it shouldn't matter who is presenting a argument at all in regards to whether it's true or not. But I wouldn't call you wrong.

But in this case, I wouldn't say Vaermina is wrong, per se. It's just that plot armor is a really, really common thing; it's no mortal sin for a character to have it. It's so uncommon for any sort of literature to get rid of named characters, that it's very noteworthy and is even a defining feature of some works (see: Game of Thrones).

It's really, really, really fucking common in DC. Seriously, Superman is here to stay unless he manages to fall into obscurity, and that isn't happening anytime soon. Yes, sure, comics "kill" him to be noteworthy and stand out. And they're either non-canon, or they revive him with clockwork regularity a bit later. No reasonable comic reader would stop in the middle of a fight sequence, and think "oh, wow, Superman is in real danger! He could actually die for good here!".


Its a pretty inevitable part of fiction, owing to the unavoidable combination of "This work focuses on character X" and "The story will continue for Y length". It's no great leap of logic to realize that at bare minimum, the story isn't going to kill off the main character; it can't, not without breaking one of those tenants.


Jade isn't necessarily core to the store, but she's not substantially more likely to die when you look at the details. So, yeah, plot armor. Big deal. If you don't like it, go check out the non-fiction section in your local library, because that's the only place you won't find more plot armor.

At least it's done well.

 

[Aeess]

I thought Holly was nineteen during the world split episode meaning she should be twenty one at the most... Unless I am remembering wrong.

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Originally Holly was 17 and was on of those who stayed on the child side when the world was split, but her age was later retconned to 22 because Zoat wanted to get the backstory in, where she stabs Batman in 1999 on his first day.

 

[Coda]

Speaking of cosmic rods, from what I remember from the comics (and they might very well have gotten around that limit afterwards) the cosmic rod is star powered. Which according to DC writers mean that it can't recharge during the day.

Maybe one could attach them to solar panels, so solar power at day star power at night.

Or maybe Zoat isn't using that limitation because it doesn't actually make sense....

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"Doesn't actually make sense" indeed, considering the sun is a bloody star.

My speculation is that it's actually powered by something else coming from space and intense solar radiation (that is, sunlight) interferes with the collection process.

 

[Chaoswind]

Originally Holly was 17 and was on of those who stayed on the child side when the world was split, but her age was later retconned to 22 because Zoat wanted to get the backstory in, where she stabs Batman in 1999 on his first day.

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That sounds like a bad reason to get a retcon and more like he wanted a reason to get her more age appropriate for the eros pornfic.

Holly being in the child side has more narrative weight and its more important in the fic than she randomly stabbing Batman for a background history.

 

[FreeGod]

Jade isn't necessarily core to the store, but she's not substantially more likely to die when you look at the details. So, yeah, plot armor. Big deal. If you don't like it, go check out the non-fiction section in your local library, because that's the only place you won't find more plot armor.

At least it's done well.

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She could die, but it would just lead to a story arc about how Paul brings her back to life. Much easier in a world with an afterlife.

 

[Ngamer11]

Mr Zoat, how did Dame Carol Danvers react to seeing the Zamarons of Universe 16? Befuddlement, disappointment, or curiosity?

 

[TheEyes]

She could die, but it would just lead to a story arc about how Paul brings her back to life. Much easier in a world with an afterlife.

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Has Jade converted to a religion that makes resurrection a possibility? Don't think it's ever come up; frankly I can't remember all that many deep conversations she's had with Paul about religion.

Or, hell, I have a hard time remembering anything they talk about other than fulfilling her needs for career, validation, etc. I'm of the opinion that some of the next few arcs are going to feature Paul and Jade growing further apart, maybe breaking up given the distance, both emotionally and galactic-ally, between them.

 

[FreeGod]

Has Jade converted to a religion that makes resurrection a possibility? Don't think it's ever come up; frankly I can't remember all that many deep conversations she's had with Paul about religion.

Or, hell, I have a hard time remembering anything they talk about other than fulfilling her needs for career, validation, etc. I'm of the opinion that some of the next few arcs are going to feature Paul and Jade growing further apart, maybe breaking up given the distance, both emotionally and galactic-ally, between them.

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Also the fact that the story is now written on QQ opens up many relationship possibilities that were definitely closed before.

 

[Buggy123]

Has Jade converted to a religion that makes resurrection a possibility? Don't think it's ever come up; frankly I can't remember all that many deep conversations she's had with Paul about religion.

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I remember OL discussing it with her at some point; IIRC, she's still close-enough to christian to go to them, and she's a former supervillain so... Hell. Luckily, OL has actually invaded Hell before, with tougher objectives than recovering a single damned soul. And hey, Hell is real to get to! It'd be a 20 minute adventure, tops.

Some of them, yes.


Depending on the continuity, yes. At one point in the comics the rod was able to create a construct replica of itself. That's a bit ridiculous and the AI support probably isn't that good in this continuity, but... yes, cosmic rods can make constructs.


Yes. How do you think Starman ended up where he did?


Not directly, but I would be very surprised if it couldn't be integrated into a schizo-tech computer that can.

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If we are using the same scale of "has all the abilities shown in the comics" that Zoat used for Power Rings, then yes to everything but the subspace pocket.

With the addition of being able to dimension hop and never needing to recharge.

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Hmm, alright, I think it's come up before but I had still forgotten how versatile cosmic rods are.

But still, I'd expect it to be overall inferior, regardless. Single human developing schizotech v.s. multiple members of one of the smartest races in the galaxy iteratively improving a design over their multi-billion year lifespan. Plus, if cosmic rods could compete directly with powerful-but-mentally-corrosive orange rings, the Maltusians would probably just use a version of cosmic rods instead of Emotional Spectrum tech.

And on a more direct level, OL has a cosmic rod and a orange ring, and he saves the limited orange ring for emergencies. And you don't usually keep a limited-and-inferior device as a backup; unless you're concerned about the better version breaking, forcing you to fall back on a more reliable tool... and if that was a concern, why not put a second cosmic rod in the safe as well?

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Come now Karen, don't tell me you're that insecure. You're relationship is fucked if you are.

That being said...come on Holly.

All this reminded me that Jade is a thing, and I had actually completely forgotten that OL is supposed to be very much in love with her. Which is a thing, but doesn't even remotely feel like a thing.

 

[Vaermina]

Hmm, alright, I think it's come up before but I had still forgotten how versatile cosmic rods are.

But still, I'd expect it to be overall inferior, regardless. Single human developing schizotech v.s. multiple members of one of the smartest races in the galaxy iteratively improving a design over their multi-billion year lifespan. Plus, if cosmic rods could compete directly with powerful-but-mentally-corrosive orange rings, the Maltusians would probably just use a version of cosmic rods instead of Emotional Spectrum tech.

And on a more direct level, OL has a cosmic rod and a orange ring, and he saves the limited orange ring for emergencies. And you don't usually keep a limited-and-inferior device as a backup; unless you're concerned about the better version breaking, forcing you to fall back on a more reliable tool... and if that was a concern, why not put a second cosmic rod in the safe as well?

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The Malthusians don't have cosmic rod technology in the comics.

In fact, they didn't even invent Emotional Spectrum technology, they were taught how to create it by a dimensional traveling human from the future of Earth 15.

 

[TheEyes]

And on a more direct level, OL has a cosmic rod and a orange ring, and he saves the limited orange ring for emergencies. And you don't usually keep a limited-and-inferior device as a backup; unless you're concerned about the better version breaking, forcing you to fall back on a more reliable tool... and if that was a concern, why not put a second cosmic rod in the safe as well?

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Doctor Theodore Knight worked on the Manhattan Project, and spent some time in a psychiatric hospital, having had a breakdown over the harm he feels he caused. Peter used the orange ring in this case because using the rod that Dr Knight gave him for personal protection in order to facilitate a nuclear strike on someone, even if said someone is an alien invader, would be particularly callous.

 

[Buggy123]

The Malthusians don't have cosmic rod technology in the comics.

In fact, they didn't even invent Emotional Spectrum technology, they were taught how to create it by a dimensional traveling human from the future of Earth 15.

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For the first point: okay, but they could probably invent it. They're Multi-billion year old omnidisciplinary geniuses, to the point that they only really specialize once they start getting into the really fancy tech like power rings. Surely, they could independently come up with cosmic rods.

For the second: okay, but that's probably not the case here. And did that one human from Earth-15 travel through the entire multiverse, and teach them all about Emotional Spectrum technology? If so, that seems pretty absurd and unlikely for a lot of reasons.

Doctor Theodore Knight worked on the Manhattan Project, and spent some time in a psychiatric hospital, having had a breakdown over the harm he feels he caused. Peter used the orange ring in this case because using the rod that Dr Knight gave him for personal protection in order to facilitate a nuclear strike on someone, even if said someone is an alien invader, would be particularly callous.

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Fair enough, but that'd still be a really weird to keep it in reserve. He did outright say that he was keeping it for emergencies, and if the only reason to use it is something like that, then that would be a extremely specific and strange emergency preparation.