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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Sorrow said:
What does OCP stand for?
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The others left off the excellent quote:

"An Outside Context Problem was the sort of thing most civilisations encountered just once, and which they tended to encounter rather in the same way a sentence encountered a full stop."

Essentially, an OCP isn't just a problem a society is unprepared for, but one which they have no reason to believe could exist. Say, if our world was suddenly attacked by the Red Lantern Corps, or historically, certain native populations dealing with invasion by people with guns.
 
Realigned (part 6):
Mr Zoat said:
Best Starscream voice. "That's all I ever hear! After today no one will need to use that name again!""
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Double quotation mark at the end.
Unless those "assasins" had no idea what Green Lantern is, this looks like deliberate sabotage. Conflict between honor and orders, which we were hinted at?
 
Ngamer11 said:
Mr Zoat, in the TV Tropes entry for this fic, there is a trivia page filled with the things you said will happen in the future. It's still not full, but you can look it up to check if you forgot something.
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Maybe, but the TV Tropes entry for this story isn't always accurate.
inglorius said:
Realigned (part 6):

Double quotation mark at the end.
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Thank you, corrected.

Also, mildly disapointed that no one came up with the name of the episode where Starscream said it.
Unless those "assasins" had no idea what Green Lantern is, this looks like deliberate sabotage. Conflict between honor and orders, which we were hinted at?
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They thought they had eight minutes.
 
Mquz said:
This is likely a capture / bodyguard team.
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So, is there any chance they are actually an (un)official protection detail for the person OL is trying to talk to?
I mean this is someone who was censured for War Hound related activatism, and now War Hounds come barking busting in after OL and Company show up, attacking them first.
...
Like imagine if this was a high status civil rights advocate back in the era of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Then someone strange and glowing with power shows up out of nowhere, and suddenly the demographic she was advocating for come barging in... and go after not her, but the people confronting her.
...
Any chance OL was not the only one who thought she might be a likely assassination target, and these War Hounds were on preemptive lookout for an assassination team showing up, and OL looked like a probable would be assassin when he suddenly showed up?
...
Like...
*On stakeout and bored...On stakeout and bored...OH SHIT A SPACE MERCENARY JUST TELEPORTED IN!, Everyone, start hauling ass, because we need to move in NOW.*
 
Handlewithcare said:
Ah, evil stupidity, how you weren't missed.

"Sir, they just explained to her how they are both high ranking Lanterns coming from a world that produced seven Lanterns total"
"Excellent. Order our men to attack using conventional weapons. Oh, and have the Hounds go for hand to hand combat"
"Brilliant sir. It will be done immediately"
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Supervillains tend to do the darnedest things.

At this rate wonder if members of the secret supervillain society from Wanted will slip up and do something as stupid as kidnapping Paul, (or one of the superheroes or other associates that he's given VERY constructive advice to), from the universe of Earth-16.

After the whole fiasco with The Crime Syndicate, I can't really see him being as tolerant or accepting of "The Fraternity" AT ALL.

Finding out exactly HOW they manipulated reality to get rid of every superhero on their Earth could also be helpful in finding out how to prevent such an absolute horrific event from EVER occuring on Earth-16.
 
The part I find interesting is how quickly these guys showed up. Were they actively monitoring her with a kill team prepped?

And as mentioned the question of if shooting Guy in the shoulder was intentional.

Maybe bodyguards, but if so stupidly trigger happy.
 
Bramble Thorn said:
as not the only one who thought she might be a likely assassination target, and these War Hounds were on preemptive lookout for an assassination team showing up, and OL looked like a probable would be assassin when he suddenly showed up?
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Her father is a plutocrat with a history of getting a warhound bodyguard at least once, who survived at least one assassination attempt on himself and his wife got murdered.

So yes, these being bodyguards hired by Daddy Warbucks to protect his little girl is certainly within the realm of possibility.
 
So....Their snipers got two shots off before Guy could react and still didn't get through his environmental shield? So....are they running, surrendering, or stupid?

Bramble Thorn said:
So, is there any chance they are actually an (un)official protection detail for the person OL is trying to talk to?
I mean this is someone who was censured for War Hound related activatism, and now War Hounds come barking busting in after OL and Company show up, attacking them first.
...
Like imagine if this was a high status civil rights advocate back in the era of Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Then someone strange and glowing with power shows up out of nowhere, and suddenly the demographic she was advocating for come barging in... and go after not her, but the people confronting her.
...
Any chance OL was not the only one who thought she might be a likely assassination target, and these War Hounds were on preemptive lookout for an assassination team showing up, and OL looked like a probable would be assassin when he suddenly showed up?
...
Like...
*On stakeout and bored...On stakeout and bored...OH SHIT A SPACE MERCENARY JUST TELEPORTED IN!, Everyone, start hauling ass, because we need to move in NOW.*
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That seems unlikely. Paul was there long enough for her to get changed and then she let Guy in and exchanged a bit of friendly conversation before the snipers and warhounds struck. That would be a pathetically slow response for any kind of protection detail. Like "your services are no longer required" slow.
 
Mr Zoat said:
They thought they had eight minutes.
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That settles that one. Yes they are an assassination team that was given the order to "kill her ASAP" because the higher ups thought they had eight minutes to do the deed and order their assets to likely self terminate... The team didn't receive counter orders when the time frame shortened dramatically.
 
Eh, the warhounds did start out barehanded, so it looks like a capture attempt.
Then again, they did open by sniping Guy.

I kind of assume that whoever is in-charge here just assumes that their supersoldiers can handle anything, and sending three warhounds to take on two enemy combatants and one civillain is overkill.

So, basically they have no idea what a Lantern is capable of.
 
iamnuff said:
Eh, the warhounds did start out barehanded, so it looks like a capture attempt.
Then again, they did open by sniping Guy.

I kind of assume that whoever is in-charge here just assumes that their supersoldiers can handle anything, and sending three warhounds to take on two enemy combatants and one civillain is overkill.

So, basically they have no idea what a Lantern is capable of.
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They probably do. Sector Green Lanterns are killed with surprise attacks all the damn time (remember how Jack said how high the turn over from rookies is), its only the veteran sector green lanterns that you have to always be worried about... They probably believed they could handle things before Guy and Paul got there, and when Guy got there (they may have not known Paul was already there due to greedportation being a very advanced hard to detect technique) they distracted Guy while the three warhounds would hopefully have the seconds they would need to tear the female civilian apart... However Paul was already there so their attempt was ultra fucked.
 
Realigned (part 11)
  • Threadmarks
    • 6th February
    17:14 GMT

    "Yes Father, I'm fine."

    Guy floats back in through the wrecked window, five locals in… High grade stealth armour, being dragged along after him on construct hooks. He deposits them on the apartment floor and generates construct bonds around them.

    "Paul, you wanna..?"

    I nod and start scanning, removing concealed weapons, integrated weapons and… Two suicide devices each, one of which would have caused serious physical damage to the user's brain. That's… Interesting. There are ways to extract information from a dead brain, but-. No, no, that's probably just a side effect.

    "Two Lanterns were here to speak to m-. No-. Not about that. Just in general."

    "Your guys say anythin' yet?"

    I look over to where 'my guys' are sitting on the floor, patiently awaiting a drive to do anything. They don't wear armour, just the sort of reinforced cycle shorts that Xor does.

    "I haven't asked them anything. I strongly suspect that what Ms Ton says will determine what we ask them."

    He glances up. "Fixed the roof?"

    "It occurs to me that it might be advantageous not to hand this over to the local authorities. These people look like 'suicide' risks to me."

    "Well yeah, if they're suicide risks it'd be irresponsible t' hand 'em over."

    I nod and use my ring to repair the balcony area.

    "I know. I love you too, Father." Onigar puts the holocom down. Then she sighs. "Did any of them die?"

    "Nah."

    "That's… Unfortunate."

    Guy frowns. "How come?"

    "Because it's easier to disappear a body than a living person, particularly as Green Lanterns aren't supposed to kill their suspects."

    Onigar nods. "It may be easiest to simply let them go."

    "After.. questioning them."

    "They won't say anything we could believe."

    Guy shakes his head. "Paul's got ways of making people talk."

    "Even if you tortured them, you have no way to confirm what they tell you."

    "Not torture. I can alter a person's motives. Make them want to tell us things. And then change them back afterwards." Hm. She did strongly imply that she thought this apartment was bugged. I walk over to the oldest of Guy's apprehendees and kneel down in front of her. "You see… Sometimes, without doing anything particularly wrong in terms of your role in your society, it is possible to end up in a completely untenable position. For example, I suspect that the reason these people came after you was because a man we spoke to earlier reported the contact and a decision was made that they needed to silence you before we got here. Which means -as you originally concluded- this is now a failure on their part. Heck, I imagine that whoever was monitoring this called their superiors in just as soon as it became clear how badly it was going."

    "And now? They know we're going to find out everything that they wanted to prevent you telling us. And that their soldiers just took a shot at an Honour Guard Lantern. And while the Guardians might have ruled that mutilating children wasn't something they were prepared to intervene over, a direct and knowing attack on a member of the Corps will probably result in them giving Lantern Gardner a little more leeway to investigate however he likes. And Lantern Gardner does not like the concept of child soldiers very much."

    "A person… In a controlling position… Might like to contemplate the odds of someone above them in the chain of command… Deciding that sacrificing them to placate the Green Lantern Corps would be the sensible plan. And that the faster 'rogue elements' could be disavowed, the more likely such a scheme would be to work." I smile. "Just a thought."

    I stand back up, Guy looking at me askance.

    "What was that?"

    "Oh, just smoothing our path a little. Ring, contact… Orange One Five Eight Two."

    "Compliance."

    Xor's head appears over my ring.

    "Just intercepted an assassination attempt. Be on your guard in case some idiot decides to go for you as well."

    He nods, then his head vanishes.

    "You have one of my species as a Lantern?"

    "Yes. How do you think I even heard about your civilisation?"

    "Alright, let's not get distracted here. I've got two big problems with the Alignment right now. Number one, doin' that to orphan kids. Number two, killin' them if they don't die." He walks a few steps towards his captives and prods the closest with his right boot. "Not sayin' there ain't other stuff I don't like on top a' that, but I gotta start somewhere. So. What's goin' on?"

    "Corruption breeds corruption. Laws… Originally meant to allow decent rulers to deal flexibly with complex problems now let dishonourable ones do whatever they like to preserve the system that gives them power."

    "'kay?"

    She shakes her head. "The War Hounds were originally a veteran unit, soldiers whose loyalty was proven over years of good service. But over time, the prestige drew well-connected officers looking only to boost their careers. Quality soldiers no longer wanted to serve there."

    "Okay, but how do you get from there to cuttin' kids' brains out?"

    "It was intended to augment volunteers in our military. And… At first, that was what it was used for. They found out that young recruits managed the transformation better. Then… I don't know quite when they began using orphans."

    "Guess it beat having them euthanized."

    She shakes her head. "That was gradual as well. A law which was supposed to allow terminally ill people with no next of kin to end their lives-. But… Yes, I suppose that it did. They were already being used in combat before knowledge of what they were became widespread. I think-. I charitably think that people assumed that they were… Older children without other prospects."

    "But they ain't."

    "No. Adolescents, children… They will take infants, if they can get them."

    "Why are they so fixated on 'honour'?"

    "It's a sick joke. The original War Hounds were renowned for their honour, for their courage and moral decency." She shakes her head. "At first, they tried to program the children to simply be loyal and obedient, but that resulted in them being used by their direct supervisors in too many assassinations. They would not question their orders, so tended to follow the most recent one. So they changed the program to create soldiers who were loyal to the original code, but without any ability to discern that those giving them orders did not hold to it."

    "What happens when they work it out?"

    "I know roughly what proportion of those former War Hounds who left the military were murdered. I have no idea how many are murdered while they still serve."

    "Why does your government care about people finding out?"

    "We are used to being beaten down. To being compelled to be loyal. But there are still limits to what people will accept. I doubt that the nature of the War Hounds being more widely known would cause outright civil unrest, but there would be… Acts of disobedience. Of uncooperation."

    "Why do you care so much?"

    "My mother used to work in their laboratories."
     
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    • So Xor was framed for her murder and then sent off-planet. That's actually kind of odd for an oppressive government. He was so badly framed for it that everyone on this planet who hears it was a War Hound who supposedly did it realizes there's something not right.

    So depending on the kind of person her mother was this was either an attempt to "Kill someone horrible, frame someone no one would actually believe did it, and get him off-planet." or she was actually a good person and this was all a massive series of extremely bad decisions by an oppressive government.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    That's… Interested. There are ways to...
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    That's… Interesting. There are ways to...

    "Two Lanterns were here to speak to m-. No-. Not about that. Just in general."
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    Not about what?

    "It occurs to me that it might be advantageous not to hand this over to the local authorities. These people look like 'suicide' risks to me."
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    The kind of suicide that involve high-velocity personal weaponry to the back of the head...

    "I know. I love you too, Father." Onigar puts the holocom down. Then she sighs. "Did any of them die?"
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    Interesting that her father called her right then.

    "Not torture. I can alter a person's motives. Make them want to tell us things. And then change them back afterwards." Hm. She did strongly imply that she thought this apartment was bugged.
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    I hope you were jamming...

    "And now? They know we're going to find out everything that they wanted to prevent you telling us. And that their soldiers just took a shot at an Honour Guard Lantern. And while the Guardians might have ruled that mutilating children wasn't something they were prepared to intervene over, a direct and knowing attack on a member of the Corps will probably result in them giving Lantern Gardner a little more leeway to investigate however he likes. And Lantern Gardner does not like the concept of child soldiers very much."
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    In other words, they failed the "Don't make me come over there" challenge.

    "Oh, just smoothing our path a little. Ring, contact… Orange One Five Eight Two."
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    Interesting that he chooses not to use Xor's name. Keeping the lady in the dark?

    "Corruption breeds corruption. Laws… Originally meant to allow decent rulers to deal flexibly with complex problems now let dishonourable ones do whatever they like to preserve the system that gives them power."
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    The problem with giving those who benefit from the laws the power to write them...

    "No. Adolescents, children… They will take infants, if they can get them."
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    Guy's outrage growing... And ours too.

    "It's a sick joke. The original War Hounds were renowned for their honour, for their courage and moral decency." She shakes her head. "At first, they tried to program the children to simply be loyal and obedient, but that resulted in them being used by their direct supervisors in too many assassinations. They would not question their orders, so tended to follow the most recent one. So they changed the program to create soldiers who were loyal to the original code, but without any ability to discern that those giving them orders did not hold to it."
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    Now I see why you laughed at my mention of refusing bad orders...

    "We are used to being beaten down. To being compelled to be loyal. But there are still limits to what people will accept. I doubt that the nature of the War Hounds being more widely known would cause outright civil unrest, but there would be… Acts of disobedience. Of uncooperativon."
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    In other words, what those in power fear most: people with reason to rise up.

    "My mother used to work in their laboratories."
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    And there's a possible reason for her death...

    This just gets more and more twisted... One time when I hope OL leaves the place a little more shaken up.
     
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    Just watched the most recent episode.

    Apparently, Metron 16 stole credit for inventing Mother Boxes.

    d7dqe3j-9e2d3f89-3ef6-4ceb-9efe-7d876bdd86c2.png
     
    Handlewithcare said:
    Welp, time for OL to implode another society.
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    Well, normally you would have to have long internal moral debates about reordering someone's core values before you do it. But sometimes I think just being fair is sufficient. If they are value hacking the War Dogs children, accept that as a tacit admission if their acceptance of value hacking as legitimate. This sounds like a problem that could be solved by branding everyone tangentially related to the affair, and their bosses and bosses until you reach the top. Give everyone branded the War Dog Honor Programming (minus the blind spot about someone giving you orders possibly being dishonorable) the orphans got.

    What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And hopefully, just maybe stamp out some of the pervasive corruption. Seems like it would have some high potential payoff for a low implementation cost.
     
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