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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Ej190 said:
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda lost ..
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Politics are happening and it's complicated.

Being slightly less glib, if you remember the guys OL dropped off all the slaves he freed to, right outside of Vega? They're the Crown Imperium and a reasonable authority figure/group from what we've seen. However, they're outside Vega so if they intervened, all of the groups inside Vega would close ranks and fight the foreigners. So the Crown Imperium is having to support a proxy war by backing the less-awful Gordanian Clans who didn't like the Citadel (which Paul destroyed). A large part of why the Crown Imperium can't overtly act is because of that massive peace treaty Paul arranged directly after coming to Vega in the first place as well. The main guy Paul is talking to here seems to understand why Paul did what he did and, more importantly, didn't do what he didn't do (such as aide them in their own struggle against the Citadel remnants), but he's still kind of salty about not getting the support he would have if Paul had done things differently and is trying to use that to extort actual help from the guy who took down the Orange Beast of Vega.

Paul, on the other hand, isn't entirely thrilled with the guy's attitude and while these might be the less-awful Gordanian clans OP correction, the one Paul is talking to is a Karnan, not a Gordanian, they're still not super-good guys as a whole. Their race, as a whole, was more or less allied to the Citadel after all and really fucked up the Tamaranian homeworld/civilization. Paul also understands that leveraging them into a better position is probably the best move to put the least-awful faction ahead politically and militarily to work for long-term peace and good karma.
 
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Chojin Patriarch said:
Cannibalism only counts if they eat their own species. The Spider guild are simply carnivorious.
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There's a significant difference between carnivorism and anthropophagy, you know. Sadly, the literal definition of anthropophagy doesn't seem to consider nonhuman intelligence, but English is like that.

To quote Schlock Mercenary - "Food that talks isn't food."
 
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Khettien said:
There's a significant difference between carnivorous and anthropophagy, you know. Sadly, the literal definition of anthropophagy doesn't seem to consider nonhuman intelligence, but English is like that.

To quote Schlock Mercenary - "Food that talks isn't food."
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....... I wonder what a parrot dish might be like.
 
Simonbob said:
....... I wonder what a parrot dish might be like.
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Honestly, if you have space ships and FTL but you're still making meat by growing a entire animal, you're probably either stupid, barbarians, or rich. Or all of the above.

You can eat whatever kind of meat you want if all you have to do is drop some muscle cell samples into a vat filled with the local equivalent of 20$ worth of chemicals and nutrients. Growing a entire animal is inefficient; it grows slowly, it's filled with things that aren't tasty meat, and they do lots of things other than 'grow more meat as quickly as possible'.
 
This update is the perfect segway into REAL Grayven (from original pauls universe) to make his entrance and conquer Karna. I believe he has a bunch of Gordanian clans and fleets as his troops and that they control a planet/systems they renamed 'New Gordane', so he may intercede to save the Gordanian 'homeworld' (because as stated, everyone in Vega was seeded there by the psions) and stop the slave revolt. He may even add the Karnans to his warband, and he could probably recruit more people from Vega, and nominally add most of the sector to his holdings; would be funny if he marries Black Fire too.
 
Buggy123 said:
Honestly, if you have space ships and FTL but you're still making meat by growing a entire animal, you're probably either stupid, barbarians, or rich. Or all of the above.

You can eat whatever kind of meat you want if all you have to do is drop some muscle cell samples into a vat filled with the local equivalent of 20$ worth of chemicals and nutrients. Growing a entire animal is inefficient; it grows slowly, it's filled with things that aren't tasty meat, and they do lots of things other than 'grow more meat as quickly as possible'.
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Even reaching FTL doesn't promise that they have the tech for that. Admittedly they could then obtain it from someone that does, but I wouldn't call it a core technology for space age civilizations.
 
Queshire said:
Even reaching FTL doesn't promise that they have the tech for that. Admittedly they could then obtain it from someone that does, but I wouldn't call it a core technology for space age civilizations.
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True, it's not exactly a prerequisite, but their technological development would be rather strangely lopsided if they didn't have that. Technically, we can grow vat meat just fine; we just can't get normal consistency muscle tissue because that's developed through exercise, and we haven't yet developed a way to bypass or simulate that in-vitro.

FTL is generally not the easiest of things to accomplish, so having that much development in the hard sciences but next to none in the biological would be strange. It'd be like having flying cars but no indoor plumbing; either your species has a serious one-track mind problem, or there's some sort of cultural stigma against toilets.

(And this is ignoring any overlap that might occur, like "hey, if we're going to spend a long while in space, it'd sure be nice to have some source of meat without carrying a mini-ranch on every ship...")
 
Buggy123 said:
True, it's not exactly a prerequisite, but their technological development would be rather strangely lopsided if they didn't have that. Technically, we can grow vat meat just fine; we just can't get normal consistency muscle tissue because that's developed through exercise, and we haven't yet developed a way to bypass or simulate that in-vitro.

FTL is generally not the easiest of things to accomplish, so having that much development in the hard sciences but next to none in the biological would be strange. It'd be like having flying cars but no indoor plumbing; either your species has a serious one-track mind problem, or there's some sort of cultural stigma against toilets.

(And this is ignoring any overlap that might occur, like "hey, if we're going to spend a long while in space, it'd sure be nice to have some source of meat without carrying a mini-ranch on every ship...")
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Yep. It's like in Civilization where hitting the prerequisites for a particular tech also open access to others.
 
Slayer Anderson said:
Politics are happening and it's complicated.

Being slightly less glib, if you remember the guys OL dropped off all the slaves he freed to, right outside of Vega? They're the Crown Imperium and a reasonable authority figure/group from what we've seen. However, they're outside Vega so if they intervened, all of the groups inside Vega would close ranks and fight the foreigners. So the Crown Imperium is having to support a proxy war by backing the less-awful Gordanian Clans who didn't like the Citadel (which Paul destroyed). A large part of why the Crown Imperium can't overtly act is because of that massive peace treaty Paul arranged directly after coming to Vega in the first place as well. The main guy Paul is talking to here seems to understand why Paul did what he did and, more importantly, didn't do what he didn't do (such as aide them in their own struggle against the Citadel remnants), but he's still kind of salty about not getting the support he would have if Paul had done things differently and is trying to use that to extort actual help from the guy who took down the Orange Beast of Vega.

Paul, on the other hand, isn't entirely thrilled with the guy's attitude and while these might be the less-awful Gordanian clans, they're still not super-good guys as a whole. Their race, as a whole, was more or less allied to the Citadel after all and really fucked up the Tamaranian homeworld/civilization. Paul also understands that leveraging them into a better position is probably the best move to put the least-awful faction ahead politically and militarily to work for long-term peace and good karma.
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Nearly. While the planet is called Karna, the karnans are the cat-looking ones and the gordanians are the lizard-looking ones. The Supreme Commander is karnan.
Chaoswind said:
This update is the perfect segway into REAL Grayven (from original pauls universe) to make his entrance and conquer Karna. I believe he has a bunch of Gordanian clans and fleets as his troops and that they control a planet/systems they renamed 'New Gordane', so he may intercede to save the Gordanian 'homeworld' (because as stated, everyone in Vega was seeded there by the psions) and stop the slave revolt. He may even add the Karnans to his warband, and he could probably recruit more people from Vega, and nominally add most of the sector to his holdings; would be funny if he marries Black Fire too.
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The SI's original universe is Universe Prime, where we live. I really hope that there isn't a Grayven around here anywhere.

Grayven 16's people were last seen in the Periphery on the other side of the galaxy. While they could return to the old homeworld, it wouldn't be a fast trip.

Karnans wouldn't accept integration with gordanians at this stage.
 
Aeess said:
Doesn't Universe Prime have Kryptonians(as comics and real aliens)? Why wouldn't it have New Gods?
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And almeraci (A child's parents sent their only son to Earth as their planet was going to be destroyed, where he landed in Australia, and became Ultraa, in New Earth continuity Ultraa is an Almeraci like Maxima, so presumably his Earth Prime doppelganger is also Almeraci), coluans, trommites, durlans, Bgztlians, talokians, and daxamites because there's a Legion of Superheroes from Earth Prime.
 
Mr Zoat, I edit the TV tropes page. I currently have Sinestro 50's ring named as such, or simply Sinestro's ring. Is that the right name, or would Sinestro AI, or some other name, be more accurate? What do you call him?
 
Ngamer11 said:
Mr Zoat, I edit the TV tropes page. I currently have Sinestro 50's ring named as such, or simply Sinestro's ring. Is that the right name, or would Sinestro AI, or some other name, be more accurate? What do you call him?
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I don't call him anything. The Renegade calls him 'Sinestro', and the ring identifies as that.
 
Khettien said:
There's a significant difference between carnivorous and anthropophagy, you know. Sadly, the literal definition of anthropophagy doesn't seem to consider nonhuman intelligence, but English is like that.

To quote Schlock Mercenary - "Food that talks isn't food."
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Tell that to Schlock >.<
 
Stsword said:
pathfinder (ugh first edition, don't get me started),
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Meh. I like PF1e better than PF2e.

Mr Zoat said:
"Troops! When you leave here, you will be the best trained riflemen in the world! And to ensure this, here is a javelin. Once you have mastered it, you will advance onto slingshots!"
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More like "Here is a rifle. Once you understand how to aim it, operate it, and perform maintenance on it, we'll see about getting you some ammunition." Which is actually something that gets done in real life sometimes. (Sydney got a bum deal having to assemble it from parts.) But the big difference is that a rifle left to its own devices won't crave the delicious skull-meat of the living.

Mr Zoat said:
but their… Crown Imperium-made grasers.
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I think you meant "they pull their" or "they draw their".
 
Coda said:
More like "Here is a rifle. Once you understand how to aim it, operate it, and perform maintenance on it, we'll see about getting you some ammunition." Which is actually something that gets done in real life sometimes. (Sydney got a bum deal having to assemble it from parts.) But the big difference is that a rifle left to its own devices won't crave the delicious skull-meat of the living.
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No army with any choice does basic training in an active war zone. A level 1 adventurer should have passed basic.
I think you meant "they pull their" or "they draw their".
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No, that was the SI noticing where they came from and realising that it was important.
 
Buggy123 said:
You can eat whatever kind of meat you want if all you have to do is drop some muscle cell samples into a vat filled with the local equivalent of 20$ worth of chemicals and nutrients. Growing a entire animal is inefficient; it grows slowly, it's filled with things that aren't tasty meat, and they do lots of things other than 'grow more meat as quickly as possible'.
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But what if it tastes like crap?
 
Is it me or is Batman aiming at completely the wrong target? They now know that Apokolips has operatives on Earth. They have contact with the New Gods, so they know what that means and who they are. And... Rather than debate the utility of killing the Apokoliptians who are wandering around in public, he's... Fighting a social media war by faking major crimes and having the Outsiders stop them? Even if they wins, how does that help anyone?
 
General question, did anyone do an omake or something from the debriefing of the Justice League OL defeated awhile back?
 
Mr Zoat said:
Is it me or is Batman aiming at completely the wrong target? They now know that Apokolips has operatives on Earth. They have contact with the New Gods, so they know what that means and who they are. And... Rather than debate the utility of killing the Apokoliptians who are wandering around in public, he's... Fighting a social media war by faking major crimes and having the Outsiders stop them? Even if they wins, how does that help anyone?
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Yeah a major problem for the League in Canon and in story is that they're to used to direct confrontation, or as some would put it "righteous face-punching", along with following rules mandated by the U.N. and even after they started their own covert-ops teams none of them are playing on the same level as the villains or by the same rules.

Plus just like you(Mr. Zoats) pointed out that with your X-com analogy the League hasn't put much effort in researching and upgrading their existing power base.

Then there's how the show focuses on interpersonal drama between the characters who want to stop the Light but don't want to cross certain lines because they're suppose to be heroes or let their own personal views on what's right or wrong.
 
Mr Zoat said:
No army with any choice does basic training in an active war zone. A level 1 adventurer should have passed basic.

No, that was the SI noticing where they came from and realising that it was important.
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Which is why later level adventurers can learn without training. Most classes don't get more than cantrips, and like mentioned above there's expansions for low level undead you can summon with lower level spells.
 
...I just noticed that there's at least a couple of people that Paul should probably Danner: The marvels, the atom, Kord...
More if it turns out to work fine on metahumans and magic users.
I'd think that most of them don't mind agumentations such as that.
 
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Jirachi said:
...I just noticed that there's at least a couple of people that Paul should probably Danner: The marvels, the atom, Kord...
More if it turns out to work fine on metahumans and magic users.
I'd think that most of them don't mind agumentations such as that.
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"Hey, Billy, what's with the fancy collar?"

"Uhh..."
 
Jirachi said:
...I just noticed that there's at least a couple of people that Paul should probably Danner: The marvels, the atom, Kord...
More if it turns out to work fine on metahumans and magic users.
I'd think that most of them don't mind agumentations such as that.
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It should be fine for magic-users since Teth-Adom was Dannered (though even then he probably doesn't revert to his human form much) with no evident negative effects.

I understand why giving a lot of people Flash-level super-speed would make conflict harder to write but the fact that there's only been one ring-based Garrick formula recipient up till now, compared to Danner, is a bit baffling, considering the advantages they would bring. I suppose in hindsight using the ring to perfectly administer alchemical formulas shouldn't have really been an option.
 
Ganurath said:
"Hey, Billy, what's with the fancy collar?"

"Uhh..."
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Maybe for some of them? But say, the lanterns have public identities, and Kord could plausibly get all kinds of access to Paul's stuff from his buisness relationship. Even the secret identity ones could probably figure something out.
 
Mr Zoat said:
No army with any choice does basic training in an active war zone. A level 1 adventurer should have passed basic.
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Except the metaphysics of the D&D world is very different from Earth Normal. For one, you literally can't learn new things above a certain threshold, even academic knowledge, without participating in life-or-death combat; it's written into the structure of the universe by the Gods or whatever. Which, when you think about it, makes sense in context: casting a magic spell in D&D erases the knowledge from your mind and you need to re-learn how to cast it. Every. Time.

Which, yes, is bizarre, but it's a core facet of the D&D world. Vancian magic is weird.
 
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