With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Ganurath]

So I was right, knowing he's trying to 'conquer' you allows you to resist?

Click to shrink...

That, or using your conquest powers to push someone toward self determination is somewhat paradoxical.

 

[Stsword]

Maud can crush rock into gravel.



Big McIntosh pulled a house after him.



Applejack, as Mare Do Well, pushed a runaway carriage into stopping "Mare-Do Well arrives on the scene, standing stalwartly before the cliff face with her hooves in the air, ready for the carriage. It pushes her all the way to the edge before stopping."

With that kind of strength, their hooves are weapons.

 

[Doc Sithicus]

So can we have a Grayven arc now?

 

[FreeGod]

With that kind of strength, their hooves are weapons.

Click to shrink...

Not really against each other since everyone seems to be tougher than they are strong.

 

[Senevri]

Why would Scott be on a warship? Grayven couldn't possible reach through alternate universes could he?

Click to shrink...

We tend to assume that crossing to alternate universe is difficult... But is it, though? There are some theories (hypotheses) that people may cross universes accidentally to near parallels, and any discrepancies are shrugged off as memory glitches or having been mistaken about something.

Does not really hold for DC, for the most part, though, since there are a limited set of distinctly separate universes there.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Are we gonna get a gravyenbowl?

 

[Buggy123]

We tend to assume that crossing to alternate universe is difficult... But is it, though? There are some theories (hypotheses) that people may cross universes accidentally to near parallels, and any discrepancies are shrugged off as memory glitches or having been mistaken about something.

Does not really hold for DC, for the most part, though, since there are a limited set of distinctly separate universes there.

Click to shrink...

That's really... not a hypotheses, though. At least, it's not a hypothesis that any physicist would take seriously, especially those who work with anything you could call 'parallel universes'.

Put simply, there is a lot of evidence for just how faulty and error prone human memory is. And the answer is, it is both of those things to the extreme. There is essentially no evidence that any sort of inter-universal travel occurs regularly, or that it would almost always result in things like brand names being slightly different than remembered.



To put it less simply: The idea of parallel universes being responsible for that fails on a lot of counts:

1: If we were to assume that parallel universes with small, random changes exist, and that for some reason, humans and humans alone tend to be transported between them, the effects wouldn't be limited to mis-remembering brands. The universe, as far as we can tell, does not treat any particular bunch of atoms specially, be it the atoms making up every reference to the Berenstein bears on the planet, or all of the atoms of random bits of rock. If it's truly random, the likelyhood of randomly switching to a universe that changes that and only that is astronomically small compared to say, a couple of rocks changing position. So small that noticeable changes would be very frequent, because details would be shifting around you pretty frequently to the point that it'd be blatantly obvious; if the universe effectively selects something at random to change, how many other things would change before it just so happens to pick the exact right 10-to-the-30 atoms, distributed across the entire planet, to switch the "e" in all Berenstein to a "a" everywhere on the entire planet at once. Quite a lot, I'd say.

2: Alternatively, lets assume parallel universes exist, and humans and humans alone tend to be transported between them. And lets assume that it's not just random changes between universes, but rather tiny differences in the past that the butterfly effect has magnified. The problem here is, the butterfly effect is strong. In the universe where the Stan and Jan Berenstain decided to spell their books slightly differently, the butterfly effect is probably so strong that the entire state of the planet is different; nevermind geopolitical changes or junk like Back to the Future would warn you about; in all likelyhood the Earth is in a slightly different position in it's orbit. And the universe does not prefer to use the exotic doubly-rotating reference frame of this specific rock, so you've just appeared in the air, underground, or in a wall, or suffocating to death in space, possibly while travelling several kilometers per second in a different direction than the exact direction that everything else on the planet is travelling in. Good luck noticing the Berenstein Bears from the depths of space.

3: If we assume that parallel universes exist, and humans and humans alone tend to be transported between them at random, why do you appear in places with minor changes? Why are any butterfly-event-triggering events limited to the recent past? If it's tied to humans, why not a world where the Roman Empire still exists and controls all of Europe. If it isn't tied to humans, why not that one universe where a tiny difference in the primordial universe means that *the entire solar system never formed*. No matter how it works, it would stand to reason that the number of shifts where a traveler notices a "b">"a" change would be massively outweighed by impromptu visitors from the Second Egyptian Federation, nevermind people who are just drinking their morning coffee and then suddenly end up in a void, light years from any stars or planets. If this happens so often that it's more than a astronomical fluke that someone has switched between the two highly improbable universes where 10^30 atoms change and nothing else, then the vacuum surrounding us should be *filled* with the corpses of unfortunate would-be travelers, and there should be a lot more people who were luckier and are sitting here, telling us about all sort of different Earths.

I could go on.


TL;DR

Put simply again, any sort of hypothesis like this only makes the tiniest bit of sense when approached from a human perspective, where concepts and the self are the building block of the universe, not atoms and fields. And by and large, every lick of evidence points to the universe caring about the latter, and a hypothesis like that is founded in the former. In short, its not only false, it's nonsensical and doesn't relate to reality in any meaningful way.

 

[jaelin910]

I always assumed the Wilsonian universe was geocentric. The sun is the largest stellar object, and everything else is contained on an outer shell, like the medieval model. Luna gets control of the outer shell and moon, while Celestia gets the largest object in the universe, besides maybe Wilson itself, the sun.

Click to shrink...

The most realistic way their whole system could work that I've ever come up with is their planet being surrounded by a spherical screen with the sun, stars and possibly the moon all being displays rather than real objects.

 

[Mquz]

While I don't believe in alternate universe travel, I have experienced serious Deja Vu before. Like, I dream about a room I walk into. I know it's layout. I know the people in there with me. I remember the dream several times over the following years, since it seemed so realistic. Then I walk into the same room, with the same people there and the situation going on is fairly similar to what I dreamt of. Sometimes, and often more accurately for what occurs in them, I have had accurate Deja Vu about games I play about a year or two later, soon after release, so I know I could not have experienced them beforehand, and I don't watch trailers. And while these might just be my mind playing tricks, I remember the dream, and I remember remembering the dream later on when the Deja Vu occurs. I have relatives who have had similar experiences.
From personal experience, I honestly believe that while a lot of people's theories are bullshit, fortune telling is bullshit, and the mind does tend to play tricks, there is something special / unexplained yet about what goes on in the human mind / soul, that would allow it to predict the possible future.

 

[topin89]

While I don't believe in alternate universe travel, I have experienced serious Deja Vu before. Like, I dream about a room I walk into. I know it's layout. I know the people in there with me. I remember the dream several times over the following years, since it seemed so realistic. Then I walk into the same room, with the same people there and the situation going on is fairly similar to what I dreamt of. Sometimes, and often more accurately for what occurs in them, I have had accurate Deja Vu about games I play about a year or two later, soon after release, so I know I could not have experienced them beforehand, and I don't watch trailers. And while these might just be my mind playing tricks, I remember the dream, and I remember remembering the dream later on when the Deja Vu occurs. I have relatives who have had similar experiences.
From personal experience, I honestly believe that while a lot of people's theories are bullshit, fortune telling is bullshit, and the mind does tend to play tricks, there is something special / unexplained yet about what goes on in the human mind / soul, that would allow it to predict the possible future.

Click to shrink...

I can believe in that experience. After all, I had a firsthand experience with "psychic" healing. And it worked! I have a friend became temporary blind during karate meditation.

I just don't believe humans are special. An we don't have psychic rats.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Maud can crush rock into gravel.



Big McIntosh pulled a house after him.



Applejack, as Mare Do Well, pushed a runaway carriage into stopping "Mare-Do Well arrives on the scene, standing stalwartly before the cliff face with her hooves in the air, ready for the carriage. It pushes her all the way to the edge before stopping."

With that kind of strength, their hooves are weapons.

Click to shrink...

Maud was also the sole graduate in her year at a surprisingly large school with only one teacher. A school made of rock rather than brick.

There may be more going on there than is readily apparent.

Are we gonna get a gravyenbowl?

Click to shrink...

It's more a mullet than a bowl...

 

[Coda]

3: If we assume that parallel universes exist, and humans and humans alone tend to be transported between them at random, why do you appear in places with minor changes? Why are any butterfly-event-triggering events limited to the recent past? If it's tied to humans, why not a world where the Roman Empire still exists and controls all of Europe. If it isn't tied to humans, why not that one universe where a tiny difference in the primordial universe means that *the entire solar system never formed*. No matter how it works, it would stand to reason that the number of shifts where a traveler notices a "b">"a" change would be massively outweighed by impromptu visitors from the Second Egyptian Federation, nevermind people who are just drinking their morning coffee and then suddenly end up in a void, light years from any stars or planets. If this happens so often that it's more than a astronomical fluke that someone has switched between the two highly improbable universes where 10^30 atoms change and nothing else, then the vacuum surrounding us should be *filled* with the corpses of unfortunate would-be travelers, and there should be a lot more people who were luckier and are sitting here, telling us about all sort of different Earths.

Click to shrink...

So... Let me be the first to say that I don't subscribe to the theory.

However: There's a flaw in your reasoning.

Supposing the proposed effect exists, you would never speak to someone who was dropped into the void of space. They would, of course, be dead. This would bias your observations. It's not that a disproportionately high number of individuals are transported to sane places in sane parallels; it's that anyone who wasn't wouldn't be available to comment. (Of course, there's also reason to believe such a thing wouldn't happen in the first place, as events on Earth don't make noteworthy alterations to orbital mechanics -- you would have to jump across time and space in order to have this happen instead of jumping to another parallel at the same point in time and space. This would actually imply a greater displacement because you'd be moving in more than one dimension.)

Also, we wouldn't have evidence of small-scale changes in the distant past. If you can't remember the event first-hand, then you can't distinguish between switching to a different parallel versus mistakes in your education. So if someone were to be teleported here from a world where George Washington chopped down a walnut tree, how would you even know? And what about changes that you wouldn't even be aware of -- if you teleported from a world where the ancestral language in Kenya pronounced a vowel differently, odds are you wouldn't even be able to tell you had gone anywhere. This further biases observations toward minor, recent deviations.

But what of the Second Egyptian Federation? That's a valid counterargument -- a large-scale historical event with lasting repercussions instead of a mostly-trivial difference. Well... I mean, perhaps the Apollo 11 mission was scrubbed in some parallels and the results were faked in order to hide this fact from international politics. Who's to say that moon landing deniers aren't just experiencing the Mandela Effect with regards to that event?

 

[Buggy123]

So... Let me be the first to say that I don't subscribe to the theory.

However: There's a flaw in your reasoning.

Supposing the proposed effect exists, you would never speak to someone who was dropped into the void of space. They would, of course, be dead. This would bias your observations. It's not that a disproportionately high number of individuals are transported to sane places in sane parallels; it's that anyone who wasn't wouldn't be available to comment. (Of course, there's also reason to believe such a thing wouldn't happen in the first place, as events on Earth don't make noteworthy alterations to orbital mechanics -- you would have to jump across time and space in order to have this happen instead of jumping to another parallel at the same point in time and space. This would actually imply a greater displacement because you'd be moving in more than one dimension.)

Click to shrink...

Yes, but if the quantity of people who land successfully is large enough for there to be even one person per-universe who is living on earth and remembers a different earth, nevermind a unlikely earth where there's a tiny change and nothing else, then there must be a lot of failed switches in near earth orbit, because the ratio is most likely skewed very heavily against successful switches. If nothing else, we'd notice the many, many bodies in solar orbit, as well as bodies that get captured in orbit or fall to earth as unusual meteorites.

And I'd argue that it's skewed because of...

Also, we wouldn't have evidence of small-scale changes in the distant past. If you can't remember the event first-hand, then you can't distinguish between switching to a different parallel versus mistakes in your education. So if someone were to be teleported here from a world where George Washington chopped down a walnut tree, how would you even know? And what about changes that you wouldn't even be aware of -- if you teleported from a world where the ancestral language in Kenya pronounced a vowel differently, odds are you wouldn't even be able to tell you had gone anywhere. This further biases observations toward minor, recent deviations.

But what of the Second Egyptian Federation? That's a valid counterargument -- a large-scale historical event with lasting repercussions instead of a mostly-trivial difference. Well... I mean, perhaps the Apollo 11 mission was scrubbed in some parallels and the results were faked in order to hide this fact from international politics. Who's to say that moon landing deniers aren't just experiencing the Mandela Effect with regards to that event?

Click to shrink...

The butterfly effect. You're underestimating the butterfly effect. Chopping down a walnut tree instead of a cherry tree would probably completely alter history within a hundred years. The earth is essentially one gigantic chaotic system, after all.

As an example, weather is a commonly cited system that is very clearly chaotic. Using modern sensors and computing technology, we can predict it out to about a week with any sort of accuracy. This is with, in absolute terms, fairly inaccurate data (it's not like we know where individual molecules in the air are). If we say that the lower bound for this accuracy is about, oh, however much air movement a walnut tree falling over would create, then we know that said tree wouldn't cause a noticeable disturbance until after a week-ish at minimum. But this is a exponential process, doubling the time greatly increases the possible states; after a single year, weather across the globe would be completely different. And how much change do you think a tornado, or a hurricane, or even just a rainstorm can make? Japan avoided two invasions because of conveniently timed typhoons.

And that's just weather. In reality, the entire universe is a chaotic system. Atomic interactions are chaotic, orbits are chaotic (for 3+ body systems, which the solar system is), and people, being made of chaotic systems, are a chaotic system. And governments, societies, and history, being made of chaotic systems, are chaotic systems. Over the course of a hundred years or more, a tiny change like that would completely change the state of the world.

You wonder why a person might end up in space? Orbits are chaotic systems. Sure, the Earth is in a state where there are certain states that are unlikely (such as being flung into deep space), but a tiny change in its orbital period would still result in a radically different position a hundred orbits later, even more so when you consider that it's not a perfectly circular orbit. And a tiny change in its rotational velocity would cause a big change in its position thousands of rotations later.

I mean, consider a event like the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, and ignore any other possible changes. It changed the rotation of the earth, shortening days by about 2.7 millionths of a second. 100 years worth of days would make that about 0.1 seconds. At the equator, the earth rotates at about 470 meters per second. If you traveled from this earth, to a earth where a earthquake like that happened but nothing else changed because of it, you'd still appear a hundred and fifty feet to the west. If you lived in a skyscraper, you just fell to death.



That's why I see a Berenstein>Berenstain universe as astonishingly unlikely. If the change was just that the authors decided to use a different spelling, that'd still have a huge effect after 50+ years, easily enough to be blatantly obvious. So you're not just looking for a world where that happened, but rather a world where a change happened that caused the entire earth to end up in a state that was completely identical except for that. It'd be like dropping a bucket of dice on the floor all at once, and then saying "okay, so do that exactly the same way, but you see that three there? Make that a five."

Changing a letter is likely, but changing only the letter is a one in a we-gave-up-on-counting-the-zeros chance.

 

[Coda]

Yes, but if the quantity of people who land successfully is large enough for there to be even one person per-universe who is living on earth and remembers a different earth, nevermind a unlikely earth where there's a tiny change and nothing else, then there must be a lot of failed switches in near earth orbit, because the ratio is most likely skewed very heavily against successful switches. If nothing else, we'd notice the many, many bodies in solar orbit, as well as bodies that get captured in orbit or fall to earth as unusual meteorites.

Click to shrink...

As I mentioned, finding yourself in the void of space implies time travel. Lateral movement to a different parallel isn't subject to the same problems as teleportation or time travel. If we assume that all of the parallels branched from a common shared history, then the Earth is going to be in the same place across all of them within a TINY margin of error. The only thing that can significantly change where the Earth is at any given point of time would be an asteroid.

And, y'know, we're not going to see any visitors from a world where humanity went extinct, and we'd never know it if someone WENT to a world where humanity went extinct.

Changing a letter is likely, but changing only the letter is a one in a we-gave-up-on-counting-the-zeros chance.

Click to shrink...

This assumes that the probabilities are randomly, evenly distributed. But if the distance between parallels is proportional to the divergence in their contents, then it would be far more likely that someone would end up in a parallel with minimal changes than they would be to end up in one with significant differences.

In fact, there's serious scientific backing behind this possibility. We're out of the realm of the Mandela effect here: One proposed mechanism behind some of the stranger behaviors observed in quantum mechanics is that the wavefunctions of different Everett branches can interfere with each other, allowing events that didn't happen to nevertheless influence the state of the world. This interference would simply be random statistical noise if the two wavefunctions were significantly desynchronized, but the more similar they are the more significance the effect has on the observable distribution.

Of course, it's purely in the realm of pop-science philosophy to suggest that this effect can scale to something as macroscopic as a human mind state. But still...

 

[PDV]

I wonder; will this arc will finally clue the Renegade in to the fact that his god-nature isn't Conquest?

 

[Travisplo]

Of course, it's purely in the realm of pop-science philosophy to suggest that this effect can scale to something as macroscopic as a human mind state. But still...

Click to shrink...

I mean, we don't know just how big the human consciousness actually is. We don't know exactly where it comes from either, in its entirety. The human consciousness could be something tiny, just a few carefully tuned impulses, just information and wave fluctuations. Or it could be bound up in a significant portion of the human brain. We don't know. So, we don't know what can and can't happen, realistically.

 

[rkyeun]

The butterfly effect. You're underestimating the butterfly effect. Chopping down a walnut tree instead of a cherry tree would probably completely alter history within a hundred years. The earth is essentially one gigantic chaotic system, after all.

...

That's why I see a Berenstein>Berenstain universe as astonishingly unlikely. If the change was just that the authors decided to use a different spelling, that'd still have a huge effect after 50+ years, easily enough to be blatantly obvious. So you're not just looking for a world where that happened, but rather a world where a change happened that caused the entire earth to end up in a state that was completely identical except for that. It'd be like dropping a bucket of dice on the floor all at once, and then saying "okay, so do that exactly the same way, but you see that three there? Make that a five."

Click to shrink...

This isn't guaranteed. There may for example be a small coupling effect.
When a photon splits to go through one of two slits, it isn't a total split for the simple reason that the uncertainty principle still gives them some small probability of overlap. The effect is vastly weakened, of course, as most of the probability has been widely separated, but it's a bell curve with a fourier transform, and that means they're always still a little coupled at the tails. When they hit the screen and we manipulate the detector to make the interference pattern appear or disappear, it doesn't disappear ALL the way. There's still some left from the uncertainty principle, where the tails are still together. In one world, this makes no difference to the butterfly effect. But in many worlds, this is the manifestation of those worlds being still partly in agreement. This could make parallel worlds self-correct towards each other by having those outcomes be favored, since the worlds where they disagree would interfere more destructively than the ones where they agree. The wings of the two butterflies in parallel worlds have been glued to each other and flap together.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Alrighty then. I organized all the ones I could find by chapter.

This is from a Paragon chapter on the 28th of August.

This is from a Paragon chapter on the 12th of September.

These are both from the same Renegade chapter on the 9th of November.

This is from a Renegade chapter on the 30th of December. Also, if you're making it so that August in Iron only became Iron relatively recently, it seems like Tiananmen Square would have to have happened relatively recently too if August in Iron was able to stop Socialist Red Guardsmen, as Grayven is saying in the above quote. Though making it more recent also improves Grayven's rant about the Justice League not taking action against it.

These are all from the same Renegade chapter on the 30th of December.

These are both from the same Renegade chapter on the 31st of December.

These are all from the same Renegade chapter on the 31st of December.

Renegade chapter, 31st of December, you know the drill.


These are all from a Renegade chapter on the 25th of May. The Renegade mentions that Fang gets promoted this chapter, so he either needs to stay a Colonel, with the mentions of a promotion getting removed, or he needs to be called a General here.


Here are some normal corrections. Mostly just broken links

This video is blocked in my country, which is the U.S., for the record.

The video is unavailable.

The "g" in good links to a different video that is blocked in my country.

The account that uploaded this video has been terminated.

Broken link.

I'm having trouble connecting to the website.

Broken link.

First link works, the second is a video that is unavailable.

Click to shrink...

Various things updated. Not sure how many links are the same, mind.

This looks like a mistake. In one chapter, Truggs says he got Paul's number from Dana Dearden. In the very next chapter, Paul tells Guy that Truggs got it by hacking phone records. Unless Paul didn't want to get Dana in trouble?

Click to shrink...

Let's go with 'yes'.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

**I'm not complaining about what you did, Paul. But you left, and Vega had to forge ahead without you. And this is what happened. That peace you thought you were trying to broker? I did that four months ago.**

Click to shrink...

Getting vibes of a certain Watchman screencap/comic panel here...

I assume OL is gonna make rules in the corps. Especially rules that go "CONSULT HIGHEST COMMAND IF GENOCIDE BEING PLANNED OR UNDERWAY"

Click to shrink...

I can imagine explaining it to rookies in the future. Like, "You wouldn't think you'd need a specific rule about double checking with your superiors before genociding an entire sentient species or rendering a life bearing planet dead and barren... but there you go."

Is he talking to Kori'ander, or Korm'andr?

Click to shrink...

A mnemonic to remember which one is which is Korm'andr sounds like Commander, which is a name a Villian (Like Cobra Commander) would have. So Korm'andr is the one that became a Villain in canon, and Kori'ander is the other one.

"I can search large groups for particular desires. You should be able to do something similar."
Searching large groups for what, determination? Resolve?

Click to shrink...

Also intractability. The ones that are unwilling to agree to the terms of the cease fire.

"It doesn't matter. We have an enemy whose abilities we don't understand. Every vulnerability he exploited was one any of the League's other enemies could have used. We were lucky that he didn't want to kill you, and we can't afford to rely on luck."

Click to shrink...

That is a rather fucked up mindset. That someone is an enemy just because they disagree with you when lives are on the line and your solution would have a higher body count. If he considered you an enemy, you would be dead now.

Deeply disappointed that they aren't reflecting on the problems they caused though. No "we kinda screwed up there" at all.

Click to shrink...

True that.

There just mad Batman whent aginst the mc truth is Batman is being perfictly resanbol a civilian has a wepion that can take out planets confiscating it makes perfect sense but since Batman is a member of the authority he must be evil after all he went against the main character I mean seriously Justice League was created to stop threats to Earth so it's perfectly in their rights to investigate a man who has a weapon capable a Conquering whole galaxies especially when he seems to know things about them that no one else should. In truth since Paul is not a native that earth they are being lenient they didn't even interrogate him about his intentions and by law how they AR probably required to hand them over to the government.

Click to shrink...

Um, wow.

Can I petition to have this guy thread banned until he completes an english class with a minimum grade of C+? Because that is some seriously bad everything right there. Spelling, grammar, disregard of plot details that might contradict the rant he is making. Basically a trifecta of "eww, I feel nauseous after having read that."

Makes me wonder if green rings are made of 'maltusamite' or green light in that universe.

Click to shrink...

Little known fact, Maltusamite is actually Ion's mucus.

The problem is he's fucking with someone he probably shouldn't, messing with an object he knows nothing about, and is now about to draw the Guardians into it...and who knows what they might do?

Click to shrink...

Well, it's not like they don't have a wheel of fortune of bad ideas to choose from. They have been dubious distinction of receiving credit for multiple entries in the list of threats to the DC universe.

I bet the guardians the Guardians destroy it rather then giving it back, any takers.

Click to shrink...

What about sticking it in a mechanical servitor shackelet to their will that goes horribly wrong/horribly right? Sure, they already did it with the Manhunters and Alpha Lanterns, but they haven't tried powering them with the light of avarice yet.

Finding that took me half an hour.

Click to shrink...

Something you really should do going forward, in addition to having a copy of your story saved to hard drive, have an image folder saved also, and every time you add a link to an update, add a subfolder labeled with that updates episode's name and part number, containing all the pictures linked in that update. That way when link rot happens, you actually have easy access to the broken link's relevant picture to reupload to whatever the hosting site of the moment is.

American healthcare has been sub-par for far longer than 20 years.

This site does not have a no politics rule. This site has a no modern politics rule, though in increasingly looks like a 'no modern American politics' rule.

Click to shrink...

Not strictly correct. It is not no modern politics, but no current politics. There is a difference.

Better idea: file a suit at the Gotham City courthouse; PETER WYNNE vs. JOHN DOE (ALIAS "THE BATMAN"). I'm pretty sure there's legal precedent for keeping the legal identity of a defendant under seal, even in a civil case. Especially in superhero land. 'Peter' would have to tell the judge and publicly admit to knowing his name and residence, but he already has enough supervillains on staff to protect him.

Click to shrink...

Best get legal advice from Two-Face first and get info on which judges to go to from the Penguin.

Click to shrink...

Um, why would he bring suit in Gotham? Peter Wynne is a British National. The location of Batman's burglary was specified, but I doubt it would be in Gotham, and would probably be somewhere in England, where his corporate headquarters is. Lawsuits and Prosecutions usually take place in the jurisdiction under dispute occurred. Bruce Wayne might be served in Gotham, but the only court case taking place there would be extradition proceedings if it came to that.

Conqueror's Moon?
Any ideas what that is?

Click to shrink...

Warworld?

Actually, are you going to Awaken Persuader?"
You've spent time with her when she's in Elise-mode, haven't you?

Click to shrink...

Just who is this Persuader/Elise again?

 

[Queshire]

Just who is this Persuader/Elise again?

Click to shrink...

From context I think it's the Death Note girl? You know, the one that decided to Harley Quinn Grayven instead of Kira.

 

[RichardWhereat]

A mnemonic to remember which one is which is Korm'andr sounds like Commander, which is a name a Villian (Like Cobra Commander) would have. So Korm'andr is the one that became a Villain in canon, and Kori'ander is the other one.

Click to shrink...

Commander Vimes would like a word with you.

Also, at the time he had used the wrong name.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

From context I think it's the Death Note girl? You know, the one that decided to Harley Quinn Grayven instead of Kira.

Click to shrink...

No, because this is in the context of awakening someone, and Death Note Girl™ has already been awakened. So it cannot be her.

Also, at the time he had used the wrong name.

Click to shrink...

I know the wrong name was used in the story. The mnemonic reminder was intended for Zoat.

 

[Sceptic]

Basically a trifecta of "eww, I feel nauseous after having read that."

Click to shrink...

There's your mistake. I found my enjoyment of the thread went up when I started skipping posts with blatant grammar and spelling mistakes in the first sentence. Hell, I don't even bother reading Chojin Patriarch's posts because of the way he doesn't bother putting quotes in quote boxes, and at least he's usually otherwise perfectly readable.

From context I think it's the Death Note girl? You know, the one that decided to Harley Quinn Grayven instead of Kira.

Click to shrink...

She was already Awakened after being dosed with Garrick, I believe.

 

[Queshire]

That's fair. I have no idea then.

 

[Stsword]

Just who is this Persuader/Elise again?

Click to shrink...

21st century ancestor of the LoSH villain Persuader.

Carries an atomic axe.

Not the guitar kind.

Although knowing DC comics, a character using a nuclear powered guitar would not surprise me.

 

[Buggy123]

Warworld?

Click to shrink...

Nuh uh, I called it first. If anyone is getting meaningless internet points for guessing correctly, it'll be me, buddy.

As I mentioned, finding yourself in the void of space implies time travel. Lateral movement to a different parallel isn't subject to the same problems as teleportation or time travel. If we assume that all of the parallels branched from a common shared history, then the Earth is going to be in the same place across all of them within a TINY margin of error. The only thing that can significantly change where the Earth is at any given point of time would be an asteroid.

Click to shrink...

The question is, lateral movement compared to what? The reference frame of any object on the surface of the earth is unusual, because it's rotating around the center of the earth and orbiting around the sun at the same time, producing a complex pattern of movement and acceleration that isn't really tied to any large mass or such, and is slightly different for *every* object on the planet. Really I'm not sure how you could relate reference frames between universes at all, so terms like "time travel" or "lateral travel" might not even make sense in this context, but of all the reference frames that it could pick that'd be a strange one to pick at random.

And I still think that chaotic effects would have a appreciable effect on orbital positions after a mere century or so, even if the Earth does have a huge amount of inertia. There are more effects at play here; tectonic events could potentially alter orbital velocity by redistributing mass inside or on the surface of the earth, or altering the geomagnetic field and so changing how solar wind is deflected. And major changes in cloud patterns, surface features, or even local atmospheric composition would alter albedo, which can significantly affect the orbits of smaller bodies via radiation pressure and the Yarkovsky Effect. With small or medium-sized asteroids, this effect is actually so strong that in some cases, accurately predicting their orbit more than a couple orbits into the future requires a map of the surface and it's albedo. Perhaps rather less significant for a body such as the earth, which has much more mass per surface area, but it still exists and this stuff compounds exponentially after all.

But...

This isn't guaranteed. There may for example be a small coupling effect.
When a photon splits to go through one of two slits, it isn't a total split for the simple reason that the uncertainty principle still gives them some small probability of overlap. The effect is vastly weakened, of course, as most of the probability has been widely separated, but it's a bell curve with a fourier transform, and that means they're always still a little coupled at the tails. When they hit the screen and we manipulate the detector to make the interference pattern appear or disappear, it doesn't disappear ALL the way. There's still some left from the uncertainty principle, where the tails are still together. In one world, this makes no difference to the butterfly effect. But in many worlds, this is the manifestation of those worlds being still partly in agreement. This could make parallel worlds self-correct towards each other by having those outcomes be favored, since the worlds where they disagree would interfere more destructively than the ones where they agree. The wings of the two butterflies in parallel worlds have been glued to each other and flap together.

Click to shrink...

This assumes that the probabilities are randomly, evenly distributed. But if the distance between parallels is proportional to the divergence in their contents, then it would be far more likely that someone would end up in a parallel with minimal changes than they would be to end up in one with significant differences.

In fact, there's serious scientific backing behind this possibility. We're out of the realm of the Mandela effect here: One proposed mechanism behind some of the stranger behaviors observed in quantum mechanics is that the wavefunctions of different Everett branches can interfere with each other, allowing events that didn't happen to nevertheless influence the state of the world. This interference would simply be random statistical noise if the two wavefunctions were significantly desynchronized, but the more similar they are the more significance the effect has on the observable distribution.

Of course, it's purely in the realm of pop-science philosophy to suggest that this effect can scale to something as macroscopic as a human mind state. But still...

Click to shrink...

You both raise a very good point here, I hadn't thought of this. If it's based on the actual differences between the universes, not the magnitude or time since the event that caused divergence, then it'd sidestep the whole issue of chaoticness; no matter how unlikely a particular universe would be, it would still exist in a infinite multiverse.

But I still don't think that it would be plausible.

If the cause for the divergence is still a change in the past that propagated chaotically (and just so happened to end up with almost everything the same) you'd still be likely to find other changes of similar magnitude at a similar frequency, or more probable changes at much higher frequencies. And a change from "a" to "e" is one of many, many possible changes of that sort of magnitude, so if that happened even once, then in all likelihood switches happen very frequently. Frequently enough that I'd suspect that it'd be rather noticeable, because small objects would be slightly changing positions around you thousands of times per second like something out of the quantum realm.

 

[Lord Ernest]

Can't recall what episode it was, maybe in one of the Grayven segments before the Mandated stuff? But IIRC the 'original' Persuader, the idiot, apparently attacked Kal-El and the 'Twins' (Kon and Mitchell) when they were doing some bonding time and he got his ass kicked so hard he probably thought it was felt some 10 generations before him, so he went to recruit those ancestors, including Elise/Persuader-girl, and equipped them with Axes and stuff. She went to Grayven for "help" and is still in his crew after he determined that she had mentality of assassin or mercenary, I think?

Not sure why he's doing that charity case, really, but what really interested me is that it motivated him to find Cassandra Cain and now she has been adopted by Mister Miracle and Big Barda. So in the future of the Team there's a New Goddess of Martial Arts coming up, one trained in escapism by Miracle and fighting by Barda; that's some next level shit. I feel sorry for her in the Paragon timeline, she's probably still with the scumbag of David Cain and with the League of Shadows done who knows if she gets saved and/or adopted by the Bat-family (she would make a great addition to that one in the Paragon timeline, I can already see the shenanigans between Dick, Cassie and future little brother Damian, although who knows what would happen with Jason and Tim).

 

[Cuchulin]

Um, why would he bring suit in Gotham? Peter Wynne is a British National. The location of Batman's burglary was specified, but I doubt it would be in Gotham, and would probably be somewhere in England, where his corporate headquarters is. Lawsuits and Prosecutions usually take place in the jurisdiction under dispute occurred. Bruce Wayne might be served in Gotham, but the only court case taking place there would be extradition proceedings if it came to that.

Click to shrink...

Because he is filing a law suite against Batman who spends most of his time in Gotham and also narratively speaking most anything to due with/focusing on Batman happens in or near Gotham. Also as Harvey Dent two face likely had to deal with people trying to use the law to stop Batman or just try to hinder him as well as spending time as Two-Face looking for a way to use the law to strike back at Batman some how. As for Oswald his connections will have connection of their own and will know of people with power who really dislike Batman for how he does things rather than what he does (crime fighting).

 

[Tzeentch]

Honestly, in the distant future, I kinda want to see a crossover event between the Earth-16 of With This Ring and the more canonical one.

Aside from Paul giving a silent, deadpan, criticizing, stare to the Justice League of the WTR universe when they see Canon-Nabu has STILL been in possession of Zatara's body for almost a decade, (PAUL: "I'm trying VERY hard not to be insufferably smug here, honestly."), if WTR Thomas and Tuppence were to find out that THEIR counterparts are engaged in metahuman trafficking ventures...

Well all I can say is let the fists fly!

 

[Mr Zoat]

What about sticking it in a mechanical servitor shackelet to their will that goes horribly wrong/horribly right? Sure, they already did it with the Manhunters and Alpha Lanterns, but they haven't tried powering them with the light of avarice yet.

Click to shrink...

Superman Animated and Justice League Animated happened before the Guardians got villain balled. As such, it's not part of what they do.

Something you really should do going forward, in addition to having a copy of your story saved to hard drive, have an image folder saved also, and every time you add a link to an update, add a subfolder labeled with that updates episode's name and part number, containing all the pictures linked in that update. That way when link rot happens, you actually have easy access to the broken link's relevant picture to reupload to whatever the hosting site of the moment is.

Click to shrink...

Yes, I'm doing that now.

Just who is this Persuader/Elise again?

Click to shrink...

Her.

Honestly, in the distant future, I kinda want to see a crossover event between the Earth-16 of With This Ring and the more canonical one.

Aside from Paul giving a silent, deadpan, criticizing, stare to the Justice League of the WTR universe when they see Canon-Nabu has STILL been in possession of Zatara's body for almost a decade, (PAUL: "I'm trying VERY hard not to be insufferably smug here, honestly.")

Click to shrink...

Spoiler

No, he just shanks him with their version of the Sword of the Fallen.