With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

I am intrigued in what resulted in the divergence. Because I am fairly sure that Martians undoing their programming would have been noticed by Paul.

Click to shrink...

When the SI visited Mars, he spoke to Prelate J'emm and shared the information with him. As a result, there were a few very tense Council meetings, followed by a shift in government policy away from apartheid practices. The conditions of White Martians then began to improve. Furthermore, the government hasn't released the information yet, so the thing which triggered the violence hasn't happened yet.
With the SI absent and M'gann Red, that didn't happen during Renegade M'gann's visit. She shared the information freely, triggering wide scale civil unrest.

Also, does Grayven not worry about Guardians dropping a hammer down onto Mars? There was a reason why burning martians were destroyed.

Click to shrink...

If they go Burning again, then yes. Though it won't so much be a 'worry' as a 'necessity'.

 

[Pinklestia]

It would be hilarious if Grayven ended conquering Mars by "accident".

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It would be hilarious if Grayven ended conquering Mars by "accident".

Click to shrink...

Do they have a flag?

 

[Valint]

Fuck those god damn racist aliens.

Click to shrink...

Eh, I'm hoping there's actually a reason for their racism.

If it just comes down to "Stupid aliens are stupid in a way that even we enlightened humans have moved past, to make us feel better about the fact that we're inferior physically by making us morally superior", I'd find that unsatisfying.

To me, there are better explanations for "shapeshifters deeply care about what color skin you were born with" than "they're morons". My personal favorite is that it's not that they were born with skin of a particular shade, it's that being [White] or [Green] or [Red] is about being born with a certain mindset, one that you in part inherited from your parents in the womb, and the skin color is just a manifestation of who you are.

Perhaps being White means that you're warrior caste: Your enjoyment of conflict and crushing your enemies was a necessity way back when Mars was wild and unfriendly, but a detriment now that it's a peaceful communitarian society. Your mindset and values are simply different from most people around you, and they shun you because, on a pretty basic level, you live in a society that isn't designed for people like you, and there's good and solid reasons why everyone else has moved on from the kind of society you'd be happy in and doesn't want to go back to that.

 

[2 Hot Crown Subdues the Sinful]

She

Click to shrink...

I Ship It!

There are no pony character in that thread.

Click to shrink...

That's why I said "omake". Someone's gonna write some.

 

[Mr Zoat]

You're probably just messing with people but......r

Click to shrink...

Not exactly. Kalibak's big secret is that he likes nature. Stick him in the Everfree and make sure that Darkseid didn't find out about it and he'd be about as happy as he could be.

 

[Vaermina]

I was fascinated to hear from M'gann that someone on Mars had found a way to remove the Maltusian lock. She wanted to know if I was responsible, but while I'm not sure how I would have responded if directly asked to remove it, in this case I'm totally innocent.

Click to shrink...

I see the real Light has made it's first move.

 

[Phrexia Unbound]

Not exactly. Kalibak's big secret is that he likes nature. Stick him in the Everfree and make sure that Darkseid didn't find out about it and he'd be about as happy as he could be.

Click to shrink...

Now I just want an Omake of him having tea with Fluttershy...also he was turned into a Yak by the portal because it followed the same principal of universal adaptation as a Boom Tube and also because I wanted to make a pun. (Geddit, Kaliyak...Oh never mind.)

 

[Mr Zoat]

Now I just want an Omake of him having tea with Fluttershy...also he was turned into a Yak by the portal because it followed the same principal of universal adaptation as a Boom Tube and also because I wanted to make a pun. (Geddit, Kaliyak...Oh never mind.)

Click to shrink...

Even at his most reformed, Kalibak wouldn't interact socially with a Lowlie like Fluttershy. Or drink tea.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I am curious as to what OL will do to upgrade himself/his weapons/his power after suffering that curbstomp murder. His railgun ammo has been rather...stagnant I'd say.

Which makes me wonder....okay, so I've watched some TotalBiscuit recently, and he was playing some Warhammer 40K games. To be honest, his excitement and passion for parts of the games is what is making me very curious about 40K to begin with.

But on that point, OL does seem to know what 40K is (I swear literally every English youtuber is a fan) so...why not fabricate some sort of Heavy Bolter? Which, as I understand it, basically fires armor piercing explosive rounds (and I love everything about that.)

Too much ring power? OL doesn't like to break things per the usual?

So far, we are seeing a lot of caution, but not (as of yet) much proactivity. Being proactive has been such a cornerstone of OL's character, him not being so, is at least partly what makes me think something is wrong with him/something's been done to him during the resurrection.

And now I've got a big ol' pile of Grayven. And a pony.

 

[Sceptic]

why not fabricate some sort of Heavy Bolter

Click to shrink...

Isn't that what the sidearm on Zatanna's Sororitas costume is?

Edit: wait, never mind, that's a standard bolter.

 

[Buggy123]

I am curious as to what OL will do to upgrade himself/his weapons/his power after suffering that curbstomp murder. His railgun ammo has been rather...stagnant I'd say.

Which makes me wonder....okay, so I've watched some TotalBiscuit recently, and he was playing some Warhammer 40K games. To be honest, his excitement and passion for parts of the games is what is making me very curious about 40K to begin with.

But on that point, OL does seem to know what 40K is (I swear literally every English youtuber is a fan) so...why not fabricate some sort of Heavy Bolter? Which, as I understand it, basically fires armor piercing explosive rounds (and I love everything about that.)

Too much ring power? OL doesn't like to break things per the usual?

So far, we are seeing a lot of caution, but not (as of yet) much proactivity. Being proactive has been such a cornerstone of OL's character, him not being so, is at least partly what makes me think something is wrong with him/something's been done to him during the resurrection.

And now I've got a big ol' pile of Grayven. And a pony.

Click to shrink...

The problem is, while you can demonstrably make something like a bolter, there's no telling if that's actually a efficient design in the DC universe. It might not even be all that efficient in 40K, given that humanity has been technologically stagnant for a long time there.

Zatanna has a bolter, but it's perfectly possible that if you decided to get rid of the thematic design and change how it works a bit, you could get a gun that's smaller and more powerful. Same with railguns, maybe; a good go-to ring weapon needs to meet a lot of criteria, some of which are a bit strange and poorly defined given how power rings work. So a heavy bolter might not be all that useful compared to a railgun or other exotic weapons.

 

[Vaermina]

I am curious as to what OL will do to upgrade himself/his weapons/his power after suffering that curbstomp murder. His railgun ammo has been rather...stagnant I'd say.

Which makes me wonder....okay, so I've watched some TotalBiscuit recently, and he was playing some Warhammer 40K games. To be honest, his excitement and passion for parts of the games is what is making me very curious about 40K to begin with.

But on that point, OL does seem to know what 40K is (I swear literally every English youtuber is a fan) so...why not fabricate some sort of Heavy Bolter? Which, as I understand it, basically fires armor piercing explosive rounds (and I love everything about that.)

Too much ring power? OL doesn't like to break things per the usual?

So far, we are seeing a lot of caution, but not (as of yet) much proactivity. Being proactive has been such a cornerstone of OL's character, him not being so, is at least partly what makes me think something is wrong with him/something's been done to him during the resurrection.

And now I've got a big ol' pile of Grayven. And a pony.

Click to shrink...

You're over-estimating Paul's abilities and drive by a couple orders of magnitude.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

The problem is, while you can demonstrably make something like a bolter, there's no telling if that's actually a efficient design in the DC universe. It might not even be all that efficient in 40K, given that humanity has been technologically stagnant for a long time there.

Click to shrink...

I don't know if Zoat is using it, in fact I think he isn't, but last I knew, Emotional light Powered Ring's constructs do what they're creator thinks what they should do. Hence why Hal can make hard like missles that actually explode.

Granted, OL seems to be very light on construct use. Mostly "Make gun" and "Make thing to hold in place while I shoot with gun."

Might be his more practical mindset, but he has shown a tragic lack of imagination.

Zatanna has a bolter, but it's perfectly possible that if you decided to get rid of the thematic design and change how it works a bit, you could get a gun that's smaller and more powerful. Same with railguns, maybe; a good go-to ring weapon needs to meet a lot of criteria, some of which are a bit strange and poorly defined given how power rings work. So a heavy bolter might not be all that useful compared to a railgun or other exotic weapons.

Click to shrink...

I was mostly using it as a reference for a much heavier, powerful round. As it stands I think OL has Normal slugs, Anti-magic rounds, and Angel feathers. Thus, in my mind at least, a round designed to penetrate the target and then blow the hell up (Which is what I have been led to believe a Heavy Bolter does) seems like an escalation of force.

You're over-estimating Paul's abilities and drive by a couple orders of magnitude.

Click to shrink...

He's the current Illustries (or however it's spelled) of the Orange Corps, primarily set for ring user recruitment and training. Agent Orange, the Ophidian's chosen champion. Unofficially Orange 1 (The very first of the true Orange Corps) and has shown himself to be more capable in his application of the ring then John Stewart, Hal Jordan, and Guy Gardner....none of which are exactly rookies when it comes to ring slinging. OL casually did shit they hadn't even thought of.

I know that OL is stated to not to like to break things, and would probably prefer just to stay in his room and play with his toys. But if he can't up his game, then he doesn't deserve any of those titles, roles, or duties.

He just got casually, and I do mean casually, murdered by an Angel while being completely and utterly helpless to do anything about it. If that doesn't give him drive, not only does he deserve to die again, but nothing ever will.

 

[Valiran]

Also, does Grayven not worry about Guardians dropping a hammer down onto Mars? There was a reason why burning martians were destroyed.

Click to shrink...

They were all xenocidal psychopaths, and their telepathy ensured that their offspring picked this up in the womb. Modern Martians don't have that issue.

Eh, I'm hoping there's actually a reason for their racism.

If it just comes down to "Stupid aliens are stupid in a way that even we enlightened humans have moved past, to make us feel better about the fact that we're inferior physically by making us morally superior", I'd find that unsatisfying.

To me, there are better explanations for "shapeshifters deeply care about what color skin you were born with" than "they're morons". My personal favorite is that it's not that they were born with skin of a particular shade, it's that being [White] or [Green] or [Red] is about being born with a certain mindset, one that you in part inherited from your parents in the womb, and the skin color is just a manifestation of who you are.

Perhaps being White means that you're warrior caste: Your enjoyment of conflict and crushing your enemies was a necessity way back when Mars was wild and unfriendly, but a detriment now that it's a peaceful communitarian society. Your mindset and values are simply different from most people around you, and they shun you because, on a pretty basic level, you live in a society that isn't designed for people like you, and there's good and solid reasons why everyone else has moved on from the kind of society you'd be happy in and doesn't want to go back to that.

Click to shrink...

That's certainly an interesting idea, but I don't think Martian racism is a way to make humans feel superior and enlightened. It's a societal flaw that just happens to be more prevalent on Mars than it is on Earth.

It might not even be all that efficient in 40K, given that humanity has been technologically stagnant for a long time there.

Click to shrink...

Boltguns have been around for a long time, and originated well before the Imperium's technological decline set in. I once heard Chapter Master Valrak - sorry, Arch Warhammer - describe them as mass-producible weapons developed for the purposes of killing anything humanity might encounter, and that's a job they perform quite admirably.

Mind you, there are probably still weapons in DC that would be more effective "kill anything" options that don't drain his ring, so the point is likely moot.

I was mostly using it as a reference for a much heavier, powerful round. As it stands I think OL has Normal slugs, Anti-magic rounds, and Angel feathers. Thus, in my mind at least, a round designed to penetrate the target and then blow the hell up (Which is what I have been led to believe a Heavy Bolter does) seems like an escalation of force.

Click to shrink...

That's a fair assessment. Maybe small antimatter charges?

 

[Maxx Crowley]

That's a fair assessment. Maybe small antimatter charges?

Click to shrink...

Hasn't OL already used something like that, only for it to be casually tanked?

Or am I still thinking singularity/gravity attacks?

Hell, I just remembered...he has a god damn Weaponer working for him. Upping his arsenal ought to be a chinch.

 

[Vaermina]

He's the current Illustries (or however it's spelled) of the Orange Corps, primarily set for ring user recruitment and training. Agent Orange, the Ophidian's chosen champion. Unofficially Orange 1 (The very first of the true Orange Corps) and has shown himself to be more capable in his application of the ring then John Stewart, Hal Jordan, and Guy Gardner....none of which are exactly rookies when it comes to ring slinging. OL casually did shit they hadn't even thought of.

I know that OL is stated to not to like to break things, and would probably prefer just to stay in his room and play with his toys. But if he can't up his game, then he doesn't deserve any of those titles, roles, or duties.

He just got casually, and I do mean casually, murdered by an Angel while being completely and utterly helpless to do anything about it. If that doesn't give him drive, not only does he deserve to die again, but nothing ever will.

Click to shrink...

That's the thing, he doesn't deserve any of those titles, roles, or duties.

He's pretty much been coasting on general DC metaknowledge the entire time with the occasional brief exertion to pick up something shiny that's waved in front of his face. (Metaknowledge about canon which Paul's really lucky Zoat rewrote in places to make Paul right about.)

 

[Maxx Crowley]

That's the thing, he doesn't deserve any of those titles, roles, or duties.

Click to shrink...

He's pretty much the universe's leading expert on Orange Light usage. I'd say that counts for something.

He's pretty much been coasting on general DC metaknowledge the entire time with the occasional brief exertion to pick up something shiny that's waved in front of his face. (Metaknowledge about canon which Paul's really lucky Zoat rewrote in places to make Paul right about.)

Click to shrink...

Well, knowledge IS power.

Personally, I think you're just needlessly down on OL for reasons that are unknown to me. Me, the person that considers OL to easily be the weakest protag of anything I'm reading right now.

He's being beaten by a Puppeteer Naruto for goodness sake.

 

[Buggy123]

That's the thing, he doesn't deserve any of those titles, roles, or duties.

He's pretty much been coasting on general DC metaknowledge the entire time with the occasional brief exertion to pick up something shiny that's waved in front of his face. (Metaknowledge about canon which Paul's really lucky Zoat rewrote in places to make Paul right about.)

Click to shrink...

Ah, yes.

I'm sure metaknowledge was the only reason he managed to merge with the embodiment of all Avarice in the universe, and then find harmony with his desires to come out of it not only unscathed, but more powerful than before.

Oh, and becoming the favorite of that embodiment in the process? Pure metaknowledge. He knew what kind of treats she liked right off the bat.

 

[Sceptic]

He's being beaten by a Puppeteer Naruto for goodness sake.

Click to shrink...

I was momentarily excited at the thought of a Known Space crossover before I realised what you actually meant by that...

 

[Vaermina]

He's pretty much the universe's leading expert on Orange Light usage. I'd say that counts for something.

Well, knowledge IS power.

Personally, I think you're just needlessly down on OL for reasons that are unknown to me. Me, the person that considers OL to easily be the weakest protag of anything I'm reading right now.

He's being beaten by a Puppeteer Naruto for goodness sake.

Click to shrink...

No, he thinks he's the leading expert, but the truth is that he knows almost nothing about the science behind the Orange Light itself.

Further, the correct saying for this particular case is "knowledge can be power", with emphasis on the "can". Because a lot of the knowledge Paul has, he just doesn't bother to use or follow up on past a cursory glance.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I was momentarily excited at the thought of a Known Space crossover before I realised what you actually meant by that...

Click to shrink...

I have no idea what a known space crossover is....so we're even?

No, he thinks he's the leading expert, but the truth is that he knows almost nothing about the science behind the Orange Light itself.

Click to shrink...

Well, it's between him and Larfleeze. One has been fairly productive with the Orange light, and one sat in a cave gorging himself in various ways for like....all the years.

Further the correct saying for this particular case is "knowledge can be power", with emphasis on the "can". Because a lot of the knowledge Paul has, he just doesn't bother to use or follow up on past a cursory glance.

Click to shrink...

Ah, I think I see. This is one of those, if OL doesn't do or prepare for absolutely every single thing you can think of, and then do all that shit at the EXACT same time, then he's a fool, things isn't it?

Yes, I'm beginning to remember the pattern.

 

[Sceptic]

No, he thinks he's the leading expert, but the truth is that he knows almost nothing about the science behind the Orange Light itself.

Click to shrink...

The bar is set lower than a gnomish pub, so he's not necessarily wrong (if you exclude the Controllers and possibly Dox, obviously).

Because a lot of the knowledge Paul has, he just doesn't bother to use or follow up on past a cursory glance.

Click to shrink...

Ah yes, all that knowledge. One of his problems is that he doesn't necessarily know what's accurate, and some of what he does know is imprecise.

We shouldn't be expecting Spacebattles competence from him. Of course, we should also bitch about what an idiot he is if he hasn't started fixing at least some of the problems revealed by the theurgic beatdown he got, but I suspect that'll be coming up in the next episode (or this ones supplementals).

I have no idea what a known space crossover is....so we're even?

Click to shrink...

Known Space is a sci fi setting by Larry Niven, and one of the races is a bunch of proactive cowards called Pierson's Puppeteers.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Ah yes, all that knowledge. One of his problems is that he doesn't necessarily know what's accurate, and some of what he does know is imprecise.

Click to shrink...

And also because he is supposed to be, you know, a human being. Not a literary Terminator who spends every moment of every day plowing his way through a cosmic checklist.

Occasionally he bakes.

Known Space is a sci fi setting by Larry Niven, and one of the races is a bunch of proactive cowards called Pierson's Puppeteers.

Click to shrink...

Never heard of it. That being said, I'm also extraordinarily picky about what I read or look for. Most, and by most I literally do mean 99%, published works are of topics I'm utterly tired of, and do not contain what I'm actually looking for.

 

[Vaermina]

The bar is set lower than a gnomish pub, so he's not necessarily wrong (if you exclude the Controllers and possibly Dox, obviously).

Click to shrink...

You're confusing ring skill with Orange Light knowledge.

Paul has never really bothered to learn anything outside of the "comic knowledge" about the Orange Light he uses.

Ah yes, all that knowledge. One of his problems is that he doesn't necessarily know what's accurate, and some of what he does know is imprecise.

Click to shrink...

Which is why sensible people would have sat down with their AI and systematically eliminated each every thing till they knew what was and what wasn't.

We shouldn't be expecting Spacebattles competence from him. Of course, we should also bitch about what an idiot he is if he hasn't started fixing at least some of the problems revealed by the theurgic beatdown he got, but I suspect that'll be coming up in the next episode (or this ones supplementals).

Click to shrink...

Given he's perfectly happy with his Orange Light soul that should, if we are following the canon rules for the emotional spectrum, go "poof" the moment someone decides to hit him with Blue Light that seems rather unlikely.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Which is why sensible people would have sat down with their AI and systematically eliminated each every thing till they knew what was and what wasn't.

Click to shrink...

No, that's what machines do. Or clinically obsessed and compulsive people perhaps.

 

[Sceptic]

You're confusing ring skill with Orange Light knowledge.

Click to shrink...

Ah yes, because Dox is obviously a candidate for "leading expert in ring skill"...

Given he's perfectly happy with his Orange Light soul that should, if we are following the canon rules for the emotional spectrum, go "poof" the moment someone decides to hit him with Blue Light that seems rather unlikely.

Click to shrink...

Canon rules? Phhhht.

Someone actually versed in the comics will probably point out a bunch of stuff that contracts that being a consistent canon rule, but I'm going to point out instead that that's not actually a thing in this story. Not to mention the whole thing about his soul being built out of more than just orange light.

 

[Coda]

I feel reasonably certain that OL's always-on orangeness is actually a disadvantage when it comes to raw construct power. He's efficient with his ring use because he uses constructs in ways that most Green Lanterns don't -- his techniques don't seem imaginative to us now because he's settled into a few staple moves, compared to his earlier phase of experimentation where he was trying out various constructs and giving them "cool" names. But his raw construct strength hasn't yet been shown to be all that much stronger than it used to be, and I think that's where his enlightenment is a disadvantage: by knowing his desires and balancing everything automatically, he doesn't have the primal "channel unmitigated greed" power behind his constructs.

Having a default set of constructs he falls back on is, in general, actually a good thing. A lack of innovation is not a sign of weakness -- ask any significantly-experienced martial artist; having a well-rehearsed repertoire of reliable techniques is stronger and safer (for the user) than coming up with new, untested ideas on the fly. That leaves your cognitive effort available for paying attention to your opponent and choosing the appropriate technique for the situation at hand.

Paul has never really bothered to learn anything outside of the "comic knowledge" about the Orange Light he uses.

Click to shrink...

While this was historically true, it should be noted that he's going out of his way now to try to learn more about it.

 

[alid610]

Eh, I'm hoping there's actually a reason for their racism.

If it just comes down to "Stupid aliens are stupid in a way that even we enlightened humans have moved past, to make us feel better about the fact that we're inferior physically by making us morally superior", I'd find that unsatisfying.

To me, there are better explanations for "shapeshifters deeply care about what color skin you were born with" than "they're morons". My personal favorite is that it's not that they were born with skin of a particular shade, it's that being [White] or [Green] or [Red] is about being born with a certain mindset, one that you in part inherited from your parents in the womb, and the skin color is just a manifestation of who you are.

Perhaps being White means that you're warrior caste: Your enjoyment of conflict and crushing your enemies was a necessity way back when Mars was wild and unfriendly, but a detriment now that it's a peaceful communitarian society. Your mindset and values are simply different from most people around you, and they shun you because, on a pretty basic level, you live in a society that isn't designed for people like you, and there's good and solid reasons why everyone else has moved on from the kind of society you'd be happy in and doesn't want to go back to that.

Click to shrink...

I woukd tjink that the reds have racial instincts that make them naturally have distain or hate for tgeir severely alterd version.

So like reds were least altered and whites were most altered so the reds have the racial hate of burnings in them but low key enough that seeing a horrificly neutred form like whites sets off that instinct.

And bieng red naturally makes other martian submit to them as a subconcious desire especially seeing as they would be rulers as they retain their powers and the artificial fear of fire could have been used in early martian rebirth by the reds to become rulers.

Oh good.

.

The sun of Oa, thanks to Desire, made a cuckold out of Dream, for crying out loud, and humans are humanoid because Sol thought that Dream's Maltusian girlfriend was aesthetically pleasing, in the Vertigo setting.

Click to shrink...

Where was this. And in what comic? That sounds insane and as all hell.

 

[Stsword]

Where was this. And in what comic? That sounds insane and as all hell.

Click to shrink...

Sandman: Endless Nights.

It's why Dream has such a bad relationship with Desire.

Desire thought it was hilarious.

Dream, understandably, less than amused.