With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bramble Thorn]

The mountain should have an HVAC system robust enough to handle a few candles, but enough to see well by? Among wood and linen furnishings? That's just a bit iffier. If the whole thing is concrete block and wire mold construction it's more a danger of smoke inhalation than fire.

Click to shrink...

Have you ever lit candles? Scented candles get used fairly often, but when the power has gone out have had a candle lit in each room, and multiple in the living room. Nothing special about the house, and everything closed up, no door or windows open. Smoke alarms never went off. Properly made candles don't give off a lot of smoke, and what they do disperses quickly. If you are worried about smoke inhalation as a legitimate concern, then you are in a place with such bad ventilation you should be more worried about depriving yourself of oxygen during routine habitation.

 

[Aeess]

but I didn't know it went so far as Renegade mocking the senator about bad nanny laws (oh no someone got burnt, better ban fire) and Paragon seemingly a proponent exactly that sort of Nanny policies.

Click to shrink...

It was actually Paragon who was mocking the Senator.

But I think there really shouldn't be fire in the cave, only like 4 members actually live there permanently and one of them is brainwashed into being extremely afraid of fire, using artificial light instead of candles just seems like the polite thing to do.

 

[lefthandturnsignal]

Have you ever lit candles? Scented candles get used fairly often, but when the power has gone out have had a candle lit in each room, and multiple in the living room. Nothing special about the house, and everything closed up, no door or windows open. Smoke alarms never went off. Properly made candles don't give off a lot of smoke, and what they do disperses quickly. If you are worried about smoke inhalation as a legitimate concern, then you are in a place with such bad ventilation you should be more worried about depriving yourself of oxygen during routine habitation.

Click to shrink...

You are in a comparatively drafty house, not deep in a cave fortress. Depending on natural/artificial airflow it might not be a problem, but a fire is a more dangerous problem in a cave, and I'd expect candles and open flames wouldn't be allowed outside kitchen areas.

Not because a candle by itself is dangerous, but because it adds more things that can go wrong quicker than in an above ground structure.

 

[Gilhelmi]

The Embodiment of Life will be most pleased. We haven't heard from it since OL's Enlightenment.

 

[Ganurath]

Wow. Property owners in England must be complete assholes. You have a problem with candlelight? Here we actually sell them in stores, and are able to use them without burning our houses down or suffocating ourselves.

Click to shrink...

Maybe he's making an inference from the precedent set by the policy on cooking alcohol?

 

[Prince Charon]

The correct version, containing a ball and played using feet.

Click to shrink...

That doesn't answer the more important question. Again, what is a tricot in this context, please, and what is the significance of exchanging them? Google was surprisingly useless, although that may have just been me being tired.

 

[Mr Zoat]

18th February
12:17 GMT

I watch as the lorry drives through the 'mass transit size' Dolmen Gate. None of the people working in the dispatch department of Cadbury's Bourneville factory bother looking around as it disappears, though a tour group have their faces pressed up against the viewing window built into the far wall and they're not watching me.

"Working out well?"

Darren Gyle, the man assigned to escort the company owner -and I still grin a little excitedly when I think about myself like that- nods.

"We don't ship much in the way of perishable items, but just eliminating the distance between production sites and distribution centres has been a massive saving. The United Transport Union isn't all that happy about it, but… I don't think there's much we can do about that."

"It isn't practical to use the Gates to send product directly to the shops, and won't be for the foreseeable future. We aren't rendering them obsolete." Yet. I turn away from the gate and face him. "One of my Great Uncles used to work in publishing, before the Wapping dispute. He said once that he drew a small diagram for a book he was writing, and the union representative told him that he wasn't allowed to because he was accredited as an author and not a draughtsman. They argued about it for the rest of the day, and when he came back the next day, he found that it had gotten approved." I grin. "When he went to check that the union wasn't going to take it back, the union representative said that they'd had an accredited draughtsman trace his original and that had been what got approved."

"Uum."

I roll my eyes. "No, I don't have a problem with unions in general, but when their job is to fight their members' corner under any circumstances they're not necessarily doing what's good for the industry. Less driving means less fuel being consumed and less CO2​ being produced. And it lets us keep production here because we don't have to worry about delays in shipping."

He nods, a little relieved. "It's.. just… You know that ASLEF-?"

"Burned me in effigy last Halloween, yes, I am aware of that. If they do it again this year I'm planning to stand in the bonfire and patiently wait for it to go out. It'll be symbolic." Um. "I'm not-. My apparent hostility to certain unions isn't a problem for the people working in production or sales, is it?"

"I think everyone's still too glad that Kraft's bid failed to worry about it. A cast-iron guarantee about continuing production here means that their jobs are secure, and that's the biggest potential issue."

I shake my head, looking around again. "It would barely be Cadbury's if it wasn't here."

As promised, I've been almost completely hands off in my ownership of the company. Aside from the Dolmen Gates -which have resulted in visits from various manufacturing and logistics companies as they study how Cadbury's has integrated them into their supply chain- everything has come from the existing management. I can't… I don't remember his name, but there was.. someone I heard on Radio 4 a while ago who used to work in… It was either the British civil service or government. There was some.. event and they were trying to work out what the government's response would be, and he said: what if we just do nothing?

And after they reassembled their blown minds they realised that they should probably at least consider that and henceforth include that in the list of options, naming it after him.

So anyway, the management are happy because they can get on with their jobs without having to worry about their now-delisted company being taken over by some other idiots, the workers doing jobs that are actually still required are secure in their employment and getting a small pay increase due to a combination of company expansion and the lack of a requirement to pay dividends or drawings. Customers are happy because chocolate, and the company is adapting to regional tastes as it expands without any input from me.

"Is Mister Queen getting along with people?"

"Ah. I haven't had all that much to do with him personally. I know he's visited a few times, but he mostly just gets reports by e-mail."

I suppose there's no particular reason why he can't do the job like that. One site tour once a place is up and running is enough to see that it's actually working, and as Oliver Queen he can't really explain how he's visiting Britain frequently without getting horribly jetlagged. And there isn't a zeta tube in this part of the county anyway.

"Alright… I think that's everything. My next appointment is at one, so is there any chance I could get a quick tour of the place before I go?"

Mr Gyle nods.

"Yes, of course."

18th February
20:17 GMT +8

I smile as I look away from my construct screen.

"You are allowed to ask questions, you know. I'm not a commissar."

The man on the bed looks at me for a moment, then returns his eyes to the front.

"Oh, for goodness' sake, please say something."

"When do I die?"

My smile broadens. "Optimism, that's the thing!" Actually… "Not sure. I've given you a smart virus which should be able to perform telomere repairs, but… The virus itself is organic and doesn't have an error-checker…" I return my attention to the screen. "See, killing people is really easy. I'm trying to alter the human body in complex ways without killing the subject and that is not easy. Now, I understand that you gained access to a narcotic since our last session. How was it?"

"It was a bad trip."

"Good show! I was worried that the neural stabiliser systems I added to your central nervous system might… Well, it didn't and that's the main thing."

"What-." He glances at the door, and the guards just visible through the reinforced glass window. "What is it that you are trying to do to me?"

"Did you know that humans are fundamentally the same beings now as they were when they first left Africa? Oh, there are a few minor changes here and there; Europeans got the ability to digest milk better, Africans recover their hearing from loud noises more quickly and the Japanese starve more slowly. And a little Neanderthal got added in… But the drives modern humans have are the ones they needed in order to perform the tasks vital to a hunter-gatherer. Modern humans aren't hunter-gatherers. You're not a hunter-gatherer. You're a drug dealer. You don't need the same drives and abilities they did. So I'm changing you into a type of human adapted for modern life."

"And I will live?"

"Ah… Probably. I mean, your chances are better as a volunteer than not, but people have died as a result of my work."

Alas, Mother Box isn't anything like as enthusiastic about this project as Father Box was. Which I suppose makes sense. Still, altering the reward mechanisms of the human brain is a complex business. Read a.. book a while ago where a transhuman made what she called a 'patch' for humanity. Spread it using the cold virus. Reduced violent conflict to nothing by creating intrapsychic rewards for cooperation rather than competition, but killed people's motivation. I don't want to repeat her mistakes.

"Now, I understand that your critical reasoning test results have improved lately?"

"Yes."

"And how do you feel about that?"

He gives his head a small shake. "I.. don't. Why are you making me more intelligent?"

"I'm learning how to improve the human brain. For you, it might help you convince the authorities to keep you around once this study is over. How are you getting along with the other prisoners?"

"Better. I think-. I thought that it was our shared captivity, but… It was you."

"Little from column A, little from column B. I'm trying to change how human ingroup outgroup differentiation works. Making you silly monkeys a bit more rational and a bit less clannish. Seems to be working. Now, have a look at this and tell me what you see."

 

[SebazuD]

So was this a comparison on them trying to improve the world or a prellude to this being a chapter where they switch places/mmet each other?

 

[Buggy123]

18th February
20:17 GMT +8

Click to shrink...

Huh, using acceptable targets as test subjects for risky-but-rewarding augmentation/transhuman development experiments. Interesting, and I wonder how it'll play out.

And I gotta say, good call with the hard-pass on the cooperation-substitution idea; sounds good at first, terrible idea in practice because none of the people you want to cooperate with want anything for themselves. No need, anyway. Cooperation is usually the most rational option anyway; get rid of some of those pesky tribal instincts and improve the average critical reasoning abilities, and you'll easily improve things by a order of magnitude.

 

[Rederic]

Doesn't telling him about the changes mar the test results? Or is this just for the audience?

Of course, maybe there's another control group with the changes but they haven't been told what they do, contrasted with one without the changes that have been told they have them.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I watch as the lorry drives through the 'mass transit size' Dolmen Gate. None of the people working in the dispatch department of Cadburys' Bourneville factory bother looking around as it disappears, though a tour group have their faces pressed up against the viewing window built into the far wall and they're not watching me.

"Working out well?"

Darren Gyle, the man assigned to escort the company owner -and I still grin a little excitedly when I think about myself like that- nods.

Click to shrink...

Amusing to see the outcome of OL's little venture into business...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"We don't ship much in the way of perishable items, but just eliminating the distance between production sites and distribution centres has been a massive saving. The United Transport Union isn't all that happy about it, but… I don't think there's much we can do about that."

"It isn't practical to use the Gates to send product directly to the shops, and won't for the foreseeable future. We aren't rendering them obsolete." Yet. I turn away from the gate and face him. "One of my Great Uncles used to work in publishing, before the Wapping dispute. He said once that he drew a small diagram for a book he was writing, and the union representative told him that he wasn't allowed to because he was accredited as an author and not a draughtsman. They argued about it for the rest of the day, and when he came back the next day, he found that it had gotten approved." I grin. "When he went to check that the union wasn't going to take it back, the union representative said that they'd have an accredited draughtsman trace his original and that had been what got approved."

Click to shrink...

Yes, yes, Unions are crazy. Let's not argue over the matter in thread though?

"Uum."

I roll my eyes. "No, I don't have a problem with unions in general, but when their job is to fight their members' corner under any circumstances they're not necessarily doing what's good for the industry. Less driving means less fuel being consumed and less CO2​ being produced. And it lets us keep production here because we don't have to worry about delays in shipping."

He nods, a little relieved. "It's.. just… You know that ASLEF-?"

Click to shrink...

Are they still unhappy about the London Dolmen Gate network project?

"Burned me in effigy last Halloween, yes, I am aware of that. If they do it again this year I'm planning to stand in the bonfire and patiently wait for it to go out. It'll be symbolic." Um. "I'm not-. My apparent hostility to certain unions isn't a problem for the people working in production or sales, is it?"

"I think everyone's still too glad that Kraft's bid failed to worry about it. A cast-iron guarantee about continuing production here means that their jobs are secure, and that's the biggest potential issue."

I shake my head, looking around again. "It would barely be Cadburys' if it wasn't here."

Click to shrink...

OL takes his chocolate very seriously, doesn't he?

As promised, I've been almost completely hands off in my ownership of the company. Aside from the Dolmen Gates -which have resulted in visits from various manufacturing and logistics companies as they study how Cadburys' has integrated them into their supply chain- everything has come from the existing management. I can't… I don't remember his name, but there was.. someone I heard on Radio 4 a while ago who used to work in… It was either the British civil service or government. There was some.. event and they were trying to work out what the government's response would be, and he said: what if we just do nothing?

Click to shrink...

As in 'tThings will sort themselves out by themselves'?

And after they reassembled their blown minds they realised that they should probably at least consider that and henceforth include that in the list of options, naming it after him.

Click to shrink...

Ha! What a way to be remembered.

So anyway, the management are happy because they can get on with their jobs without having to worry about their now-delisted company being taken over by some other idiots, the workers doing jobs that are actually still required are secure in their employment and getting a small pay increase due to a combination of company expansion and the lack of a requirement to pay dividends or drawings. Customers are happy because chocolate, and the company is adapting to regional tastes as it expands without any input from me.

Click to shrink...

Much better than the real world's then... (again, let's not argue about it?)

"Is Mister Queen getting along with people?"

"Ah. I haven't had all that much to do with him personally. I know he's visited a few times, but he mostly just gets reports by e-mail."

I suppose there's no particular reason why he can't do the job like that. One site tour once a place is up and running is enough to see that it's actually working, and as Oliver Queen he can't really explain how he's visiting Britain frequently without getting horribly jetlagged. And there isn't a zeta tube in this part of the county anyway.

Click to shrink...

And I doubt he could get airspace clearance for the Arrowplane...

"Alright… I think that's everything. My next appointment is at one, so is there any chance I could get a quick tour of the place before I go?"

Mr Gyle nods.

"Yes, of course."

Click to shrink...

Ah, OL, never change...

18th February
20:17 GMT +8

I smile as I look away from my construct screen.

Click to shrink...

Wait what? What? The blazes? Renegade in a Paragon segment?

"You are allowed to ask questions, you know. I'm not a commissar."

The man on the bed looks at me for a moment, then returns his eyes to the front.

"Oh, for goodness' sake, please say something."

"When do I die?"

Click to shrink...

<facepalm> Grayven isn't that kind of boss, you know.

My smile broadens. "Optimism, that's the thing!" Actually… "Not sure. I've given you a smart virus which should be able to perform telomere repairs, but… The virus itself is organic and doesn't have an error-checker…" I return my attention to the screen. "See, killing people is really easy. I'm trying to alter the human body in complex ways without killing the subject and that is not easy. Now, I understand that you gained access to a narcotic since our last session. How was it?"

"It was a bad trip."

Click to shrink...

Not very smart, was he? Mixing 'medications' like that.

"Good show! I was worried that the neural stabiliser systems I added to your central nervous system might… Well, it didn't and that's the main thing."

"What-." He glances at the door, and the guards just visible through the reinforced glass window. "What is it that you are trying to do to me?"

Click to shrink...

I'm wondering that myself...

"Did you know that humans are fundamentally the same beings now as they were when they first left Africa? Oh, there are a few minor changes here and there; Europeans got the ability to digest milk better, Africans recover their hearing from loud noises more quickly and the Japanese starve more slowly. And a little Neanderthal got added in… But the drives modern humans have are the ones they needed in order to perform the tasks vital to a hunter-gatherer. Modern humans aren't hunter-gatherers. You're not a hunter-gatherer. You're a drug dealer. You don't need the same drives and abilities they did. So I'm changing you into a type of human adapted for modern life."

Click to shrink...

Fascinating. Forced evolution.

"And I will live?"

"Ah… Probably. I mean, your chances are better as a volunteer than not, but people have died as a result of my work."

Click to shrink...

Oh, dear. I get the feeling this isn't the Renegade we're used to, is it?

Alas, Mother Box isn't anything like as enthusiastic about this project as Father Box was. Which I suppose makes sense. Still, altering the reward mechanisms of the human brain is a complex business. Read a.. book a while ago where a transhuman make what she called a 'patch' for humanity. Spread it using the cold virus. Reduced violent conflict to nothing by creating intrapsychic rewards for cooperation rather than competition, but killed people's motivation. I don't want to repeat her mistakes.

Click to shrink...

I should say so. That doesn't sound pleasant at all...

"Now, I understand that your critical reasoning test results have improved lately?"

"Yes."

"And how do you feel about that?"

He gives his head a small shake. "I.. don't. Why are you making me more intelligent?"

Click to shrink...

Well, it's only a side-effect.

"I'm learning how to improve the human brain. For you, it might help you convince the authorities to keep you around once this study is over. How are you getting along with the other prisoners?"

"Better. I think-. I thought that it was our shared captivity, but… It was you."

"Little from column A, little from column B. I'm trying to change how human ingroup outgroup differentiation works. Making you silly monkeys a bit more rational and a bit less clannish. Seems to be working. Now, have a look at this and tell me what you see."

Click to shrink...

So, he's aiming for something akin to golden age Kryptonians - near-superhuman development of the human body. Seriously, before Supes got power-wanked, he was basically a Danner-type superhuman with improved senses...

Odd placement for a combination chapter. Comparison of methodology, a prelude to something more, or just couldn't think of something worth a full chapter of each?

 

[Ngamer11]

I like the little callbacks to things. The Dolmen Gates from the gnomes, train workers hating OL, OL buying a chocolate factory, Grayven doing the intelligence boost Paul did to that Taiwanese guy who was forcibly injected with discount Venom during the Rhelesia peace talks, even the little snippet of Grayven saying how humans have changed which is paraphrased from Paul's discussion with Artemis and Paula during their dinner. I don't remember if anyone ever said that 'let's do nothing' phrase in story before however. Could someone link it so we know if it's a callback to something too?

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Oh, dear. I get the feeling this isn't the Renegade we're used to, is it?

Click to shrink...

Why? renegade has killed a lot of politicians before and done 'human' experimentation.

Odd placement for a combination chapter. Comparison of methodology, a prelude to something more, or just couldn't think of something worth a full chapter of each?

Click to shrink...

I hope it's the former but it's probably the latter

 

[Handlewithcare]

Huh. How ironic that Grayven is the one doctoring with humans fundamental drives.

Until you realise that Paul doesn't have to of course.

Because he can see the most fundamental aspects of motivation, the very foundation of what someone is and alter them at will.

If you stop to think about it it's utterly mind blowing.

 

[FreeGod]

Huh. How ironic that Grayven is the one doctoring with humans fundamental drives.

Until you realise that Paul doesn't have to of course.

Because he can see the most fundamental aspects of motivation, the very foundation of what someone is and alter them at will.

If you stop to think about it it's utterly mind blowing.

Click to shrink...

Yes Paul could likely manage the project with must less need for research.

 

[Prince Charon]

As promised, I've been almost completely hands off in my ownership of the company. Aside from the Dolmen Gates -which have resulted in visits from various manufacturing and logistics companies as they study how Cadbury's has integrated them into their supply chain- everything has come from the existing management. I can't… I don't remember his name, but there was.. someone I heard on Radio 4 a while ago who used to work in… It was either the British civil service or government. There was some.. event and they were trying to work out what the government's response would be, and he said: what if we just do nothing?

And after they reassembled their blown minds they realised that they should probably at least consider that and henceforth include that in the list of options, naming it after him.

Click to shrink...

Do you-the-author remember who it was? If so, please tell us.

 

[Buggy123]

Do you-the-author remember who it was? If so, please tell us.

Click to shrink...

The first thing that comes to mind is Incorruptible, which uses the same concept, but its a short story and I don't think it's the one he's talking about.

Edit: whoops, thought you were asking about the book. That's a reading comprehension fail for me.

 

[Korfayron]

What was the cold virus book?

 

[Dakkan Sall]

So was this a comparison on them trying to improve the world or a prellude to this being a chapter where they switch places/mmet each other?

Click to shrink...

Probably the switch/meet. And... considering the title of the arc, my guess is either a 'swap,' or there's going to be a grand gathering/abduction of their alternates. Since there's been a bit of an upswing in non-Paragon/Renegade chapters within the last... year and half or so (relatively recent since the fic has been going on since 2013)... those being shown looks to be leading into a grand crossover event or similar.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Probably the switch/meet. And... considering the title of the arc, my guess is either a 'swap,' or there's going to be a grand gathering/abduction of their alternates. Since there's been a bit of an upswing in non-Paragon/Renegade chapters within the last... year and half or so (relatively recent since the fic has been going on since 2013)... those being shown looks to be leading into a grand crossover event or similar.

Click to shrink...

LMAO imagine paul twelve being the only guy without a power ring at that meeting.

 

[Mquz]

The switch is probably going to happen on April 1st - that's only a month and a half away in universe. Sure, that's enough time for a couple arcs, but it's soon... Sort of surprised there wasn't anything special for Valentine's Day in-universe - like Paul sending Jade a gift of some sort.

 

[Aeess]

Sort of surprised there wasn't anything special for Valentine's Day in-universe - like Paul sending Jade a gift of some sort.

Click to shrink...

Really?

"I thought Valentine's Day was in March."

Click to shrink...

 

[Ace Dreamer]

LMAO imagine paul twelve being the only guy without a power ring at that meeting.

Click to shrink...

Imagine Paul-12 being the only one with a power ring at that meeting...

Yes, I was confused by the switch to what I assumed was Grayven/Renegade in the middle of the chapter. Zoat is sneaky enough that I've no idea what might be being planned! Switching just the minds of Paul/Paragon with Grayven/Renegade, for a period, might be a fun idea, though...

 

[Mquz]

The switch is probably going to happen on April 1st - that's only a month and a half away in universe. Sure, that's enough time for a couple arcs, but it's soon... Sort of surprised there wasn't anything special for Valentine's Day in-universe - like Paul sending Jade a gift of some sort.

Click to shrink...

I said Sort Of - still, it's an important date for couples in the states, and Paul should probably pay a little more attention to Jade, if he can instantaneously travel with gifts.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

I said Sort Of - still, it's an important date for couples in the states, and Paul should probably pay a little more attention to Jade, if he can instantaneously travel with gifts.

Click to shrink...

All sorts of weird transformation stuff in DC, but I'm not familiar with anyone who can transform opponents into their favourite sort of chocolate... Probably have to turn to somewhere like 'Dragonball' for that... But, a 'My Favorite Chocolate Raygun' might make a nice Valentine gift for some.

(There's some people would probably try and half-transform bacon with it. )

 

[Buggy123]

What was the cold virus book?

Click to shrink...

Oh, whoops. I kinda got who was asking what mixed up. See this message:

The first thing that comes to mind is Incorruptible, which uses the same concept, but its a short story and I don't think it's the one he's talking about.

Click to shrink...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Do you-the-author remember who it was? If so, please tell us.

Click to shrink...

I'm afraid that I don't remember.

What was the cold virus book?

Click to shrink...

I'm afraid that I don't remember. Basically, there was a super disease ravaging the Earth and people couldn't develop a cure. So they put as many people as they could into suspended animation and created a group of transhumans who were immune to it so that they could work on a cure and then wake the rest of humanity up. The transhumans 'grew up' in virtual reality, one of them didn't so much 'go crazy' as get 'driven crazy' due to one of the scientists trying to give him a 'leadership persona', but they managed to do the job... And then all of the people they woke up were massively ungrateful and uncooperative and caused several wars and in the end the transhuman in charge of security just blows a bunch of them up with implanted explosives.

 

[jonasquinn]

I'm almost certain that the half and half chapters have happened before and it wasn't indicative of a swap there, I think it's more likely that Mr Zoat jut had an idea for two scenes he wanted to have but weren't long enough to dedicate an entire update to individually

 

[thebishop8]

I'm almost certain that the half and half chapters have happened before and it wasn't indicative of a swap there, I think it's more likely that Mr Zoat jut had an idea for two scenes he wanted to have but weren't long enough to dedicate an entire update to individually

Click to shrink...

It has happened at least once before: https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-56#post-2616348

But the Renegade segment in that chapter is much shorter, and it has an obvious relation to the Paragon one. (Paragon says "What else would I want to spend my birthday doing?", smash cut to the Renegade spending it getting the Joker's autograph for someone.

 

[jonasquinn]

It has happened at least once before: https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-56#post-2616348

But the Renegade segment in that chapter is much shorter, and it has an obvious relation to the Paragon one. (Paragon says "What else would I want to spend my birthday doing?", smash cut to the Renegade spending it getting the Joker's autograph for someone.

Click to shrink...

You could argue that these scenes are related in that they're showing what both Paul's are doing to help society, admittedly in very different ways

Also I'll admit I don't really want a crossover episode cos as someone with very little investment in Renegade I fear I'd be very lost at parts