With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Aelyx]

Is Paul going to try and sit down with Earth groups to find recruits for the Darkstars? There's probably quite a few people who could go and possibly get Danner enhanced to help fight heavies. I'm not sure how magic would work against the Reach.

 

[Mr Zoat]

But if the villains were written even vaguely competently they'd win.

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Naturally.

Is Paul going to try and sit down with Earth groups to find recruits for the Darkstars? There's probably quite a few people who could go and possibly get Danner enhanced to help fight heavies. I'm not sure how magic would work against the Reach.

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Not his job. Naturally, Director Jeddigar is welcome to send recruiters whenever he wants, but it's a bit of a trek for anyone not the SI.

 

[Vaermina]

"Immediately lethal gamma radiation dose released. Unshielded humans suffered extreme damage to soft tissue."

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An actual immediate lethal dose of Gamma Ray's would expand out for miles and kill tens of thousands.

And that's just for something effective against a normal human, for something immediately lethal against someone with super healing like The Flash you would need a lot higher.

So either OL rigged the bands or he failed to do his research.

Edit: Also there's the whole problem with high energy Gamma Ray's in atmosphere causing giant explosions.

 

[Jacob Tibbs]

An actual immediate lethal dose of Gamma Ray's would expand out for miles and kill tens of thousands.

And that's just for something effective against a normal human, for something immediately lethal against someone with super healing like The Flash you would need a lot higher.

So either OL rigged the bands or he failed to do his research.

Edit: Also there's the whole problem with high energy Gamma Ray's in atmosphere causing giant explosions.

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Uh a lethal dose of gamma rays would feel like standing in front of a heat lamp... You would be puking your brains out in like 1-2 minutes and dead within a day or two after severe symptoms including a debilitating migraine after about 10 minutes.

We are talking about 3-5000 joules energy total here, aka about 10 seconds exposure to a heat lamp.

If you want to get comic book levels of energy, 100 times that (500000 joules) would be enough to turn a human into a medium-rare steak. Thats instant death. Well more like Gove you severe burns and a 110+ degree fever from instant heating

It would be scorching hot, but not enormously powerful. If it was in a coherent wave and not just indiscriminate sprayed in all directions the atmosphere could absorb it to safe levels relatively quickly.

Even going through 3-4 good concrete walls would drop it to like 12% its strength.

Give it another 1000 feet in air and you are 0.01% the original strength

 

[Vaermina]

Uh a lethal dose of gamma rays would feel like standing in front of a heat lamp... You would be puking your brains out in like 1-2 minutes and dead within a day or two after severe symptoms including a debilitating migraine after about 10 minutes.

We are talking about 3-5000 joules energy total here, aka about 10 seconds exposure to a heat lamp.

If you want to get comic book levels of energy, 100 times that (500000 joules) would be enough to turn a human into a medium-rare steak. Thats instant death. Well more like Gove you severe burns and a 110+ degree fever from instant heating

It would be scorching hot, but not enormously powerful. If it was in a coherent wave and not just indiscriminate sprayed in all directions the atmosphere could absorb it to safe levels relatively quickly.

Even going through 3-4 good concrete walls would drop it to like 12% its strength.

Give it another 1000 feet in air and you are 0.01% the original strength

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You're confusing "lethal" in that you will die in a day or two with the "immediately lethal" you are instantly dead that supposedly occurred in the story.

Also you're comparing a regular human to The Flash. But that's a whole other problem.

 

[Ardy]

Also you're comparing a regular human to The Flash. But that's a whole other problem.

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If anything, Flash's accelerated metabolism should have made the spread of damage worse

 

[Z3r0Sama]

If anything, Flash's accelerated metabolism should have made the spread of damage worse

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Also DC humans in general are alot tougher than us. See regular humans like Lois Lane getting punted into walls and getting up with nary a limp.

 

[Ardy]

Also DC humans in general are alot tougher than us. See regular humans like Lois Lane getting punted into walls and getting up with nary a limp.

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I'm pretty sure that's just Lois being an abnormality (see also: boning superman without liquefying)

 

[Grimnar]

So I've been rereading this- very jarring to see how OL started to where he is now (and very disapointing to see several moments not happen that sets up later events. Like, we get shown OL and Guy's first meeting, but not their first training session (just a brief mention of it). Nor do we see his first Meetings with Ted Kord and the set up for that).

One of the things that stuck out to me is the mention that his Ring can forge Other Rings from scratch, just requiring a lot of Avarice and time, but this was during his early months. I wonder how quickly he can make a new Ring for himself Post Enlightenment.

 

[hkim]

It's a bit obtuse in that case. Sportsball rivalries are serious enough business that I imagine most people would default to that. I imagine it's likely the same with some of the teams where you're at?

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This is what I had assumed. I didn't go much deeper.

 

[Siiracai The Supernal]

An actual immediate lethal dose of Gamma Ray's would expand out for miles and kill tens of thousands.

And that's just for something effective against a normal human, for something immediately lethal against someone with super healing like The Flash you would need a lot higher.

So either OL rigged the bands or he failed to do his research.

Edit: Also there's the whole problem with high energy Gamma Ray's in atmosphere causing giant explosions.

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I would like to point out that this is a DC comic universe, and is not in any way, shape or form, beholden to our mortal laws of existance. The thought that anything that dangerous would stay at that level is simply preposterous! (Note that the last line was slightly sarcastic)

 

[Siiracai The Supernal]

I'm pretty sure that's just Lois being an abnormality (see also: boning superman without liquefying)

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Also, what?!

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Also, what?!

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Clark's body is literally harder than any substance on earth. Couple that with the fact that once, he sneezed and knocked over half a block, his other...involuntary actions could potentially go off like a rifle shot. Even if they don't, you still have alien sperm swimming around inside a fragile in comparison human body. Sperm that could, in theory, shred right through steel.

Multiple times throughout the years Batman has nearly shattered his own hand, a hand with multimillion dollar protective covering on it I might add, by striking Clark. Typically Superman points out that if he had not gone with the punch, Bruce really would have broken something.

So Lois, riding Clark's Super-Peen, is basically riding atop a steel tube attached to a hunk of diamond. I really don't see how Clark could have the dick control to flex and bend with Lois, as a dick tends to do, instead of shredding right through her.

 

[hkim]

Clark's body is literally harder than any substance on earth. Couple that with the fact that once, he sneezed and knocked over half a block, his other...involuntary actions could potentially go off like a rifle shot. Even if they don't, you still have alien sperm swimming around inside a fragile in comparison human body. Sperm that could, in theory, shred right through steel.

Multiple times throughout the years Batman has nearly shattered his own hand, a hand with multimillion dollar protective covering on it I might add, by striking Clark. Typically Superman points out that if he had not gone with the punch, Bruce really would have broken something.

So Lois, riding Clark's Super-Peen, is basically riding atop a steel tube attached to a hunk of diamond. I really don't see how Clark could have the dick control to flex and bend with Lois, as a dick tends to do, instead of shredding right through her.

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Don't they have that whole "touch telekinesis" BS to explain that sort of thing?

 

[Vaermina]

If anything, Flash's accelerated metabolism should have made the spread of damage worse

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That's specific types of poison, not radiation.

 

[Grimnar]

Holy fuck, OL used to really Psychic. What happened to that? There were points early on where he picked up non telepaths thinking really loudly.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Oh, dear. Who? Captain Atom?

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Look I know that whenever DC does an apocalypse story captain atom goes down, but that's more for plot reasons when he doesn't have plot vulnerability he's a tough little cookie to kill.

 

[CTrees]

Also, what?!

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Look up the Larry Niven essay, Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex. Niven spent a lot of time thinking about interspecies sexual relations...

 

[Stsword]

Don't they have that whole "touch telekinesis" BS to explain that sort of thing?

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That has been a fan theory for quite a while, but hasn't been made canon until post flashpoint- Jor-El sent cell samples into outerspace to see if his theory about kryptonian cells converting solar radiation into psychic energy was true, creating H'el. So apparently the cell samples got enough solar radiation to grow into a person.

Although Superboy's tactile telekinesis was suggestive of kryptonian powers being psychic in nature.

Kryptonian powers being gravity manipulation has also been true- In Planetary vs JLA, and the Smallville comic not only gave Superman flight, but the ability to make himself superheavy, which certainly implies gravity manipulation.

 

[Ardy]

That's specific types of poison, not radiation.

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Now I'm pretty sure that's not correct, but just in case, let's compare metahuman medical degrees.

You first.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Hmm....the argument with Flash's accelerated metabolism reminds me of a small plot point in the "Salvation War" works.

If I'm remembering it correctly, in that work, the creatures known as Angels and Demons both were biological rather then theological in nature. Humanoid in nature and for the most part in biology (demon's physiology varied far more from baselines then angels whom generally only varied in size and power)

The Angels had several altered aspects of biology. A significant difference in size compared to humans, the as expected wings, the ability to produce a sonic attack. But one of the less dramatic powers was an increased healing factor and extremely slow aging process. This was speculated to be due to a near perfect form of cellular mitosis, where damaged or aged cells were rapidly replaced.

Spoiler: Ye Spoilers of Biblical Proportians

During the 'war on heaven' in the story, *spoilers* Humans deploy a tactical nuke to the fields outside the city, upon a host of angels. Those that did not die directly from the blast were exposed to hard radiation, which had a unexpected interaction with their healing factors. The exposure damaged the dna of the angels cell structure, those cells seemed to keep the accelerated division, and seemed to even increase the speed of which it reproduced the now damaged dna strands, leading to the angels that survived turning into .... well...massive feathered balls of cancer would not be underselling it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

2nd March
13:34 GMT -7

I sigh as another Almeracian portal shimmers open.

"Knockout, do you want to get that-?"

She's already in motion, grabbing the would-be assassin around the neck before he's fully through and squeezing.

Well, it's efficient I suppose.

I nod as she drags the corpse through the collapsing portal. "Bag him up, then send it to Cranius. Like the others."

Which has got to be doing wonders for his human telepathy and telekinesis research. Between him and Doctor Williams, they've got to be close to being ready to experiment by now. I'm pretty sure that Adam Blake would appreciate anything further they can do for him as well. He still hasn't fully recovered from what the First did to turn him into a telekinetic weapon system.

I turn to Sazu, who's keeping Rex entertained with a purple windmill toy while his parents pick a fight with a coterie of villainous mercenaries in Africa.

"Not that I mind, but how many of these should we expect?"

"It's hard to be certain." She bends forward as he reaches out for it with one chubby hand. "Based on the demographics of his supporters, the production of psychic warriors capable of generating rifts of that nature -yes, it's shiny isn't it? Yes it is- and how hard my mistress is pressing him, I would be surprised if he could afford to spare more than five assassins."

"And why are they coming one by one? After the first one didn't report back you'd think that he'd get a clue."

"Oh, no." She gives Rex another smile and then turns to face me. "I doubt that he ordered them to come here. Most of his followers simply find my mistress taking me as her consort and lover so profoundly disturbing that it may well be that they are taking the initiative."

"And not talking to each other about it?"

"When you give someone powerful psychic abilities… Something has to give."

"Even with Maxima? She seems reasonably together."

"Queen Maxima is the first of a new generation, and… She turned out extremely well, but even then there are limitations. She can be quite impatient. I don't think that she's ever finished a book, even one about a topic that should interest her. And I was honestly surprised when she announced her intention to come here to acquire a mate."

"Why?"

"It was an unusually creative idea for her. Her mind excels in dealing with situations which require immediate decisions, but she struggles with long term or abstract planning."

"That seems like a bit of a flaw."

"Oh, no." She shakes her head. "Her abilities in those fields aren't significantly worse than… Well, than the average human. But for her it seems so slow. She craves the stimulation that comes from combat."

That definitely seems like a flaw.

"Oh, I wanted to ask who your final nomination was."

"For what?"

"When you tried to arrange a mate for her? She told me that once you convinced her that someone with my skill set would be a better co-regent, you tried to show her someone. I've been wondering who it was."

"Oh. A man named Alexander Luthor. He's an extremely wealthy businessman who built an international conglomerate out of.. basically nothing. Intelligent, disciplined, focused and… Hm."

"He sounds as though he would have been a good match."

"I don't know. Obviously I didn't know about you when I started suggesting people, but Lex is socially aggressive, and.. assertive in a way which you.. don't appear to be. I had thought that someone who could think like Maxima, but… Apply it to administration rather than combat would be a good match. I didn't have anyone of your personality type on the list until much further down."

"Hm. How much-?" Rex grasps her right forefinger, earning himself another fond smile while she scrolls through articles on her computer with her free hand. "How much did she tell you about Almerac?"

"Not a lot."

"My mistress wouldn't want to risk two unknowns. Someone from Earth who shared her warrior outlook would have been acceptable. Someone from Almerac who didn't would be fine. Someone from Earth who thought differently to her, she would have felt obliged to fight for dominance. And if they weren't a warrior, that wouldn't have worked." She suddenly looks… Like she wants me to know that I'm on to her. "What else made you select this 'Alexander Luthor'?"

"He's an ally of mine. I thought it might help our work to tie Almerac and Earth together, economically and militarily."

"Our navy is a little bit bigger than yours."

"Even now, class for class, ours are more effective." She raises both eyebrows. "Once we've actually built them."

"We have three hundred and sixty two orbital docking slips. How many do you have?"

"What, me? Including Tamaran, about two hundred. But Earth probably won't build them. Their technology is too advanced to have purely space ships. Even the Starseeker can switch between atmosphere and interplanetary flight without any difficulty and that thing's forty years old. Your ships can't do that."

And that's not even starting on the advantages the luminal drive has over the telekinetic space-warping system they use. The Earth Defence Force's cruisers will be able to dance around anything Almerac could throw at them… Once we've built them. Because unfortunately putting a luminal drive on a planet is somewhat cost-prohibitive, and right now the Almerac navy could just rush Earth. And will be able to even once the first flotilla is finished.

"True. If the alliance could have been made to work, it would have benefited both of us. But I don't believe that it could."

"No?"

"Our warrior class wouldn't have accepted an alliance between our peoples any more than they have accepted my marriage to my mistress. They would have seen the people of Earth as too weak to treat with as equals, no matter the power of your technology."

"I suppose that when all you have is a hammer…" I frown. "Wait. You're not here just to keep you safe-?"

"Of course not." She smiles pleasantly. "Maxima rules Almerac. I govern Almerac, and that includes making alliances with other spacefaring species."

"And?"

"If you're successful, your people will certainly be worth our time. But if some greater power stamps on you before you are ready, Almerac will be happy to offer the survivors sanctuary. The handful of you who are meaningfully contributing to Earth's advancement would make excellent additions to our empire. You're right; our fleet has become rather moribund. We've focused too much on breeding better warriors and not enough on paradigm shifting technology. We create breeding lines based on what we need now, not based on what we will need tomorrow."

"And you're fixing that."

"I'm trying to. I'm part of the old paradigm myself." She lays a hand on her stomach. "But Maxima Junior is something new. She has traits we don't usually put in warriors. We were inspired by you, actually."

"How so?"

"You can fight and you can plan. We've always made them separate roles, but the way you combine them makes you better at both." She looks up at the clear sky for a moment. "Oh, they're nearly here."

"Who are?"

"The actual assassins. They're coming by ship."

 

[Ganurath]

So... they're Clanners from Battletech, but with psychic powers. Lovely.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Why is a luminal drive on earth costly?

Also, interesting inside into Almerac, though I have to say flaws like this are...pretty big ones. Hadfly seems like a stable society and therefore not a good ally.

 

[Razorfloss]

So... they're Clanners from Battletech, but with psychic powers. Lovely.

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This is a very good point now that I think about it. Love how the wife is playing politics while hiding out and is so unconcerned about the incoming assassin's. Looks like grayven is about to have another godchild.

 

[Chaoswind]

"The actual assassins. They're coming by ship."

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I guess the interdiction fields set by Grayven don't stop the telekinetic ftl drives of the people of Amarak... And oversight, but not a complete plothole if addressed.

 

[Imperator Pax]

So... they're Clanners from Battletech, but with psychic powers. Lovely.

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With offensively useful psychic powers

Gods, the Clan Invasion kickstarter can't start delivering mechs soon enough for me.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

I sigh as another Almeracian portal shimmers open.

"Knockout, do you want to get that-?"

She's already in motion, grabbing the would-be assassin around the neck before he's fully through and squeezing.

Click to shrink...

Ah, the joy of teleportaion methods that aren't perfectly instant: ambushes on the other end.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Well, it's efficient I suppose.

I nod as she drags the corpse through the collapsing portal. "Bag him up, then send it to Cranius. Like the others."

Which has got to be doing wonders for his human telepathy and telekinesis research. Between him and Doctor Williams, they've got to be close to being ready to experiment by now. I'm pretty sure that Adam Blake would appreciate anything further they can do for him as well. He still hasn't fully recovered from what the First did to turn him into a telekinetic weapon system.

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And Grayven isn't invested enough in Vega, or him specifically, to repair him fully, I take it?

I turn to Sazu, who's keeping Rex entertained with a purple windmill toy while his parents pick a fight with a coterie of villainous mercenaries in Africa.

"Not that I mind, but how many of these should we expect?"

Click to shrink...

Not that many, I expect. Between the skill and the fervour needed...

"It's hard to be certain." She bends forward as he reaches out for it with one chubby hand. "Based on the demographics of his supporters, the production of psychic warriors capable of generating rifts of that nature -yes, it's shiny isn't it? Yes it is- and how hard my mistress is pressing him, I would be surprised if he could afford to spare more than five assassins."

"And why are they coming one by one? After the first one didn't report back you'd think that he'd get a clue."

"Oh, no." She gives Rex another smile and then turns to face me. "I doubt that he ordered them to come here. Most of his followers simply find my mistress taking me as her consort and lover so profoundly disturbing that it may well be that they are taking the initiative."

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Ah. Enthusiastic followers. The most annoying kind. Because they're too eager to please their master, and too dumb to consider the consequences.

"And not talking to each other about it?"

"When you give someone powerful psychic abilities… Something has to give."

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So phenomenal mental abilities paired with sub-par mental facilities. No wonder they're too dumb to live.

"Even with Maxima She seems reasonably together."

"Queen Maxima is the first of a new generation, and… She turned out extremely well, but even then there are limitations. She can be quite impatient. I don't think that she's ever finished a book, even one about a topic that should interest her. And I was honestly surprised when she announced her intention to come here to acquire a mate."

Click to shrink...

Sounds like she's like a kid with ADHD, always focusing on something new and forgetting about it soon after...

"Why?"

"It was an unusually creative idea for her. Her mind excels in dealing with situation which require immediate decisions, but she struggles with long term or abstract planning."

Click to shrink...

Definitely a kid with ADHD, then.

"That seems like a bit of a flaw."

"Oh, no." She shakes her head. "Her abilities in those fields aren't significantly worse than… Well, than the average human. But for her it seems so slow. She craves the stimulation that comes from combat."

That definitely seems like a flaw.

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Yeah, but of a worry...

"Oh, I wanted to ask who your final nomination was."

"For what?"

"When you tried to arrange a mate for her? She told me that once you convinced her that someone with my skill set would be a better co-regent, you tried to show her someone. I've been wondering who it was."

Click to shrink...

Oh-ho, is that jealousy I detect?

"Oh. A man named Alexander Luthor. He's a extremely wealthy businessman who built an international conglomerate out of.. basically nothing. Intelligent, disciplined, focused and… Hm."

"He sounds as though he would have been a good match."

Click to shrink...

Depends on how he'd get along with an alien wanting, well, Snu-Snu.

"I don't know. Obviously I didn't know about you when I started suggesting people, but Lex is socially aggressive, and.. assertive in a way which you.. don't appear to be. I had thought that someone who could think like Maxima, but… Apply it to administration rather than combat would be a good match. I didn't have anyone of your personality type on the list until much further down."

"Hm. How much-?" Rex grasps her right forefinger, earning himself another fond smile while she scrolls through articles on her computer with her free hand. "How much did she tell you about Almerac?"

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Because I'm betting it would not have worked out with Lex...

"Not a lot."

"My mistress wouldn't want to risk two unknowns. Someone from Earth who shared her warrior outlook would have been acceptable. Someone from Almerac who didn't would be fine. Someone from Earth who thought differently to her, she would have felt obliged to fight for dominance. And if they weren't a warrior, that wouldn't have worked." She suddenly looks… Like she wants me to know that I'm on to her. "What else made you select this 'Alexander Luthor'?"

"He's an ally of mine. I thought it might help our work to tie Almerac and Earth together, economically and militarily."

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Ah, Grayven, Acquiring via empowering as usual.

"Our navy is a little bit bigger than yours."

"Even now, class for class, ours are more effective." She raises both eyebrows. "Once we've actually built them."

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Heh, boasting of our future capabilites. Not the best way to do it.

"We have three hundred and sixty two orbital docking slips. How many do you have?"

"What, me? Including Tamaran, about two hundred. But Earth probably won't build them. Their technology is too advanced to have purely space ships. Even the Starseeker can switch between atmosphere and interplanetary flight without any difficulty and that thing's forty years old. Your ships can't do that."

Click to shrink...

Multi-role ship design for the win.

And that's not even starting on the advantages the luminal drive has over the telekinetic space-warping system they use. The Earth Defence Force's cruisers will be able to dance around anything Almerac could throw at them… Once we've built them. Because unfortunately putting a luminal drive on a planet is somewhat cost-prohibitive, and right now the Almerac navy could just rush Earth. And will be able to even once the first flotilla is finished.

"True. If the alliance could have been made to work, it would have benefited both of us. But I don't believe that it could."

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Yeah, Almeracians sound a bit stupid, in a focused way. Honour Before Reason, and all that.

"No?"

"Our warrior class wouldn't have accepted an alliance between our peoples any more than they have accepted my marriage to my mistress. They would have seen the people of Earth as too weak to treat with as equals, no matter the power of your technology."

"I suppose that when all you have is a hammer…" I frown. "Wait. You're not here just to keep you safe-?"

Click to shrink...

Why do one thing when you could do two? Or four? Multi-tasking is probably easy for her.

"Of course not." She smiles pleasantly. "Maxima rules Almerac. I govern Almerac, and that includes making alliances with other spacefaring species."

"And?"

"If you're successful, your people will certainly be worth our time. But if some greater power stamps on you before you are ready, Almerac will be happy to offer the survivors sanctuary. The handful of you who are meaningfully contributing to Earth's advancement would make excellent additions to our empire. You're right; our fleet has become rather moribund. We've focused too much on breeding better warriors and not enough on paradigm shifting technology. We create breeding lines based on what we need now, not based on what we will need tomorrow."

Click to shrink...

The drawback of specialisation.

"And you're fixing that."

"I'm trying to. I'm part of the old paradigm myself." She lays a hand on her stomach. "But Maxima Junior is something new. She has traits we don't usually put in warriors. We were inspired by you, actually."

Click to shrink...

As long as she doesn't turn out big, gray and bulky...

"How so?"

"You can fight and you can plan. We've always made them separate roles, but the way you combine them makes you better at both." She looks up at the clear sky for a moment. "Oh, they're nearly here."

"Who are?"

"The actual assassins. They're coming by ship."

Click to shrink...

(Cut line about interdiction) I'm sure it won't take much effort to deal with them, if they're anything like the enthusiasts earlier...

Argh, Mr Zoat, you cruel tease, cutting away from Paragon at a time like this? At least it'll make the return to the League exercise all the sweeter...

 

[reddraggone9]

"Even with Maxima She seems reasonably together."

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"Even with Maxima? She seems reasonably together."

Her mind excels in dealing with situation which require immediate decisions

Click to shrink...

Her mind excels in dealing with situations which require immediate decisions

 

[Mr Zoat]

Why is a luminal drive on earth costly?

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Because planets are big.

Like, really big.

You might think it's a long way from your house to the supermarket, but that's peanuts compared to a planet.

I guess the interdiction fields set by Grayven don't stop the telekinetic ftl drives of the people of Amarak... And oversight, but not a complete plothole if addressed.

Click to shrink...

It has been stated at least once that the only way to stop telekinetic FTL is with a more powerful telekine, and Mr Blake still hasn't recovered from his ordeal on Citadel Complex.

"Even with Maxima? She seems reasonably together."

Her mind excels in dealing with situations which require immediate decisions

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.