With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Tyrantviewer]

The whole put down from Karmag on the Primate not stabilizing herself, acutually seems to reflect something I noticed, Karmang uses everything- Magic, telekinesis, shapeshifting, as we see here they are all used to produce a greater whole, but we see that while the Primate used some of it, she was notably slower and worse than Karmang, even as he limited himself to the same number of arms, he instead showed her up by attacking her with a hollywood voodoo type attack (L shape with his fingers, L shape break of her arms) to show not only how his Magical skills were broader than hers, but her defenses were weak, and also reflected the flaws of the Red hierarchy as Karmang sees them.

Karmang set up the red based government by empowering those who he thought could best lead his people towards progress and the future, Instead they went nowhere, content to calcify into the social hierarchy the Guardian's encouraged and Karmang assisted, seeing his assistance and thier dominance as a right not a duty. So now we have modern Magical Martians who seem to lack in the Basics as Karmang sees them, Prefering flashy lightning, lacking in mystical defence, or the skill/fortitude to keep up in a magical fight.

I feel that Karmang hates the racism of current Mars, not only for how it hurts white martians, but because of how it hurts All martians. I can see him hating how it seems to have limited and weakened his entire people.

I also love how he wants to fix things, "Get out of the way and clean things up and then maybe you can get it right this time" He is like a grumpy less powerful and hands on God Emperor...

I am really looking forward to how this turns out

 

[Phrexia Unbound]

I also love how he wants to fix things, "Get out of the way and clean things up and then maybe you can get it right this time" He is like a grumpy less powerful and hands on God Emperor...

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The rest of this arc will probably be him stepping in to fix the Martians, because screaming at the Reds telepathically from the sidelines clearly didn't fucking work.

 

[Mr Zoat]

We can make educated guesses. For example, being a carpenter, it's likely that he was quite fit.

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The word in the Greek version was tektōn. While that's usually translated as 'carpenter', it could refer to a variety of occupations such as mason, sculptor or architect. As the eldest son, he might also have been the business manager for the family firm.

Karmang set up the red based government by empowering those who he thought could best lead his people towards progress and the future, Instead they went nowhere, content to calcify into the social hierarchy the Guardian's encouraged and Karmang assisted, seeing his assistance and their dominance as a right not a duty.

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To be fair to them, that wasn't why the Guardians did it. If anything, they would have put White Martians in charge because they were the least likely to revert.

 

[Handlewithcare]

While I agree with Karmang's goals, the conduct of his Hyperclan doesn't inspire much trust in his methods.

I think, even if he succeeds, that he will than have to deal with bloodthirsty whites, using oppression as a justification for everything.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

Probably, but even assuming that the man actually existed, there aren't any good descriptions of his appearance. Assuming any racial background is guesswork.

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I believe the Romans had records of crucifying him although they probably crucified alot of would be messiah's

 

[Ph34r_n0_3V1L]

Probably, but even assuming that the man actually existed, there aren't any good descriptions of his appearance. Assuming any racial background is guesswork.

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It's accepted by historical scholars that Jesus existed and founded Christianity because of mentions in the works of Flavius Josephus and Tacitus. His physicsl appearance is never mentioned.

 

[Mr Zoat]

It's accepted by historical scholars that Jesus existed and founded Christianity because of mentions in the works of Flavius Josephus and Tacitus. His physicsl appearance is never mentioned.

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Flavius Josephus was born in 37 BC, so unless he was writing about Jesus when he was an infant, he wasn't describing events he personally witnessed.

Edit: As pointed out below, that should be AD, not BC. Also, Year 0 is when Jesus is supposed to have died, not when he was born. Really, this post was not well thought out. Still, the essential idea that he couldn't have been there at the time is relevant.

 

[Senevri]

... Even if (if!) Karmang is honest, he doesn't seem reasonable. Getting a very MoS! Zod vibe.

 

[Buggy123]

... Even if (if!) Karmang is honest, he doesn't seem reasonable. Getting a very MoS! Zod vibe.

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I don't know, he seemed pretty reasonable. He was ruthless, certainly, but he had a well thought out and achievable plan. That's more than you can say about most people in DC who want to take over a world.

 

[nick012000]

Flavius Josephus was born in 37 BC, so unless he was writing about Jesus when he was an infant, he wasn't describing events he personally witnessed.

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IIRC current scholarly opinion is that Jesus was born in 7 BC, and he died at the age of 33 (thus, 26 AD). Also, you've got the birthday of Flavius Josephus wrong: he was born in 37 AD, not 37 BC - about 10 years after Jesus died.

 

[Mr Zoat]

IIRC current scholarly opinion is that Jesus was born in 7 BC, and he died at the age of 33 (thus, 26 AD). Also, you've got the birthday of Flavius Josephus wrong: he was born in 37 AD, not 37 BC - about 10 years after Jesus died.

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Sorry, yes, that was what I meant.

 

[Khettien]

As the eldest son, he might also have been the business manager for the family firm.

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I hate to stereotype, but...damn if that doesn't sound Jewish.

 

[9adam4]

Probably, but even assuming that the man actually existed, there aren't any good descriptions of his appearance. Assuming any racial background is guesswork.

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Hardly. As with Alexander or Cleopatra, the lineage of Jesus is well-known, being an important component of the claims made about him. It's not "guesswork" to say what race an emperor of the Qin dynasty would be, nor a Davidic Jew.

But regardless of the truth of it, if you acknowledge that most Christian churches have no issue with Jesus being olive-skinned, than the parallel with the reds insisting Karmang must be red is specious, yes?

 

[CTrees]

Do we know what's happening with Karmang on the Paragon side? Because Lantern Mother of Mercy fixing the planet sure could make for an interesting interaction. I don't remember if the Paragon Hyperclan stuff would have interrupted this or not...

 

[Mr Zoat]

But regardless of the truth of it, if you acknowledge that most Christian churches have no issue with Jesus being olive-skinned

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To the best of my knowledge, yes. I'm not exactly a regular churchgoer.

than the parallel with the reds insisting Karmang must be red is specious, yes?

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The point was to show that religious figures can get portrayed in a wide variety of ways throughout the history of a religion when what they actually look like isn't known. Karmang is depicted in more or less the same way across modern Mars, but that isn't how he looks.

Do we know what's happening with Karmang on the Paragon side? Because Lantern Mother of Mercy fixing the planet sure could make for an interesting interaction. I don't remember if the Paragon Hyperclan stuff would have interrupted this or not...

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SI side the true history of Mars is known only to M'gann, J'onn and a very small number of Reds, and there isn't a fix for the Guardian programming.

 

[Tzeentch]

Surprisingly competent for a dude that had the aliases "the good" and "the evil".

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He hasn't yet acquired the latter.

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Given that Karmang has proclaimed his intention to "Reclaim what he GAVE them" and that that it's quite possible for a skilled enough practitioner to destroy, or perhaps even steal the knowledge and powers of other magi, I think I can make one or two guesses as to where the more unpleasant epithet will come from...

 

[9adam4]

The point was to show that religious figures can get portrayed in a wide variety of ways throughout the history of a religion when what they actually look like isn't known.

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Makes perfect sense, thank you. I read more into it than you intended.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Given that Karmang has proclaimed his intention to "Reclaim what he GAVE them" and that that it's quite possible for a skilled enough practitioner to destroy, or perhaps even steal the knowledge and powers of other magi, I think I can make one or two guesses as to where the more unpleasant epithet will come from...

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He was referring to their authority and their sense of supremacy. He isn't actually all that good at telepathy compared to some. Oh, he'll take any kuru pendants they've got lying around, but he wouldn't go through the bother of soul stealing every single one.

Makes perfect sense, thank you. I read more into it than you intended.

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Not a problem. I certainly don't think that Christians are racist for assuming that Jesus probably looked like an average man from the era and place than he supposedly came from.

And it occurs to me that if -like Karmang- he turned up outside a monastery somewhere and was actually black or Asian, his most likely response to someone kicking off about it would be to gently chide them for thinking that it mattered.

 

[9adam4]

I have a copy of the issue of Asimov's in which the Christ returns in the form of a female alien resembling a praying mantis. Remarkable story.

 

[Tzeentch]

"I'm-. You are powerful. But you are not Karmang."

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This sort of denial isn't going to be constant, is it? I mean, I can understand the stubbornness of holding on to the belief systems and reality tunnels you were raised and conditioned to adhere to, but as Magicians are supposed to be seekers of Truth, they can't keep their heads in the Red Sand forever.

I mean, sooner or later ,overtime it's GOT to register with the Reds and Greens that the founder of their mystic paradigm is not only back, kicking the protean asses of every major practitioner Mars has, he's white.

 

[Mr Zoat]

This sort of denial isn't going to be constant, is it? I mean, I can understand the stubbornness of holding on to the belief systems and reality tunnels you were raised and conditioned to adhere to, but as Magicians are supposed to be seekers of Truth, they can't keep their heads in the Red Sand forever.

I mean, sooner or later ,overtime it's GOT to register with the Reds and Greens that the founder of their mystic paradigm is not only back, kicking the protean asses of every major practitioner Mars has, he's white.

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Oh, clearly there's a surprisingly powerful sorcerer out there who is White, and apparently he calls himself Karmang and the Hyperclan appear to be taking his orders, but the idea that he's that Karmang is too out there to be accepted.

 

[9adam4]

I daresay a large portion of Christians even today would never accept that a black man was actually Jesus, not matter what miracles he performed.

 

[Tzeentch]

Oh, clearly there's a surprisingly powerful sorcerer out there who is White, and apparently he calls himself Karmang and the Hyperclan appear to be taking his orders, but the idea that he's that Karmang is too out there to be accepted.

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I get THAT, but how long can such stubbornness hold out?

Eventually a Red Martian Magi is likely either going to perform a necromantic rite in an attempt to conjure the shade of "Karmang The Good" to deal with the heretic, or invoke one of the Martian Gods for answers, only for said answers to be what they DEFINITELY did not want to hear.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I get THAT, but how long can such stubbornness hold out?

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You'd be amazed.

Eventually a Red Martian Magi is likely either going to perform a necromantic rite in an attempt to conjure the shade of "Karmang The Good" to deal with the heretic, or invoke one of the Martian Gods for answers, only for said answers to be what they DEFINITELY did not want to hear.

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If they actually summoned a Martian God they'd have bigger things to worry about. The Burning left something of a mark.

Oh, and when Grayven finds out about this, he's going to piss himself laughing.

 

[Ph34r_n0_3V1L]

Flavius Josephus was born in 37 BC, so unless he was writing about Jesus when he was an infant, he wasn't describing events he personally witnessed.

Edit: As pointed out below, that should be AD, not BC. Also, Year 0 is when Jesus is supposed to have died, not when he was born. Really, this post was not well thought out. Still, the essential idea that he couldn't have been there at the time is relevant.

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The universally accepted reference that Josephus makes is to the death by stoning of "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James" (aka James the Just) in ~62 AD. A major Romano-Jewish historian who was a friend and advisor of the Roman Emperor isn't going to use that description unless Jesus was real.

 

[Senevri]

I don't know, he seemed pretty reasonable. He was ruthless, certainly, but he had a well thought out and achievable plan. That's more than you can say about most people in DC who want to take over a world.

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He may seem reasonable when things are going his way. I'm waiting to see how he will react to suggestions like, maybe not disassemble the entire planetgov.
What you're seeing here is affable. Rational. A T-800 can be those things, but try to suggest maybe not terminating it's target... ?

 

[Tzeentch]

If they actually summoned a Martian God they'd have bigger things to worry about. The Burning left something of a mark.

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Even "L'Zoril", known more commonly as Dream of The Endless?

Oh, and when Grayven finds out about this, he's going to piss himself laughing.

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Rather looking forward to either Paul or Grayven meeting Forager, to be honest.

...Speaking of the New Gods, given the differences from YJ canon, (Big Barda and Scott Free living on Earth, Granny Goodness possibly not running a media empire, etc), I wonder if Paul is somehow responsible for a good majority of them, due to him being the rogue, chaotic element.

Time Travel IS a thing after all, and shenanigans, intentional or unintentional besides, are to be expected!

 

[Mr Zoat]

Even "L'Zoril", known more commonly as Dream of The Endless?

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No, I'm not including the Endless in the list of Martian Gods, even though some of them are acknowledged as gods on Mars.

Rather looking forward to either Paul or Grayven meeting Forager, to be honest.

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Whether you're talking about the one from the series or the one from the comics, that probably won't happen.

...Speaking of the New Gods, given the differences from YJ canon, (Big Barda and Scott Free living on Earth, Granny Goodness possibly not running a media empire, etc), I wonder if Paul is somehow responsible for a good majority of them, due to him being the rogue, chaotic element.

Time Travel IS a thing after all, and shenanigans, intentional or unintentional besides, are to be expected!

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No, I'm going pure Doylist on that one.

 

[Queshire]

No, I'm going pure Doylist on that one.

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Clearly that calls for recursive fanfiction then.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Clearly that calls for recursive fanfiction then.

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Go right ahead.