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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Reader mode
Mr Zoat said:
She takes a moment to check herself over, her eyes hesitating on her left arm for a moment before dropping to her legs.

"What happened to my shorts?"

"Your clothing was somewhat damaged. If you don't like it I can get you something else?"
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She's taking things remarkably well so far...

"No, this is… Fine."

"Look, if it's bothering you, I have full physiological scans of all of my allies and I've stuck bits of them back together on several occasions. Humanoid nudity-."

"Oh, you're a doctor?"
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Eh, it's a matter of perspective, really. He's not certified officially, anyway.

"No, I'm an unusually well-equipped medic. If I were a doctor I'd actually know medicine rather than having my ring's database feed me everything. But there aren't that many medically qualified superheroes so I've been subbing in."

She nods. "Okay. Can I stand?"
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The term 'superheroes' is probably quite telling to her.

"As far as I can tell, you should be able to. Your solar batteries probably aren't fully charged, but your muscles, bones and nerves appear to be working properly. Though if you feel unsteady, sit back down and I'll take another look."

"No, I meant, am I allowed to stand?" We look at each other for a moment. "Am I your prisoner?"
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Ah, you meant "May I stand?" Easy mistake to make, so many native english speakers make it...

"No-." Which isn't completely honest. "It's really more that we don't know anything about you and so we're being a little.. careful. You're free to stand and move around the facility, but if you want to go anywhere else I'll be tagging along."

"Ah." She stands, testing her legs' ability to hold her weight. "I appear to be in good health."

I smile. "I'm glad to hear-."
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I'm sure she understands such restrictions...

"I am a National Socialist, from an Earth where Germany won the-. I don't know what you would call it. The Second Great War?"

"Second World War. And.. yes, I knew, but I'm a little surprised that you're being so up front about it."
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Wow, just up and says it outright. Evidently she's had some training concerning interdimensional travel...

"Ah." She touches her upper left arm with her right hand. "Did you remove my armband?"

"No, it was burned to ash, but… I don't think that replacing it would be a good idea."

"No, it would not. My-. Do you have an Overman here? A male kryptonian sent to Earth as a baby?"
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Some things change, others stay the same...

"Superman. He-."

She lets out a bark of startled laughter. "You call him that?"

"Not that many people read Nietzsche, and the crest of the House of El looks a lot like a 'S'."
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Heh, she would almost certainly be familiar with the implications of the name. Nietzsche was practically required reading in senior German officer circles...

She nods. "Overman warned me that of all of the parallel universes he had seen, Germany under the National Socialists were only victorious in the.. Second World War, upon ours. He advised me that I should not conceal this part of our history."

"That's.. jolly decent of him." Ah… "Sorry, you've rather wrong-footed me there. I was expecting to have to work up to that."
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He's completely off his mental script of how this was intended to go, isn't he?:p

"Did his pod land in the British Empire in this parallel?"

"No." Sadly. "No. The British Empire sort of… Deflated in the decades following the end of World War Two. All that's left of it is a lot of tiny places that either couldn't function on their own or don't want to."
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Oh, god, Super-Brit. One part of the Elseworlds that's best left forgotten...

"The technologies gained from Overman's pod should have given any nation the strength to take the world. If it was not Britain or Germany, where did he land?"

"I'm sorry, your Overman landed in Germany before World War Two?"

"Yes, in the Sudetenland in nineteen thirty eight."
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Yup, the classic 'Nazis get super-science, conquer the world' alternate timeline twist.

"Our Kal-El arrived on Earth in nineteen seventy eight. The Second World War played out based on the strength and skills of the nations involved, with no-" I perform a brief mental review the membership of the All-Star Squadron. "-alien involvement."

"So who rules the world now?"
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That... Is a remarkably complicated question...

"Um. I.. suppose that the simple answer would be that.. no one does. The United States of America is the most powerful country according to most metrics. Second is probably the People's Republic of-"

The corners of her mouth turn down in distaste before she masters her expression.
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I see she has opinions on the Communist states.

"-China. Then it sort of depends on whether you count the European Union as one country or not."

Her eyes widen.

"Europe is unified? If.. it was not due to warfare, did it happen peacefully?"
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It's more economical than political...

"Sort of. The Second World War weakened the European powers to the point that they couldn't maintain their empires, but it also left them sharing a border with the Soviet Union." She.. sort of clenches, her hands balling into fists again. "That was a powerful incentive to cooperate, both economically and militarily."

Her eyes are glowing again. Faintly this time, but I don't think it's intentional.

"The Soviet Union. Does it still exist?"
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Yes, definitely has opinions...

"No. It broke up about twenty years ago, and the Russian Federation is a nationalist nominal-democracy. It turns out that communism doesn't actually work." I frown. "So, are you Overman's daughter? I know that you're a human-kryptonian hybrid-."

"No, I was born a human girl. My kryptonian traits were added by a retrovirus to incorporate parts of Overman's DNA."
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And it's as nasty a process as it sounds...

I scream internally, while maintaining a polite smile. Cadmus considered that, but decided against it because that sort of retrovirus is really unreliable. I remember reading about an incident back on Earth Prime where it was used to cure a genetic condition perfectly successfully, but also gave the patient another one that was just as bad and the doctors performing the procedure didn't know why.

She notices my disquiet.
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Wow, it showed on his face even with his ring? That's some serious NOPE.

"Yes. I was… Fortunate."

For a moment I consider asking how many were less lucky. She's blonde, blue eyed-. They couldn't have risked a 'subhuman' getting that power, even a baby would have been a risk. But knowing that wouldn't help the situation, and I don't want anyone with Cadmus-like inclinations learning that the technique could work as desired.
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One slight miscalculation and you have a killer pseudo-Kryptonian virus that is immune to everything but Kryptonite...

"How old were you? Did you-? Volunteer?"

"I was eleven. And I did. Along with all of the others. Even I am not a complete success." I don't say anything. "You asked if I was his daughter. Does your Superman have children? With a human woman?"
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Ugh, I shudder at the thought of the failures... Especially if any survived the initial process.

"Not a human woman, no."

She blinks.

"I beg your pardon?"
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Frame it as Mad Science! and she might not be totally disgusted... Or just say 'Luthor' and watch her go "Ah, yes, say no more."

So far so polite. From the sound of it, Overman has had previous encounters with the Multiverse, and prepared protocols for any eventuality... I hope she doesn't suffer too much culture shock. And there's still the question of why she flew out of a Bleed portal, on fire...
 
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She's certainly a believer in some of the stuff with how quickly red showed up when the Soviets got mentioned. Overgirl and Overman can regret the genocides and still think National Socialism is pretty great.

I'd say she might be a "deport them all" Nazi who thought the Madagascar Plan was neato, though I guess that's a little harder when you decide to conquer the world. Which they didn't even want to do, but I guess between this and Wolfenstein finding super advanced tech just ratchets up your ambitions something fierce.

==

Oh, and the only other person that retrovirus didn't kill became Earth 10's version of Bizarro.

They called him the Antihuman.

Get the feeling they probably killed him, and the Luthor League. I seriously doubt Nazi superheroes fuck around with that non-lethal shit or the revolving door prisons unless they're planning to torture information out of you.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Oh fuck you and all. We'd've become a republic if it weren't for the royalist party offering us a bad choice 20 years ago, and nothing else since.
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Who's the lucky dominion?

Also, the royalist party hasn't offered you a bad choice. You're a democracy. If enough people felt strongly enough then someone else would be elected.
 
Mr Zoat said:
Who's the lucky dominion?

Also, the royalist party hasn't offered you a bad choice. You're a democracy. If enough people felt strongly enough then someone else would be elected.
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In order to get that option we need a referrendum, which are extremely expensive, and the party in power gets to offer the bad choices. Australians want to be a democracy, but we're also deeply stupid and our major parties keep telling the fib that if we became a republic we couldn't go to the Commonwealth Games and kick everyone's arse.

Everyone's.
 
Is Overgirls timeline in the 2010s like the main universe or is it in the sixties/seventies period?
Overman in the comics looked like he was still in his prime while, though it could be that kryptonians from earth 10 age slower than their earth 16 counterparts, like red son Superman managed to live for several eons
 
Yog said:
Please tell me that Hitler's clone is going to feature in this episode.
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Of course he is.
Darko said:
Is Overgirls timeline in the 2010s like the main universe or is it in the sixties/seventies period?
Overman in the comics looked like he was still in his prime while, though it could be that kryptonians from earth 10 age slower than their earth 16 counterparts, like red son Superman managed to live for several eons
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It's the same as the Universe 16 year.
 
Darko said:
Is Overgirls timeline in the 2010s like the main universe or is it in the sixties/seventies period?
Overman in the comics looked like he was still in his prime while, though it could be that kryptonians from earth 10 age slower than their earth 16 counterparts, like red son Superman managed to live for several eons
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It has never been shown how kryptonians age on Earth-16, Clark is only 40 as of season 3.

Kryptonian lifespans have varied in the stories from "Clark is having a heart attack because he's aging like everyone else" to "Superman waves goodbye to the dying universe as he flies off to his next adventure."

However, it seems you forgot Zoat adding the boring as hell version of Superwoman Karsta Wor-Uhl, and she's several generations older than Superman. Although in the comics she also had multiple "black market longevity treatments," so she's not really the best indication of kryptonian longevity.
 
Stsword said:
However, it seems you forgot Zoat adding the boring as hell version of Superwoman Karsta Wor-Uhl, and she's several generations older than Superman. Although in the comics she also had multiple "black market longevity treatments," so she's not really the best indication of kryptonian longevity.
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She ain't boring on the renegade tl(tbf everything is awesome in the renegade tl). Also her pounding supes into mush before flouncing off is hilarious.

I can just picture Diana's sadface on missing out on a second sparring partner in the league.
 
Earth 10 is in the modern day. A world where the Nazis have ruled the world for a decent chunk of time. And is supposed to be utopic for almost everyone living on it. But it's a utopia built on the near total genocide of basically everyone the Nazis didn't like.

Overman feels a lot of guilt and regret over how the utopia was created.

"Sure, the world is practically paradise now. But did we have to kill so many people to make it?"

For reference, this is basically a minority opinion that most people on Earth 10 would think is a weird question to ask. Unless the New 52 comics changed things. But, well, fuck the New 52.

Get the feeling Overman's ideal would be to try to establish some kind of non-racist variant of National Socialism. (If you could even call it Nazism anymore.)

Oh, and Overman is in his 80s and still looks like he's in his 30s.
 
Karsta may have beaten Kal-El so easily because he wasn't expecting her to be so hostile.
If he tried to fight her i am pretty sure that he would have won if he realy tried. She is older than him while he is in his prime and he also has at least a decade of experience in fighting super strong people while she probably only has her non powered kryptonian training in fighting.

Also Overman in the new 52 was pretty outspoken against the genocide thing, but still served the state.His history was basically the same as pre n52. But there were some things that were either changed or never mentioned when he originally appeared. Like him being in a dying marriage to a redhead named Lena;).
Also Addie Hitler, the politician who leered at Overgirl, was first introduced in the multiversity issue with the mastermen as Overmans adopted nephew.

Hey Zoat, how many more episodes are there going to be before we get to April First in universe?
Is it going to be after the episodes with the renegade in Equestria?
 
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ForeverShogo said:
Earth 10 is in the modern day. A world where the Nazis have ruled the world for a decent chunk of time. And is supposed to be utopic for almost everyone living on it. But it's a utopia built on the near total genocide of basically everyone the Nazis didn't like.

Overman feels a lot of guilt and regret over how the utopia was created.

"Sure, the world is practically paradise now. But did we have to kill so many people to make it?"

For reference, this is basically a minority opinion that most people on Earth 10 would think is a weird question to ask. Unless the New 52 comics changed things. But, well, fuck the New 52.

Get the feeling Overman's ideal would be to try to establish some kind of non-racist variant of National Socialism. (If you could even call it Nazism anymore.)

Oh, and Overman is in his 80s and still looks like he's in his 30s.
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Part of the reason Nazism works is the racism - you either have high self esteem and are unlikely to commit crimes or the government marks you an undesirable and likely gets rid of you. They also wouldn't have the problems with overpopulation the modern world does - due to exterminating large swathes of the population - which would solve a whole bunch of problems at once.
 
Mr Zoat said:
"No. It broke up about twenty years ago, and the Russian Federation is a nationalist nominal-democracy. It turns out that communism doesn't actually work."
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Icon/Arnus comes from a communist society, and I believe there are other examples in DC. So this should be

"Turns out humans can't make communism work".

Because it goes too much against our tribal nature, humans can only make it work in the small scale, once you start to go big the inefficiencies caused by humans pile up too much.
 
Chaoswind has a point.
I remember that one comic where Kilowog visits the Soviet Union, but is dissapointed by it. His species have an easier time with communism because of their telepathic connection.
Also i'm pretty sure that even if communism could work on large scales then having Stalin be in charge would be a VERY bad idea. The man was more akin to a childish bully rather than a leader and he actually fell out of favor with Lenin later in his life, only becoming leader of the Union through some pretty dubious means.
 
Razorfloss said:
Lmfao explaining that is going to be fun
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I think it'd be pretty straight forward. "One of his enemies managed to steal some genetic samples, and then grew clones that were hybrids of Superman and himself. Our Superman wasn't a very good father once he found out about it, though I think he'd have done things differently if he had the opportunity to."
 
I'll note that the sheer anger towards the Soviets wouldn't necessarily have to be entirely related to a hatred of communism--note that Overgirl showed only distaste towards the previous mention of communism, while anger only appeared when the Soviets were mentioned. While communism's economics are antithetical to those of fascism, there were two other reasons why she might hate them.

First off, Nazi ideology portrayed all Slavic peoples as untermenschen, inferiors suitable only to be exploited and/or destroyed, with the Russian ethnicity being particularly inferior. (Witness how much more brutally Soviet prisoners were treated by the German military than Western prisoners were--French, British, American, Dutch, Canadian... they were seen as being at least Aryan-adjacent and thus could possibly be "corrected" into being proper Aryans, whereas Poles, Czechs, Russians... they were inferior and fit only for slave labor.) Hitler's non-aggression pact with the Soviets in the late 30s, which included a chance to examine Soviet tank technology and use Soviet tank testing facilities, was more of an example of realpolitik than anything else; while it could be justified under the ideology as choosing to exploit the untermenschen by bargaining with them and giving them something of little actual value in exchange for things of great value to Germany, it was really more a case of choosing the lesser evil (temporary appeasement of a group of untermenschen who nonetheless had the military power to be a serious threat and could open a second front when war finally broke out) over having to square off with the Red Army before the Wehrmacht was really ready to do so. (If you don't think this is true, consider that while Hitler had no love lost for the US, he also stated in his own writings that he felt that the time for a reckoning with the Americans was not ripe, and probably would not come until the 1980s--he was perfectly comfortable with attempting to appease and/or otherwise coexist with the United States until Germany was truly prepared to take America on, despite the US's openly condoning--read "not actively attempting to exterminate"--its own population of untermenschen.)

However, what might well be the bigger cause is just how hard the Soviets fought in the "Great Patriotic War." Between longstanding animosity towards Germany (Russia and Prussia had frequently used Poland as a place to settle their differences in the past), Stalin's "not one step back" order as the Eastern Front approached Moscow and Stalingrad (which included orders that machine gunners were to shoot any Soviet troops that attempted to retreat!), general nationalistic pride (note the name that the Soviets assigned the war and is still the common name for it in Russia today), and reports of how brutally the Germans were treating Slavic prisoners in general and Soviet prisoners in particular, the Red Army fought like a honeybadger. The vast bulk of German casualties during WW2 came on the Eastern Front; there's a reason that the Soviets were able to turn the tide and pretty much push the German forces back to the point that they'd essentially won the land war by themselves, despite suffering over 20 million dead in the war. That sort of thing, combined with the fact that the Soviets weren't exactly treating German prisoners in anything approaching a humane manner, and the existing Nazi prejudice against Russians, and the inherent antipathy of the governmental and economic systems involved, is the sort of thing that can generate intense cultural hatred for several generations. We're talking the sort of hatred that results in things like the term "Philistine"...

Side note: Hitler personally abhorred homosexuality, to the point of including non-heterosexuals in the extermination orders; one entire wing of the Nazi party that had been key to his rise to power, the SA, was violently purged and slaughtered well before the outbreak of war, in what was known as the "Night of the Long Knives," largely because Hitler had found out that its head was gay and had put a number of his partners into the upper echelons of its organization (and, reputedly, was basically turning the organization into one big gay men's club). That said, even after this, there were a large number of closeted homosexuals in fairly high positions of power in the Nazi party; it's entirely plausible that, in an alternate timeline, they might well have been able to use their positions, after Hitler's death, to influence a shift in attitudes towards greater gay rights. (Note that, for example, if you look at the surviving pornography of the 1920s, you'll find that most of it would qualify as "bisexual porn" today, including both male and female homosexual acts along with the heterosexual ones, in the same scenes; one little-remarked aspect of the Roaring 20s was that in much of the world, both male and female bisexuality was considered normal, if not generally discussed openly, and it was only the rise of firebrand radio preachers during the Great Depression that saw homosexuality get the stigmatization it suffered for the rest of the century; if you were in a position of power in the Nazi party after Hitler dies of natural causes, you can start influencing people to see such firebrand preachers as untermenschen, likely with the support of Himmler, who wanted to see Christianity replaced with his own new religion based on the ancient Norse pantheon.) While I doubt it would have resulted in LGBT rights being more advanced than they are today, it might have brought "don't ask, don't tell" levels of tolerance much more quickly than the combination of activism with the porn industry's normalization of female bisexuality were able to accomplish.
 
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Darko said:
Karsta may have beaten Kal-El so easily because he wasn't expecting her to be so hostile.

If he tried to fight her i am pretty sure that he would have won if he realy tried. She is older than him while he is in his prime and he also has at least a decade of experience in fighting super strong people while she probably only has her non powered kryptonian training in fighting.
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No, she'd still have kicked his arse.

Superman 16 isn't very good at fighting. Since joining the League and having access to a trainer in his weight class (Diana) he's gotten okay, but for the most part relies on raw power. Not because he's lazy (he isn't), but because it's really hard for him to train at high intensity. Against someone like Karsta (who is a little weaker but has far more experience) he'd lose.
Also Addie Hitler, the politician who leered at Overgirl, was first introduced in the multiversity issue with the mastermen as Overmans adopted nephew.
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Again, I want a source on the 'adopted by Hitler' claim because I read the comic a few days ago and didn't see it stated.
Hey Zoat, how many more episodes are there going to be before we get to April First in universe?

Is it going to be after the episodes with the renegade in Equestria?
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If you look at the first page of this thread you'll see this episode listed as 92 and Equestrian Girls listed as 94.
Chaoswind said:
Icon/Arnus comes from a communist society, and I believe there are other examples in DC. So this should be

"Turns out humans can't make communism work".

Because it goes too much against our tribal nature, humans can only make it work in the small scale, once you start to go big the inefficiencies caused by humans pile up too much.
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Is it, or is it just post-scarcity?
Darko said:
Chaoswind has a point.
I remember that one comic where Kilowog visits the Soviet Union, but is dissapointed by it. His species have an easier time with communism because of their telepathic connection.
Also i'm pretty sure that even if communism could work on large scales then having Stalin be in charge would be a VERY bad idea. The man was more akin to a childish bully rather than a leader and he actually fell out of favor with Lenin later in his life, only becoming leader of the Union through some pretty dubious means.
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Yeeeeah, but the other man in the picture was Trotsky, who wanted to bring about global revolution by warfare as soon as possible. Stalin sucked for the Soviet Union but Trotsky would have sucked for the entire world.
rdfox said:
First off, Nazi ideology portrayed all Slavic peoples as untermenschen, inferiors suitable only to be exploited and/or destroyed, with the Russian ethnicity being particularly inferior. (Witness how much more brutally Soviet prisoners were treated by the German military than Western prisoners were--French, British, American, Dutch, Canadian... they were seen as being at least Aryan-adjacent and thus could possibly be "corrected" into being proper Aryans, whereas Poles, Czechs, Russians... they were inferior and fit only for slave labor.) Hitler's non-aggression pact with the Soviets in the late 30s, which included a chance to examine Soviet tank technology and use Soviet tank testing facilities, was more of an example of realpolitik than anything else; while it could be justified under the ideology as choosing to exploit the untermenschen by bargaining with them and giving them something of little actual value in exchange for things of great value to Germany, it was really more a case of choosing the lesser evil (temporary appeasement of a group of untermenschen who nonetheless had the military power to be a serious threat and could open a second front when war finally broke out) over having to square off with the Red Army before the Wehrmacht was really ready to do so. (If you don't think this is true, consider that while Hitler had no love lost for the US, he also stated in his own writings that he felt that the time for a reckoning with the Americans was not ripe, and probably would not come until the 1980s--he was perfectly comfortable with attempting to appease and/or otherwise coexist with the United States until Germany was truly prepared to take America on, despite the US's openly condoning--read "not actively attempting to exterminate"--its own population of untermenschen.)
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It still seems odd to me that Hearts of Iron has no option for doing the Bulwark Against Communism focus as Hitler. Now that they've brought in alternate history options, making a deal with Britain and France and then just attacking eastward sounds like a plausible route to go.
Side note: Hitler personally abhorred homosexuality, to the point of including non-heterosexuals in the extermination orders; one entire wing of the Nazi party that had been key to his rise to power, the SA, was violently purged and slaughtered well before the outbreak of war, in what was known as the "Night of the Long Knives," largely because Hitler had found out that its head was gay and had put a number of his partners into the upper echelons of its organization (and, reputedly, was basically turning the organization into one big gay men's club). That said, even after this, there were a large number of closeted homosexuals in fairly high positions of power in the Nazi party; it's entirely plausible that, in an alternate timeline, they might well have been able to use their positions, after Hitler's death, to influence a shift in attitudes towards greater gay rights. (Note that, for example, if you look at the surviving pornography of the 1920s, you'll find that most of it would qualify as "bisexual porn" today, including both male and female homosexual acts along with the heterosexual ones, in the same scenes; one little-remarked aspect of the Roaring 20s was that in much of the world, both male and female bisexuality was considered normal, if not generally discussed openly, and it was only the rise of firebrand radio preachers during the Great Depression that saw homosexuality get the stigmatization it suffered for the rest of the century; if you were in a position of power in the Nazi party after Hitler dies of natural causes, you can start influencing people to see such firebrand preachers as untermenschen, likely with the support of Himmler, who wanted to see Christianity replaced with his own new religion based on the ancient Norse pantheon.) While I doubt it would have resulted in LGBT rights being more advanced than they are today, it might have brought "don't ask, don't tell" levels of tolerance much more quickly than the combination of activism with the porn industry's normalization of female bisexuality were able to accomplish.
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You may assume that did not happen. There probably are homosexuals around but they're keeping bloody quiet about it. The furthest that sort of thing went was that they relaxed some of the ethnic purity requirements for people of 'good standing'; you wouldn't be sent to the camps for one great grandparent from a subhuman group.
 
I only saw that Overman was adopted by Adolf Hitler on his DC wiki page. This would make him Addies adopted uncle.
Though this was only in post flash point, in either the freedom fighters issues of the multiversity, he may not have been adopted by Hitler pre flashpoint.
Will we see earth 10 Jimmy Olsen?
It would be interesting if earth 16 Jimmy found out about his traitorous nazi counterpart.
Will the paragon meet Uncle Sam, I know that he saw him when Red Tornado became a citizen but will he speak to him?
Will OL meet the Freedom Fighters on earth 10?
Also as to my April Fools question, I was wondering how many more episodes are we going to have before April first in your stories universe?
 
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