With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Baladar]

Mr Zoat

So in a couple weeks you're doing an entire arc for Grayven going to Equestria?

If so, I think I'm more stoked for this arc than I was for the multi year build up for the plot to finally killing the lich a while back.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Mr Zoat

So in a couple weeks you're doing an entire arc for Grayven going to Equestria?

If so, I think I'm more stoked for this arc than I was for the multi year build up for the plot to finally killing the lich a while back.

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Arc? Sort of? Technically, that's been going on since last April Fools when he first met Sunset Shimmer. This will be the resolution of that.

 

[Darko]

Did Sunset not appear in the paragon side because of Ambush Bug and his suit?

 

[ForeverShogo]

Sunset did appear in the Paragon world, but without any kind of identifying information she couldn't just seamlessly insert herself into Earth society the way you apparently can in the world of Equestria Girls.

She was homeless for a time. Then she died on the streets, cold and hungry, when winter came.

 

[Darko]

I'm pretty sure that she didn't appear in the paragon side, but if she did I can see what you described happening.
No knowledge of the local society, unable to use her magic etc. and she could die.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Did Sunset not appear in the paragon side because of Ambush Bug and his suit?

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N-.

Sunset did appear in the Paragon world, but without any kind of identifying information she couldn't just seamlessly insert herself into Earth society the way you apparently can in the world of Equestria Girls.

She was homeless for a time. Then she died on the streets, cold and hungry, when winter came.

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No. The bug redirected a single instance of Starswirl's mirror to the Renegade's Earth.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

Did Sunset not appear in the paragon side because of Ambush Bug and his suit?

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IIRC, there was an update where the paragon and his version of the team were checking out an energy signature like the one that led to the renagade meeting Sunset. The main difference was that the renagade's New God tech let him pick it up sooner, so he was standing around waiting when the portal spat Sunset out, while on the paragon side they didn't get there until a while after, and essentially poked around for a bit without finding much, before filing the experience away under "Well, that was a bit odd."

 

[Mr Zoat]

IIRC, there was an update where the paragon and his version of the team were checking out an energy signature like the one that led to the renagade meeting Sunset. The main difference was that the renagade's New God tech let him pick it up sooner, so he was standing around waiting when the portal spat Sunset out, while on the paragon side they didn't get there until a while after, and essentially poked around for a bit without finding much, before filing the experience away under "Well, that was a bit odd."

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Was there? I don't remember that.

 

[Chaoswind]

Was there? I don't remember that.

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Me neither, the only thing I remember like that was the few updates the team went to check for star conquerors and weak magic emissions... But that was related to the starfish not the ponies.

 

[Mquz]

Earth doesn't have those. And if you mean the Equestria Girls version of the mane six, is quite evident this portal doesn't lead there.

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But what if they fell through the portal / got sent out of universe to Gravenverse by Discord?

 

[thebishop8]

N-.

No. The bug redirected a single instance of Starswirl's mirror to the Renegade's Earth.

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Does the next episode being called 'Equestrian Girls' imply that Grayven and Friends are visiting the Equestrian Girl world first?


Also if the Renegade's earth and the Equestrian Girls world are two different places, then why were the siren's magic pendants on the Renegade's Earth?

Unlike most people, I actually back up what I claim. Here's a quote for you:

"What… Ah… What artefacts are those?"

"A group of three necklaces with red beryl pendants dated as coming from the tenth century. They don't." I am authoritative.

"Are they older?"

"Almost certainly, but that's not the problem. Earlier this year a magic portal from a parallel universe opened briefly in Philadelphia, and a single individual from the other side came through. She's been working for me since, and…" Urgh. "I'm embarrassed about it now, but it only just occurred to us to look for people or artefacts which might have come through the portal previously." This is an immediate concern.

"And that is what we have?"

"So she tells me. All I can feel myself is that they are enchanted in some way, but she spent some time reading up on powerful arcane artefacts before she came through, and they match the description of a group of gems used by a trio of kelpies one of their historical heroes fought and 'banished'."

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[Mr Zoat]

Does the next episode being called 'Equestrian Girls' imply that Grayven and Friends are visiting the Equestrian Girl world first?

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No.

Also if the Renegade's earth and the Equestrian Girls world are two different places, then why were the siren's magic pendants on the Renegade's Earth?

Unlike most people, I actually back up what I claim. Here's a quote for you:

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Because it was retroactive.

 

[Nervaqus987]

So Paul is dealing with a Nazi and Grayven about to get involved with a bunch of ponies, so are the other alternative Pauls/OLs dealing with the rest of the 4chan boards? I feel really sorry for whoever get stuck with /d/

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Eh, Sybarite will be just fine.

 

[earlyriser]

I wonder if Time Trapper will take Sybarite too?

 

[Ganurath]

I wonder if Time Trapper will take Sybarite too?

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Oh, my.

In all seriousness, that would fit with the established pattern thus far.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

It is a shame that the 'controversial and divisive' content is being a decent person to those with core beliefs you think are fundamentally wrong and harmful, and condemning the belief in an earnest and critical but non-hostile and non-aggressive manner.

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I'm continueally baffled at how many of you people have tried to present her beliefs as something like "I like pineapple on pizza". A culinary sin to be sure, but, you know, not a NAZI.

I think it's fundamentally wrong and harmful? I THINK?! At least six million people murdered under the made up bullshit beliefs of a fucking madman, people of both my ancestory and sexuality, family I will never know because they didn't make it out, and you try to frame it as if there is just some minor fracture in thought that can be debated? Just a little "Oops, philosophical argument."

Disgusting. I'm not sure if the rules allow me to say what I'm thinking. Rest assured, it is NOT complimentary.

Earlier, someone tagged me and gave a little speech about morality and ethics (I can't remember the name, and I"m too annoyed to look at the moment), and all I could think of was someone giving that speech, as the camera pans back to show them being loaded up on the train. Too concerned with being "Moral" and "Ethical" to fight back until it was too fucking late.

Seriously, the comments you have been making here have been filled with so much vitriolic spite and bile, the more I hear it, the more I cringe internally and instinctively feel sorry for the person you are spewing the hate at as a victim. Because of how unthinkingly self righteous and dogmatic you come off.

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You know, I've heard people say that they really felt sorry for how Jeffery Dahmer died. The brutality of his own murder.

Me? I feel really sorry for the naked teenager who was found wandering in a daze. The one who begged and pleaded with the police not to take him back to Dahmer. I feel nothing but murderous rage for the two pigs who laughed and made jokes about a "Lovers spat" between the underage boy and the serial killer, as said killer was torturing and murdering the poor boy.

But weep for the monsters if you must.

After all, she hasn't had a choice. Why...She's just been following orders.

The comments that have been made on here about the poor, innocent little 40 year old Nazi have done nothing but make me sick.

So... Thanks for making be subconsciously side with the Nazi in the scenario. I really appreciate so fucking much.

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You're welcome. I'm glad I could help you face a flaw. Perhaps I could suggest a viewing of "Animal cops" to help recalibrate your Madometer.

I've actually thought about my reply on this all day, and I'm leaving a lot of what I wanted to say out. As the moment has come, I'm simply too fucking disgusted to put in the effort.

 

[RagnarokAscendant]

I don't know if that has been seen before. We know he can see emotions, and more then that, see into the specific details and root causes of that emotion.

BUT! When that has been done previously, it was seeing the specific details and relevant vision in the context of their Avarice. Here is getting pertinent details on the Fear based parts of the emotional spectrum, not Avarice. I think that is new.

Zoat, is this something conventional Orange Lantern Corps users can do with a ring (an Ophidians Eyes Advanced Technique), or is this something more personal stemming from his Enlightenment?


Also, I thought unmarketable trees were useful for fieldworks. I remember seeing a mining show where the trees in the area were used by depositing the limbs and underbrush in the routes the construction equipment used, and whole tree logs laid down over muddy unstable ground to make it solid enough to be driven over safely. Zoat mentioned hauling in rock chips at great expense, when the 'unusable' limber and foliage is right there for the 'exploitation'.



This is frighteningly possible. Intentionally making sure the episode before the April Fools episode is something controversial and divisive content he know will have detractors, so the Equestria episode will feel like a comparative breath air, instead of getting bashed by the pony haters like the last time it happened.

It is a shame that the 'controversial and divisive' content is being a decent person to those with core beliefs you think are fundamentally wrong and harmful, and condemning the belief in an earnest and critical but non-hostile and non-aggressive manner.

Seriously, the comments you have been making here have been filled with so much vitriolic spite and bile, the more I hear it, the more I cringe internally and instinctively feel sorry for the person you are spewing the hate at as a victim. Because of how unthinkingly self righteous and dogmatic you come off.

So... Thanks for making be subconsciously side with the Nazi in the scenario. I really appreciate so fucking much.


It's never lupus is a trope, but all the (TV) doctors have still heard of lupus.

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LITERAL. FUCKING. NAZI.

Seriously, how goddamn brain-dead do you have to be to look at the Nazi and the people hating on the Nazi, and then feel bad for the genocidal asshole?

 

[Cuchulin]

LITERAL. FUCKING. NAZI.

Seriously, how goddamn brain-dead do you have to be to look at the Nazi and the people hating on the Nazi, and then feel bad for the genocidal asshole?

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When the Nazi isn't genocidal, attacking Overgirl for what the Nazi's did during WWII is like attacking 20th century Americans for the genocidal actions of 19th century Americans.

 

[Mquz]

When the Nazi isn't genocidal, attacking Overgirl for what the Nazi's did during WWII is like attacking 20th century Americans for the genocidal actions of 19th century Americans.

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Except 20th Century Americans aren't taught that what 19th Century Americans did was completely a good thing and don't tend to agree with them.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

When the Nazi isn't genocidal, attacking Overgirl for what the Nazi's did during WWII is like attacking 20th century Americans for the genocidal actions of 19th century Americans.

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And if you just so happen to be one of those native tribes, and one of those 20th century Americans is making shitty comments towards your people along the lines of "Oh, a slum? The jews must be at work." I think you can argue justification.

Also? What they did in WWII is what they are STILL DOING on her earth. If anything has slowed or stopped, it's because they've run out of the groups to kill.

 

[Mquz]

And if you just so happen to be one of those native tribes, and one of those 20th century Americans is making shitty comments towards your people along the lines of "Oh, a slum? The jews must be at work." I think you can argue justification.

Also? What they did in WWII is what they are STILL DOING on her earth. If anything has slowed or stopped, it's because they've run out of the groups to kill.

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Well yes - as stated she's never met a Jew and the only black people she's met are slaves. Bit of a problem there. She's not taught to kill them all and the way she's acting is to not do so.

the ideology is wrong and she's starting to doubt it, but she never had reason to before due to the way Nazis succeeded

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Well yes - as stated she's never met a Jew and the only black people she's met are slaves. Bit of a problem there.

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Just a bit.

 

[Mquz]

Just a bit.

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Yeah, not sure how to do red letters, but it's a nightmare distopia like many Dc worlds, just a more realistic one. What did you expect?

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Yeah, not sure how to do red letters, but it's a nightmare distopia like many Dc worlds, just a more realistic one. What did you expect?

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Admittedly, at not point in all the chapters Zoat has done, did I expect two arcs of "Oh that poor little nazi" with like half the board cooing in sympathy.

In that regard, he got me. Never saw that coming.

 

[Cuchulin]

And if you just so happen to be one of those native tribes, and one of those 20th century Americans is making shitty comments towards your people along the lines of "Oh, a slum? The jews must be at work." I think you can argue justification.
Also? What they did in WWII is what they are STILL DOING on her earth. If anything has slowed or stopped, it's because they've run out of the groups to kill.

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No. It's not still going on (the Nazi's won long ago on that Earth), At least no more so than our Earth, which is part of the point. She is a more or less decent person who was raised to follow a pretty vile ideology but doesn't actually have anything do with what you accused her of. She is a Nazi ONLY because she was born and raised in a Germany where the Nazi's won, that makes her misguided rather than a monster.

Admittedly, at not point in all the chapters Zoat has done, did I expect two arcs of "Oh that poor little nazi" with like half the board cooing in sympathy.
In that regard, he got me. Never saw that coming.

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You seem to be blinded by your own Antipathy for Overgirl, I haven't seen much "cooing in sympathy" just people enjoying the story and the development of a interesting character that happens to be a Nazi version of Super Girl.

 

[Mquz]

Admittedly, at not point in all the chapters Zoat has done, did I expect two arcs of "Oh that poor little nazi" with like half the board cooing in sympathy.

In that regard, he got me. Never saw that coming.

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She's a victim of the system she was raised in - and a sympathetic one, since she's doubting it. It's not like she could do anything about it on her Earth - people would call her a traitor and then the local Green Lantern variant (strongly pro-Nazi remember) would probably kill her. Unlike modern-day Nazis or historic Nazis, she's actually fairly sympathetic, especially if she's doubting beliefs she was raised to believe in after less than 48 hours.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

No. It's not still going on (the Nazi's won long ago on that Earth), At least no more so than our Earth, which is part of the point. She is a more or less decent person who was raised to follow a pretty vile ideology but doesn't actually have anything do with what you accused her of. She is a Nazi ONLY because she was born and raised in a Germany where the Nazi's won, that makes her misguided rather than a monster.

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Oh, I'm sorry. They've only killed all the people they wanted to kill already.

I've accused her of being a Nazi by the way. Pretty sure she does have everything to do with that. As she is one.

I didn't have sympathy for the Citadel.

I didn't have sympathy for the Gorg something other aliens.

I didn't have sympathy for the Eye ripper planet.

I didn't have sympathy for the Silver City angels.

I didn't have sympathy for the Psions.

So why the fuck would I have sympathy for the Nazi?

I really don't care how she got there. No more then I care about any Hitler youth that caught a bullet.

I also find all this "She can be useful" logic dehumanizing as fuck. Like wow, your entire life, and how much effort he'll put in, all depends on whether or not OL thinks he can get something out of you.

You seem to be blinded by your own Antipathy for Overgirl, I haven't seen much "cooing in sympathy" just people enjoying the story and the development of a interesting character that happens to be a Nazi version of Super Girl.

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You haven't? I guess you've missed the post after post of me being decried for being too harsh on the poor dear.

She's a victim of the system she was raised in - and a sympathetic one, since she's doubting it. It's not like she could do anything about it on her Earth - people would call her a traitor and then the local Green Lantern variant (strongly pro-Nazi remember) would probably kill her. Unlike modern-day Nazis or historic Nazis, she's actually fairly sympathetic, especially if she's doubting beliefs she was raised to believe in after less than 48 hours.

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I don't find her all that sympathetic, and she's lowering my opinion of OL.

And of some people on this board to be honest.

Her ass could sit in a red sunlight cell. But no, OL's min/maxy bullshit is popping up. Thank god he sees some sort of use in her. Too bad for all the ones he didn't. I'd ask what the difference is, but that was it, he sees a use in her, and not them.

Oh, and of course the purifying, cleansing piety of it all.

If OL had just capped her when she got here, he's a monster.

If she snaps and kills a few people (She wont.) then at least he "Gave her a chance." I mean, fuck the people she killed right? The people that could have been saved.

Whatever.

Fucking gross, all of it.

 

[Zig]

She's a victim of the system she was raised in - and a sympathetic one, since she's doubting it. It's not like she could do anything about it on her Earth - people would call her a traitor and then the local Green Lantern variant (strongly pro-Nazi remember) would probably kill her. Unlike modern-day Nazis or historic Nazis, she's actually fairly sympathetic, especially if she's doubting beliefs she was raised to believe in after less than 48 hours.

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Yeah she's a victim. I tried to stay out of this thinking Maxx was saying enough but his issues with this chapter are actually entirely different than mine. People keep talking about the situation like it's actually happening and how OL is responding in a reasonable way. That's a valid point if you take the situation at face value. But it's not some random situation that happened. It's a real person behind a real keyboard choosing to write a story where where an adult nazi and a black teenage girl are at odds and getting the people reading the story to side with the nazi by making her seem more reasonable. That kind of shit sticks with people. People decades ago were fed lots of stories where the villain just happened to be jewish, or black, or gay, or disabled, and the hero just happens to be a straight white man. And they internalized it, and when they see a news story about a [example redacted since it's modern politics] they side with the white guy. She's not lowering my opinion of OL, but she is lowering my opinion of Zoat.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

I tried to stay out of this thinking Maxx was saying enough but his issues with this chapter are actually entirely different than mine.

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I tried Zig. But I can't always carry all the weight. In recompense, I can send you a cute puppy picture.

Actually, I do get your point. I just give Zoat a lot more benefit of the doubt than I do other authors. He's just....well fucked up so much less.

But yeah, even if Rocket is in character as I recall her (And I really don't know much) it's kinda icky...yeah.

 

[Gantradies]

I'm... kinda in the middle.
One chance.
she Was raised/brainwashed into believing that horseshit from the cradle/when she was literally in kindergarten/school instead of using/inventing it as an excuse to justify their compulsive, sweaty masturbating over pictures of mass graves like the first-generation back in the 30's/40's,
otherwise ,
I'd be fully agreeing with the "just kill her and feel happy for making the world a better place" demographic

way I see it, OL's fucked the whole thing up by being wishy-washy/hypocritical over not interfering with people minds when he's being watched on earth,after cheerfully using mass-mind control to exterminate an entire species (even though I saw it as distasteful, and his methodology dangerously amoral bordering on Pointless sadism, removing the citadel WAS necessary)and massively, needlessly over complicated it, causing a LOT of needless pain/distress to everyone involved.

use a telepath/MMI device to force-feed her a comprehensive, impeccably accurate archive of the regime's actual actions/how patheticly flawed their understanding of genetics/economics/how to manage a country was, the self-indulgent sadism of the people she's probably been raised to venerate as moral paragons..
give her a week, additional sources, then check under the lasso of truth if she's actually thinking about it or doubling down, and quietly shoot her in the head with a cryptonite projectile/Radiation weapon,and dump the body into the nearest convenient singularity/star/irrecoverable disposal method if she's refusing to reconsider her morals/position, and walk away whistling if her response was to froth at the mouth even more-
ASSUMING she wasn't involved in the extermination campaigns (if so, skip to final step without testing)I say she gets one chance to change/question before being... removed to prevent her from killing innocents herself-
she was RAISED into hate- if she consciously chooses it, well-
hey, we tried to give her a chance, and she chose to die- did she really think a group of superheroes, soem if whom may have literally fought them/lost family to them in the 40's,would let someone go who was ideologically devoted to the murder of the majority of the planets/multiverse's human population?

i mean, now that they know there's other universes, and that they're accessible,does anyone REALLY think this iteration of Nazi-ruled earth would be happy to sit idle whilst there's more of the scapegoats for their own incompitance/the Tsar's inexperience as ruler of Russia to kill?

(For context, the "inferior Jewish conspiracy Thats similtainiously stronger and weaker than the master race, because consistency between sentences is for inferiors" bullshit is rooted in one of the last gasp's of Tsarist Russia- there's this booklet, "the protocols of the elders of Zion", thatthe wannabee blackshirts are still waving around today, that the tsar had intelligence/propaganda throw together in a desperate attempt to divert the swelling social unrest towards an imaginary/external enemy- tragically (for the Romanovs- and everyone else on the planet) the nazi's 10-12 years later were the only ones to latch onto it)

..... bloody hell, he's got another potential long-term threat like the Reach to neuter before they start gearing up over the next century or so for purging other earths now, doesn't he!??