With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Darko]

Enlightened lanterns can travel through the Honden with no damage.

The same goes for spiritually powerful people, like Hinon, but they may not be as good at it.

Though remember Paul is unique in that his soul is made entirely, or at least mostly, of orange light.

Aside from seeing peoples avarice even without the ring he can also see their other emotions.
Zoat said that other enlightened lanterns would only be able to see the avarice without the ring, but they wouldn't be able to see the other emotions, just have a strong feeling about them.
That's one diffrence between him and other enlightened lanterns

And I don't know how well the other diffrent colored enlightened people would compare to each other.
Like say Guy and Talbot.
Both are enlightened in their respective color, but Guy bonded with Ion, while Talbot didn't bond the Butcher, so I don't know if Ion left a bit of himself behind in Guy when he ended their merger, so maybe he could develop some powers from what was left behind.

Interestingly the mc of Life Ore Death also once bonded with a arcane entity on her world and when they ended their little merger said entity left some pieces of itself in her.
She described it like blowing up a balloon and leaving behind spit, which can be absorbed.
It is actually transforming her into a New God like entity from her developing spiritual powers.
Maybe something like this can happen to a person that has bonded with an Entity.
Paul has the Ophidians heart and has been called a New God.

 

[Agent Orange]

Zoat said that other enlightened lanterns would only be able to see the avarice without the ring, but they wouldn't be able to see the other emotions, just have a strong feeling about them.

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He must have changed his mind since he wrote him getting empathyvision since the first time we see him using it is shortly after the Ophidian merger. That scene when he and Diana went to see ... the little Wonder Woman? Cassy something? He was ringless in that arc (on account of the whole Cake incident) and he could see other colours on Diana just fine. So maybe he has no in-depth insight in other colours but he should be able to see the superficial emotional makeup of non-shielded individuals.

 

[Darko]

Paragon can see other emotions without the ring just fine, because he has the Heart of the Ophidian as a soul.
Maybe not as much a orange, but he can still see them.

Other enlightened people would only be able to see the emotion to which they have become enlightened without a ring.
For the other emotions they may have a strong feeling, but wont be able to see them without their ring.

Though if they are magic users they may be able to see it.

 

[Ace Dreamer]

we know that humans as a species can use violet rings with deleterious mental effects

Click to shrink...

Should that be 'without'?

Re-read this line three times, and I'm still not sure...

---

This is definitely an interesting pick-up made by the Time Trapper. Makes me wonder if he's building a team, which OL is only part of. I think that'd be the classic comic book (cross-over) approach. Being caught with the wrong ring - that's a nice touch, and I wonder if there are parallels with Grayven being caught as a pony? Or, was that Discord getting a bit of chaotic revenge? (Say, by hitting Grayven with a subtle 'May you live in interesting times' curse.)

Still think Doctor Manehattan would have been more fun.

 

[Darko]

Yeah Dr Manhattan would have been interesting, if only to have Paul fawn over him and his nakedness.

We know he , and his alternates, have a thing for villains, and seeing the shit the blue guy has been pulling in recent years, he qualifies as a villain, plus his beautiful, fit, naked body being on display for OL certainly qualifies as an incentive.

Also I have figured out who Warhammer 40k is going to be dating.

It is...ANGRON .

Now hear me out, he is a test tube baby who has daddy issues and has anger problems, sound familiar coughKoncough.
He is exactly Paul's type.

He can also get into a relationship with Wamuudes, seeing as he wants to 'fix' Angron like he said in the TTS episode

 

[jonasquinn]

Yeah, not gonna lie I'm really pissed

I waited a month through Grayvens fawning over being surrounded by a bunch of fucking ponies and the second we get back to Paul he gets completely neutered as a fighter and dragged into a huge clusterfuck purely as a result of total narrative convenience

What happened to Paul's third ring? Why doesn't Time Trapper go back in time three seconds to before Paul took his ring off? Is Krona really paying close enough attention that he'd notice Paul grabbing his ring? And why didn't he just put the fucking ring in his pocket!?

This is comic book trope level inconvenience, which is the exact thing I usually praise this story for avoiding, except for Grayven who is a walking symbol of comic book logic.

And now we have potentially weeks of Paul being completely useless in the midst of one of the biggest events of the story

Great

 

[GodKiller999]

"Of course it is. And no, you can't. He's almost certainly watching for us. I can't risk breaking cover." He turns away again and continues down the corridor. "I hope that you're a quick learner, for all our sakes."

Click to shrink...

I remember a long while back when I was saying he should learn to use the orange light without his ring and how enhancements that empowered him beyond his ring usage should be a must, but people were saying it'd be a waste of time. Well here we are.

Being enlightened, OL is immune from the violet ring fucking him up, but he'd have to master his new ring before he could create a lantern to charge it with.

Click to shrink...

He's resistant to other lights, he's only immune to the orange light.

 

[Soul Shocker]

Paul should have worn both orange and violet.

 

[Darko]

Zoat said that paragon and Guy can make constructs without their rings like Stewart 50, but without being Awakened it would be very difficult.

Let's be fair to Time Trapper here.

He is fighting an extremely old and powerful being and the fate of the multiverse could be on the line.

His decision making abilities could be stressed right now and he may have trouble thinking clearly.

Paragon has trouble thinking things through clearly even if the stakes aren't so high and he has more prep time.

Remember him introducing Overgirl to the Team just out of the blue, and somehow not telling the League that he will be bringing her to the mountain just because he thinks the League isn't any better at making decisions than he is, despite the fact that the mountain is filled with people that Overgirl has been taught all her life to hate and kill if she sees them.

Really hope Common Sense Paul will be among the Paul's in this episode.

The paragon can use some lessons from him.

 

[Agent Orange]

Really hope Common Sense Paul will be among the Paul's in this episode.

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Common Sense Paul is too OP for this kind of situation. He would just take off his ring and exploit the power of narrative tropes to talk down/defeat Krona, while the other Pauls just stare at him in utter incomprehension because they went native a looong time ago.

 

[Emizaquel]

Just to pitch in, I did a full re-read from the beginning a couple of days ago, and I believe that Paul should have two rings at the moment, after giving his third ring to Ghia'ta.

I've also gone back and re-read the relevant parts,

https://forum.questionablequesting....si-thread-fourteen.8938/page-405#post-2947301 -> Giving away Karfang's ring to Ghia'ta

https://forum.questionablequesting....si-thread-fourteen.8938/page-103#post-2520312 -> Getting Karfang's Ring (specifically three rings)

To be fair, getting Karfang's ring was over a year ago and losing it was over a month ago, so I can see why you forgot.

EDIT: Of course, I don't really have problem with this, though, if Paul doesn't have an Orange ring for some reason (my suspension of disbelief is a bit stretched, I'll admit) I would like to see Paul wielding a Love ring on a more permanent basis.

 

[Darko]

Talking down you enemy without fighting.

I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but really read Life Ore Death, there is a particularly interesting way the mc, Renka, defeats Red Volcano.

Spoiler: she talks him down and uses reason and logic to explain why his plan won't work.

Granted one of her magic abilities is making people trust her more so she can manipulate them, but it has the downside of her also trusting them.

Renka truly is an interesting character once you read about her and her history.

The scene where Mera asks her to tell her one of her past sins is just priceless, and highly shocking of course.

Her interactions with Fate are also a joy to read, and I really like the way Fate is portrayed in that fic. They actually portray the negative way in which he was treated in canon that led to him doing something unethical to procure a host, namely leaving him on a shelf without even trying to interact with him, except those few times the mc did, not finding him a host sooner led to Klarion splitting the two worlds and forced him to blackmail Giovanni in desperation and no small amount of rage. Really like the multi dimensional way he was portrayed there.

There was also a scene where a Lovecraftian being wanted to have a selfie with him
Sadly it happened off page.

The way you portrayed him Zoat was fine, if a bit one dimensional.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Pretty sure the only ring he gave away was the Stewart one to awaken Hinon.

So that would leave him with the original, the dragon one and Larfleeze.

He gave one to Ghi'ta, took one of, but we don't know what happened to the third.

He could have taken both of to better wield the violet ring though.

Click to shrink...

He gave Xalitan Xor a ring. I remember noting that he went from three to two in my head, and I think the ring went to Xor.

Alright let's give it a go...

Hey Mr Zoat, can SI greedport without his ring?

Not other hypothetical orange light users but SI specifically.

Click to shrink...

Not easily and without preparation.

Should that be 'without'?

Re-read this line three times, and I'm still not sure...

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Aeess]

I wonder how the violet ring would affect Paragons soul, he stil got his tattoos after all,and from his trip to hell we know that they still continued to draw upon energy to add to it as long its not earth magic.

Mixing violet light into a soul made out of orange light sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Darko]

Pretty sure Xor got his own ring and not one of the three the SI had.

Also I think he mentioned that after the defeat of Dracul Karfang that he had three rings in his possession.

The controllers gave him several rings to give to people he thought could wield them, Ratchet, Sodam Yat, those blind women etc.

He probably had one, or several extra rings in subspace to give to other he finds worthy and Xor fit the bill.

You can just change it so that he takes both rings off to make it easier to concentrate on the violet ring.

 

[Emizaquel]

He gave Xalitan Xor a ring. I remember noting that he went from three to two in my head, and I think the ring went to Xor.

Click to shrink...

If I remember correctly, Xor was from before Karfang, which would maintain three at the time of Karfang and two at the moment.

Let me check...
Xor -> https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-56#post-2616340
Karfang -> https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-69#post-2706185

Yep, that has Xor as shortly proceeding Karfang.

EDIT: And to add to things, the ring he gives to Xor is not one of his own, but rather an extra he pulls out of an equipment pouch.

....


A pouch which means that Paul not having his ring when taken by Time Trapper Paul makes less sense, as it would make far more sense for Paul to keep his rings on his person even if he did take them off, leaving him with his ring when taken by TTP.

 

[jonasquinn]

Iirc Xor was well before Karfang and Paul definitely had two rings when he fought her

Then he took her ring and gave one of his to Ghia'ta

Also, I reiterate that this whole situation is stupidly convenient

 

[Agent Orange]

I know I've been saying this a lot lately, but really read Life Ore Death, there is a particularly interesting way the mc, Renka, defeats Red Volcano.

Click to shrink...

I have read LOD. I really liked the concept and found Renka's mindset and the novel way she resolves the stations of canon interesting. I especially liked the much more expanded investigation missions the team did and how nuanced them finding out about the Light was. It felt like assembling a puzzle.

Of course there was plenty of negative sides. Proofreading was non-existent in the first several story arcs which really detracted from the story. All of the characters sounded almost exactly like Renka (identical overburdened "stream-of-through"; it didn't look even remotely like stream-of-through, it looked like the same character with different nametags narrates what they are thinking to some telepathic voyeur). If it weren't for constant self-reference in 3rd person (Kaldur was really concerned about x Kaldur though) or PoV titles I wouldn't even know who's thoughts I was following. Eventually, the much expanded character list and overabundance of interwoven plotlines and Renka's never-ending convalescence was too much to follow.

I gave up somewhere around their voyage to Dreaming. Does Renka ever recover enough to go back to field work?

Re: Nabu

I have no issues whatsoever with how Zoat dealt with him. He kept him completely in line with his canon characterization. And to be honest Nabu was never portrayed as particularly likable by modern standards. He takes little to no consideration to how being his host will affect his hosts' personal lives (that goes double for his earlier comic incarnations). He is a hero in a sense that he fights against entities that most people would consider villanous if not monstrous. If you want a really good/beliveably positive interpretation of Nabu read A Silent Knife by industrious.

 

[Darko]

Yeah she recovers enough to go back to field work.

Still it was enjoyable that the author decided to portray Nabu in a more multi dimensional way and I think they really succeeded.

Also if you want to be even more horrified with Apokalips and their society the chapter titled 'DARKSEID IS' really delves deep into the sheer nightmare of that civilization and it also expands on the history between Savage and Darkseid.
Spoiler: they are actually pretty friendly, even calling themselves by their original names, Vander Arg and Uxas, and their relationship goes WAY back before the Genghis Khan phase.

Zoats portrayal of Apokalips was terrifying, but very, very tame compared to what is in Life Ore Death

Also spoiler, Lucifer is running his bar on Thanagar, called Luck's Nightclub, and the history of the First, Second and Third of the Fallen may be diffrent in that universe, or at least there is a diffrent story on how they fell. Lucifer apparently threw them out of Heaven when they tried to attack God because of their disagreement over mortals and all that.

Also if you didn't know Jimmy and Renka started dating, and Jimmy punched LUCIFER in the face, sadly off screen.
And he went on an adventure with Destruction when he was drunk off screen

 

[Agent Orange]

I don't know who 'Jimmy' is but dude, you just spoilered the bits of story I haven't read. Still. I might give it a go again at some point.

 

[Darko]

Jimmy Olsen.
And he punched Lucifer because he was being mean to Maze.
Truly Renka is lucky to have such a chivalrous boyfriend
But seriously their relationship is really sweet.
Which is surprising given their personalities, but I think the author did a good job in portraying their relationship.

I was honestly more surprised that she could get along so well with Highfather.

That probably says some things about Izaya

There weren't that many spoilers to be honest.

 

[Coda]

repto-insectiod

Click to shrink...

insectoid

lets out a peel of pained laughter

Click to shrink...

peal

That's what he gets for storing everything in his ring storage. One would think he would have learned by all the times he couldn't use his ring, lost power, had his ring stolen and so on.

Click to shrink...

he doesn't have actual pockets on his suit

Click to shrink...

He DOES have pockets on his suit, because he DID learn that lesson. He almost certainly has a sidearm on his person at this point.

I would guess he doesn't keep extra rings on his person aside from the ones he's wearing because that's probably more of a liability than an asset. It doesn't grant him any power he doesn't already have and it's a weapon someone else could try to use. If he still has an extra, he's got it put away somewhere secure.

 

[Agent Orange]

If he still has an extra, he's got it put away somewhere secure.

Click to shrink...

Like his toe?

 

[Darko]

Or as Robot Chicken showed us it is possible to place the ring in many diffrent place where so few people would look

Or in his chest like Sybarite.

Now I'm imagining Sybarite using the Robot Chicken method just because.

 

[Agent Orange]

After this mess is over with he'll keep a ring or two implanted in body just below his skin for emergencies (like Jason Bourne in that first movie). Also spares. A ring on each of his hands (check), a ring on both of his big toes (sadly not yet), two earrings (hey pony Grayven made it work). In the end he'll have sooo much bling he'll never be able to pass a metal detector.

 

[Darko]

Don't forget the Robot Chicken method Agent Orange.

But yeah he really should look into getting some powers for himself pronto.

I think Zoat said that he may get powers in the future.

 

[Mr Zoat]

If I remember correctly, Xor was from before Karfang, which would maintain three at the time of Karfang and two at the moment.

Let me check...
Xor -> https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-56#post-2616340
Karfang -> https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-69#post-2706185

Yep, that has Xor as shortly proceeding Karfang.

EDIT: And to add to things, the ring he gives to Xor is not one of his own, but rather an extra he pulls out of an equipment pouch.

....


A pouch which means that Paul not having his ring when taken by Time Trapper Paul makes less sense, as it would make far more sense for Paul to keep his rings on his person even if he did take them off, leaving him with his ring when taken by TTP.

Click to shrink...

Okay, having checked, I can't find anything saying that he didn't have two rings. Modified.

 

[Mr Zoat]

insectoid
peal

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

He DOES have pockets on his suit, because he DID learn that lesson. He almost certainly has a sidearm on his person at this point.

I would guess he doesn't keep extra rings on his person aside from the ones he's wearing because that's probably more of a liability than an asset. It doesn't grant him any power he doesn't already have and it's a weapon someone else could try to use. If he still has an extra, he's got it put away somewhere secure.

Click to shrink...

Yes, but nothing special. He was doing a non-violent training session in a fortified mountain base. The SI wasn't doing anything stupid as the only thing that could get him was someone meddling with time in a way that everything he knows about time travel says isn't possible.

The SI removed his orange rings deliberately so that Ghia'ta could see exactly what he was doing.

 

[Darko]

If you changed it to 'rings' then you should also change 'My ring is' to 'My rings are'

Unless he just generally said where his ring was without specifying how many he had.

 

[Mr Zoat]

If you changed it to 'rings' then you should also change 'My ring is' to 'My rings are'

Unless he just generally said where his ring was without specifying how many he had.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.