With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Zig]

"Don't crush it. My bursary isn't that much."

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure this is a UK only word, had to Google it. Scholarship is the colonial equivalent.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Pretty sure this is a UK only word, had to Google it. Scholarship is the colonial equivalent.

Click to shrink...

I nearly responded 'maybe the Renegade has been a positive influence', but then I realised how unlikely that was.

 

[Vaermina]

Or J'emm and I will have words. Not that I think it will come to that. With the government decapitated during a period of severe civil unrest he's far too busy. J'onn got recalled to help with the Manhunters and I'm a government advisor. No follow up from the Hyperclan as yet. Their agents are still in place, but neither Karmang or T'Pexor have put in an appearance. Maybe the phase-state annihilator that vaporised the top half of Olympus Mons got them? There's a happy thought.

Click to shrink...

*holds in a laugh*

If that's what he actually sent there's no way they're dead. Heck, I am not sure that would even kill a normal Martian. Though, I guess that explains why Motherbox was willing to send it in the first place.

 

[Mr Zoat]

*holds in a laugh*

If that's what he actually sent there's no way they're dead. Heck, I am not sure that would even kill a normal Martian. Though, I guess that explains why Motherbox was willing to send it in the first place.

Click to shrink...

You mean you... Know exactly what a weapon I just made up without providing a description does, and know exactly how it interacts with a fictional species whose precise abilities haven't been defined?

Well, I'm impressed.

 

[Vaermina]

You mean you... Know exactly what a weapon I just made up without providing a description does, and know exactly how it interacts with a fictional species whose precise abilities haven't been defined?

Well, I'm impressed.

Click to shrink...

You shouldn't have used existing scientific terminology to describe it if you didn't want the weapon's capabilities to be defined and picked apart.

 

[Mr Zoat]

You shouldn't have used existing scientific terminology to describe it if you didn't want the weapon's capabilities to be defined and picked apart.

Click to shrink...

Oh, don't. You didn't pick anything apart.

The phase states are solid, liquid, gas, plasma and Bose–Einstein condensate. I stuck 'annihilator' on the end, which could mean 'the set of all linear functionals that map to zero all elements of a given subset of a vector space' but probably means 'thing which reduces a target to utter ruin or nonexistence'. That tells you nothing about how it operates.

 

[Mquz]

OK, clearly we are looking at this through different lenses, because to my mind, you are massively underestimating the bullshit level of most DC-like Earths, including Earth-16.

Of course, a college student who can conjure alcohol would be a lot of fun at parties...

Click to shrink...

Mostly joking there - but I'd assume it would be water hot enough to burn, or air that is essentially hot enough to be on fire, etc ... her new god soul structure being involved with every spell she casts. Less that she is limited and more that fire is intrinsically a part of every spell she casts.

 

[Mquz]

My thought on the phase state anihalator was that it reduces the 3 primary phase states to plasma. This is a purely physical effect and mostly just putting thousands of degrees of heat into an area at once, flash-plasmaing everything. This would instantly annihalate most humans and probably most aliens. Matter itself can't be destroyed and plasma is about the closest you can get. Problem is - Martians can phase through matter. Also, fire/heat doesn't bother them at all. If that's all it did, then most Martians would simply phase out of the real world, preventing the explosion from reaching them - especially if they didn't fear fire/heat.
I am willing to giveback the benefit of the doubt, however and say it simply breaks the laws of physics. It annihalates all possibility of atomic bonds, or it dumps a huge amount of antimatter (nucular reaction with regular matter), etc..., but it's fairly hard to find anything physical that Martians can't phase out of avoiding, or can't teleport away from. Certainly you could nuke them/ explode them and they would just phase and avoid it with even the slightest warning. Most weapons/ bombs would have to be designed specifically to affect phased out Martians to kill them. Even with Apocalyptian bombs, unless they are specifically designed to affect beings phased out of existence - and why would they be?
On the other hand, if phase-state were to refer to the state Martians are in when phased out, instead of the states of matter, that would likely kill them. It's an annihalator/ sub-atomizer bomb that also targets enemies that are phased out - a phase-state annihalator.

 

[Lucem]

I assumed it meant quantum mechanics phase, rather than state of matter phase, and it worked by making it impossible for things to exist near where it detonated.

 

[Vaermina]

Oh, don't. You didn't pick anything apart.

The phase states are solid, liquid, gas, plasma and Bose–Einstein condensate. I stuck 'annihilator' on the end, which could mean 'the set of all linear functionals that map to zero all elements of a given subset of a vector space' but probably means 'thing which reduces a target to utter ruin or nonexistence'. That tells you nothing about how it operates.

Click to shrink...

First of all, Bose–Einstein condensate is a low temperature state not a fundamental state...

Second, you're forgetting the physics description of "annihilator", which is "To convert (a subatomic particle) to energy or high-energy particles by annihilation".

Third, you're forgetting that Martians aren't made of ordinary matter.

I am reminded of a story from the production of Stargate SG-1 who's moral applies here. In the middle of the show a new writer came in, he was writing a episode that involved the extraction of a symbiote. Long story short, after an exhaustive search to find out how that was handled that involved senior writers trolling him. He found out it was with a blink and you miss it throwaway line that amounted to "the extraction process was a success". The moral of this whole story is, "you don't have to be specific".

You didn't need to call the bomb a phase state annihilator, you could have just said bomb and nobody would have wondered about the how.

 

[Buggy123]

First of all, Bose–Einstein condensate is a low temperature state not a fundamental state...

Click to shrink...

Don't you mean "classical state"? There are three classical states of matter (solid, liquid, gas) but as it turns out there's a lot of border cases, exceptions, etc that really don't fall into any one category. And there's also a whole bunch of stuff that's just completely new, like Bose-Einstein condensate. All in all, if you aren't limiting yourself to classical states there's probably close to 20 of them, not just 3.

And if we are limiting ourselves to classical states, plasma probably shouldn't be in there either. That's a bit too recent to be a classical state, I'd say. Though I think it would be a bit silly to limit ourselves to classical states; every time we discover some new exotic state, are we just going to say "it doesn't count! there are three states of matter! THREE!"?

Second, you're forgetting the physics description of "annihilator", which is "To convert (a subatomic particle) to energy or high-energy particles by annihilation".

Click to shrink...

False; that is not the only usage of "annihilation".

Third, you're forgetting that Martians aren't made of ordinary matter.

Click to shrink...

I'm sorry, I can't remember where in WTR or Young Justice that this was brought up. Could you link me to it, please?

I am reminded of a story from the production of Stargate SG-1 who's moral applies here. In the middle of the show a new writer came in, he was writing a episode that involved the extraction of a symbiote. Long story short, after an exhaustive search to find out how that was handled that involved senior writers trolling him. He found out it was with a blink and you miss it throwaway line that amounted to "the extraction process was a success". The moral of this whole story is, "you don't have to be specific".

Click to shrink...

It's almost like he came up with a inspecific technobabble explanation that consisted of a name and nothing else, and then just explained the effects afterwards...

 

[Mquz]

Don't you mean "classical state"? There are three classical states of matter (solid, liquid, gas) but as it turns out there's a lot of border cases, exceptions, etc that really don't fall into any one category. And there's also a whole bunch of stuff that's just completely new, like Bose-Einstein condensate. All in all, if you aren't limiting yourself to classical states there's probably close to 20 of them, not just 3.

And if we are limiting ourselves to classical states, plasma probably shouldn't be in there either. That's a bit too recent to be a classical state, i'd sayt Though I think it would be a bit silly to limit ourselves to classical states; every time we discover some new exotic state, are we just going to say "it doesn't count! there are three states of matter! THREE!"?

Click to shrink...

The page you linked has plasma as a classical state. All of them except quark-gluon plasma are low energy states, and I assumed it might convert matter into something like that. Kind of hard for a bomb to bring something to near 0 temperatures. Either way, this is irrelevantly if talking about quantum phasing. Also, this could be another thing different about this universe - Martians are made of a matter that Apocalyptian quantum-phase-state anihalator bombs can affect. That seems like a small difference, right?

 

[Buggy123]

The page you linked has plasma as a classical state.

Click to shrink...

It also has amorphous solids, quasicrystals, liquid crystals, disordered hyperunity...

I'm more referring to what someone like the ancient Greeks would refer to as a distinct state of matter. Literally "classical". Because apparently we're throwing out everything modern and using our own made up definitions anyway...

 

[Mr Zoat]

First of all, Bose–Einstein condensate is a low temperature state not a fundamental state...

Second, you're forgetting the physics description of "annihilator", which is "To convert (a subatomic particle) to energy or high-energy particles by annihilation".

Third, you're forgetting that Martians aren't made of ordinary matter.

I am reminded of a story from the production of Stargate SG-1 who's moral applies here. In the middle of the show a new writer came in, he was writing a episode that involved the extraction of a symbiote. Long story short, after an exhaustive search to find out how that was handled that involved senior writers trolling him. He found out it was with a blink and you miss it throwaway line that amounted to "the extraction process was a success". The moral of this whole story is, "you don't have to be specific".

You didn't need to call the bomb a phase state annihilator, you could have just said bomb and nobody would have wondered about the how.

Click to shrink...

I've you're not going to accept my Word of God on my own work, there's no point in talking to me.

 

[Mquz]

It also has amorphous solids, quasicrystals, liquid crystals, disordered hyperunity...

I'm more referring to what someone like the ancient Greeks would refer to as a distinct state of matter. Literally "classical". Because apparently we're throwing out everything modern and using our own made up definitions anyway...

Click to shrink...

The only real problem I see with any bomb affecting Martians, is that they should be able to phase through anything. It doesn't matter if temperature is suddenly raised by millions of degrees, if you're no longer technically in the same plane of existence (in the quantumphasing way). Zoat's comment about physical states just led to confusion. It would be a lot easier to assume it refers to quantum phasing/ whatever type of phasing Martians do(might have to do with phases of matter?)/ the ability to affect phased Martians and leave it at that perfectly generic sci-fi term.

For irony, you could imagine it destabilizing their phase states (or whatever Karmang did to make all the other Martians burn themselves) and just go with that as part of it's effect.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

You mean you... Know exactly what a weapon I just made up without providing a description does, and know exactly how it interacts with a fictional species whose precise abilities haven't been defined?

Well, I'm impressed.

Click to shrink...

It's Vaermina. I believe we have already established that Vaermina is the absolute authority on everything that Vaermina chooses to comment upon. Yes, this also includes fictional subjects that you just made up.

Vaermina was an expert on that shit yesterday.

We are all truly awed.

 

[Stsword]

The only real problem I see with any bomb affecting Martians, is that they should be able to phase through anything. It doesn't matter if temperature is suddenly raised by millions of degrees, if you're no longer technically in the same plane of existence (in the quantumphasing way). Zoat's comment about physical states just led to confusion. It would be a lot easier to assume it refers to quantum phasing/ whatever type of phasing Martians do(might have to do with phases of matter?)/ the ability to affect phased Martians and leave it at that perfectly generic sci-fi term.

For irony, you could imagine it destabilizing their phase states (or whatever Karmang did to make all the other Martians burn themselves) and just go with that as part of it's effect.

Click to shrink...

When was it established that Martians become intangible through quantum phasing? I don't remember that being the technobabble Zoat went with. Am I misremembering?

I do remember it was different technobabble than word of Greg, which makes it a shapeshifting trick to alter density ala Marvel's Vision, but unlike the Vision they cannot affect mass, just density.

 

[Coda]

university… Ugh, Americans. College campus

Click to shrink...

We're totally happy to refer to a collection of colleges as a university, and pretty much every major institute of higher education in the US has multiple colleges under its umbrella. No American would bat an eye at referring to the "university campus".

Not that this impacts how a British person would think about such things to themselves when in the presence of Americans.

 

[Mquz]

When was it established that Martians become intangible through quantum phasing? I don't remember that being the technobabble Zoat went with. Am I misremembering?

I do remember it was different technobabble than word of Greg, which makes it a shapeshifting trick to alter density ala Marvel's Vision, but unlike the Vision they cannot affect mass, just density.

Click to shrink...

Not sure. Only explanation was in an early scene when Ms Martian is trying to pass her hand through a table and failing. If that's not the reason, it still seems like it would be nearly impossible to kill someone who could pass through a wall with something that only affects the physical world if they were prepared. I don't really remember what the explanation was, but I do remember that it was supposedly possible to get stuck phasing / shifting through an object unless practiced, which means that if practiced, you can't get hit by an object/ energy phasing through you? Either way, just to not have to deal with all the difficulty of the last few dialogues, I'm assuming the phasing in the name refers to the bomb's ability to deal with whatever type of phasing Martians use, which might otherwise be used as a workaround to being hit with explosions.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I nearly responded 'maybe the Renegade has been a positive influence', but then I realised how unlikely that was.

Click to shrink...

Canuck here, we do use the words bursary and scholarship, but we have both universities and colleges as separate institutions as well, and our lingo tends to wander both ways.

 

[Vaermina]

False; that is not the only usage of "annihilation".

Click to shrink...

Dude... It's "Annihilator" not "Annihlation"... At least try to get the word being talked about right.

 

[Mquz]

Dude... It's "Annihilator" not "Annihlation"... At least try to get the word being talked about right.

Click to shrink...

Annihilator: one who causes annihalation.

 

[Buggy123]

Dude... It's "Annihilator" not "Annihlation"... At least try to get the word being talked about right.

Click to shrink...

Great point! Lets just go ahead and look at that page you linked...

Hmm... we have 4 different mathematical definitions, a few relating to pop-culture and even one for DC... and nothing relating to physics.

Well, great point Vaermina! If one of the greatest repositories of knowledge on the planet says that "Annihilator" doesn't refer to anything specifc in the field of physics, I guess it must be true! Thank you for clarifying that for us all.

 

[Ardy]

Without Vaermina this board would be so boring. It's like that Simpson's clip where Lionel Hutz imagines a world without lawyers and shivers at the utopia of friendship and understanding.

 

[Mquz]

Without Vaermina this board would be so boring. It's like that Simpson's clip where Lionel Hutz imagines a world without lawyers and shivers at the utopia of friendship and understanding.

Click to shrink...

That said, there's a reason people don't just ignore him. He knows a decent amount of DC stuff, usually not related/included in this fic, and seems to specifically set his head canon to disagree with Zoat. It can be interesting to argue with someone who thinks they're right all the time when they're clearly overthinking it.

 

[Valiran]

There was a fanfic I read where the local goddess of fire caused someone to keel over by flat out stopping the ATP reaction cells use to obtain energy. I don't know how well the science supports that one, but damn if it wasn't impressive.

Click to shrink...

You tell us this and don't provide a link? For shame, man!

 

[Mquz]

You tell us this and don't provide a link? For shame, man!

Click to shrink...

Eh, seems like a bit of a stretch. If you let someone who controls fire control all exothernic chemical reactions, they are way too OP. They could:
turn off the sun (the main one)

cause solar flares that burn the earth

kill people instantly - by burning them from the inside

control emotions/ people's nerves - brainwashing

lightning (maybe)

Control anything that runs using electricity (seems easier than controlling atp)

 

[Buggy123]

Eh, seems like a bit of a stretch. If you let someone who controls fire control all exothernic chemical reactions, they are way too OP. They could:
turn off the sun (the main one)

cause solar flares that burn the earth

kill people instantly - by burning them from the inside

control emotions/ people's nerves - brainwashing

lightning (maybe)

Control anything that runs using electricity (seems easier than controlling atp)

Click to shrink...

Eh, you could always just let them do all of that and then build the story around them. That's basically what Fall of Doc Future did, but with a realistic speedster instead of a fire controller. Turns out, all the secondary abilities needed to let someone run around at a significant fraction of C? They kinda make you the most powerful being on Earth, bar none.

 

[Queshire]

You tell us this and don't provide a link? For shame, man!

Click to shrink...

If it's the fanfic I think it is then it's an edgy as fuck pony fic. Still want it?

 

[Ardy]

If it's the fanfic I think it is then it's an edgy as fuck pony fic. Still want it?

Click to shrink...

This would be the forum for it, but please don't

edit: oh, edgy as fuck, that's different