With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[fappingtoyourpost]

I don't think people are gunna sign up for starfish facials

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I would absolutely sign up for a 5 year Infinite Tsukuyomi for minimum wage + room & board, especially if you made sure my mind controlled body stayed in shape and the dreams weren't too unpleasant. I think a lot of humans would take that deal.

 

[TheEyes]

Though at least it's lit a fire under certain people's bottoms. Despite rumblings to the contrary, the Democratic party nominated President Horne as their candidate. He's made some noise about encouraging private space exploration, which is apparently the quickest that he's ever responded to anything. Senator Knight doesn't quite have the Republican nomination yet, but he's loudly announced his intention to throw money at NASA in order to catch up.

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FYI, you got the names backwards. Republicans are conservative, which in the US means they hate civilian government institutions and set them up to fail every time they can. NASA is a historically successful civilian government institution; thus the Republicans hate it and have done their best since the Berlin Wall fell to gut it and outsource the jobs to corporations; therefore "private space exploration". The exception here would be if Senator Knight is campaigning instead for a military-based Space Force; Republicans love military stuff, mostly because it's a giant pot of money that can be funneled to private military corporations.

The Democrats are the ones who want to raise taxes to fund civilian government programs like NASA.

 

[norax1]

That's actionable, so I'll see what I can do.

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Would be nice to see him improve education with schizo tech. (I think that would not count as politics)

Or finally take over earth.

Or improve the lives of everyone and make an utopia. And then have the problem that nobody leaves the house.

Or invent decentralized internet, that can't be censored or restricted. Maybe with magic. (Goverments would fall. Racism would grow. And that is clearly too political.)

Or just have him develop a technology/magic that will make many people unemployed. And riot/strike. (Could be too political)
His magic teleportation should do that anyway. Or the purple heal ray. Or the bleed generators...

Or combine all those, and have him develop an addictive magical VR educational multiplayer game. And nobody leaves home, cause the VR goggles keep them alive and well fed/hydrated.

Or just show a week in OL's live, where he visits all his old/ongoing projects, and realizes nothing he did changed the world, yet. (Maybe it did, but we don't see that, if he fights off planets.)

Well let him deal with consequences of his actions. Like introducing cheap energy makes it easier to build super weapons.

 

[Baladar]

That bit about it not understanding.....that's hitting all the buttons good Star Trek episodes it's on me.

Zoat you need to be paid for this.

 

[greynoise]

I think I'm done with this story. It isn't any one thing, rather the fact that I haven't felt any connection to the main character's goals in a very long time, mostly because it seem alike OL himself is unconnected to his goals. There doesn't seem to be any kind of progression towards a visualized goal, as opposed to a meandering mess of vaguely relevant stories. I can't even remember the last plotline I genuinely enjoyed rather than reading out of a sunk-cost sense of duty.

Anyway, best of luck in your future endeavors, but I won't be here to see them. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Mr Zoat]

FYI, you got the names backwards. Republicans are conservative, which in the US means they hate civilian government institutions and set them up to fail every time they can. NASA is a historically successful civilian government institution; thus the Republicans hate it and have done their best since the Berlin Wall fell to gut it and outsource the jobs to corporations; therefore "private space exploration". The exception here would be if Senator Knight is campaigning instead for a military-based Space Force; Republicans love military stuff, mostly because it's a giant pot of money that can be funneled to private military corporations.

The Democrats are the ones who want to raise taxes to fund civilian government programs like NASA.

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No, I got the names the right way around. Individuals aren't simply their party's median.

Horne prefers a limited role for the executive and so prefers other actors to take the initiative, while Knight is merrily Keynesian in his desire to spend on projects of national pride and strength.

 

[Idkusername]

Congratulations, in your attempt to retcon how the Giant Starfish worked because you didn't like them having OP telekinetic powers, you just created a "Chicken or Egg" causality dilemma in concerns to their very existence.

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Congratulations, in your attempt to invent plotholes where there aren't any, you just showed a lack of understanding of how evolution actually works.

Just because it is inconceivable to you that a bodily process may have had some benefit in thee past history of an organism, doesn't mean it actually is so.

Take eyes, for example. What good would have one single light receptor done for an organism if it still couldn't see? Well, for one, it could tell if it was day or night. Then it would have the ability to tell vague shapes, and so on and so forth.

Processes change. Besides, it seems to me that the Mother Stars are an intentionally designed part of the species, and it was only the ability to use magic that arose as a consequence of evolution.

 

[mossconfig]

, you got the names backwards.

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Zoat is writing a bizarro world the post 911 crazyness didn't happen. Imagine if the 2012 republican autopsy was followed in 1996. I'd imagine in this universe the hardcore evangelicals got sidelined for a broad tent Christian political movement with the more religious black and Hispanic voters getting swayed to the Republican side, instead of what happened irl.

 

[AidanMorgan]

Zoat is writing a bizarro world the post 911 crazyness didn't happen. Imagine if the 2012 republican autopsy was followed in 1996. I'd imagine in this universe the hardcore evangelicals got sidelined for a broad tent Christian political movement with the more religious black and Hispanic voters getting swayed to the Republican side, instead of what happened irl.

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*Hisses as if burned*

Nasty politics, get it out of the thread!

Anyway, I agree that this whole section is kinda meandering a bit, and I look forward to a time when the story has something pushing it forward again.

Shit, I'd actually enjoy more Renegade segments because I wanna see more of how he builds a relationship with Luna.

Also, I want to see human Luna and human post-ascension Sunset.

And this coming from someone who used to absolutely hate the Renegade plotline.

 

[Darko]

Zoat is writing a bizarro world the post 911 crazyness didn't happen. Imagine if the 2012 republican autopsy was followed in 1996. I'd imagine in this universe the hardcore evangelicals got sidelined for a broad tent Christian political movement with the more religious black and Hispanic voters getting swayed to the Republican side, instead of what happened irl.

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Careful you may be a bit too close to the no modern politics rule.

FYI, you got the names backwards. Republicans are conservative, which in the US means they hate civilian government institutions and set them up to fail every time they can. NASA is a historically successful civilian government institution; thus the Republicans hate it and have done their best since the Berlin Wall fell to gut it and outsource the jobs to corporations; therefore "private space exploration". The exception here would be if Senator Knight is campaigning instead for a military-based Space Force; Republicans love military stuff, mostly because it's a giant pot of money that can be funneled to private military corporations.

The Democrats are the ones who want to raise taxes to fund civilian government programs like NASA.

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People can belong to one political party, but they may still support something that the other party typically does.

Once upon a time Republicans actually supported an increase in how much the federal government has influence over the state government.

Lincoln actually supported this, and he was a Republican.

Also Republicans are typically seen as supporting conservative values so they are opposed to things like divorce, but Ronald Reagan signed a No fault divorce law into effect.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Congratulations, in your attempt to retcon how the Giant Starfish worked because you didn't like them having OP telekinetic powers, you just created a "Chicken or Egg" causality dilemma in concerns to their very existence.

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Since when are existential paradoxes an issue when it comes to magic let alone the Dreaming?

 

[Kalem_Lee]

Overall i enjoyed this arc as part of the "Get off your Bum Earth and be in Space".

Manga Khan was a delight to see again from the old JLI stuff I've read.

As for Paul, ehhh I thought his role as advisor/overseer was ok in context of letting others have the spotlight. But I do think Grayven's recent Pony arc was more fun thanks to schadenfrude and his beating back the ALE.

I think Zoat may have hit the Weisman Curse of YJ s3. The Universe is so Open but we miss the Principals that came before.

 

[Darko]

Hey Zoat is tomorrows version of Paul going to be a orange ring wielder?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Hey Zoat is tomorrows version of Paul going to be a orange ring wielder?

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To start with, yes.

 

[zerofarad]

I feel the feedback change as the pendent is filled.

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pendant

 

[Mr Zoat]

pendant

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Thank you, corrected.

 

[Senevri]

I find it hilarious that posting politics is worse than porn, on QQ.

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What do you mean? Practically by any possible metric except scale, politics is way worse.

 

[Vaermina]

If the rest of Atlantis attacks Venturia and occupies it then the fleet that comes is going to attack the rest of Atlantis, or OL, or some other Lantern will attack Atlantis, that's what Paul told Orin when they talked about this in the Low Politics episode.

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At which point the League will be able to intervene and stop them, because it's no longer a civil war matter, but an outside alien force attacking Atlantis.

Since when are existential paradoxes an issue when it comes to magic let alone the Dreaming?

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Since Zoat made it so they require Hosts to do so.

Basically the paradox Zoat set up is that they need hosts to travel between worlds and get hosts.

 

[Jirachi]

At which point the League will be able to intervene and stop them, because it's no longer a civil war matter, but an outside alien force attacking Atlantis.



Since Zoat made it so they require Hosts to do so.

Basically the paradox Zoat set up is that they need hosts to travel between worlds and get hosts.

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IIRC, the way that the star conquerors got off there homeworld was a visiting sapient race, so that actually makes sense and isn't a paradox in context I think?
I wonder how close the 'induce nightmares' dream token things is to the sort of thing that can do more elaborate dream manipulation for magic in space implementation...

 

[Vaermina]

IIRC, the way that the star conquerors got off there homeworld was a visiting sapient race, so that actually makes sense and isn't a paradox in context I think?

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Starro are a space born race.

 

[Darko]

At which point the League will be able to intervene and stop them, because it's no longer a civil war matter, but an outside alien force attacking Atlantis.

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The League probably won't do that since they may consider what Atlantis did to be wrong, and even if Orin is a friend of some of them they may not condone it if he orders an attack.

The League is full of moral people and they probably don't like it when a nation conquers another nation without provocation when said nation wants to peacefully secede.

It wouldn't be an alien invasion attacking an innocent nation, but rather an alien force attacking a nation that annaxed another nation through force and without provocation.

The League will probably also be hesitant to fight LEGION since unlike the previous alien invasion they faced, which was basically a handful of powerful aliens and not a fleet, this will be a fleet of what is perhaps some of the most advanced warships in the galaxy.

The fact that they may face Orange Lanterns is also a concern since unlike Green Lanterns they lack many of the restrictions.

The Green Lanterns may also not be able to help since they are bound by rules that restrict them.

I'd bet that one of said rules allows a fleet to protect a nation that has contracted them, as well as allowing for them to retaliate against a hostile nation.

Orin is also smart enough to avoid a fight with Paul since he knows that Paul is extremely powerful and extremely ruthless.

Since Zoat made it so they require Hosts to do so.

Basically the paradox Zoat set up is that they need hosts to travel between worlds and get hosts.

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Starro are a space born race.

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The Hatorei may have accidently brought the Starros from the Dreaming, so they would qualify as a dream born race.

Yes in the comics they were space born, but from what we've seen in this story that may not be the case here.

What host paradox are you talking about anyway?

Zoat mentioned that the Mother Stars can travel through space under their own power and they can spawn other Starros, so they don't need hosts, so I don't see a paradox there.

Leave a link to when Zoat said what you consider to be a paradox instead of pulling things from your ass.

 

[Agumentic]

What this means, is that unless Aquaman decides to sit on his ass doing nothing politics wise, which I will admit is a real possibility with the "static world" problem Zoat seems to be developing as a writer, by the time the Legion ships do arrive, it will be to a place reintegrated into Atlantis.

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I mean, what's he's gonna do, declare a war on them? Why? Even without possible LEGION retribution, why would you spend a lot of effort, lives and resources to capture a city full of the hostile populace that really doesn't want you here, especially since they have actual legitimate grievances you just discovered and are not protecting any uncouth practices?

 

[Vaermina]

The League probably won't do that since they may consider what Atlantis did to be wrong, and even if Orin is a friend of some of them they may not condone it if he orders an attack.

The League is full of moral people and they probably don't like it when a nation conquers another nation without provocation when said nation wants to peacefully secede.

It wouldn't be an alien invasion attacking an innocent nation, but rather an alien force attacking a nation that annaxed another nation through force and without provocation.

The League will probably also be hesitant to fight LEGION since unlike the previous alien invasion they faced, which was basically a handful of powerful aliens and not a fleet, this will be a fleet of what is perhaps some of the most advanced warships in the galaxy.

The fact that they may face Orange Lanterns is also a concern since unlike Green Lanterns they lack many of the restrictions.

The Green Lanterns may also not be able to help since they are bound by rules that restrict them.

I'd bet that one of said rules allows a fleet to protect a nation that has contracted them, as well as allowing for them to retaliate against a hostile nation.

Orin is also smart enough to avoid a fight with Paul since he knows that Paul is extremely powerful and extremely ruthless.

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The League can't refuse to defend a country against an Alien attack.
It's in their charter.

I mean, what's he's gonna do, declare a war on them? Why? Even without possible LEGION retribution, why would you spend a lot of effort, lives and resources to capture a city full of the hostile populace that really doesn't want you here, especially since they have actual legitimate grievances you just discovered and are not protecting any uncouth practices?

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It's adorable that you think comic world politics run on logic.

Also that that the populace of that city would particularly care.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

It wouldn't be an alien invasion attacking an innocent nation, but rather an alien force attacking a nation that annaxed another nation through force and without provocation.

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It wouldn't even neccessarily be that, it'd be the SI, and probably Kori, if she sticks around long enough; fighting alongside whatever military Venturia can muster against the Atlantean invasion force.

 

[Darko]

The League can't refuse to defend a country against an Alien attack.
It's in their charter.



It's adorable that you think comic world politics run on logic.

Also that that the populace of that city would particularly care.

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Provide a link to the charter.

Do you really think the League is going to accept a nation forcefully annaxing another one with force and without provocation?

Do try to actually think about your response to this question.

Also this isn't exactly a simple alien invasion, but an alien group defending an ally that is being unjustly attacked.

As long as the fleet doesn't attack innocents and doesn't commit warcrimes then I think the League can accept their presence.

Even if they for some unfathomable reason decide to support Atlantis in their unjust actions I'm pretty sure the fleet or an orange lantern can handle them.

They have some of the most advanced ships in the galaxy and orange lanterns don't have the restrictions that green Lanterns have.

The League has few space capable members and OL already proved that he can take down the League.

It's adorable that you actually think you know anything about how the world works.

You do remember when Knight adopted a sensible approach to dealing with magic, that was a logical thing to do?

Oh who am I kidding, even if you remember it you'll just repress it and makeup some half baked bullshit excuse since to acknowledge it will mean that you're somehow wrong, and we all know that to you admitting to being wrong is the equivalent of another person committing suicide.

The populace of the city would care since they've been taught to distrust outsiders for decades and now they're being told to let an outsider rule them after having their city conquered by a hostile force.

People in that type of situation don't tend to respond with acceptance or indifference, but with hostility.

If you respond to any of my statements then try to actually put some intelligent thought into it instead of your usual moronic babble and fuckery.

I know it's gonna be a herculean task for you, but do try it.

 

[Vorian]

If you respond to any of my statements then try to actually put some intelligent thought into it instead of your usual moronic babble and fuckery.

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Ok seriously might be time to take a break from arguing with Vaermina for a while. Or just put them on ignore. This isn't helping anyone right here.

 

[alethiophile]

FYI, you got the names backwards. Republicans are conservative, which in the US means they hate civilian government institutions and set them up to fail every time they can. NASA is a historically successful civilian government institution; thus the Republicans hate it and have done their best since the Berlin Wall fell to gut it and outsource the jobs to corporations; therefore "private space exploration". The exception here would be if Senator Knight is campaigning instead for a military-based Space Force; Republicans love military stuff, mostly because it's a giant pot of money that can be funneled to private military corporations.

The Democrats are the ones who want to raise taxes to fund civilian government programs like NASA.

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Don't bring your commentary on RL political parties into this story.

 

[Mquz]

Careful you may be a bit too close to the no modern politics rule.



People can belong to one political party, but they may still support something that the other party typically does.

Once upon a time Republicans actually supported an increase in how much the federal government has influence over the state government.

Lincoln actually supported this, and he was a Republican.

Also Republicans are typically seen as supporting conservative values so they are opposed to things like divorce, but Ronald Reagan signed a No fault divorce law into effect.

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Yeah, but there was a major change in what parts of the country the parties represented back in the 60s after the Civil Rights movement, with Evangelicals and such becoming loud voices in the Republican Party, and it only really went pro-business in the 80s and after with Ronald Reagan and Raeganomics supporting big businesses. If Reaganomics hadn't happened, the Republican Party would be preety different today.
In fact, having Superheroes during the Civil War would likely also change a lot of modern American politics. Due in part to huge amounts of voting fraud (at least suspected voting fraud), the president after Lincoln, Andrew Johnson was very pro-South. He created the Lost Cause myth and did his best to stop Reconstruction and a whole bunch of pro-Civil Rights acts, which ultimately led to the need for the movement in the 60s. If historical American politics were a little different - I.E. there were vigilantes fighting villains behind voting fraud after the civil war or John Wilkes Booth never assassinated Lincoln due to a superhero saving him, Black Rights wouldn't have been as much of an issue - or at least the issue would have been very different, which would lead to very different politics for years afterwards. For one, there might not have been a party flip in the 60s, which might make Reagan be a Democratic candidate in the 80s.

This part of American history confuses a lot of people since the Democratic Party started out as the party of the South led by Andrew Jackson - America's most Hillbilly president.

This is 40 + year old politics and hopefully not part of rule 8 - should probably delete it anyways.

 

[Mr Zoat]

9th November 2018
19:12 GMT -5

Hah.

So this is the future?

Looks… Pretty much the same.

If I knew more about fashion then I could probably make a clever observation about clothes or something, but… I haven't seen anything particularly strange. More smart phones than I remember seeing, but mobile phones weren't something I've ever been interested in.

…

DC.

It's curious. In the comics the Justice Society came together… I'm not sure, actually. I remember from Starman that Jay Garrick and Alan Scott were active in the forties and I think I remember a Superman comic where he went back to that era and tried to ask them for help returning to the present only to be blocked by the Spectre…

Here, they were a modern group. There were superheroes during the Second World War, and they were called the All-Star Squadron. But the Justice Society formed in the nineties from a group of heroes who'd worked together to varying degrees for years. It's like… If someone really wanted to do a Justice League film, had the ideas and the budget but couldn't get the licence for the property they really wanted to adapt.

And eight years ago they were all killed.

Quite how that happened I'm not sure about, but more than a few names I remember from the comics turned up dead after a major fight with a group called 'The Injustice Society', who promptly appear to have gone underground.

Which leaves me with a choice to make.

There are supervillains, but major battles appear to be a bi-annual thing, and if you're not in that city there's a good chance your life will be entirely unaffected. Worldwide crises… Even if you count something like the Second World War, there have been.. maybe.. three..? So life is pretty much the same as it was back home, not just in terms of society and technology but in terms of life-as-experienced.

I don't… Need.. to get involved.

Then again… I've done the obvious thing of getting a giant pile of precious metal by mining asteroids. I sold enough to get walking around money, and selling the rest at intervals won't really present much of a problem. Even with no qualifications that I can prove, I can easily get away with not working another day in my life. Which is… Nice, but it does leave me with a rather empty schedule.

And the few hours I've spent with this ring have been the most intense of my life.

I'm…

I'm trying to justify doing something stupid and dangerous. But I don't think I could stand not doing that stuff. I don't think I can give it up.

So then. Here's to being stupid.

I raise my right fist to knock on the-.

And I'm airborne, a glowing green disc propelling me through the air! The acceleration is keeping me pressed against it but I can see quite a long way down at the moment. And-.

The disc slows, rotating as it does so to keep me onboard. As it comes to a halt in a horizontal position I carefully pick myself up and straighten my clothes.

And here she comes. White and black costume with a green atomic nucleus emblem between her breasts.

Gosh. Um. This may not be a very superheroey world but her physique clearly took its cues from the generous proportions of-.

"My face is up here."

"Yes." My eyes move upwards to her decidedly unimpressed face. "Yes, it is."

"Who are you and what do you want?"

I could mess around and use ambiguous language, but she's already annoyed… Best to be direct.

"I would like to purchase Green Lantern Alan Scott's personal lantern. I believe that you're the owner, and since you obviously don't have a secret identity, finding you-"

"In a cabin in a national park with no roads for miles around."

"-was simple."

She looks down, and I see a green light strobe over the countryside.

"Who else is here?"

"I didn't.. see anyone."

The band of green light vanishes into the distance, and she returns her attention to me.

"Why the hell would I give-"

"Sell."

"-Alan Scott's ring to a creep like you?"

"In my defence, you're an extremely attractive woman wearing a thin skin-tight costume in November. And while I certainly don't wish to diminish the significance of your achievements or character, I don't think my being distracted is completely unreasonable."

That gets a half eye roll. Not 'Dad's ring', I notice. I suppose that if they… Unlike her brother, Jennifer-Lynn had good parents growing up. Understandable that she thinks of the man who raised her as 'Dad' rather than her biological father.

"And I don't need his ring. I've already-."

I'm in America. I've heard this story enough times to know to warn armed people before reaching anywhere they can't see.

"I'm going to reach into my pocket to get something to show you?"

She looks mildly puzzled. Alright, fine. I slide my right hand into my jacket pocket and take out the ring I was wearing when I got here.

"See? I've got my-" Her only reaction is mild curiosity. One point in favour of the Green Lantern Corps not existing in this parallel. "-own ring."

She shakes her head. "So what do you need his lantern for?"

"As a charge point. I'm… Hopeful that I can adapt it to charge this ring."

She shakes her head. "I'm not letting you damage his equipment."

"Is someone using it? I didn't.. see anything about a new Green Lantern."

"No. No one's using it. But that lantern and the ring that goes with it are a part of his legacy, and I'm not going to let just anyone take it."

"So there's no amount of money-?"

"No."

"I mean, you could endow a scholarship in his name, or set up a charitable foundation or something?"

"I'm not going to sell you his lantern so you can mess around with it."

I sigh.

"O… Kay. How about if I don't? How about if you sell me both, and I only use his lantern to charge his ring?"

"That's… Something I could agree to. But how could I trust you?"

I grin.

"Are you in the market for a sidekick?"

 

[Queshire]

Pffffft..... well hey, at least this time he'll fit whatever version of the Team that gets set up.