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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Ngamer11 said:
Only Paul would suggest using the Dreaming as a pathway for interstellar travel. Exactly what was John Quinn reacting to? The fact that Paul thought of something like that, or the fact that Paul offhandedly mentioned the possibility of using Hell as an interstellar pathway if needed?
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I think he reacted like that because of Paul's desire to use it to travel through space.

Ngamer11 said:
I think that the two are on par in terms of raw magical might. It's just that as the owner of the Tower of Fate, John Quinn has a lot of objects lying around that could help. Especially since Dr. Mist spent most of his time meditating instead of travelling and gathering artifacts of various degrees of power.
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I'll have to disagree here.

While Dr Mist is undoubtedly an extremely powerful sorcerer the Helmet gives Quinn a great deal of power that a non Lord of Order/Chaos probably can't channel, so in terms of raw might John beats Mist, at least when he has the Helmet.

Dr Mist may still be more skilled than him however, seeing as he's 11.000 years old and has had time to become skillful and knowledgeable ina shit ton of magic traditions.
 
This story has been going on for so long i cant actually remember... Did we ever fins out what happened to constantine after the fight with nabu?
 
The change time trapper Paul imposed on time travel mechanics involved tapping on the Dreaming, right?

What are the chances Dream of the endless is a little pissed at Paul for the extra work he may be getting?

Question, do the different multiverses in DC each have a different set of endless, or are they a single set that oversees everything? Or are they a single entity that have a different avatar for each multiverse?
 
Darko said:
I think he reacted like that because of Paul's desire to use it to travel through space.



I'll have to disagree here.

While Dr Mist is undoubtedly an extremely powerful sorcerer the Helmet gives Quinn a great deal of power that a non Lord of Order/Chaos probably can't channel, so in terms of raw might John beats Mist, at least when he has the Helmet.

Dr Mist may still be more skilled than him however, seeing as he's 11.000 years old and has had time to become skillful and knowledgeable ina shit ton of magic traditions.
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Mist's immortality and mojo came from the Pillar of Life, considering Zoat made Mist Life Enlightened, the natural assumption is that he basically mainlined the White Light Entity.

Assuming he isn't still connected to the White Light Entity enough to draw power from it as the Lords do Chaos and Order, he still took enough of a charge to last him the last 11 thousand years.

So it's possible that Mist has enough of a reservoir that the infinitely renewable mojo of a Lord might be more of an advantage on paper than in practicality.

Since Zoat doesn't seem to be using the "legitimately immortal and does have genuine magic powers, but is actually a fraud using showmanship to pretend immense magical power ala the Wizard of Oz" version.
 
Chaoswind said:
Question, do the different multiverses in DC each have a different set of endless, or are they a single set that oversees everything? Or are they a single entity that have a different avatar for each multiverse?
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I'm pretty sure there's one set of Endless period. No duplicates, and no avatars.

Even more so than Darkseid, the Endless are.
 
Stsword said:
Mist's immortality and mojo came from the Pillar of Life, considering Zoat made Mist Life Enlightened, the natural assumption is that he basically mainlined the White Light Entity.

Assuming he isn't still connected to the White Light Entity enough to draw power from it as the Lords do Chaos and Order, he still took enough of a charge to last him the last 11 thousand years.

So it's possible that Mist has enough of a reservoir that the infinitely renewable mojo of a Lord might be more of an advantage on paper than in practicality.

Since Zoat doesn't seem to be using the "legitimately immortal and does have genuine magic powers, but is actually a fraud using showmanship to pretend immense magical power ala the Wizard of Oz" version.
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He didn't merge with the Entity, or took any charge with him.

All he apparently did was alter his soul after watching how the Entity worked.

Mr Zoat said:
It didn't grant him anything. He was changed by seeing it and mimicking some small part of how it worked.
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BR549 said:
I'm pretty sure there's one set of Endless period. No duplicates, and no avatars.

Even more so than Darkseid, the Endless are.
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In with case Time Trapper Paul changes to temporal mechanics have increased their work load exponentially as time line divergences produce new universes... Yeah the endless may not be that happy with Paul, even more so because the energy needed to create these new multiverses comes from the Dreaming... Or at least that was my understanding of the whole situation.
 
Let's hope that Kori doesn't somehow end up dating Dream.

She doesn't deserve to deal with the shit he tends to bring to a relationship, or deal with his family.

She is already related to Kom, she doesn't need anymore crazy relatives.

Well Death may be a nice friend.
 
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What exactly is the relationship between various dream deities and Morpheus? Are they all subordinate to him or are they competition or what? For all we know he might've summoned Melinoe to talk about those TPS reports she failed to file properly or sent her for coffee and doughnuts or something equally innocuous...
 
BR549 said:
I'm pretty sure there's one set of Endless period. No duplicates, and no avatars.

Even more so than Darkseid, the Endless are.
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Destruction- "The Endless are merely patterns. The Endless are ideas. The Endless are wave functions. The Endless are repeating motifs. The Endless are echoes of darkness, and nothing more... And even our existences are brief and bounded. None of us will last longer than this version of the Universe." Sandman 48

Shown in Books of Magic, in which Mr E and Tim Hunter go to the end of the universe, and witness Death claiming the last living being, her brother Destiny.

595212-photo1.jpg


Now post flashpoint, in the comics that don't exist, Endless reside in the Sphere of the Gods which is multiversal....
 
Morpheus appears, glances around, and begins, "State your business."
"We lost a goddess of nightmares in a giant telepathic dream-eating starfish related incident. We were hoping you might know--"
"That thing's here?! Why would you--"
Morpheus suddenly fuzzes out, and looks down at his hand in a panic, then disappears.
"Well, shit. Two for two."
 
Agent Orange said:
What exactly is the relationship between various dream deities and Morpheus? Are they all subordinate to him or are they competition or what? For all we know he might've summoned Melinoe to talk about those TPS reports she failed to file properly or sent her for coffee and doughnuts or something equally innocuous...
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In the comics he was shown as being those dream gods.

Here they may have a closer relationship with him compared to a god whose domain isn't sleeping or dreaming.
 
Siskulous said:
Is it just me, or shouldn't this always be the first, and obvious, resort when you need a favor from a non-hostile god or god-like entity?
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I believe it's called 'common sense'. It's rare IRL but is practically a myth in comicbook verses. Not even SI characters retain it for very long (case in point).
 
Agent Orange said:
I believe it's called 'common sense'. It's rare IRL but is practically a myth in comicbook verses. Not even SI characters retain it for very long (case in point).
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Well except Common Sense Paul.

I still stand by my idea of him becoming the New God of Common Sense.

Darkseid will not be able to stand against him.
 
Something to keep in mind with the original spell that John Dee used to imprison Dream; it's implied that it really wasn't anything special (I think Dream calls it a half-penny spell or hedge magic), it's just that, as Sandman: Overture showed, Dream had just finished rebuilding the universe or something close to it, so he was just super weak at that exact moment (or since time is/was a bit convoluted, the spell may have targeted him at the only possible time he would be susceptible, I'm not sure). A fully restored Dream post-Preludes and Nocturnes probably wouldn't be caught like that, even if Paragon did remember the exact spell-circle.

Of course, Overture might have been a bit of a retcon (not including the in-universe retcon that Dream performed) since he does seem to find it somewhat credible that Dee's cult could have captured Death, since he tries discussing that with her when she first shows up in the series.
 
Siskulous said:
Is it just me, or shouldn't this always be the first, and obvious, resort when you need a favor from a non-hostile god or god-like entity?
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It's especially important with Dream because he was just bound for something like seventy odd years and is probably one of the most wrathful of the Endless.

Kinda a toss up between him and Desire.

So yeah, kinda want to walk on eggshells when summoning Dream.
 
Darko said:
Even if it true that he doesn't perfectly remember everything before he got his ring, there is still the possibility that he remembers what was done to Dream in the comics.
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Sandman 1989 Issue 1.

The summoning spell has ingredients and text, the actual binding circle on the other hand is incomplete due to boxing and what squiggles are shown are almost completely unreadable.

So while he might remember what was done to Dream, it's literally impossible that he remembers how to recreate the binding circle, since that was never actually shown.
 
Vaermina said:
Sandman 1989 Issue 1.

The summoning spell has ingredients and text, the actual binding circle on the other hand is incomplete due to boxing and what squiggles are shown are almost completely unreadable.

So while he might remember what was done to Dream, it's literally impossible that he remembers how to recreate the binding circle, since that was never actually shown.
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Did he not have Hinon take a look at it? A Controller? You're telling me they got nothing out of that? Really?
 
Darko said:
He didn't merge with the Entity, or took any charge with him.

All he apparently did was alter his soul after watching how the Entity worked.
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Gaining magic power from the pillar of life was the point of Dr Mist, he was a muggle before he entered it.

He's based on the story of She, about adventurers discovering "She Who Must Be Obeyed," who gained immortality and magical beauty from bathing in the Pillar of Life in the lost African Empire of Kor. She was played by Ursala Andress in the '65 movie and co-starring Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee.

Revealed to be a priestess of Isis who fell in love with a Greek mercenary, and was tutored by an Egyptian priest who was the guardian of the Pillar of Life (so read probably Dr Mist in a past identity) in one of the book sequels.

A Dr Mist who had to study like everyone else is kind of a like an alt Superman who doesn't have any superpowers so built an Iron Man-esque supersuit out of his lifepod. I mean, sure it works, but it's weird.
 
Stsword said:
Gaining magic power from the pillar of life was the point of Dr Mist, he was a muggle before he entered it.

He's based on the story of She, about adventurers discovering "She Who Must Be Obeyed," who gained immortality and magical beauty from bathing in the Pillar of Life in the lost African Empire of Kor. She was played by Ursala Andress in the '65 movie and co-starring Peter Cushing and Christopher Lee.

Revealed to be a priestess of Isis who fell in love with a Greek mercenary, and was tutored by an Egyptian priest who was the guardian of the Pillar of Life (so read probably Dr Mist in a past identity) in one of the book sequels.

A Dr Mist who had to study like everyone else is kind of a like an alt Superman who doesn't have any superpowers so built an Iron Man-esque supersuit out of his lifepod. I mean, sure it works, but it's weird.
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Ok, that's interesting to know, but if you were trying to say that the Dr Mist in this story got all his power from the Pillar, then that's not true.

When he examined that cultist with the Anti Life like abilities he told Batman and Paul that he was a magician even before he became immortal.

In the comics he may have gotten all his power from the Pillar, but here all he did was alter his soul to become immortal.

Still it would be interesting if this book exists in Earth 16, or the mainline DC universe, and Mist was an inspiration for it.
 
A Week in the Life of (part 12)
  • Threadmarks
    • 15th April
    06:28 GMT -5

    "That was a bit quick?"

    John shrugs. "With demons you have to take your time, because if you make a mess of the binding then at best they kill you. But since we're not trying to bind Morpheus -just get his attention- it doesn't really matter."

    I look the diagram over, applying my apprentice-level comprehension of magic ritual to what he's doing. Looks.. like a.. bound evocation without the focus circle this sort of ritual usually has.

    "You haven't filled the spaces for active or passive links. Do you need me to get something?"

    "A piece of the Mother Star should do."

    "Any piece in particular?"

    "If she touched a piece, that piece. Otherwise, no."

    I nod and

    step out,

    reappearing in the physical universe on the skin of the Mother Star. The perspective of the starfish landscape and non-horizon throws me off for a moment, but then I look down and ignore it, cutting through the covering of rock and ice with an x-ionised knife to get at the flesh beneath. The size of it means that it's not practical for me to cut any singular part off, but a lump of meat should do it. Yeah, that looks fine.

    I

    reappear in the tower and hold it out to him.

    "Anything else?"

    He waves his right hand and a faint red.. disk forms under the meat and then floats it over to its position in the diagram.

    "Do you have anything she owns?"

    "Yes."

    Zagreus pulls a.. photograph out of one of his pockets, steps forward and lays it face down in the diagram.

    "Right then. That'll do for Melinoë, now for the dream."

    He carefully opens the box containing… Not a lot of dream powder, and taps the tiniest portion into a pestle in which he's crushed some flowers and seeds. He then carries it into the centre of the ritual space.

    "Any of you know anything about lucid dreaming?"

    "I know I've never really done it."

    Koriand'r shakes her head while Zagreus shrugs. "Gods don't dream in quite the same way that mortals do. My experience isn't relevant."

    "Alright, well, make yourselves comfortable anyway."

    I sit down, crossing my legs. Koriand'r copies me, while Zagreus stands at parade rest. John shrugs, then clicks his right middle finger against his right thumb, using sympathetic resonance to ignite the bowl. There's a puff of relatively normal smoke, then it… Becomes decidedly abnormal. It's.. twinkling, and there's a… Depth to the cloud that it clearly shouldn't have. It flows outward, almost reaching for John, Zagreus-. And Koriand'r. But apparently ignoring me.

    Ah.

    I don't want to mess this up because this ritual doesn't interact with my wards very well. I drop down my environmental shield and lean into the miasma as it flows past me. A… Slightly woody smell

    which… Oh, I… See. I

    blink and I'm almost completely back into the room. It's… Like I'm looking at their full emotional association network and… It takes me a moment to recognise what's happening now and what's past or imagined. Ordinarily I'd try to pull back, but I suppose-.

    I look at myself as.. the room falls away slightly. It's still there, but it's less… Relevant. I'm… Larger, glowing with the orange light and for a disturbing moment I'm not sure whether I'm looking though the Ophidian's eyes or my own.

    In Koriand'r I/we we see her think about/relive a training session on Okaara, an armoured figure serving as a sparring partner for her class. John sits at the feet of a master of some mystic art, listening keenly to his words. Zagreus guides an indistinct figure through a dense forest while I…

    No. Wait.

    The fighter turns to us. / The mystic turns to us. / The explorer turns to us.

    "I see what my brother/sister found interesting about you. In the world yet not entirely part of it."

    "Lord Dream." / "Morpheus"

    The fighter is watching the class run through katas while talking to us. / The mystic holds the jewel up to John's eyes. / The explorer offers a flask to us.

    "Why do you seek me?"

    "We appear to have mislaid Melinoë in your realm, and were hopeful that you could find her and return her to us."

    "Yes, her sudden presence could be… Disruptive. Do you offer anything for her safe return?"

    "What do you want?"

    The fighter shows Koriand'r how to dismantle and clean a gun. / The mystic passes a scroll to us. / The explorer extends a rope down to us.

    "There is something that you can do for me. During the period in which I was trapped on Earth, there was a man who made an unusual connection to my realm. He used his prophetic abilities to hunt criminals and named himself after me."

    "Wesley Dodds."

    Dead of a stroke over a decade ago. Alan's spoken to me about him a few times.

    "It has been brought to my attention that I do not always reward good service as I should. Wesley Dodds is now dead, but in his memory I would see some unfinished business attended to."

    "I'd be happy to do that anyway. What's the job?"

    "Wesley Dodds was unable to restore his adopted son Sanderson Hawkins to full health. Find him, and complete his work."

    …

    I/we wasn't/weren't sure if that happened here. "I/we already looked for him."

    "You have more resources and allies to draw upon now than you did then."

    "Okay, if… You're telling me that he's definitely still around… I'll get right on it."

    The fighter strikes us and Koriand'r both, sending us tumbling to the floor. / The mystic exhales a pink mist. / The explorer pulls a lever and closes a stone door on us.

    And I snap awake, the mist gone and my colleagues pulling themselves upright.
     
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