With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[NightmareWarden]

This Paul is cool in a different way than the paragon and renegade protagonists. I assume some of Mr Zoat's personality was overshadowed by avarice-insanity and apotheosis respectively so it feels like we're seeing a bit more of the original Paul. Specifically one that is "in his element" given his skills in business and economics.

I reckon this Paul is going to integrate cybernetics into his body eventually, in spite of all the options within reach. It remains to be seen whether he will go the minimalist route of Mercy (Luthor's bodyguard) or a cyborg procedure like Metallo.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'be an admission'

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Thank you, corrected.

Well one version of Peter is a tyrannical rapist and a version of Lord is a paranoid murderer, so not that far behind actually.

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Murderist, not rapist.

maybe 'cameras'

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Thank you, corrected.

The League may have more trouble if Peter makes CADMUS a bit more competent in this universe.

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And less if he makes them less evil.

Zoat are we going to see another Earth 12 chapter tomorrow?
Is ther next episode going to be renegade focused?

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Yes to both.

GREEN ARROW: For the Love of GOD, get him his ring back before he makes things WORSE! He's already buying out my company!

FLASH: WE'RE WORKING ON IT, OKAY?!

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At this point Green Arrow has already sold his company and is solely focused on superheroing. Peter could buy it, but there isn't really anything special about it.

I reckon this Paul is going to integrate cybernetics into his body eventually, in spite of all the options within reach. It remains to be seen whether he will go the minimalist route of Mercy (Luthor's bodyguard) or a cyborg procedure like Metallo.

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Mercy 12 doesn't have cybernetics and Corbin hates his body.

 

[Darko]

Actually Cadmus is a Brainiac front via Luthor, so Peter is also dealing with an alien invasion, he just doesn't know it.

Yeah, Cadmus is like a Russian nesting doll of rot. Look inside, and oh look, their board of directors is almost a supervillain group. Look after that and oh look, Luthor is playing them. Then the layer after that and it's a Brainiac plot.

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Assuming they actually let Luthor on this version of Cadmus.

They already have a rich guy with a grudge against the League, and this one is much more sane.

Murderist, not rapist.

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He'll always be both in my heart and thoughts.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

Murderist, not rapist.

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Ah, personality death and the new person is perfectly willing to consent. Disgusting, but I can see the logic in not calling such an act rape.

 

[Darko]

Ah, personality death and the new person is perfectly willing to consent. Disgusting, but I can see the logic in not calling such an act rape.

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And I can hope one of the other versions of Paul kills him.

If not that then give him the same treatment Melmoth got.

 

[Ngamer11]

And I can hope one of the other versions of Paul kills him.

If not that then give him the same treatment Melmoth got.

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That won't happen. There will always be realities where the people we consider the bad guys win. This just happens to be one where the bad guy is Paul.

 

[Darko]

That won't happen. There will always be realities where the people we consider the bad guys win. This just happens to be one where the bad guy is Paul.

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But I can still hope that that version of Paul is either killed or altered.

 

[Breadnaught]

A decidedly unfun part of British law which allows the muzzling of all UK-based media outlets for the duration of a trial. If this was from anyone other than Batman I'd assume that it was a stupid move made in a panic; it would basically be an admission that I'm right in identifying him as 'Batman'. I was expecting some sort of public holographic appearance, or having Mr. Kent wear his costume while he was publically elsewhere. Something to undermine my claim.

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That might undermine your claim to the court, or to the general public. But not to the people - supervillains and reforming-supervillains - who actually know you and know your word is reliable. So a legal gag-order to keep you fro spreading the word to them is probably the best option he has, while keeping this within legal channels.

Heh, when you decide to challenge them like a normal person - removing heroic face punching from the table - they're a lot more limited in their response.

 

[Darko]

That might undermine your claim to the court, or to the general public. But not to the people - supervillains and reforming-supervillains - who actually know you and know your word is reliable. So a legal gag-order to keep you fro spreading the word to them is probably the best option he has, while keeping this within legal channels.

Heh, when you decide to challenge them like a normal person - removing heroic face punching from the table - they're a lot more limited in their response.

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He might not have told his employees about the legal action he's taking in case some of them decided that they liked revenge better than reforming.

If they tried to attack the League over this then it's possible for his company to be shut down or put under investigation because they suspect he ordered his employees to attack.

 

[Breadnaught]

He might not have told his employees about the legal action he's taking in case some of them decided that they liked revenge better than reforming.

If they tried to attack the League over this then it's possible for his company to be shut down or put under investigation because they suspect he ordered his employees to attack.

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Which is probably part of the reason for the super injunction to legally gag him. If he just released the information in to the public domain one way or another, then it's out of his hands.

Random Guy #287 has no legal obligation to keep Batman's civilian identity a secret and can freely post it on the internet, or release it to the press. Whatever. And really couldn't be held legally accountable in any meaningful way unless they took a direct hand in the fallout.

But now Peter is legally required to keep the secret, as long as the injunction lasts, meaning him blabbing and leading to any sort of attack on Bruce Wayne removes a lot of his legal protections preventing the League from running roughshod over him.

 

[Prince Charon]

But now Peter is legally required to keep the secret, as long as the injunction lasts, meaning him blabbing and leading to any sort of attack on Bruce Wayne removes a lot of his legal protections preventing the League from running roughshod over him.

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That depends on what exactly the injunction covers.

I mean, I could serve Batman as Batman. He's testified in court with his mask on before so that's not an issue. But that threat was supposed to be my leverage. I don't want to blow his secret identity. I want the ring back. All that injunction does is make it harder for me to bring non-nuclear pressure to bear.

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Depending on what Zoat means by the bold bit, Peter might not be legally barred from releasing anyone's secret identities.

 

[Darko]

That depends on what exactly the injunction covers.


Depending on what Zoat means by the bold bit, Peter might not be legally barred from releasing anyone's secret identities.

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You might have a point there.

After all I'm pretty sure that revealing their secret identities is a nuclear option and the injunction apparently just makes it difficult to bring the non nuclear options.

 

[Tzeentch]

At this point Green Arrow has already sold his company and is solely focused on superheroing. Peter could buy it, but there isn't really anything special about it.

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Fair enough, I suppose there's always Ted Kord's Michael Holt's businesses, not to mention Bruce's.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Fair enough, I suppose there's always Ted Kord's Michael Holt's businesses, not to mention Bruce's.

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I'm not exactly sure how Bruce lost control of Wayne Enterprised by the time of Batman of the Future, but he's still a substantial shareholder and not as off his game as his future self.

 

[DrThoth]

And I can hope one of the other versions of Paul kills him.

If not that then give him the same treatment Melmoth got.

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Would Tangseid's super-advanced soul rune-matrix/whatever help him successfully resist Paragon's orange light manipulation? I don't think the former merged with the Ophidian or anything, so if she's in play Paragon could possibly overpower him.

If there's a post detailing the specific effects of Tangseid's soul-structure, I must have missed it.

 

[Darko]

Would Tangseid's super-advanced soul rune-matrix/whatever help him successfully resist Paragon's orange light manipulation? I don't think the former merged with the Ophidian or anything, so if she's in play Paragon could possibly overpower him.

If there's a post detailing the specific effects of Tangseid's soul-structure, I must have missed it.

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He has some immunity to magic, like when Circe tested some order magic on him and it dissipated, but I'm sure that someone on Paul's level can get around that.

If not there's always the killing option.

 

[Agent Orange]

I'm not exactly sure how Bruce lost control of Wayne Enterprised by the time of Batman of the Future,

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Maybe a version of that accountant from the Dark Knight Rises went ahead with his 'genius plan' despite Lucius Fox's warning?

 

[Darko]

I'm not exactly sure how Bruce lost control of Wayne Enterprised by the time of Batman of the Future, but he's still a substantial shareholder and not as off his game as his future self.

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If he focused more on superheroics then it's possible that someone was eventually able to takeover the company and it eventually ended up in the hands of Powers.

Bruce was also old by then so maybe his board of directors decided to give it to someone younger.

 

[GhostKing 666]

I'm not exactly sure how Bruce lost control of Wayne Enterprised by the time of Batman of the Future, but he's still a substantial shareholder and not as off his game as his future self.

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Bruce doesn't loose control until way in the future. When he "retired" it was in 2019, and there was a news clip in the background showing that Bruce had just fought off an attempted takeover of his company by Derek Powers of Powers Technology, with Power's vowing that "he was not through yet".

While there is no information on when Wayne Industries became Wayne-Powers, without being Batman taking up Bruce's time, I would expect that he'd be able to keep total control of his company for a good 10-15 more years before old age and a lifetime of bitterness and regrets wore him down enough for Powers to get what he wanted. Even afterwards, Bruce was still a major shareholder with influence with the Board that Powers couldn't just get rid of(at least not in a way that implicated himself).

 

[PJCG]

He has some immunity to magic, like when Circe tested some order magic on him and it dissipated, but I'm sure that someone on Paul's level can get around that.

If not there's always the killing option.

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I'm confused, are we taking of the OL that devours demons for avarice energy and mind controlled the Justice League (I think he mentioned strapping Wonder Woman to an OL power battery too)?

 

[Darko]

I'm confused, are we taking of the OL that devours demons for avarice energy and mind controlled the Justice League (I think he mentioned strapping Wonder Woman to an OL power battery too)?

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No I was talking about Tangseid, an evil version of Paul that mind controls people and did that to Wonder Woman.

He's a version of OL that took a serum that made him evil and most likely has a Lantern, or at least uses the CPB.

Sybarite is the version that eats demons for power and doesn't have a Lantern.

From everything we've seen so far of him the worst that can be said is that he's very perverted, but otherwise he's a decent guy and lacks the need to mind control other people that Tangseid has.

For example he tried to negotiate with Diana for the purple healing ray instead of mind controlling her, and he was willing to break off the sexual relationship he has with Roulette if she wanted to because he was uncomfortable with her thinking she needed to fuck him to keep her job.

 

[Stsword]

Assuming they actually let Luthor on this version of Cadmus.

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Batman tasked the Question to find the connection between Luthor and Cadmus in September 2004.

The Ultimen were not only created as an army to physically fight the League, but as PR tools to discredit the League, which was Luthor's agenda since his pardon.

Even though Luthor's involvement wasn't demonstrated until June when Question tried to kill Luthor in the cartoon, a few months away, all evidence points to Luthor always had his hand in that cookie jar.

 

[Darko]

Batman tasked the Question to find the connection between Luthor and Cadmus in September 2004.

The Ultimen were not only created as an army to physically fight the League, but as PR tools to discredit the League, which was Luthor's agenda since his pardon.

Even though Luthor's involvement wasn't demonstrated until June when Question tried to kill Luthor in the cartoon, a few months away, all evidence points to Luthor always had his hand in that cookie jar.

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Possible, but there's nothing stopping a non Luthor Cadmus from deciding to discredit the League themselves.

They were essentially made to curtail the power the League had and may have thought the Ultimen were a good way to do that.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I'm not exactly sure how Bruce lost control of Wayne Enterprised by the time of Batman of the Future, but he's still a substantial shareholder and not as off his game as his future self.

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In Batman Beyond (Batman of the Future, as titled on this side of the pond) Wayne Enterprises had some merger with Powers Industries, creating Wayne-Powers. This likely was at some point around when Lucius Fox left the company to found his own, Foxtecha, which shows up now and then in the background, with Old Bruce stating that he still looks out for the Fox family and their company.

No real explanation on why the company needed a merger, or was forced into it. The new DCAU comics for Batman that are coming out are covering some of the gaps in the time line, with their introduction to jason todd for example. If I was to hazard a guess, once batman retired, and stepped back from the superhero AND playboy millionaire life, that something happened company wise, possibly due to the news about funds siphoned off to pay for his hobby coming out, and they removed him from a leadership role. A bit like a more successful version of what happened in the first Nolan movie with the board.

 

[Darko]

In Batman Beyond (Batman of the Future, as titled on this side of the pond) Wayne Enterprises had some merger with Powers Industries, creating Wayne-Powers. This likely was at some point around when Lucius Fox left the company to found his own, Foxtecha, which shows up now and then in the background, with Old Bruce stating that he still looks out for the Fox family and their company.

No real explanation on why the company needed a merger, or was forced into it. The new DCAU comics for Batman that are coming out are covering some of the gaps in the time line, with their introduction to jason todd for example. If I was to hazard a guess, once batman retired, and stepped back from the superhero AND playboy millionaire life, that something happened company wise, possibly due to the news about funds siphoned off to pay for his hobby coming out, and they removed him from a leadership role. A bit like a more successful version of what happened in the first Nolan movie with the board.

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I don't think they ever discovered about his life as Batman.

It's more likely he just started caring less and less after becoming more jaded over the years, and his board may have decided to vote him out due to his age.

 

[Gantradies]

Honestly, I have to admire how patient !CSPaul/Peter is being- I'd have outed Bruce in a heartbeat, bare minimum,in his place-
i mean, he literally has the money/tech to make a new identity/body and leg it so it's not like it's be setting him up to be lynched- and I get the feeling this version of the league needs a VERY pointed reminder they're not above the law- they all went along with the whole bloody thing, and I'm a great believe in reaping what you sow- it'd simply be their personalised idiot tax for not forcing their pet paranoiac to stand down...


... I mean, given that one of Wayne's alternate selves tried to destroy the entire multiverse, and one of his near-alternates created a global surveillance system that went self aware and contributed to a multi-universe apocalypse, and another iteration of the same cyborg-murderraped the entire planetary population, under the same logic he used to justify robbing an innocent man....
well, it's only the careful thing to do to destroy his ability to do any of the above, right? Can't be to careful, he's literally the same man and can't be trusted, right?

 

[Darko]

Honestly, I have to admire how patient !CSPaul/Peter is being- I'd have outed Bruce in a heartbeat, bare minimum,in his place-
i mean, he literally has the money/tech to make a new identity/body and leg it so it's not like it's be setting him up to be lynched- and I get the feeling this version of the league needs a VERY pointed reminder they're not above the law- they all went along with the whole bloody thing, and I'm a great believe in reaping what you sow- it'd simply be their personalised idiot tax for not forcing their pet paranoiac to stand down...


... I mean, given that one of Wayne's alternate selves tried to destroy the entire multiverse, and one of his near-alternates created a global surveillance system that went self aware and contributed to a multi-universe apocalypse, and another iteration of the same cyborg-murderraped the entire planetary population, under the same logic he used to justify robbing an innocent man....
well, it's only the careful thing to do to destroy his ability to do any of the above, right? Can't be to careful, he's literally the same man and can't be trusted, right?

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Peters contribution to Cadmus may be the thing that does the League in.

Though I'm pretty sure that instead of launching attacks against them he's going to help make Cadmus a highly competent organisation that replaces the League.

Now I know that the one that tried to destroy the multiverse was Owlman, but not who the others are.

Was that cyborg one of the Batmen that was recruited by the Batman Who Laughs?

Who was that surveillance one?

 

[Gantradies]

Peters contribution to Cadmus may be the thing that does the League in.

Though I'm pretty sure that instead of launching attacks against them he's going to help make Cadmus a highly competent organisation that replaces the League.

Now I know that the one that tried to destroy the multiverse was Owlman, but not who the others are.

Was that cyborg one of the Batmen that was recruited by the Batman Who Laughs?

Who was that surveillance one?

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the brother eye stuff- one version in one of the crisis events,
another in a special/event linkara reviewed a while back-
the local brother eye incarnation went full "murder/concert the entire planetary population into cyborgs"

basically, by the logic/events Bruce is probably using internally to justify his paranoia (and not getting treatment for it), he should be unmasked/imprisoned/killed, as multiple of his alternate selves have actively tried to murder the entire population of the multiverse out of existential pique (owlman, I think), or have set up/accidentally facilitated a planetary extinction event...


.. i guess my core concern is that a founding member of this incarnation of the league abused league resources/equipment to rob an innocent man of a literally irreplaceable, priceless item-one that posed no active threat, and sent it off to be destroyed/impounded indefinitely- and nobody in the league acted to stop him- or as much as apologized to peter before he bluntly told them he knew he'd been robbed, and he was intending to file a suit-
and Wayne's response? cheerfully abuse his wealth and position to try and stiffle the lawsuit, relying on Peter's reluctance to unmask him to try and make his problems go away without admitting he'd done anything wrong! he could hardly have made himself look WORSE if/when the full story goes out if he TRIED!

it...doesnt paint a good picture of their morality-and we've already seen another parallel where the local league degenerated into authoritarian insanity and took over the entire planet...

 

[Mr Zoat]

Earth 12
12th February 2005
14:16 GMT -5

"General!"

A bald man in dress uniform turns away from the buffet table as Max leads me closer, smiling broadly. The.. General manages a small smile back after a moment to warm up.

"Lord. And…" I get a quick threat assessment. "Mister..?"

"General Eiling, Peter Wynne. Peter, this is General Eiling. He's in charge-"

For a fraction of a second General Eiling's face hardens and his eyes narrow.

"-of America's exotic weapons development program, under Project Cadmus."

I offer him my right hand. "Pleased to meet you."

He grasps it firmly and gives me one quick shake. "You're the power guy, right?"

"That is my biggest and most profitable project, yes. Though I'm not sure it's my most significant."

"Tell that to every oil producer in South America. Hell, every oil producer in the Middle East. Your work's made a massive improvement to our fuel security. It's even shored up our position in Europe since demand for Russian gas fell off a cliff."

I nod. "I was aware that it had an impact."

"It's made the strategic situation a hell of a lot simpler." He thinks for a moment. "I still can't work out why you won't sell to us directly."

"I'm.. pretty sure that I'm supplying the US military with power."

"No, not that. A cosmic converter powered plane or tank would outperform anything on the market. It'd make you billions-. Even more billions, and ensure US dominance for the rest of the century."

"Well, the US-."

"Fine, NATO then. I don't mind selling to our allies."

"I'm not doing it because I promised Doctor Knight that I wouldn't. The patent's publically available, so other than collecting a fee we can't stop other people developing that sort of thing for you."

"Sure, and Luthor's already put a proposal together. But his people are starting from nothing. You're the one with all of Knight's records and I know he didn't just use the cosmic converter for making power."

"Doctor Knight spent time in a asylum after working on the Manhattan Project, because the guilt of getting so many people killed was too much for him. I.. get the impression that you'd be fine with it-"

"Only mistake we made there was not nuking Russia when we had the chance."

"-but he wasn't and I feel obliged to respect his wishes."

He visibly swallows his distaste. "Alright, but what about all of the other weapons your employees built?"

"I'm… I really don't think that encouraging them to be violent is a good idea for anyone. It's a bit of a 'lunatics running the asylum' situation."

"And everything else?"

"Supervillains are my focus, but I don't personally have a problem making or selling weapons to.. parties I can trust not to do something stupid with them. And… Well, anyone I've got under contract has a buy-out clause and the contracts are fixed term anyway. If you like something they're making and want to hire them directly, you can. Just… Be aware of their natural inclinations. If they were inclined to work well with authority, they-."

"They wouldn't have become criminals in the first place." He frowns. "Alright, Lord, I don't get it. What's your angle? Why are we having this conversation?"

"Peter told me that he was having trouble with the Justice League."

"Oh? Is that so? What kind of trouble are we talking about?"

"They stole something from me. And I'd get it if it was something my employees built, but it was a personal possession I can't replicate. If they don't fold I'm going to end up suing them in open court, which isn't going to be much fun."

"You..? Can prove that they stole it?"

"I walked in on Batman mid-steal. But it was the middle of the night and I didn't realise that he'd actually taken it until the next morning. I also have a recording of the League founders admitting to it and telling me their motive. The only thing making my lawyers nervous is that unless the League fold I'm going to use their real names on the court papers."

"You..?" His eyes narrow for a moment. "Know their names? What, did you used to be buddies with them or something? I didn't think Wayne Technologies could be funding the whole thing."

"No. But I've got access to exotic scanners, analytic equipment and… Frankly, it isn't that hard to work out once you abandon certain preconceptions."

He's trying not to smile. He's doing pretty well. It's like his own face can't remember how to make the muscles move that way.

"You're gunna sue the Justice League?"

"What.. can I say? I believe in the rule of law. I'm.. not massively fond of vigilantes and I'm certainly not going to let them get away with robbing me."

"That's, ah… An interesting idea. I guessed you'd be more of a fan."

"Saving fifty people doesn't give you the right to murder forty nine. I don't.. think that I… I don't understand why governments aren't.. more involved in… I don't know, formalising? A relationship with what is essentially a paramilitary NGO. I mean, particularly given how many of them are American. I don't think… Law enforcement is one of those things that should be outsourced."

"Hell, I don't either. That's what Project Cadmus is all about."

I nod. "I assumed that the American military was recruiting metahumans, but I didn't think you were allowed to undertake law enforcement duties?"

"Actual soldiers can't. But we can train metahumans who are members of a civilian agency, just so long as they don't join up themselves."

"That's… Not where the Royal Flush Gang came from, is it? Because-."

"No, that shit-show was the God-damned CIA. I had to explain that had nothing to do with us to three separate congressional hearings. I treat my people properly."

"I'm glad to hear it. I-."

There's a loud knocking on the window, and we turn to see… A young man knocking on the pane with a glowing green hand. That's not John Stewart.

"Package for a 'Peter Wynne'?"

"Great." General Eiling smiles. "I've been wondering what javelin missiles do to Green Lanterns. Keep him talking while I get a squad together."

He pats me on the back and turns to leave.

"I'll… Do that." I smile apologetically to Max. "Excuse me."

I jog out of the manor's patio doors and wave down the… I'm guessing that's Kyle Rayner.

"I'm Peter Wynne." He floats closer. "What do you have for me?"

"Do you have some ID?"

I take hold of the name badge I was issued upon arrival and hold it up. He nods.

"Right, just a sec."

He reaches out with his right arm, his forearm disappearing into… A subspace pocket, and pulling out a.. ring case, which he tosses to me.

"The Guardians say they didn't realise it was stolen. Ah, sorry…"

I open the case and touch the ring… Yes, it's either the ring or a functional duplicate. I'm happy either way.

"You didn't steal it. I trust that the other local Green Lantern has had his knuckles rapped?"

"Ah… Sssomething like that."

"Thank you." I close the case and slide it into my jacket pocket. "Please express my gratitude to the Guardians and inform them that I'm happy to negotiate access to the ring, if they're still interested."

"I'll do that." He floats there for a moment. "So, ah… About suing the Justice League?"

"I think I can put that on the back-burner. For now."

 

[The Unaligned Player]

Reasonable Bobbleheads? WHAT SORCERY IS THIS?!