With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Old Knife]

I know Paul and Jade are a thing now, but I am shipping Paul/Supergirl 3!

 

[Stsword]

Right, makes sense. My first thought is the record-removing spell used by Anarky, but Oh El probably wouldn't be saying he's never seen anything like it if that was the case. Maybe The Question independently figured out something similar.

Click to shrink...

The Question is a shaman, his magic isn't like other forms of magic if Zoat is taking inspiration from that Question limited series.

That version of the Question wouldn't cast a spell that erases his records, he'd commune with the spiritual plane and ask his records to erase themselves for him.

Same effect and still magic but very different methodology.

The same way that the Congregation's So;urce based magic doesn't seem the same to him.

 

[Vaermina]

Throw that on the pile of "interesting statements Kara has made". She started being a superhero way before they did, but also she's not that old.

Click to shrink...

Kara's a Silver Age Kryptonian, meaning she has the ability to break the fourth wall.

 

[Ardy]

Kara's a Silver Age Kryptonian, meaning she has the ability to break the fourth wall.

Click to shrink...

By punching it really hard, of course. Just look at what happened with Superboy!

 

[Mr Zoat]

19th July 2013
09:55 GMT -5

Rather than… Tiles, it's a single unbroken surface. No scuff marks or accreted dust from irregular cleaning, and… It sort of merges into the wall on the periphery of the room. The furniture is.. gone, and the dimensions of the room have shifted. It's gone from a cylinder to a trapezoid, the floor area larger than the roof. The stairs upwards are.. sort of twisted and shrunk, probably still usable, but… I don't think that's a good idea.

And… I get the feeling that I'm not welcome here.

"Question, what is this in aid of?"

Check myself… Yes, it appears that I'm here physically.

"There's a non-zero chance that Superwoman will tear your lighthouse apart trying to find me."

The feeling of not being welcome intensifies, and the room seems to.. twist further, getting smaller as the door to outside widens.

"And while I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, it's extremely likely that I can brute force my way out. I want some recognition for the fact that I'm indulging you."

I fly-.

Ah. I don't fly, but instead stand up like a normal person and walk towards the door, the feeling of malevolence decreasing as I do so. Outside…

Hm.

The rural outskirts of Hub City are blurry and indistinct, the occasional building having a little more definition but still being simplified. Almost like a child's drawing, the walls, roof and windows being identifiable but any other detail being entirely omitted.

I think I know where I am.

"You've brought me into the city's mind. Let me explain why that was stupid." I start marching towards… Where the reclamation is taking place, yes, that's the best place. The area of the city that's being restored by me. "Even though on the surface denying me my exotic abilities looks like a good approach to confronting me, you're really just binding them by applying external power. Now, as a street shaman that's usually a pretty good approach; sticking a mugger into an oubliette where they can't hurt anyone or be hurt in turn is a pretty nifty technique. But it's less effective when the person you're imprisoning can interact with their environment or with magic in general and can brute force an exit if they choose to. I could interact with the city's desires and really mess around with your spell. And the city. And its inhabitants. If your use of a spell depends on the person you're using it on being a good person then you didn't need to cast it in the first place."

Oh.

"Unless I got to you too late, the Peace Agents were right, and Doctor Tetch already got to you. In which case, feel free to ignore me…" I nod. "Good plan."

I-. Ah. As I approach the outskirts of the city proper, I see a… The roads and pavements are merged into one, but there's a sort of… Shimmer? No, that's not right. Potential? Which gets stronger towards the middle. No discrete cars, but… The chance of a car-encounter. Normally that wouldn't worry me, but if I'm in a magical location what I'm looking at is more the idea of a car crash, and human bodies usually come up second best in those.

So I stick to the edges. Hm. Now, running in a city might worry people, but there should have been enough joggers for long enough that it won't build… Hah, malignity. So I increase my speed, looking around at something only a handful of people will ever see. Hah, it's like getting up close to a skybox or something.

Oh, this is going to be a problem in a couple of centuries. Less if this reality has a Jack Hawksmoor… The later version, where they gave him a massive power up. The early version where he was a human adapted for living in a city life rather than in a small hunter-gatherer community wouldn't really be relevant. Unless… Maybe I could have a word with Tyche? She isn't one of the gods that I've reached out to before, but if she's a self-interested rational agent then I'd have thought that the possibility of bringing things like this under her purview would be something that would interest her.

"I just made a plan to use this place's existence to power up one of my gods! This is why I shouldn't be left on my own to think of things!"

Ugh. Sandman. One of the few issues I read. Supposedly, normal people can take a wrong turn and end up in here for a while, until they see something that looks like a path out. But that's for a random person, and literally dropping off the edge of the world was traumatic enough for the point of view character that he… Moved to a small village somewhere? I read it a long time ago.

But if you don't abandon fire because it burned you once…

If you're a street shaman…

You could learn to step between one and the other… Not quite at will, but close to it. And… In this place, cities are only dimly aware of one another…

It wouldn't be instant travel, but if you got on a train or bus or in a car here, you could move from place to place without passing through space in the material world… Probably a good deal faster.

Ugh. And while I've been assuming that Dr. Tetch had access to a hush tube, he might just have been using this.

Some magic doesn't work properly when performed by someone under mind control, but a lot works just fine. And it's not as if I actually know Mr. Sage well enough to know whether or not he's acting out of character, particularly now.

"Can you ask someone to keep an eye on Superwoman? She.. sort of needs that."

Getting closer to the centre of the city, and the wisps are… Becoming more noticeable. Rather than just a blur, I can see bonnet, doors and headlights, and faintly hear engines, horns and the noise of rubber on tarmac. The wisps at the sides of the streets are also more solid, vague impressions of people… Not any particular person, but manifestations of 'people-ness'. I imagine that if someone was next to me that their general impression would be the same but that we would both describe different specific details.

For a moment I wonder how this could be utilised, and then I remember the issue of The Authority when the fake Doctor sold advertising space in the human collective unconscious… What could I do that people wouldn't mess up almost immediately? Well, maybe I could use the intercity train networks for improved Dolmen Gate safety?

No, that's dumb. They're already instant and strictly point to.. point. But if I could connect them to the train network-. No, because Atlanteans strongly dislike using spiritual realms like this-.

STOP

I look up at what I think is a reflection of advertising hoardings… Several reflections of advertising hoardings, each with a clearly readable depiction of the word 'stop' on them. And I think I felt it when the word appeared.

"Are you telling me to stop thinking about turning this realm into a transit hub, or stop walking?"

BOTH

It's interesting, because the words are laid out like an advertising hoarding would have them. Bold colours clearly relating to some product or other… I think that one is Coke… Not sure about the others.

"This isn't an effective way to communicate information…" I frown. "Unless this is Danny the Street or something and you can blow newspapers at me with articles which actually explain what you want."

NO

"It's annoying, you know? I'm trying to do the right thing, but I end up with this credibility gap and people who I actually agree with refuse to cooperate. I had this thing with Lex Luthor a few years ago where I begged him to switch sides and raise humanity up, and he… Didn't go for it. And now I've got you. So, what? What's this about?"

"Finding somewhere-" I turn around as The Question walks out of an alley that wasn't there a moment ago. "-to have a private conversation."

 

[Ardy]

Damn question,, I get you're doing something here but leaving him alone in the city-mind is just asking for trouble at this point. Even HE'S aware of that!

 

[Ngamer11]

STOP

I look up at what I think is a reflection of advertising hoardings… Several reflections of advertising hoardings, each with a clearly readable depiction of the word 'stop' on them. And I think I felt it when the word appeared.

"Are you telling me to stop thinking about turning this realm into a transit hub, or stop walking?"

BOTH

Click to shrink...

I think this is the point where the Question realized he may have made a mistake when he brought Paul into the mind of his city.

"This isn't an effective way to communicate information…" I frown. "Unless this is Danny the Street or something and you can blow newspapers at me with articles which actually explain what you want."

NO

"It's annoying, you know? I'm trying to do the right thing, but I end up with this credibility gap and people who I actually agree with refuse to cooperate. I had this thing with Lex Luthor a few years ago where I begged him to switch sides and raise humanity up, and he… Didn't go for it. And now I've got you. So, what? What's this about?"

"Finding somewhere-" I turn around as The Question walks out of an alley that wasn't there a moment ago. "-to have a private conversation."

Click to shrink...

I'm guessing the Question is a little surprised that Paul is just rolling with how he was communicating and showed up because it wasn't intimidating to Paul.

 

[Vaermina]

"And while I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, it's extremely likely that I can brute force my way out. I want some recognition for the fact that I'm indulging you."

I fly-.

Ah. I don't fly, but instead stand up like a normal person and walk towards the door, the feeling of malevolence decreasing as I do so. Outside…

Click to shrink...

Orange Lantern becomes such a ten year old child when someone gets one over on him.

 

[Darko]

wonder who this could

Click to shrink...

"how this"

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

19th July 2013
09:55 GMT -5

Rather than… Tiles, it's a single unbroken surface. No scuff marks or accreted dust from irregular cleaning, and… It sort of merges into the wall on the periphery of the room. The furniture is.. gone, and the dimensions of the room have shifted. It's gone from a cylinder to a trapezoid, the floor area larger than the roof. The stairs upwards are.. sort of twisted and shrunk, probably still usable, but… I don't think that's a good idea.

Click to shrink...

So, to some degree, the idealised form of itself... As rendered in a low-quality 3d model. So this is almost certainly not the real world anymore. It looks like the Question has done something dreadfully clever.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

And… I get the feeling that I'm not welcome here.

"Question, what is this in aid of?"

Click to shrink...

The question is, how easy will it to be get out?

Check myself… Yes, it appears that I'm here physically.

"There's a non-zero chance that Superwoman will tear your lighthouse apart trying to find me."

Click to shrink...

Though I'm sure she'll also be happy to rebuild it, given a good explanation.

The feeling of not being welcome intensifies, and the room seems to.. twist further, getting smaller as the door to outside widens.

"And while I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, it's extremely likely that I can brute force my way out. I want some recognition for the fact that I'm indulging you."

Click to shrink...

Certainly, unless he's completely cut off from the Honden, one greediport would let him slip free.

I fly-.

Ah. I don't fly, but instead stand up like a normal person and walk towards the door, the feeling of malevolence decreasing as I do so. Outside…

Click to shrink...

The space imposing its rules on him, or just him playing nice, I wonder...

Hm.

The rural outskirts of Hub City are blurry and indistinct, the occasional building having a little more definition but still being simplified. Almost like a child's drawing, the walls, roof and windows being identifiable but any other detail being entirely omitted.

I think I know where I am.

Click to shrink...

Ah... I remember that issue of Sandman.

"You've brought me into the city's mind. Let me explain why that was stupid." I start marching towards… Where the reclamation is taking place, yes, that's the best place. The area of the city that's being restored by me. "Even though on the surface denying me my exotic abilities looks like a good approach to confronting me, you're really just binding them by applying external power. Now, as a street shaman that's usually a pretty good approach; sticking a mugger into an oubliette where they can't hurt anyone or be hurt in turn is a pretty nifty technique. But it's less effective when the person you're imprisoning can interact with their environment or with magic in general and can brute force an exit if they choose to. I could interact with the city's desires and really mess around with your spell. And the city. And it's inhabitants. If your use of a spell depends on the person you're using it on being a good person then you didn't need to cast it in the first place."

Click to shrink...

I wonder if Hub City had an excess of Avarice and Fear in its' 'mind' and a dearth of Compassion? It would explain so much about it.

Oh.

"Unless I got to you too late, the Peace Agents where right, and Doctor Tetch already got to you. In which case, feel free to ignore me…" I nod. "Good plan."

Click to shrink...

He seemed too... Together for that.

I-. Ah. As I approach the outskirts of the city proper, I see a… The roads and pavements are merged into one, but there's a sort of… Shimmer? No, that's not right. Potential? Which gets stronger towards the middle. No discrete cars, but… The chance of a car-encounter. Normally that wouldn't worry me, but if I'm in a magical location what I'm looking at is more the idea of a car crash, and human bodies usually come up second best in those.

Click to shrink...

And not even invulnerability would help, in that case, I suspect. Not in a conceptual realm like this.

So I stick to the edges. Hm. Now, running in a city might worry people, but there should have been enough joggers for long enough that it won't build… Hah, malignity. So I increase my speed, looking around at something only a handful of people will ever see. Hah, it's like getting up close to a skybox or something.

Click to shrink...

I shudder to imagine what the immune system of this place is like. Probably like something out of a liminal space creepypasta or something...

Oh, this is going to be a problem in a couple of centuries. Less if this reality has a Jack Hawksmoor… The later version, where they gave him a massive power up. The early version where he was a human adapted for living in a city life rather than in a small hunter-gatherer community wouldn't really be relevant. Unless… Maybe I could have a word with Tyche? She isn't one of the gods that I've reached out to before, but if she's a self-interested rational agent then I'd have thought that the possibility of bringing things like this under her purview would be something that would interest her.

Click to shrink...

That is a strange concept. I did always find his visual aspect interesting, mostly the treaded soles of his feet. Makes a lot more sense for walking on concrete and asphalt... As for Tyche, that could have an interesting effect. Perhaps cities would come to worship her...

"I just made a plan to use this place's existence to power up one of my gods! This is why I shouldn't be left on my own to think of things!"

Ugh. Sandman. One of the few issues I read. Supposedly, normal people can take a wrong turn and end up in here for a while, until they see something that looks like a path out. But that's for a random person, and literally dropping off the edge of the world was traumatic enough for the point of view character that he… Moved to a small village somewhere? I read it a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

According to the summary, he was more concerned if the cities ever woke up from their dream. But given the existence of city shamans, they're already awake... Eh, dreams don't really have to make sense, do they?

But if you don't abandon fire because it burned you once…

If you're a street shaman…

You could learn to step between one and the other… Not quite at will, but close to it. And… In this place, cities are only dimly aware of one another…

Click to shrink...

Fortunately, they don't operate like other living things, breeding, fighting and dying...

It wouldn't be instant travel, but if you got on a train or bus or in a car here, you could move from place to place without passing through space in the material world… Probably a good deal faster.

Ugh. And while I've been assuming that Dr. Tetch had access to a hush tube, he might just have been using this.

Click to shrink...

...Probably a bit too complicated for that. Keep it simple, OL.

Some magic doesn't work properly when performed by someone under mind control, but a lot works just fine. And it's not as if I actually know Mr. Sage well enough to know whether or not he's acting out of character, particularly now.

"Can you ask someone to keep an eye on Superwoman? She.. sort of needs that."

Click to shrink...

...She really does need a minder, doesn't she? Too enthusiastic by half. Someone with a clicker nearby to keep her flights of fancy more grounded.

Getting closer to the centre of the city, and the wisps are… Becoming more noticeable. Rather than just a blur, I can see bonnet, doors and headlights, and faintly hear engines, horns and the noise of rubber on tarmac. The wisps at the sides of the streets are also more solid, vague impressions of people… Not any particular person, but manifestations of 'people-ness'. I imagine that if someone was next to me that their general impression would be the same but that we would both describe different specific details.

Click to shrink...

And now I picture it feeling like walking through a giant, low-resolution equivalent to Grand Theft Auto at street level rather than the overhead camera.

For a moment I wonder who this could be utilised, and then I remember the issue of The Authority when the fake Doctor sold advertising space in the human collective unconscious… What could I do that people wouldn't mess up almost immediately? Well, maybe I could use the intercity train networks for improved Dolmen Gate safety?

Click to shrink...

That was a messed up storyline, even for the Authority.

No, that's dumb. They're already instant and strictly point to.. point. But if I could connect them to the train network-. No, because Atlanteans strongly dislike using spiritual realms like this-.

STOP

Click to shrink...

Wow, he's annoyed the city itself into telling him 'stop. Just stop.'

I look up at what I think is a reflection of advertising hoardings… Several reflections of advertising hoardings, each with a clearly readable depiction of the word 'stop' on them. And I think I felt it when the word appeared.

"Are you telling me to stop thinking about turning this realm into a transit hub, or stop walking?"

Click to shrink...

I would think all of the above. Even a patient city can lose its temper...

BOTH

It's interesting, because the words are laid out like an advertising hoarding would have them. Bold colours clearly relating to some product or other… I think that one is Coke… Not sure about the others.

Click to shrink...

Funky. And if the streetscape was more realised, with actual people, he'd probably look like a loony, talking to the billboards.

"This isn't an effective way to communicate information…" I frown. "Unless this is Danny the Street or something and you can blow newspapers at me with articles which actually explain what you want."

NO

Click to shrink...

Another thing to wonder whether they exist or not.

"It's annoying, you know? I'm trying to do the right thing, but I end up with this credibility gap and people who I actually agree with refuse to cooperate. I had this thing with Lex Luthor a few years ago where I begged him to switch sides and raise humanity up, and he… Didn't go for it. And now I've got you. So, what? What's this about?"

"Finding somewhere-" I turn around as The Question walks out of an alley that wasn't there a moment ago. "-to have a private conversation."

Click to shrink...

And maybe stop trauma-dumping on the poor city, OL? It's had a hard enough life so far.

Well, I suppose it's private enough. Still, I can't help but picture it as wanting OL gone as soon as possible just to stop him imagining horrifying concepts around it. Though I have to wonder what it thinks of him rebuilding its industry, and whether that affects the character of the 'mind'... And what that suggest about places like Gotham.

 

[Mr Zoat]

"how this"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

That was a messed up storyline, even for the Authority.

Click to shrink...

And then you realise that what saw print was the censored version.

Rush really didn't deserve that in either case.

 

[Duke Long]

And the city. And it's inhabitants. If your use of a spell depends on the person you're using it on being a good person then you didn't need to cast it in the first place."

Click to shrink...

'And its inhabitants.'

"Unless I got to you too late, the Peace Agents where right, and Doctor Tetch already got to you. In which case, feel free to ignore me…" I nod. "Good plan."

Click to shrink...

'were'

Hah, malignity.

Click to shrink...

I would've said malice, but I'm glad you didn't because I've never seen this word before.

It wouldn't be instant travel, but if you got on a train or bus or in a car here, you could move from place to place without passing through space in the material world… Probably a good deal faster.

Ugh. And while I've been assuming that Dr. Tetch had access to a hush tube, he might just have been using this.

Click to shrink...

Cool! I think Tetch probably did have a hush tube (particularly given the experience of falling that Mr Chimp had) but it's a nice idea.

"Finding somewhere-" I turn around as The Question walks out of an alley that wasn't there a moment ago. "-to have a private conversation."

Click to shrink...

I was thinking this might be the case as soon as Oh El started to really complain. He was being kind of a dick.

 

[WereDragon]

"I just made a plan to use this place's existence to power up one of my gods! This is why I shouldn't be left on my own to think of things!"

Click to shrink...

Eh, high risk high reward.

"Finding somewhere-" I turn around as The Question walks out of an alley that wasn't there a moment ago. "-to have a private conversation."

Click to shrink...

Correction, finding somewhere you feel in control.
Privacy was as easy as "Orange Lantern, take us somewhere privet." and waiting a few seconds.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'And its inhabitants.'
'were'

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

I would've said malice, but I'm glad you didn't because I've never seen this word before.

Click to shrink...

It's from Discworld. Hogfather, I think. It is defined as 'the hatred of the inanimate for the animate'. Death has a device to measure it, because it lets him know when the Auditors of Reality are up to something. The device uses small pieces of toast, some butter, and small pieces of carpet.

I was thinking this might be the case as soon as Oh El started to really complain. He was being kind of a dick.

Click to shrink...

He'd regard that as hypocritical.

Correction, finding somewhere you feel in control.
Privacy was as easy as "Orange Lantern, take us somewhere privet." and waiting a few seconds.

Click to shrink...

Hedges don't really grant that much privacy, though the greenery might put everyone in a more receptive frame of mind.

 

[CTrees]

This is why I shouldn't be left on my own to think of things!"

Click to shrink...

We just found OL's epitaph

 

[Duke Long]

It's from Discworld. Hogfather, I think. It is defined as 'the hatred of the inanimate for the animate'. Death has a device to measure it, because it lets him know when the Auditors of Reality are up to something. The device uses small pieces of toast, some butter, and small pieces of carpet.

Click to shrink...

Oh, I have actually read that one. Suppose I forgot.

 

[Prince Charon]

We just found OL's epitaph

Click to shrink...

It's the sort of thing that could get meme'd if it were in the comics or the cartoon; it memorable in an in-character-for-him way like Dr. Will Magnus saying (almost triumphantly) "I told you I do crazy things without my meds!"

 

[Steelplaza]

"There's a non-zero chance that Superwoman will tear your lighthouse apart trying to find me."

Click to shrink...

So "Superwoman" is apparently going to be a thing going forward. It wasn't just a one-off to tease Kara. Amusing.

But maybe also OL's subtle way of saying, "I know you aren't really Supergirl."

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Kara's a Silver Age Kryptonian, meaning she has the ability to break the fourth wall.

Click to shrink...

Considering that Ambush Bug showed up earlier in the story, that statement makes a surprising amount of sense.

Orange Lantern becomes such a ten year old child when someone gets one over on him.

Click to shrink...

Nobody got one over on Paul, though. He still had the advantage over both The Question and The City. As he said, putting someone who has the ability to screw with people's minds inside of your mind is a monumentally stupid idea.

So "Superwoman" is apparently going to be a thing going forward. It wasn't just a one-off to tease Kara. Amusing.

But maybe also OL's subtle way of saying, "I know you aren't really Supergirl."

Click to shrink...

Um, yes she is? She got her DNA scanned, and it matched the other Kara's DNA, remember?

 

[Steelplaza]

Um, yes she is? She got her DNA scanned, and it matched the other Kara's DNA, remember?

Click to shrink...

Oh well if a DNA scan said so....

Come on now. If there is something going on, it's obviously at such a high level of reality fuckery that you're not going to pierce it with a casual scan. Heck, when you think about it, it shouldn't have matched the other Kara's DNA. The story is that this Kara is from a different universe with a different version of Kryptonians so that native-to-this-Earth kryptonite doesn't work on her, right? If her body is different enough that kryptonite doesn't work, why would the DNA be the same? (Okay, admittedly 'because comic book science' could be the answer.)

 

[Wivk]

I thought this supergirl was like the Saturday morning cartoon version or whatever and that is why she is more light hearted and naive.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I thought this supergirl was like the Saturday morning cartoon version or whatever and that is why she is more light hearted and naive.

Click to shrink...

It certainly looks that way. The issue is that she isn't in a Saturday morning cartoon setting, and certain attitudes are off-putting outside of that context. It's the difference between seeing a clown at a circus and seeing one outside your bedroom window in the middle of the night.

 

[mastermenthe]

It's the difference between seeing a clown at a circus and seeing one outside your bedroom window in the middle of the night.

Click to shrink...

Ah, so the difference between attractive, and arousing, got it.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Ah, so the difference between attractive, and arousing, got it.

Click to shrink...

Uh, menthe?

Is there somehing you'd like to tell us?

Oh well if a DNA scan said so....

Come on now. If there is something going on, it's obviously at such a high level of reality fuckery that you're not going to pierce it with a casual scan. Heck, when you think about it, it shouldn't have matched the other Kara's DNA. The story is that this Kara is from a different universe with a different version of Kryptonians so that native-to-this-Earth kryptonite doesn't work on her, right? If her body is different enough that kryptonite doesn't work, why would the DNA be the same? (Okay, admittedly 'because comic book science' could be the answer.)

Click to shrink...

What the hell kind of logic is that? What does being immune to kryptonite have to do with being immune to DNA scans? Lantern powers aren't fueled by radiation, so that shouldn't even make sense. How does Kryptonite immunity translate to "imperceivable DNA" in your head? I think you're missing a few logical steps here, buddy.

Also, did you already forget all the times when visitor/invader doppelgangers from parallel universes have shown up? The idea that this Supergirl is just an alternate version of the resident Kara isn't that far-fetched, you know. We've seen stuff like that happen before.

It certainly looks that way. The issue is that she isn't in a Saturday morning cartoon setting, and certain attitudes are off-putting outside of that context. It's the difference between seeing a clown at a circus and seeing one outside your bedroom window in the middle of the night.

Click to shrink...

So, it's like Toon Force in a cartoon versus Toon Force in real life?

 

[Mr Zoat]

So, it's like Toon Force in a cartoon versus Toon Force in real life?

Click to shrink...

I'm not sure what that is, but it sounds about right.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I'm not sure what that is, but it sounds about right.

Click to shrink...

Toon force, also known as cartoon logic, toon physics,or cartoon physics, is a narrative device used to describe the ability that cartoon characters have to perform physically impossible feats, often to break the laws of physics and reality for comedic effect. You know how in classic old cartoons like Looney Tunes, we often see characters get blown up, flattened, shot at and completely destroyed, and then just walk it off without a scratch? That's what toon force is. Toon force can allow characters to do things like shapeshift, stretch their own limbs, pull improbable objects from nowhere (known as the "hammerspace" effect), survive seemingly fatal injuries, break the fourth wall, and ignore gravity or other physical forces, with the only drawback it operates mostly on the rule of funny, meaning that it can usually only be used for comedic purposes, or at least for whatever the toon in question thinks is funny. In other words, it's the power to do basically whatever you want as long as it's funny. At first glance, that might not sound very dangerous or practical in a fight, but consider this: if toon force only works on what the user thinks is funny, then what happens when a psychotic toon thinks that inflicting pain on someone is funny? (*cough* Who Framed Roger Rabbit? *cough*)

Of course, that's not even getting into what happens when you're facing an opponent who also operates on toon force. That's when logic really flies out of the window. When two cartoon characters who have toon physics on their side get into a fight, the winner will usually be whichever toon is the most clever with the application of their abilities…or at the very least, whichever is the least stupid, because some toons tend to accidentally sabotage themselves a lot (looking at you, Wile E. Coyote).

If you want an example you're already familiar with, take Pinkie Pie. Have you noticed how in her show, she's often shown doing weird, crazy stuff that should defy the laws of physics and common sense for the sake of comedy? She can stretch impossible distances, inflate like a balloon, shake off hits that should normally kill or severely injure a regular pony, morph her mane into a drill and tunnel through the earth, run fast enough to keep up with Rainbow Dash just for kicks (and you'll notice that it's never explained how she can do that), control her own personal gravity and how the laws of physics apply to her, re-assemble herself after literally making her own body fall to pieces like it's nothing, suddenly appear and disappear out of nowhere whenever she wishes, etc…and unlike most of the other characters, her bizarre abilities aren't ever really explained by science or magic. And as Twilight demonstrated, any attempts to explain it with logic or reason are ultimately rendered futile.

Not weird enough for you? Get this: some cartoon characters are so powerful and proficient at using Toon Force that they can literally shrug off getting erased from existence and wish themselves back into reality. Take Popeye The Sailor Man, for example. In one of his cartoons, he literally got erased from existence altogether, but he came from that by somehow eating some spinach…despite the fact that he literally didn't have a mouth to eat it, teeth to chew it or a stomatch to digest it with. Yeah, try to explain that one.

The Manga/Anime equivalent of this phenomenon would be the power of Gag Manga characters like Arale Norimaki.
If you want a more direct explanation, see here:

 

[mastermenthe]

Uh, menthe?

Is there somehing you'd like to tell us?

Click to shrink...

Sure.

A clown at a circus is an attraction, you want to watch them because they attract attention within a space of established expectations at a time of your visiting.

A clown approaching your bedroom at night is forcing your attention onto them, arousing a whole spectrum of autognomic responses (fear or otherwise) as they violate the expectations of your personal established space at a time against your choosing.


Personally, I like this Kara's particular bent of inhumanity. At the circus I would gladly applaud her efforts in the purely monstrous spirit they are given. If she invaded my bedroom at night, I would invite her into my bed in a panic of confusion-fear-lust, under the assumption she is here for that sort of thing.

I bet Kara would be perfect at cuddling.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Sure.

A clown at a circus is an attraction, you want to watch them because they attract attention within a space of established expectations at a time of your visiting.

A clown approaching your bedroom at night is forcing your attention onto them, arousing a whole spectrum of autognomic responses (fear or otherwise) as they violate the expectations of your personal established space at a time against your choosing.


Personally, I like this Kara's particular bent of inhumanity. At the circus I would gladly applaud her efforts in the purely monstrous spirit they are given. If she invaded my bedroom at night, I would invite her into my bed in a panic of confusion-fear-lust, under the assumption she is here for that sort of thing.

I bet Kara would be perfect at cuddling.

Click to shrink...

Well, thank you for sharing your incredibly specific kryptonian clussy fetish with the class (now there's a sentence I'd never thought I would ever need to type on a keyboard). I have no idea how we got to this point or why on God's green Earth we're having this conversation, but regardless, I'll give you points for honesty and then maybe take them away for your questionable sanity.

Although, you do raise an interesting question: Considering how childish and innocent this Kara is, does she even know what sex is? Did she at least get the talk before she arrived on this Earth? If not, Paul might want to fix that, because she's gonna need to have that conversation sooner or later. Maybe not with him, but at least with someone else (maybe one of the other Supergirls). Just saying, she did live on an Earth where the Comics Code Authority dictated everything, so it could go either way.

 

[hkim]

Well, thank you for sharing your incredibly specific kryptonian clussy fetish with the class (now there's a sentence I'd never thought I would ever need to type on a keyboard). I have no idea how we got to this point or why on God's green Earth we're having this conversation, but regardless, I'll give you points for honesty and then maybe take them away for your questionable sanity.

Click to shrink...

My friend, you asked. Why did you ASK? The answer was obviously "yes, and I just need an excuse", and now we all have to face the consequences.

 

[Mr Zoat]

19th July 2013
A little past ten, local time.

"I mean, technically, the city can hear us, and any street shaman, Neo-Vodunist or thaumaturgist could listen in due to how modern communications technology is all-encompassing."

I look off to where my section of the city starts. Which means that we're roughly…

I look around and look at the rough shape of the office building formerly owned by the celebratorily late Jeremiah Hatch.

"Interesting choice of meeting place."

"How many advertising hoardings do you think that Hub City still has?" He walks closer, standing next to me and looking at the building. "And how long until the last of his works are dragged down?"

"Assuming that Anarky doesn't pay us another visit, about three months. Is there some reason to tear it down faster or avoid it?"

"I'm inclined to leave a few pieces of Old Hub City where they are, as a mark of continuity and a reminder of how bad things can get."

"Even Hatch didn't shit where he slept. If we just patched it up they'd say 'doesn't look that bad to me'."

"And my lighthouse?"

"I assumed that it was a listed building." I shrug. "It's in good repair, even if it isn't needed for its original purpose any longer. I've got no reason to demolish it."

I take a moment to look him over. As far as I can tell without being able to see his face, he appears to be healthy. His clothing is neat and clean… Though I think that's something pseudoderm does on its own? And I suppose that in a place like this it's perfectly possible that he's using magic to generate a 'face in a crowd' type avatar…

"But I doubt that you did this to talk about the reconstruction."

"You know what Batman is doing."

I nod. "The more I see, the less I like it. I've informed Wonder Woman of the nature of my concerns, and she's going to have a chat with him about what he's doing."

"'Who watches the watchmen?'"

"'We mostly watch each other', was the answer given by Samuel Vimes in the Discworld novel series. And when his city's ruler pressed and asked who watched him, he claimed that he watched himself too." I sigh. "League members watch each other, auxiliaries like me watch them… World leaders don't at the moment because they're too desperate… The people of the world watch them, but media organisations that might have informed them have taken a battering. I suppose that the Justice League could publish meeting minutes? But the thing is… Someone's got to make decisions, democracy isn't a panacea and there isn't anyone who could meaningfully oversee the Justice League who wouldn't be recruited as a member. I'll hear any idea you have, but I really don't think there's a simple solution to this one and 'I don't like this' isn't actionable."

"Are you aware of Batman's new space station?"

"Yes, he even brought me there to have a look around. I assume that's where the oversight A.I. is located, but I didn't see it myself."

"The A.I. partners of the 'Peace Operatives'?"

"It's an A.I.. It can almost certainly parallel process. I'd be astonished if there was more than one. It would be inefficient."

"The one strong emotional relationship that they all have, and it's with the same mind."

"A logical deduction on my part, not proven fact." I shrug. "It's the most likely thing… Second most likely would be that they're built into their belts. But… I don't think Batman's in the mood to build a distributed system."

"Not in the Hall of Justice?"

"The other League members would have noticed and commented on it. My… Experience, is that League members can ignore things that aren't an active problem as long as their faces aren't constantly being rubbed in it. But I'm hoping they've learned from last time."

"Last time?"

"Sorry, Question. If you want that level of information, you'll need to join the League."

"And so become another watchman."

"Justice League members don't get paid for being on the League, and they don't get much in the way of power. Superman wouldn't suddenly get weaker without political backing, he'd just become less efficient because he'd be less well informed." I rub my forehead. "Look, I've done my job by checking that you're alright. Unless you've got some new information about what he's doing, I'm happy to leave it at that."

The Question considers me for a moment.

"What else do you think that the belts are doing?"

"Uh… Well, it's a narrowcast system, so… They might have an effect on the area around the Operatives, but they're not really designed for that. I mean, you-." I wince slightly. "You know how big the broadcast systems were, and Apokolips wouldn't deliberately use a low quality system. A smaller version isn't going to be more effective than one powered by a fragment of Darkseid."

"But they would be more insidious."

"The disaster won't last forever, and the Peace Operatives aren't hanging around… World leaders, or something. Eventually, things will normalise."

"Or Batman's control will normalise."

"That would be a sad testament to our species' inability to govern ourselves. But… I'm increasingly coming to believe that if it gets to that point, he may as well keep it, because no one else stepped forwards when they could have." I spread out my arms. "Anything else? Or can I go back to the material world now?"

"I do have more information, but this meeting is taking place here because I do not trust the Justice League where Batman is concerned. Not at the moment. Your countermeasures are impressive, but if you wish to learn what I know then you will have to join us."

And now there's an 'us'.

"You're working with Hatter, aren't you?"

His face is blank. Doh ho ho.

"You know that he's the one with the actual global control device, yes? You're doing a watchmen watching themselves, too."

"Perhaps."

"Then, no. After that.. previous event I alluded to, I… I want to trust the League. To give my friends and mentors a chance to handle things better. So… That's what I'm going to do. And partly because what happened last time is going to stick in their minds, I honestly think they will. Either Batman will get a slap upside the head and knock it off… Or they'll deal with it. I don't know what you're planning and Doctor Tetch hasn't really demonstrated the sort of mental stability or moral probity that I look for."

"Very well." He turns and heads back down the alley. "I will simply have to hope that you are correct."

Ah.

Well, that's a shame…

"Wait, how do I get out-?"

And he and his alley are both gone.