With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[hkim]

Marines often end up in the Color Corps because they remind them of their favorite foods.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

Common Sense (part 11)

1st October 2010
17:41 GMT -6

"Alan, I have a question."

The image of his head floating over my ring nods. "Sure, go right ahead. I can work and chew gum at the same time."

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Ah, a universe where the heroes haven't learned to be wary when an OL calls them up for a chat. I suspect this is going to change that quite soon.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

With Lantern Jordan having semi-official authorisation to let Alan recharge from his personal lantern, Alan leaped at the chance to help with the vine attacks. Right now he's helping move the dying vines out of the cities where they erupted and to uninhabited places where they can be safely studied or disposed of.

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Heh. And of course, that won't take him all that much charge, so he's gonna be set for a while off that one charge.

"It's probably a bit personal to you, and I imagine that you'd rather than no one else heard. Ah, except Mister Garrick or Jack Knight, if he's there."

"Huh. Kind of a… Odd combination. I haven't spoke to Jack in… Ah, since he was a boy. Hold on a sec… There. Better?"

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Always fun when you think of an old friend's family like that. "Ah, I haven't seen him in... Way too long."

"Are you carrying a heavy object?"

"You're that-? Oh." His face becomes noticeably more solemn. "You wanna ask about Rag Doll."

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Ah, yes. The fifties-era serial killer and cult leader that several heroes chose to use lethal force against when he tried to escape after threatening their families..

"Yes."

"How'd you find out about that, anyway?"

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Power RIngs, Alan. He's not exactly familiar with their full capabilities due to having no Ring AI, but surely he knows it can sense things?

"I've got a power ring. There was organic residue that… Crime scene investigators at the time probably wouldn't have been able to detect. Ring blasts and cosmic bolts have a distinct damage pattern…" I shrug. "I was curious as to why him, rather than some of the other people you fought. But not so curious that I wanted to… Bring something like that up."

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Never underestimate what a man will do when his family is threatened...

"He told us that he was gunna use his cult to go after our families. It seems ridiculous now, but at the time a lot of people saw him as some.. kinda… Nihilistic messiah. There wasn't any way we coulda kept them safe, unless we… Locked them all in a bunker somewhere."

"No one else ever tried that?"

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Would their loved ones have wanted to live like that?

"No. Not even with Jay. I wore a mask because I thought that kinda thing would be common, but Joan hardly ever got into that kind of danger. And there aren't many criminals who target the families of police. I guess… I guess our villains were… Not… Better people, but… Less crazy about it." He frowns. "Ted told Jack?"

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It was a bit funny that Jay never actually wore a mask, just his classy Hermes cap. I suppose he could vibrate his face as speed to blur ht, though...

"Yes, when they were patching things up. I don't know.. exactly what made him bring it up. Maybe Jack killing Mist Two?"

"Huh. I guess the reason you're bringing this up is the same as the reason why all the vines dropped dead. Who was it?"

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Very astute of him. Plenty of context clues, though I wonder what he'll think of the total-kill approach?

"Clean sweep."

"Oh. Ah. Okay. Are all the kids alright?"

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Yeah, that level of destruction is something a Lantern Ring with no restrictions is very good at.

"Oh, I just brought Kaldur, and he's…" I look over to where he's using his water bearers to remove Smilex chemicals from the surrounding swamp water. Too late for quite a few swamp-living animals who have keeled over, but hopefully he can stop it spreading to the whole region. "Thinking about things."

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I mean, he's seen combat, but not destruction like this, has he?

"How old is he?"

"Sixteen. And a member of the Atlantean army, which is how I'm justifying that to myself."

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Aquaman might approve, but some of the more American members might balk at it.

"You said you were an admin guy before you came here. I guess this is the first time you've killed anyone."

"Yes." I nod. "Yes it is."

"How are you holding up?"

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Well, he was in the moral right, given their actions. Just a matter of how he's handling casually ending people like that...

"The nice thing about supervillains of their calibre is that there's no room for doubt. They definitely just murdered thousands of people, and not in the name of an ideology, but for money and fun. They were literally the most deserving people they could possibly be. I've been… I know that some people get traumatised even when it's… When it's self defence or… Whatever. I've… Sort of been waiting for it to hit me, but honestly I don't feel… Much at all about it. Needed to be done, and now it's done."

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Might be a sign of Orange Light contamination, mind. Doing what he needed to and showing minimal regrets?

"I can't argue that they had it coming, but… If you do wanna talk to someone about it, you know where I am."

"Yes. Thank you."

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Alan - best mentor.

"You told Diana yet?"

"No. Nor Batman, who is sure to be pretty angry. Or my other team mates, who are sure to be annoyed about getting left out.

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Oh, Batman is going to be apocalyptically angry. Diana at least understands that yes, sometimes she might need to wound or kill...

"You want me to..? Talk to anyone?"

"No, I can handle that myself. Thank you for the offer, though."

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Eh, he's going to be doing a lot of talking in the next few hours, methinks...

"What the Hell happened here!?"

"Who was that?"

I look up at the brilliant green glow. "Lantern Jordan. Thank you for speaking to me, but I should probably let you get back to it."

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A bit late to the party, but without lethal force, he wouldn't have been super-useful.

He nods. "You wanna get dinner later?"

"Ah, yeah, assuming that I'm not in custody. Meet up at… Ah, eight, eastern standard?"

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He's realistic but confident, I'll give him that.

"I'll see you then."

His head vanishes, and I rise up into the air to meet Lantern Jordan. "Lantern Jordan. I'm not sure this is an efficient use of your time."

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On the other hand, is Oranger Lantern went rogue, he'd probably be one of the best options the League has to take him down without invoking the oath kill-switch.

He glances at me, then returns to staring at the ruins. "Did they just..? Blow themselves up or something?"

"No, I killed them all, but this still isn't-."

His head jerks back to me. "What?"

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Not sure whether to read that as disbelief that CS!OL could manage that, or shock that he was able to do it... Perhaps both?

"It's not an efficient use of your time because the remaining vines are a threat to public health whereas-."

"You killed them."

"Yes."

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And then disintegrated their bodies, don't forget that detail.

"How?"

"Ah… Sword, railgun, missiles, constructs, and assimilation. I can actually speak Welsh now, er nad wyf yn gwybod pam y byddwn i eisiau."

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I'm guessing he said 'and without any trace of an English accent, no less...'

"Shouldn't that-. Oh."

"Oh?"

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What, Green Power Rings can't translate Welsh? Or it picked up on the intent to have it untranslated for illustration.

"Using lethal force like that outside of very specific situations makes green rings shut down. I though you had the same thing."

I shake my head. "I'm afraid not."

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And I bet Hal is feeling a little jealous now, since there's probably been times he wished he could use lethal force.

He looks over the area again. "Collateral damage?"

I shrug. "One of my railgun rounds overpenetrated and hit an alligator. It's dead. Environmental cleanup is required, but the whole area needed that anyway."

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And you don't feel motivated enough to handle it yourself. Understandable.

"Right." He nods. "You know you've got a ton of shit heading your way over this."

"I factored Batman in when I made the decision. Legally, it's an open and shut case of Defence of Another."

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Still not gonna make him any less angry about it, though.

"Vertigo was the Head of State of Vlatava."

"Then they should thank me that I've saved them from being invaded by the vengeful nations of the world."

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Besides, he was all but pulling his dick out and waving it at the world on live teevee. Not really gonna be able to cover that up, even with Diplomatic Immunity.

"And the Justice League's charter is really unclear about lethal force, but that doesn't cover you anyway." He shrugs. "It's a good kill as far as I'm concerned-. You check with General Lane?"

"Yes."

"Then I guess Batman's your problem."

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Yes, yes he is...

Well, hopefully this won't be CS!OL's last heroic deployment. This will really put the cat amongst the pigeons in the League meetings, not least of which was his apparently rogue action. Yes, he cleared it with General Lane, But I doubt certain League members will like that he went under the table on this.

 

[BR549]

I'm guessing he said 'and without any trace of an English accent, no less...'

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According to Google Translate, that's "although I don't know why I would want to".

 

[Duke Long]

"It's probably a bit personal to you, and I imagine that you'd rather than no one else heard. Ah, except Mister Garrick or Jack Knight, if he's there."

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'that'

"Huh. Kind of a… Odd combination. I haven't spoke to Jack in… Ah, since he was a boy. Hold on a sec… There. Better?"

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'an…', but it works as informal speech.
'spoken'?

 

[Darko]

annoyed about getting left out.

"You want me to..? Talk to anyone?"

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Add a " at the end of Paul's sentence.

"Ah… Sword, railgun, missiles, constructs, and assimilation. I can actually speak Welsh now, er nad wyf yn gwybod pam y byddwn i eisiau

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Thought he'd speak Norse now.

Granted, Woran may have learned Welsh.

It sure sounds like something from a Cthulhu story.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That should say 'thought'

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Thank you, corrected.

It was a bit funny that Jay never actually wore a mask, just his classy Hermes cap. I suppose he could vibrate his face as speed to blur ht, though...

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The Earth 16 version had a public identity. In the comics, how many people would have seen both Jay Garrick, mild mannered professional chemist and The Flash, superhero, up close? Bear in mind that it was the forties and fifties and cameras weren't anything like as good as they are now. Heck, it was a plot point in one JSA story that once the government started sending agents specifically to identify them it was actually pretty easy.

I'm guessing he said 'and without any trace of an English accent, no less...'

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It's 'though I don't know why I would want to', actually.

Lovely people, the Welsh.

'that'
'spoken'?

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Thank you, corrected.

'an…', but it works as informal speech.

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Given how he hesitated, I think I'll leave it.

Add a " at the end of Paul's sentence.

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Thank you, corrected.

Thought he'd speak Norse now.

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I just like the idea of him being Welsh. I mean, how many Welsh supervillains can you name?

 

[Signaller]

(Incidentally, at the end of that exercise four people got stickers, but I think the count should have been five? Here - https://forum.questionablequesting....-justice-si-thread-fourteen.8938/post-3016861 - the count is Green Arrow, Flash, Hawkwoman and an unidentified fourth. At the end of Part 21, Lantern Jordan becomes the fifth. Unless the event was numbers 2-4 and Jordan as 5, with Nabu the first, but thr context of that chapter doesnt make it clear. Maybe change "Four. Excuse me" to "Three today. Excuse me."?)

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Thank you, corrected.

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If the correction was only to Part 21 and not earlier or later parts as well, then it went the wrong way, it now makes Jordan in part 26 the sixth death out of four (or out of five, if we count Nabu).

"Was [Flash] the second one to die [after Green Arrow]?"

"Yes, and-. Oh, there goes Hawkwoman to a rather lucky headshot." I smile at him. "Three League members dead so far [Green Arrow, Flash, Hawkwoman]."
...
"Four's more than most real villains manage." [Nabu?, GA, Flash, HW]
...
"Five. Excuse me." [Nabu?, GA, Flash, HW, 5th?, later Jordan as 6th]

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If the intent is that Flash adds +1 for Nabu in the second last line here, then Paul has no (named) reason to increase it to five.

If the SI is counting Nabu in addition to the exercise deaths, then "Three's more than most real villains manage." ... "Three today. Excuse me." fixes the exercise count while keeping the reference to Nabu.

 

[Mr Zoat]

So..? What do I need to change? Was it right originally?

 

[Doccer]

It's gonna be so weird of nobody gets upset and gives OL the business.

 

[Clell65619]

Yeah, but we all know that some writers are really anal about that sort of thing and will project their feelings unto the characters. Some of them will even portray Stewart as if he had never killed anyone before…despite the fact that he was, y'know, A FREAKING MARINE.

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Believe it or don't there have been lots of Marines who, even during wartime, who never killed anyone.

That being said, I've never met a member of any US service, including COs (who were opposed to doing it themselves due to their faith(s)), who were opposed to mass murdering psychopaths being allowed to reach room temperature.

 

[Clell65619]

It's gonna be so weird of nobody gets upset and gives OL the business.

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Well... He works for Wonder Woman, who is an Amazon Warrior, and has killed people far less deserving than the Injustice League. She might be upset, but only due to not being offered the chance to join in.

Batman and Superman will both end up on their High Horses, while actively ignoring how many people have died due to their refusal to deal with their mass murdering bad guys.

Flash (I forget, is this universe's Flash, Barry or Wally?) knows what Jay went through and has (comics) canonically 'dealt' with Zoom, among others in a final manner, only to have Time Travel screw that up.

Honestly, I doubt that anyone in the League has a logical leg to stand on. And Paul can always point out that neither of the people he is required by his Oath to Gaia to obey ever told him to not slaughter mass murderers who would gleefully killing people worldwide.

 

[crazygrox]

"One of my railgun rounds overpenetrated and hit an alligator. It's dead.

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Watch as some sort of intelligent alligator goes after you for killing their father, or it turns out the alligator was inhabited by a spirit of the red checking up on what the heck the green was doing with these plants, or something else.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Believe it or don't there have been lots of Marines who, even during wartime, who never killed anyone.

That being said, I've never met a member of any US service, including COs (who were opposed to doing it themselves due to their faith(s)), who were opposed to mass murdering psychopaths being allowed to reach room temperature.

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Yeah, I know that, but I'm pretty sure Stewart has been shown to have participated in actual combat in his backstory before he became a lantern, so I don't think he's not one of those Marines who have never killed anyone.

Besides, regardless if Stewart did kill or not, that doesn't change the fact that he willingly joined the U.S. Military, an organization that is well known to not be shy about the usage of lethal force when necessary, even if they don't actively encourage killing just for it's own sake. Thus, if Stewart really has a problem with using lethal force when circumstances call for it, then that would make him a massive hypocrite.

Well... He works for Wonder Woman, who is an Amazon Warrior, and has killed people far less deserving than the Injustice League. She might be upset, but only due to not being offered the chance to join in.

Batman and Superman will both end up on their High Horses, while actively ignoring how many people have died due to their refusal to deal with their mass murdering bad guys.

Flash (I forget, is this universe's Flash, Barry or Wally?) knows what Jay went through and has (comics) canonically 'dealt' with Zoom, among others in a final manner, only to have Time Travel screw that up.

Honestly, I doubt that anyone in the League has a logical leg to stand on. And Paul can always point out that neither of the people he is required by his Oath to Gaia to obey ever told him to not slaughter mass murderers who would gleefully killing people worldwide.

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Don't forget that they'll probably make Rational Paul have mandatory counselling sessions with Black Canary, probably in an attempt to fix him or make him realize the error of his ways or some bullcrap like that.

Hell, maybe they'll even have him tested for sociopathy or other similar conditions due to his willingness to kill people without batting an eye. And when the results come back and inevitably show that there's nothing wrong with Rational Paul, they would all be baffled and horrified.

 

[Ardy]

Watch as some sort of intelligent alligator goes after you for killing their father, or it turns out the alligator was inhabited by a spirit of the red checking up on what the heck the green was doing with these plants, or something else.

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Florida Man lays siege to Mount Justice!

 

[Mr Zoat]

So..? What do I need to change? Was it right originally?

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Anyone?

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Anyone?

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Sometimes, the real change you need to make is within yourself.

 

[Ryumancer]

Not sure whether to read that as disbelief that CS!OL could manage that, or shock that he was able to do it... Perhaps both?

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I'm inclined to think it's neither... As the conversation goes on, he understands the reason, but as a flat out admission "Oh, no, they didn't kill themselves. I killed them"? It's not the kinda thing someone would typically expect to hear in the context of Young Hero from Batman's Team, vs Group Of Supervillains.

 

[AmericanNumbers]

Common Sense Orange Lantern isn't a League member and he cleared his actions with the US military beforehand. He's absolutely in the clear. I can't see Diana having any issue. Batman? Sure but he's in the wrong.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Common Sense Orange Lantern isn't a League member and he cleared his actions with the US military beforehand. He's absolutely in the clear. I can't see Diana having any issue. Batman? Sure but he's in the wrong.

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The sad thing is that if this was in the comics, the writers would portray Paul as being worse than Satan for doing this.

 

[Duke Long]

Anyone?

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"Four's more than most real villains manage."

I stop smiling.

"Five. Excuse me."

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'Three's'
'Four.'

This segment is supposed to be Flash commenting on how Oh El 'killed' three members of the Justice League so far (Green Arrow, The Flash, Hawkwoman), then Oh El makes a.. dark joke? About how it's actually four because he killed Nabu. Later on we learn that the total 'death toll' of the exercise included four Justice Leaguers; the three already listed plus Lantern Jordan.

I believe Signaller was confused as to whether the "Four. Excuse me." referred to Nabu or was referring to another Leaguer who 'died' in the exercise. If the former they asked for more clarity in the 'joke', and if the latter there would be one person missing from the list in the debrief, which would require correction.

In conclusion there was no actual error. The only error has been introduced by the attempt at correction.