With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[PJCG]

I think I have to agree with what's most of the people in the thread are saying. There are multiple ways to solve this problem but not in the way the heros want it solved.

Obviously there's mind control, magic, and super technology all these things could bring the world to a semblance of order or back to normality. But it would go against the normal ethics a superhero would follow. And if they were to ask any super genius on how to solve this, they would probably tell you total control or just letting it play out normally is the way to go.

Because, the way I see it, this might be just a natural transition when society itself collapses. Zoat called it 'Year zero' and I kind of agree with him. Throughout history societies and empires have all followed this same path.

 

[RichardWhereat]

A Global Totalitarian Regime led by superheroes sounds crazy,

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It is not. Not if you study history.

Kings ruled because they had the biggest gang. Governments are in control because they have a monopoly on power.

Superheroes that are unable to be killed by the tools of the government are only not in charge due to apathy. Here, Batman isn't apathetic, and has reason to rule. He now has the monopoly of power.

All hail King Batman.

 

[Vaermina]

All of the alien humanitarian aid that OL knows is busy fighting against The Reach and healing the worlds that the Reach ravaged, remember? Not to mention that Alt. Universe Lex Luthor is also busy doing his own thing elsewhere, and he would most likely come to the same conclusion as Orange Lantern and Batman anyway.

As for the kryptonian robots idea, I don't think it's been established if Superman has robot duplicates of himself or an army of drones in the fortress like he does in some other continuities, but either way, that wouldn't fix rhe issue either, because then you're just adding robots to bolster Batman's army.

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Those are all assumptions because OL hasn't actually tried asking.

The Silver City and Asian Gods obviously couldn't give less of a damn, otherwise they would have already gotten involved. In fact, that goes for basically every other divine pantheon too, because considering how worldwide the anti-life broadcast was, there's no way that the gods didn't notice what was happening to their worshippers. And if they couldn't be bothered to actually step in and make a difference, of course OL isn't going to trust them.

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The Silver City was specifically cut off during the Anti-Life, hence "Knock on their Door" which we know Paul can do because he's done it before.

 

[Ardy]

Those are all assumptions because OL hasn't actually tried asking.


The Silver City was specifically cut off during the Anti-Life, hence "Knock on their Door" which we know Paul can do because he's done it before.

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It literally wasn't, Zauriel flat out said they were just refusing to send more support.

 

[Darko]

Those are all assumptions because OL hasn't actually tried asking.

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He really shouldn't have to ask.

The other characters also have intelligence, so they can do those things by themselves.

The Silver City was specifically cut off during the Anti-Life, hence "Knock on their Door" which we know Paul can do because he's done it before.

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Anti-Life is gone.

If they're not doing anything now then that probably means that they don't care.

And if what you're implying is that they're still cut off then how is Paul supposed to get a hold of them?

He's only been to Heaven twice, and only one of those times was of his own free will.

If Heaven is cut off as you're suggesting then that gateway in Iran wouldn't work, so I'll ask again, how is he supposed to get a hold of them?

 

[Vaermina]

He really shouldn't have to ask.

The other characters also have intelligence, so they can do those things by themselves.

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Sure, if they're omniscient.

But Orange Lantern hasn't even told most of the people who could potentially help about the issues he's having. And even of those he has who didn't offer to help without prodding could potentially be convinced to help if the right offer was made to them.

But he hasn't done any of that, even to the point of us getting a sentence of "for various reasons everyone I went to for help refused and I was completely unable to change their minds."

 

[Darko]

Sure, if they're omniscient

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No, if they just have basic intelligence.

But Orange Lantern hasn't even told most of the people who could potentially help about the issues he's having

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There are very few people who could meaningfully help.

Dox is busy with the war with the Reach and he may honestly think that Batman's approach is the best.

Georgia Sivana may be a genius sociologist, but she's also a supervillain, so dictatorship may be something she approves of.

Captain Comet did help Vega but the governments there already existed and just needed prodding to become less awful. And in one of their previous conversations, Comet didn't seem all that against the idea of him potentially becoming overlord of Earth in the past.

And even of those he has who didn't offer to help without prodding could potentially be convinced to help if the right offer was made to them.

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And what could he honestly offer them?

If he seeks any help from divinities then what they would want is obvious; they want worship.

He really shouldn't have to explain that if they showed up and blessed a field to suddenly grow crops then a lot of people will start worshipping them.

If he has to explain that to any of them then they're honestly probably too stupid or incompetent to be relied on.

Any other person or group either has everything they need, or wants things that the SI can't get them.

 

[Steelplaza]

Gods do not actually have a lot of power in the material world, by the way. They can do some stuff, Zeus can toss a lightning bolt, but I'm not sure what you're expecting here. If a god shows up in the material world instead of the thaumosphere, Superman can probably win a fist fight with them, and it might not even be that hard. It would basically be just like adding some more superhumans to the effort. Useful but not world-altering.

As for the Silver City, well, I'm not even sure they'd see "the problem" that they're being called to help with. Like in a literal sense they'd go, "Well okay there's some government instability and people have issues organizing themselves, what else is new my man? Seems like you mortals have got a handle on things what with the GPI and all. You're looking a lot better than during the bronze age collapse, trust us."

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Those are all assumptions because OL hasn't actually tried asking.

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No, they aren't. It was established earlier in the story that L.E.G.I.O.N., the Orange Lantern Corps and the rest of OL's space buddies couldn't assist OL with anti-life or the rebuilding of Earth, remember? Dox even told him so too.

The Silver City was specifically cut off during the Anti-Life, hence "Knock on their Door" which we know Paul can do because he's done it before.

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They still wouldn't give a damn. Did they lift a finger to help during the Sheeda or Demonic invasions that we saw earlier in the story? No they didn't. Did they lift a finger to help during Klarion's split-world stunt? No they didn't. Did they lift a finger to help their worshippers who might have been endangered during Oceanus's rampage? No they didn't.

They only show up when it's convenient for them to do so, and apart from that, they don't give a damn about Earth, or even their own worshippers. In other words, THE SILVER CITY ARE ASSHOLES.

 

[Mr Zoat]

In other words, THE SILVER CITY ARE ASSHOLES.

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No, they're consistent. Life is a test. Pass it and you get a reward, but they're not there to confront your challenges for you. Complaining about having a life that's only fifty times better than that of your great grandfather rather than two hundred suggests that you really don't appreciate what you have.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

No, they're consistent. Life is a test. Pass it and you get a reward, but they're not there to confront your challenges for you. Complaining about having a life that's only fifty times better than that of your great grandfather rather than two hundred suggests that you really don't appreciate what you have.

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That doesn't change the fact that they're all too happy to just sit on their asses and do nothing while humanity is plagued by the very demons that they are supposed to be fighting, or by world-wide threat posed by the Sheeda, Klarion, Oceanus or the Anti-Life. They knew what was happening and did nothing to stop the various threats to the people who are supposed to be their boss's children/worshippers. Therefore, they are NOT allies of humanity, and they are not good either. Those who have the power to stop evil but instead just stand by and refuse to do so are no better than willing accomplices. Again, ASSHOLES.

 

[Prince Charon]

Now I hope something will shatter Anarky's delusions and force him to realize he's an arrogant child who thinks he knows better just because he's more intelligent that the average person.

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Sadly, it'll probably require a lot of people dying before he accepts that (and in a way that doesn't let him blame the government), because he's already decided that government in general is WRONG (caps needed because Lonnie is a kid), so anyone on the trying to argue for the position Batman is taking now must be either EVIL, DELUDED, STUPID, or some combination thereof.

 

[Agumentic]

Those who have the power to stop evil but instead just stand by and refuse to do so are no better than willing accomplices.

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What? Even if you say that saving lives has the highest moral value, which Christianity doesn't, helping to kill more people is obviously worse than not stopping the killers even though you can.

 

[Mr Zoat]

20th July 2013
20:19 GMT -5
Express Yourself.
One of the Peace Operatives pauses for a moment in his labours, frowning. His mouth opens slightly, then closes again.

I suppose if that's all that happens-.

"When… Johnny comes marching home again…"

The Operative exhales sharply through his nose, then shakes his head.

One of the other Operatives looks at him. "What was that?"

"I just… I just felt like singing for some reason."

I look at Canis, who meets my eyes and nods firmly. Express Yourself.

"Nothing wrong with a work song. It's not like we can move these bags with our mouths!"

"I suppose. Do you know 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home'?"

"No, but I'm happy to learn!"

I turn away, and Canis-. Doesn't follow. "Canis?"

"You do not want to listen?"

"No, not particularly. I just wanted to confirm that you could influence them. Unless that's something that you can do to anyone?"

At that, he turns away, walks up to me and lays his hands on my shoulders. Express Yourself.

"Um..?"

He takes his hands away, shaking his head. "There is nothing special to Justifiers -or these Operative Lowlies- that makes it possible for a New God to control them. If you-. Perhaps not you, but for many, if they came to me seeking artistic guidance, then I could cause them to see beauty where before they saw none, or to listen to their own capacity for inspiration where before they drowned it out with the banality of their lives. But if they have no whit or will to hear me, then I cannot force them."

"Okay, so what about Justifiers or Operatives?"

"They are prepared to listen, like the audience at the theatre as the curtain rises. Their souls lack animating force, so they reach for it wherever they may find it."

I nod. "Remove their memories, and one order is as good as another, and better than thinking about how empty they are. Suggestible in mind and soul."

"I cannot speak on the psychological aspect, but it would not surprise me."

"Alright. But Batman isn't on his throne right now. Which means that he's disconnected from the system. So…"

"That may well be why I can influence them so readily. Lacking Lowlies of my own, I have not trained that aspect of my divinity. When I led my father's soldiers against New Genesis, I… May have touched them in such a way. At the time I was more focused on my own artistry than theirs."

"Can humans use New God technology? Normal.. humans?"

"If you mean, use it as we do… I do not know. Your Lowlies cannot, clearly, but your Elites show such an array of powers that I would not like to assume."

"So… Tetch clearly was using the globe for something. Is that just a residue of Mannheim's borrowed power, or is that something he's doing?"

"Lantern…" Canis shakes his head. "I was an officer in Darkseid's army for less than a day, and I have been on the run since. I do not know these things. You would do better to ask the son of Highfather."

"You could ask him. He's your uncle. Honestly, it sounds like something you might need to know."

"We are not close. He hated being on Apokolips. It was completely contrary to his nature. But for me it…"

He looks… Wistful?

"You see beauty where he saw only horror."

"What would be the point of a God of Freedom where everyone is already free?" He shakes his head. "I admire his fixity of purpose… I could not stand so well against Darkseid's pale reflection as he did against the real thing."

"Darkseid's nature is more directly opposed to Scott Free's nature than it is yours. Or is that not how it works."

"No, that is how it works. But it is also a matter of strength."

"So, if Doctor Tetch has become something like a New God, how do we find out what his nature is? Or is that even..? A useful thing to know?"

"It may be useful. But while an Apokoliptian would boast about it, he is being more circumspect. Unless his nature relates in some way to my own…"

He shrugs, shaking his head.

"Alright. If we assume that what Mannheim did to Doctor Tetch turned him into a New God… What about Batman?"

"That should not be possible. Batman was not a New God when he attacked Washington, and not one afterwards. Gathering the technology which Mannheim left behind… He would not have had an expert in their use to guide him. My Aunt and Uncle could not have instructed him, Orion did not remain long enough… Unless there is some other New God on Earth that I do not know of, none could have done it."

"Are there any other New Gods on Earth?"

He shrugs again. "Not to my knowledge, but we have boom tubes. If they simply chose not to announce themselves to me, I would not know of them."

I nod. "That's fair. Keep an eye out for any, would you? It's not a priority-."

He smirks. "Had I encountered any other New Gods, even before Mannheim's conquest, I would have commented upon it. Though it may well be that they did not come because they knew of his activity."

"True. Alright, thank you for your help-."

"And what of your obligation to me?" He folds his arms across his chest. "That you would 'do something horrible' to my psyche if I aided you?"

"The mission isn't over yet. And I can't really have you vanishing into an art coma again, not until Tetch and the globe are in Justice League custody."

"There is little I can do until a new trail can be found."

He looks… Genuinely irritated. I think… Something about what's happening is bringing out his insecurities more than.. they were already.

"Alright. Can you use your powers to become more sensitive to sources of inspiration around you?"

"Of course." Beholders Eye

I peer into the Honden, compelling the corridors to take the forms corresponding to my own desires. Those which build to the impetus to destroy the Anti-Life in that direction, and those which build to the respect I have for the people around me and the sanctity of the will that way. And all the desires arising from what happened since we expunged the Anti-Life in that direction, and what I was feeling when I broke Batman's mind right here.

And I don't get conflicted about my desire any longer, but I can feel disquiet. Oh yes I can. And I let myself feel where I am with my empathic abilities I push it towards Canis.

His eyes widen, his mouth gapes, and he exhales slowly and excitedly.

"Yes. Perfect."

 

[CrazyNoVa]

The Operatives exhales sharply through his nose, then shakes his head.

One of the other Operatives looks at him. "What was that?"

"I just… I just felt like singing for some reason."

I look at Canis, who meets my eyes and nods firmly. Express Yourself.

"Nothing wrong with a work song. It's not like we can move these bags with our mouths!"

"I suppose. Do you know 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home'?"

"No, but I'm happy to learn!"

Click to shrink...

Oooh, now there's an interesting idea! If we want to help the peace operatives regain some of their humanity, why not introduce them to art, music and culture to help them figure out an identity of their own and help them become less robotic? Sure, it wouldn't be the same as returning them to who they used to be, but it would help them establish their own identity and become more human, which could help them better relate to the normal people that they swore to protect.

What? Even if you say that saving lives has the highest moral value, which Christianity doesn't, helping to kill more people is obviously worse than not stopping the killers even though you can.

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Yes, and in turn, just standing there and letting the killers kill innocent people is even worse than just killing the killers.

 

[Signaller]

Zeus can toss a lightning bolt, but I'm not sure what you're expecting here.

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Good point, how's he going with that meteorology course? Have universities started up post-Anti-life yet?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

20th July 2013
20:19 GMT -5
Express Yourself.
One of the Peace Operatives pauses for a moment in his labours, frowning. His mouth opens slightly, then closes again.

I suppose if that's all that happens-.

"When… Johnny comes marching home again…"

Click to shrink...

Heh, a fitting song for them, given the nature of their changes. They've all effectively marched off into service. And presumably, hopefully, when they aren't needed any more, they can be restored and go marching home. Those that want to, anyway.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

The Operatives exhales sharply through his nose, then shakes his head.

One of the other Operatives looks at him. "What was that?"

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I wouldn't be surprised that there are hidden protocols about mental contamination in place in them.

"I just… I just felt like singing for some reason."

I look at Canis, who meets my eyes and nods firmly. Express Yourself.

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On the other hand, they probably recognise OL and Canis and are assuming they've got clearance to be doing this. Up until it interferes with their work, anyway.

"Nothing wrong with a work song. It's not like we can move these bags with our mouths!"

"I suppose. Do you know 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home'?"

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And songs are a useful trick for getting groups into synchronisation. That's the reason sea shantys and marching songs are a thing, especially ones with steady 'call and refrain' cadences.

"No, but I'm happy to learn!"

I turn away, and Canis-. Doesn't follow. "Canis?"

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Heh. Imagine if that spread as a thing through the work parties of Peace Agents. Musical cleanup crews...

"You do not want to listen?"

"No, not particularly. I just wanted to confirm that you could influence them. Unless that's something that you can do to anyone?"

Click to shrink...

Maybe not Canis by himself, but some New Gods would be better suited to commanding people. Gods of War, or Conquest, or Gods of Fellowship and Collaboration...

At that, he turns away, walks up to me and lays his hands on my shoulders. Express Yourself.

"Um..?"

Click to shrink...

And it bounces off like a brick wall. Most likely a matter of relative spiritual 'oomph'.

He takes his hands away, shaking his head. "There is nothing special to Justifiers -or these Operative Lowlies- that makes it possible for a New God to control them. If you-. Perhaps not you, but for many, if they came to me seeking artistic guidance, then I could cause them to see beauty where before they saw none, or to listen to their own capacity for inspiration where before they drowned it out with the banality of their lives. But if they have to whit or will to hear me, then I cannot force them."

Click to shrink...

In other words, he can best affect people already likely to hear him, but few others.

"Okay, so what about Justifiers or Operatives?"

"They are prepared to listen, like the audience at the theatre as the curtain rises. Their souls lack animating force, so they reach for it wherever they may find it."

Click to shrink...

Fitting, since their implanted nature is to listen and serve.

I nod. "Remove their memories, and one order is as good as another, and better than thinking about how empty they are. Suggestible in mind and soul."

"I cannot speak on the psychological aspect, but it would not surprise me."

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The question is if someone with more metaphysical power behind their commands would be obeyed, and how readily.

"Alright. But Batman isn't on his throne right now. Which means that he's disconnected from the system. So…"

"That may well be why I can influence them so readily. Lacking Lowlies of my own, I have not trained that aspect of my divinity. When I led my father's soldiers against New Genesis, I… May have touched them in such a way. At the time I was more focused on my own artistry than theirs."

Click to shrink...

So someone who has trained their metaphysique for this sort of thing would be far more effective. Concerning.

"Can humans use New God technology? Normal.. humans?"

"If you mean, use it as we do… I do not know. Your Lowlies cannot, clearly, but your Elites show such an array of powers that I would not like to assume."

Click to shrink...

Ah, Earth Bullshit™. and because Earth is so chaotic, there's no telling who is or isn't compatible.

"So… Tetch clearly was using the globe for something. Is that just a residue of Mannheim's borrowed power, or is that something he's doing?"

"Lantern…" Canis shakes his head. "I was an officer in Darkseid's army for less than a day, and I have been on the run since. I do not know these things. You would do better to ask the son of Highfather."

Click to shrink...

Well, spit. Figures Canis would be out of the loop in that respect.

"You could ask him. He's your uncle. Honestly, it sounds like something you might need to know."

"We are not close. He hated being on Apokolips. It was completely contrary to his nature. But for me it…"

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And there's no blood between them, good or bad, to overcome that dislike.

He looks… Wistful?

"You see beauty where he saw only horror."

Click to shrink...

Such is the result of being raised in the Apokaliptian way, trained to see it as normal.

"What would be the point of a God of Freedom where everyone is already free?" He shakes his head. "I admire his fixity of purpose… I could not stand so well against Darkseid's pale reflection as he did against the real thing."

"Darkseid's nature is more directly opposed to Scott Free's nature than it is yours. Or is that not how it works."

Click to shrink...

He has a point there. 'Art' is too general a concept to be aligned one way or another. But Freedom and Tyranny? Natural direct opposites.

"No, that is how it works. But it is also a matter of strength."

"So, if Doctor Tetch has become something like a New God, how do we find out what his nature is? Or is that even..? A useful thing to know?"

Click to shrink...

Given it was the result of Apokaliptian technology, it's probably something generally negative. 'Subservience' or 'Enthrallment' or something like that.

"It may be useful. But while an Apokoliptian would boast about it, he is being more circumspect. Unless his nature relates in some way to my own…"

He shrugs, shaking his head.

"Alright. If we assume that what Mannheim did to Doctor Tetch turned him into a New God… What about Batman?"

Click to shrink...

Unless Bats goes as deep into the Fear Spectrum Shaman path as you did into the Avarice path, I doubt he'll ever be as 'New God'-like as you are.

"That should not be possible. Batman was not a New God when he attacked Washington, and not one afterwards. Gathering the technology which Mannheim left behind… He would not have had an expert in their use to guide him. My Aunt and Uncle could not have instructed him, Orion did not remain long enough… Unless there is some other New God on Earth that I do not know of, none could have done it."

Click to shrink...

There could be, but what would be the point of Awakening Batman?

"Are there any other New Gods on Earth?"

He shrugs again. "Not to my knowledge, but we have boom tubes. If they simply chose not to announce themselves to me, I would not know of them."

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And hell, he knows that Batman has a covert Tube aperture system. That's even less noticeable than a Boom Tube...

I nod. "That's fair. Keep an eye out for any, would you? It's not a priority-."

He smirks. "Had I encountered any other New Gods, even before Mannheim's conquest, I would have commented upon it. Though it may well be that they did not come because they knew of his activity."

Click to shrink...

In other words, any who might have been here before the Anti-Life Broadcast would have fucked off home before it started or in the early days of it.

"True. Alright, thank you for your help-."

"And what of your obligation to me?" He folds his arms across his chest. "That you would 'do something horrible' to my psyche if I aided you?"

Click to shrink...

You're taking that seriously? I mean, it was an off-hand comment during a fight...

"The mission isn't over yet. And I can't really have you vanishing into an art coma again, not until Tetch and the globe are in Justice League custody."

"There is little I can do until a new trail can be found."

Click to shrink...

...Guy has a point.

He looks… Genuinely irritated. I think… Something about what's happening is bringing out his insecurities more than.. they were already.

"Alright. Can you use your powers to become more sensitive to sources of inspiration around you?"

"Of course." Beholders Eye

Click to shrink...

Fitting.

I peer into the Honden, compelling the corridors to take the forms corresponding to my own desires. Those which build to the impetus to destroy the Anti-Life in that direction, and those which build to the respect I have for the people around me and the sanctity of the will that way. And all the desires arising from what happened since we expunged the Anti-Life in that direction, and what I was feeling when I broke Batman's mind right here.

Click to shrink...

Oooh, that would be an interesting glimpse of horror for Canis.

And I don't get conflicted about my desire any longer, but I can feel disquiet. Oh yes I can. And I let myself feel where I am with my empathic abilities I push it towards Canis.

His eyes widen, his mouth gapes, and he exhales slowly and excitedly.

"Yes. Perfect."

Click to shrink...

Okay, keep the pants on, big guy. Hopefully he can limit himself to paint rather than other bodily fluids such as blood...

I'm honestly impressed at OL for not getting skeeved out by Canis' reaction, but he might he hiding it well. I shudder to imagine what he might create, but at least this time he won't be turning the floor of a lab into an impromptu art installation. And hopefully he'll be available when Tetch makes his next appearance. Because he will make one sooner or later...

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

I have had a horrible thought.

What if Sleez is Batman's Source of New God Tech / Controlling New God Mind.

We know he was around because Gravyen had to deal with him on his side of things.

 

[Duke Long]

"When… Johnny comes marching home again…"

The Operatives exhales sharply through his nose, then shakes his head.

Click to shrink...

'Operative'

"Nothing wrong with a work song. It's not like we can move these bags with our mouths!"

"I suppose. Do you know 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home'?"

"No, but I'm happy to learn!"

Click to shrink...

Cute!

He takes his hands away, shaking his head. "There is nothing special to Justifiers -or these Operative Lowlies- that makes it possible for a New God to control them. If you-. Perhaps not you, but for many, if they came to me seeking artistic guidance, then I could cause them to see beauty where before they saw none, or to listen to their own capacity for inspiration where before they drowned it out with the banality of their lives. But if they have to whit or will to hear me, then I cannot force them."

Click to shrink...

'no'?

 

[Mr Zoat]

'Operative'
'no'?

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I have had a horrible thought.

What if Sleez is Batman's Source of New God Tech / Controlling New God Mind.

We know he was around because Gravyen had to deal with him on his side of things.

Click to shrink...

Batman teaming up with the God of Porn? Hilarious.

Maybe OL can pray to of one of the virgin Gods and Goddesses of his pantheon (like Athena or Artemis) to ask for advice? Sure, they probably wouldn't help directly, but they might have some advice for OL on how to deal with a God who's pretty much the exact opposite of virgin.

 

[Clell65619]

20th July 2013
20:19 GMT -5


"So, if Doctor Tetch has become something like a New God, how do we find out what his nature is? Or is that even..? A useful thing to know?"

Click to shrink...

Oh, Lord. The New God of Little Girls and Tea Parties. How could that possibly go right?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Oh, Lord. The New God of Little Girls and Tea Parties. How could that possibly go right?

Click to shrink...

I can't answer that question on this website for...

[Checks when Epstein died]

...forteen years.

 

[NightmareWarden]

Doctor Strange isn't really the sort to modify his own brain in a dozen different ways. With an infinite amount of time and an advisor, he could probably attain most of the emotional enlightenments, assuming he only aimed for one.

Teach is not Doctor Strange. Tetch modified his brain once and may do it again, if it is in his pseudo-god nature to do so. Tetch is a Batman villain. He is becoming a villain worth of an arc of Batman's time and attention, rivaling the next Batman stories. Someone who fits new-Batman more than the Joker. If Tetch is a new god, then he is definitely going to become the leader of this group. I think we are seeing a rival faction that can survive dedicated extermination attempts from The Light. It remains to be seen if the Question's group will will become hypocrites. If they are freeing the neo-Justifiers from their brainwipes, that's one thing. If they are going to use them as tools in the fight against "Emperor Batman," then… I do not think they are ideologically aligned. So what happens when that becomes apparent? Question will betray them all eventually, or he will be killed in an escape attempt which ultimately includes enough clues that the whole group can be cut down.


Now, it is possible that their group is going to wind up merging with Sinestro's conspiracy. The odds aren't great, but it is an option. I don't think the Sinestro group, which includes the Superwoman from the heroic-Lex-Luthor Earth, is going to act until Kalmin fully exits Paul's sphere of influence. Kalmin is a genuine believer in destruction, and I think he will return to his homeworld, approve of their reconstituted society, and do his own thing. He isn't going to wait a decade; Qwardians should be willing to destroy their government to uphold their values (and improve their odds of survival against Kalmin) and simply ACT. There is an opportunity for Mr Zoat to compare the actions and successes of Qwardians in this regard to Earth following the anti-life. And I think we will get to see that sort of analysis and rumination from Paragon!Paul.