With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Radix]

Okay. I accept that that is canon.

Now let me explain why I hate it and it's stupid.

Let us start by considering the phrase 'constitutionally corrupt'. What is a constituion? It is a supreme law which sets out the structure of and philosophical justification for the state. What is corruption? Bypassing the proper structure of the state. As such, 'constitutionally corrupt' is a contradiction in terms.

Consider the difference between these two situations:
1) You discover that the DA handling our case has a large debt to his drug dealer. You offer him a million dollars to undercharge you. Joe Snow-Blower gets paid, the DA doesn't get his legs broken and you get a small fine instead of prison time. Corruption.
2) You offer to plead guilty to a minor offence immediately in exchange for other charges being dropped with prejudice. The DA is up for reelection next week and wants a good headline now, so takes the deal. He is reelected. Not corruption.

Why isn't it corruption? Because nothing is being bypassed and the ultimate judge of the DA's action -the demos- is not being kept in the dark. If they decide that a fast result is better than charging in full, they can. If not, the are entirely free to vote for someone else. The fact they trusted the headline and didn't bother reading deeper is neither here nor there.

When it comes to Rimbor, there are two possibilities.
1) There is a system of justice that is similar to what we would recognise, but if you know who to talk to you can nudge things you way with money. Corruption.
2) You get the result you pay for in all circumstances, top to bottom. Not corruption.

Which is Rimbor? Well, the guy in the audience was mystified why the Justice League wasn't paying up, and the judge was openly soliciting in court. That doesn't suggest that they're hiding anything from anyone and that everyone knows that's how it works, and accepts it.

It's the system. I don't think it's a good system, but it is the system they have. And in a fictional setting that's great! I'd like to see an alternate form of dispute resolution which isn't just an American court with the serial number filed off. But not one which requires everyone involved to be a moron.

Imagine a road fitness check where you can pay one fee to get your vehicle approved, but if you give the clerk doing it a bit more you get priority and if you give them a lot more they just sign off on it without checking but they're financially liable for any accident you have so they have to judge carefully whether it's worth it or not. Or where after the League's attack the people of Rimbor totalled up the value of the damage and figured that whoever did it would have to have an empire of their own which would be adversly affected by trade restrictions so issued an advisory note about the attack in the assumption that the attacking empire would pay them off to normalise trade... And then found out that it's just seven private citizens who couldn't pay if off if they wanted to.

Instead... I mean, if the 'judge' is purely interested in how much money he can get out of it, why is he bothering with a court when he can just stick them in a cell and tell them how much they owe him to recall the wanted posters and let them out? Is he hoping that Savage will pay him more to keep things going longer? Is he on alien pay-per-view and needs to keep the audience entertained in the most boring mass murder trial ever? Why did he give up when M'gann asked him to? Heck, they have contact with Earth, why didn't he just send a message to Earth's governments saying that he can keep the trial going indefinitely, or he can end it tomorrow if they pay enough. How much do they want their heroes back? I'm pretty sure the US government would bail Superman. Lex might, if only so he can laugh about it.

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Corruption isnt about bypassing the laws, it is about dishonest or fraudulant practices.

An official changing their behavior for personal gain is corruption. So selectively prosecuting in order to be reelecred certainly seems like a form of corruption to me. If there wasnt an election the next week would they still drop the charges? If no, then it is corruption.

A state can have legal bribery, or even outright legal supports to force the bribery or be punished.

They gave up because Earth had Warworld and Mgann gave the bullshit about bring able to get more bribes because of a better reputation. Mostly just cause thw writers were done with the plot and wanted it done quickly wjthout the League being punished or paying a bribe.

 

[Slake Mothman]

Corruption isnt about bypassing the laws, it is about dishonest or fraudulant practices.

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It is both, and the conjunction of the two meanings is the crux of the issue with the comic. Going by Zoat's and Silverias' accounts of the comic, it seems like the writers wanted to show a society with an "alternate form of dispute resolution which isn't just an American court with the serial number filed off", but did not have the deftness of language to pull it off. For a phrase like 'constitutional corruption' to make any sort of sense, it would have to be compared to a greater something to show what it is a corruption of. Something like, 'Rimbor was once a bastion of order whose people were at once lauded and scorned for the fairness and inviolability of their courts. Then, a century ago, the fire nation pirate guild attacked in a massive coup that upended a millennia of fair government rule. The current government is a consitutional corruption of everything Rimbor once stood for.'

certainly seems like a form of corruption to me

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It is a corruption of your personal values, but not a corruption of the law as written.

 

[Neruz]

? Khorne? Skull Throne? Pyramid?

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Timur, aka Tamerlane, was notoriously a horrible man who liked to do things like slaughter entire towns so he could build pyramids of skulls, and create towers out of living people by cementing them together.

Khorne probably would have liked him.

 

[Stsword]

? Khorne? Skull Throne? Pyramid?

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Timur, 14th century Turco-Mongolion who waged genocidal wars of conquest which are estimated to have killed 17 to 20 million people, 5% of Earth's population.

It is reported that as intimidation tactic he'd make piles of over a thousand skulls from his previous conquests to show the next city what they had to look forward to.

 

[Radix]

It is both, and the conjunction of the two meanings is the crux of the issue with the comic. Going by Zoat's and Silverias' accounts of the comic, it seems like the writers wanted to show a society with an "alternate form of dispute resolution which isn't just an American court with the serial number filed off", but did not have the deftness of language to pull it off. For a phrase like 'constitutional corruption' to make any sort of sense, it would have to be compared to a greater something to show what it is a corruption of. Something like, 'Rimbor was once a bastion of order whose people were at once lauded and scorned for the fairness and inviolability of their courts. Then, a century ago, the fire nation pirate guild attacked in a massive coup that upended a millennia of fair government rule. The current government is a consitutional corruption of everything Rimbor once stood for.'


It is a corruption of your personal values, but not a corruption of the law as written.

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This isnt about the constitutuon being corrupted, it is about corruption (as in the noun) being enshrined in the constitution. Like saying a nation is constitutionally democratic. It means that it is built into the laws to behave cocorruptlyin this case it would mean the constitutional laws do not allow for bribery and similar behavior to be punished.

This isnt from the comics. It is an invention of the show from S2. It wasnt intended as an alternate justice system, it was a way to keep the main Justice League heavy hitters locked down in a way where they couldnt just prove their innocence and be freed. The court of Rimbor didnt care about their guilt, their justice system wasnt about fairness under the law or civil rights, it was a way to extort money from those accused. The very system was set up to be unfair and favor bribery/corruption on an instititional and legal level