With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Vaermina · 2026-02-01T09:33:02+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"Then I can just take you all to another star system and you can wait it out. I want to be clear that that's an option. If saving everyone is just a matter of time that we can get time."

That would buy them like 4 years till Galaxia wipes out all life in the universe.

Chojin Patriarch said:
So, the mission becomes clear: Hit Metalia's base, free its captives, end it (and probably Beryl in the process) and hopefully recover the Silver Crystal and use it to fix everything. No easy task. I fully expect there to be literal armies of youma guarding it, whatever powerful servants Metalia has left on site and Beryl as the final boss... Joy.

If Beryl or Metalia had the Silver Crystal there wouldn't be a solar system left at this point.

Neruz · 2026-02-01T09:40:35+0000

King of Frost said:
I'm a bit surprised they actually did just let OL purify them. If I were designing an "almost can't tell" mind control system not letting anyone tamper with what's keeping them altered would be priority number one or two.

The mind control isn't a designed system, it's just the natural effect of having too much of Chaos's evil energy in you: You turn evil.

You're still you, just evil you.

Duke Long · 2026-02-01T09:53:33+0000

Mr Zoat said:
Sailor V gives me a shocked look. "But there must be a way to save then. Lushun's pillar.. thing, you thought that would work!"

'them'

Mr Zoat said:
"Then I can just take you all to another star system and you can wait it out. I want to be clear that that's an option. If saving everyone is just a matter of time that we can get time."

'then'?

Mr Zoat said:
"Most of them, but that required tools that I just don't have here. And I can't get them. Unless you know of a incredibly powerful focus of pure life energy, then we're out of-"

'an'

LZB1285 · 2026-02-01T10:08:53+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"It didn't work, it just save the other me a power boost. Look, Metalia's the source of the dark energy, right?

gave

Mr Zoat · 2026-02-01T10:14:35+0000

Darko said:
"just gave"

Ngamer11 said:
I think those should say 'sense'

Thank you, corrected.

and 'math'.

No, in Britain, we abbreviate 'mathematics' to 'maths' rather than 'math'.

King of Frost said:
I'm a bit surprised they actually did just let OL purify them. If I were designing an "almost can't tell" mind control system not letting anyone tamper with what's keeping them altered would be priority number one or two.

It was a concern, but the Heavenly Kings are actually pretty good at dark energy manipulation. One sign that he was up to something, the needle goes into his neck. And they didn't have a better idea.

Chojin Patriarch said:
That throws the time frame a little out of whack, unless she means the local Paul left her in England, only to turn up weeks later in youmafied form...

Ah, no. Not 'turned up for the first time'. 'Turned up youmafied and started killing them'.

Duke Long said:
'them'
'then'?
'an'

Thank you, corrected.

PJ739 said:
Can someone tell me the MC oath?

Generally:
"This is my cause, this is my fight!
Shine through the void with orange light!
I've claimed all within my sight!
To keep what is mine, that is my right!"

WereDragon · 2026-02-01T10:59:29+0000

BR549 said:
Neither Beryl or Metallia has ever heard of the Evil Overlord List, and Metallia at least would laugh at it if she had.

Not like Paul is all that good at following the List. He turned into a giant snake and ate an energy field larger than his head simultaneously!

Cool10007 · 2026-02-01T13:43:18+0000

It's fun watching Paul just... go down the capes and cowls apocalypse checklist with people. "Do you have this? Will this work? Can we work with these people? This is a long shot, but- Oh, there is? Great, that's plan B. You're all taking notes, right? It'll be on the test later."

CrazyNoVa · 2026-02-01T17:02:52+0000

PJ739 said:
Can someone tell me the MC oath?

He's got quite a few.

First, Orange Lantern's initial oath:

This is my power
This is my light.
Be it bright of day or black of night.
I claim all that lies within my sight.
TO TAKE WHAT I WANT, THAT IS MY RIGHT!

Then, Paragon!Orange Lantern's oath after reaching Orange Enlightenment:

This is my cause, this is my fight!
Shine through the void with orange light!
I've claimed all within my sight!
To keep what is mine, that is my right!

Orange Lantern's oath when fusing with the Ophidian for the second time:

This is our cause!
This is our fight!
Let none who live dispute our right!
Powered by need, our tireless might
Guides all souls with orange light!

Renegade!Orange Lantern's oath:

This is my power, this is my might!
I stand alone in darkest night!
With this ring, my foes I smite!
I conquer all with orange light!

Renegade/Grayven's oath after getting Sinestro-50's ring:

In blackest day or brightest night,
Beware your fears made into light,
Let those who try and stop what's right,
Burn with my power, Prince Grayven's might!

Coltsguy · 2026-02-01T17:57:39+0000

Vaermina said:
There's nothing Orange Lantern should be able to do unless Zoat rewrites how several things work.

The Silver Crystal is an Infinity Gem level artifact, its so far above anything he's ever dealt with he shouldn't even have any inkling of where to start.

And yet it'll still work. Because deus ex machina don't make sense.

PDV · 2026-02-01T18:33:48+0000

WereDragon said:
Not like Paul is all that good at following the List. He turned into a giant snake and ate an energy field larger than his head simultaneously!

Overlord List Corollaries, #0: If you're going to follow all the rules all the time, why bother to be an evil overlord at all?

Not that he is (except Evaul/Tangseid) but he's a super powered by greed, it sort of applies. Certainly he has the option of having a peaceful life without his ring charge, much like an overlord could just rule a duchy and live in forgettable luxury.

Vaermina · 2026-02-01T21:01:30+0000

Coltsguy said:
And yet it'll still work. Because deus ex machina don't make sense.

It's a dues ex machina linked to a specific bloodline.

Without that bloodline it's just a magical power source.

BR549 · 2026-02-02T02:22:55+0000

Chojin Patriarch said:
Also something toned down for the 90's anime. Probably a bit much for a girl's show.

Toned down in the 4Kids dub. I forget if they toned down the "Queen Serenity killed herself" thing in the original Japanese-language anime, but I vaguely recall they did not. And in the Japanese original version of the anime, um. The ending two-parter against Beryl and Metalia.
Everyone dies. Horribly.
One of the Senshi literally gets crucified.
Another (I think Ami) does the "I will hold them off so you can proceed" thing.
Usagi literally has to stab mind-controlled Tuxedo Mask through the heart, and then basically sacrifices herself to power the Silver Crystal Reset Button.

Everyone laughs at "Talent!" and "Cousins!" but what was done in the original dub was so, so much worse.

At this point, she's probably little more than a finger-puppet for Metalia. A Human body for the dark spirit to walk around in...

While true, certainly by this point, the irony is that an earlier Beryl could possibly have been restored just like Paul did to Kunzite and Zoisite.
It's been awhile, but I seem to recall that when the time came to unveil Metalia's full might to the world, even Beryl was shocked to realise just what, exactly, she had facilicated the unleashing of.
(The other irony that, way back in the Original Moon Queendom Days, if I'm not mistaken, the entire thing started because Beryl had a crush on Endymion and, social status making that impossible, functionally went full yandere.)
I doubt she's actually Naru's mom here though...

CrazyNoVa said:
Um, Paul? Just to be on the safe side, when you find Mazikeen, make sure that you emphasize to your allies that she's not completely evil and on your side. I'm saying this, because unlike in the DC universe, all demons are evil, and I could be wrong, but I don't think the Sailor Scouts have ever had to deal with a non-evil demon/youma before, haven't they?

The Dark Kingdom's youma were, I believe, universally evil. Later on in the series, there were some who could be argued to have been Orange And Blue Morality cases, or simply punching a clock.
(IIRC, the last of the Cardians in the Doom Tree arc, Yammandakka, was portrayed as not particulary enthuiastic about her summoned-for mission at all, and has the unique case of being a monster-of-the-week who was never shown as being defeated/purified by the Senshi, simply vanishing offscreen. This played for hilarity in Shadowjack Watches Sailor Moon in which in the "framing setting" of the watchthrough she's basically adopted by the Senshi as a mascot.)

Coltsguy · 2026-02-02T05:23:45+0000

Vaermina said:
It's a dues ex machina linked to a specific bloodline.

Without that bloodline it's just a magical power source.

Which ties right back into my original post, which is if Usagi is still good to go. You're losing track.

Zig · 2026-02-02T05:34:24+0000

Random aside but how's Renegade Artemis doing? Did she ever remember everyone's names? Did she get to join the league since she's now older than the rest of the team put together?

Darko · 2026-02-02T05:49:25+0000

Zig said:
Random aside but how's Renegade Artemis doing? Did she ever remember everyone's names

I think she did.

Zig said:
Did she get to join the league since she's now older than the rest of the team put together?

I think she's working with the Renegade now instead of the League or Team.

Mr Zoat · 2026-02-02T06:31:50+0000

18th August 2000
04:31 GMT

"So…" I regard Vril Dox curiously as he looks sourly towards the… 'Storage racks' sounds a little… impersonal. But that's what they are. "What's the problem?"

"I misjudged the affect of the orange light. Tamaraneans are naturals, as you said."

I nod, even though he isn't watching me. "Yes, that's why I wasn't worried about recruiting them and why I kept rejecting the people the Crown Imperium sent. It wasn't just because I wanted to keep power where I could control it." I consider the racks again, the former-Lanterns plugged into a virtual world. "You aren't copying your father there, are-?"

"I am not." He keeps his breathing steady, but his eyes remain fixed directly ahead of him as if he doesn't quite trust himself to look at me. "This system is designed to provide counselling. The learning algorithms will adapt to the patterns in their maladaptive behaviour and provide them the stimulation they need in order to break their thought cycles."

The people on the racks are mostly from the Controllers' vassal species, the 'Clickers'. One is a psion, which suggests that someone did something very unwise; i.e. they gave a psion a power ring. A couple are Imperials. None are tamaraneans."

I half-smile. "I don't suppose that it's practical to just increase the tamaranean birth rate, is it?"

"No. And they are culturally biased against mass cloning."

I roll my eyes. "Well, yes."

"Robots become unreliable when exposed to the orange light."

"Dox, automata will not work with a colour that requires individualistic motivation. You have to have people. I thought that you'd be over that wrinkle by now. I know that you and Komand'r-."

"It's-. Been… Different. The tamaraneans are… Friendly. I know perfectly well that Komand'r seeks to use our relationship for her own political advancement, but even she has been more empathic than almost anyone I have known before. I find her company… Honestly preferable."

"I'm not… Complaining, or trying to belittle you… But I'm a little surprised that you're being this open with me."

He gives me a very small shrug. "I have learned more about your nature. Can you lie to me?"

"Your skin in mauve."

"Ah. About something substantive, then?"

I grunt uncomfortably. "Not seriously, not without tying my thoughts in knots. How did you find out?"

"I asked your brother."

"I've got.. three…"

"Orion."

I puff out my lips in an exhalation. "Then you got more out of the git than I did. How did you manage that?"

"He was concerned that you were oppressing Vega. I set him straight while asking for advice, just in case. What are your limits? I need to know if I am to incorporate them in my plans."

"No Apokoliptian has hard limits. What are have are situations where our metaphysiques are stronger. My concepts are civilisation-building, improvement, domination, organisation… Things of that ilk. I can insult and belittle enemies freely, but I would violate my nature to treat an ally like that unless it was specifically to build them up again afterwards. Of course… I'm not obliged to tell them that, or be gentle about it. If they break, too bad for them. Better for everyone else to get them out of the way before someone depends on them and they fail to cope."

"What happens then?"

"Depends. If they just do, nothing. If I swore by my nature that I would succeed, I'd be metaphysically weaker for a time. If I just gave up, anyway.

"Meaning..?"

"Any Apokoliptian technology I tried to use would be less potent. Any ongoing applications of my metaphysique to bind things together would weaken. And I'd get a massively disquieting feeling of wrongness. And -to be clear- I wouldn't be the New God that I am if I was inclined to do things like that anyway, even without the power boost."

"What did you mean by 'if I gave up'?"

"The loss occurs when I stop, not when a particular approach fails. I can be defeated without incurring a penalty, as long as I commit myself to rising again. Likewise, if my effort to aid another fails, so long as I intend to try something different against and again until I succeed, that's fine too."

"Do your people use that knowledge to fight one another?"

I nod. "Of course! But it's not really more significant than learning what your non-New God enemy values and using it against them. I've honestly found it more useful in developing synchronicity than discord. Despite how much I take after our father, Scott just knows that I want to work with him."

"Can I learn to feel that?"

"Yes. It's called 'basic socialisation'. You clearly understand that your father's treatment is why you lack certain social instincts. I don't expect everything to fix itself just because you've spent a couple of years around the nicest and most honest people in the universe, but surely you understand-."

"I understand. And… I'm grateful. But is it possible for me to feel it as your brother does?"

"Ah… Don't think so. Humans are weirdly compatible with a load of exotic stuff. Coluans… Not so much. It's a penalty you have to pay for being the most intelligent mundane species there is."

"Could humans handle an orange ring?"

I nod contemplatively. "Some could. Some couldn't. But I doubt that many of the ones who could would care about a fight on the other side of the galaxy."

"Then what do you suggest?"

"Set up a rotation. Lanterns who pass basic psychological screening get to use rings, but they only get to use them one week a month."

"That would cripple-."

"Yes. Orange rings are not brain-friendly. You can use them as disposable weapons, send the ones with the strongest desire to kill the Reach out as semi-guided ordnance, but if you want actual Lanterns then they're going to have to learn to think while drawing on the orange light. That means not using it while reflecting upon what it was like. In the meantime… Find people who want to do things you need doing in Vega and swap them around with tamaranean Lanterns."

"I thought that you wanted me to avoid doing that."

"I do, but it's too late, and you're in charge. And tamaran could do with a few colonies, when the spoils are getting divvied up." I snort. "Not that liberating Vega wasn't worth doing anyway, but I was really more interested in getting resources to fight my father than the Reach."

"Which is the larger threat?"

I shrug. "Impossible to say, really. I'd say 'Apokolips', because they can remove the possibility to resistance by completing the Anti-Life Equation while the Reach are 'merely' a large social and military force. But if it turns out that the Anti-Life is really hard to finish, then we might have thousands of years with Apokolips just sitting there, committing unpleasant but ultimately small scale atrocities."

"Or it might not be hard."

I nod. "Also possible." Haaaa… "But to be brutally honest, this sort of crucible might be the best way to find out who amongst your subordinates might actually be useful against Apokolips. If they can't handle an orange power ring, I doubt they'd be much use against the Anti-Life. It's imponderable, anyway, and when you have two options, you have to pick one."

He nods thoughtfully. "Are you staying any longer?"

"Controller Hinon hasn't gotten back to me quite yet, but it hasn't been long enough that I feel it's appropriate to nag."

"Then I'd like you to talk to a few off-rotation Lanterns. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how they're managing."

Ngamer11 · 2026-02-02T06:40:11+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"I misjudged the affect of the orange light. Tamaraneans are naturals, as you said."

That should say 'effect'.

The people on the racks are mostly from the Controllers' vassal species, the 'Clickers'. One is a psion, which suggests that someone did something very unwise; i.e. they gave a psion a power ring. A couple are Imperials. None are tamaraneans."

That quotation mark should be removed.

"It's-. Been… Different. The tamaraneans are… Friendly. I know perfectly well that Komand'r seeks to use our relationship for her own political advancement, but even she has been more empathic than almost anyone I have known before. I find her company… Honestly preferable."

That's an unexpected pairing, though now I'm interested in seeing where it leads.

"No Apokoliptian has hard limits. What are have are situations where our metaphysiques are stronger. My concepts are civilisation-building, improvement, domination, organisation… Things of that ilk. I can insult and belittle enemies freely, but I would violate my nature to treat an ally like that unless it was specifically to build them up again afterwards. Of course… I'm not obliged to tell them that, or be gentle about it. If they break, too bad for them. Better for everyone else to get them out of the way before someone depends on them and they fail to cope."

It's great that we're getting an explanation on what the Renegade can and can't do. Also, that should say 'we'.

"The loss occurs when I stop, not when a particular approach fails. I can be defeated without incurring a penalty, as long as I commit myself to rising again. Likewise, if my effort to aid another fails, so long as I intend to try something different against and again until I succeed, that's fine too."

That should say 'again'.

"I do, but it's too late, and you're in charge. And tamaran could do with a few colonies, when the spoils are getting divvied up." I snort. "Not that liberating Vega wasn't worth doing anyway, but I was really more interested in getting resources to fight my father than the Reach."

That should be capitalized.

Darko · 2026-02-02T06:46:35+0000

Mr Zoat said:
"No. And they are culturally biased against mass cloning."

I roll my eyes. "Well, yes.

Well when their enemies have been using they'll have several negative thoughts about it.

Mr Zoat said:
I know that you and Komand'r-."

So they got together.

Mr Zoat said:
Your skin in mauve."

"skin is"

Mr Zoat said:
Depends. If they just do, nothing. If I swore by my nature that I would succeed, I'd be metaphysically weaker for a time. If I just gave up, anyway.

Add a " at the end.

Ngamer11 said:
That's an unexpected pairing, though now I'm interested in seeing where it leads.

They did get together in the comics.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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