With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

Just saying, she basically built her rule on extortion and mind-control, which makes her even less trustworthy. And I also wouldn't put it past her to have built her rule on even more corpses either.

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You don't know any of that. I wouldn't even call what she did to Thanagar extortion. At worst it was profiteering.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

You don't know any of that. I wouldn't even call what she did to Thanagar extortion. At worst it was profiteering.

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Oh, really? "Make me your ruler or else I won't save your civilisation from collapsing because of this horrible plague". I know I'm paraphrasing here, but that sounds like extortion to me. We're not talking about holding back material goods, here. We're talking about the lives of potentially billions and the collapse of an entire civilisation. That goes way, WAY beyond simple profiteering.

Extortion is the act of of obtaining something by making people act out of fear of harm, especially by threats, intimidation, coercion, psychological pressure or violence. Forcing an entire civilisation to bow to you by holding the means to their survival hostage in exchange for making you their supreme leader against their will definitely counts.

Even if we ignore that, that doesn't change the fact that giving a life-or-death ultimatum to your entire race is still a really disgusting way to get yourself declared as the leader of your people, because you're essentially holding your entire world hostage. And it shows that at the end of the day, Hyanthis is a cold-hearted bitch who doesn't care how many of her own people get sick or die as long as she gets to rule.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Oh, really? "Make me your ruler or else I won't save your civilisation from collapsing because of this horrible plague". I know I'm paraphrasing here, but that sounds like extortion to me. We're not talking about holding back material goods, here. We're talking about the lives of potentially billions and the collapse of an entire civilisation. That goes way, WAY beyond simple profiteering.

Extortion is the act of of obtaining something by making people act out of fear of harm, especially by threats, intimidation, coercion, psychological pressure or violence. Forcing an entire civilisation to bow to you by holding the means to their survival hostage in exchange for making you their supreme leader against their will definitely counts.

Even if we ignore that, that doesn't change the fact that giving a life-or-death ultimatum to your entire race is still a really disgusting way to get yourself declared as the leader of your people, because you're essentially holding your entire world hostage. And it shows that at the end of the day, Hyanthis is a cold-hearted bitch who doesn't care how many of her own people get sick or die as long as she gets to rule.

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'Extortion' is making money through force or threats. She didn't threaten them. They were already suffering from the Equalizing Plague, which she had nothing to do with starting or spreading to them. It was profiteering because she took advantage of the crisis and being the only one who could cure it right then to drive the price up, but that's it.

 

[McGraww]

IDK I feel like people are forgetting that Thanagar is explicitly a fascist, racist, expansionist Empire. They are not nice people.

Is Hyanthis perfect? No, not really.

Is she honestly pretty dang good by the standards of space empires? Yes.

The idea that Hyanthis is this terrible cruel empress who needs to be defeated just...doesn't track with what we've seen of her.

Yes, she is at war with and conquering her neighbors. But like so is Thanagar. If you think Hyanthis needs to be defeated, then you should also think Thanagar needs a violent revolution from Paul. (And hey, if you do, my bad.)

 

[Alan975]

They are not nice people.

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ofc, but atleast they're not the spiders.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

IDK I feel like people are forgetting that Thanagar is explicitly a fascist, racist, expansionist Empire. They are not nice people.

Is Hyanthis perfect? No, not really.

Is she honestly pretty dang good by the standards of space empires? Yes.

The idea that Hyanthis is this terrible cruel empress who needs to be defeated just...doesn't track with what we've seen of her.

Yes, she is at war with and conquering her neighbors. But like so is Thanagar. If you think Hyanthis needs to be defeated, then you should also think Thanagar needs a violent revolution from Paul. (And hey, if you do, my bad.)

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Yup. Honestly, I can't remember how many times I've wanted to punch the Thanagarians in the face for their arrogance and xenophobia. They deserve to get wrecked.

But despite all that, Hyanthis' withdrawal of a solution to a civilisation-ending crisis makes them look reasonable in comparison. Being the lightest shade of black in a conflict means that at the end of the day, you're still black.

'Extortion' is making money through force or threats. She didn't threaten them. They were already suffering from the Equalizing Plague, which she had nothing to do with starting or spreading to them. It was profiteering because she took advantage of the crisis and being the only one who could cure it right then to drive the price up, but that's it.

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It doesn't have to be monetary gain to count as extortion. It can be political power too. And yes, she might not have started the crisis, but she did knowingly withold the solution from her people, and she would have gladly just stood there and let them all die if they had refused. That's still really damn scummy, even by Thanagar's standards. Like I said: she was holding the salvation of billions hostage for the sake of her own selfish gain. At the very least, it proves that she's untrustworthy and shouldn't be allowed near Earth.

 

[Vaermina]

That just motivates him to use more extreme measures sooner. I really hope it'll be something that will cause all the factions in the Antares system to decide to hold off any fighting for now to avoid getting even more of his attention.

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What extreme measures?

He'd need someone who can figure out exactly where the device is, who also has the ability to grab it out of the sun, who can then also reverse all the damage already done. And they would have to be able to do all of that in the minutes he has left before the sun expands to the point of no return.

Like, the only group we've seen this entire story that might have the ability to pull that off is the Silver City. And Orange Lantern would sooner sell his soul to demons then ask them for help.

 

[Darko]

What extreme measures?

He'd need someone who can figure out exactly where the device is, who also has the ability to grab it out of the sun, who can then also reverse all the damage already done. And they would have to be able to do all of that in the minutes he has left before the sun expands to the point of no return.

Like, the only group we've seen this entire story that might have the ability to pull that off is the Silver City. And Orange Lantern would sooner sell his soul to demons then ask them for help.

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You do remember the time he asked Zauriel, a member of the Silver City, to help with the rehabilitation of some criminals?

Of course you don't.

You do remember the fact that one of his friends is the champion of a sun god?

Of course you don't.

You do remember that one of his teammates is a former angel that apparently helped the first suns ignite?

Of course you don't.

You do remember that his list of contacts include the likes of the Controllers, who are hyperintelligent godlike beings.

Of course you don't.

You do remember that one of his contact include the Sivana family?

Of course you don't.

 

[Vaermina]

You do remember the time he asked Zauriel, a member of the Silver City, to help with the rehabilitation of some criminals?

Of course you don't.

You do remember the fact that one of his friends is the champion of a sun god?

Of course you don't.

You do remember that one of his teammates is a former angel that apparently helped the first suns ignite?

Of course you don't.

You do remember that his list of contacts include the likes of the Controllers, who are hyperintelligent godlike beings.

Of course you don't.

You do remember that one of his contact include the Sivana family?

Of course you don't.

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You do remember that he has mere minutes and even the Controllers would need time to solve a problem like this?

Of course you don't.

 

[Mr Zoat]

It doesn't have to be monetary gain to count as extortion. It can be political power too. And yes, she might not have started the crisis,

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Yes-.

but she did knowingly withold the solution from her people,

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Wait, what? No? The people of the Equalized Thanagarian Republic weren't her people. They were foreign people she offered to help while her own people were in a major war with three other planets.

and she would have gladly just stood there and let them all die if they had refused. That's still really damn scummy, even by Thanagar's standards. Like I said: she was holding the salvation of billions hostage for the sake of her own selfish gain. At the very least, it proves that she's untrustworthy and shouldn't be allowed near Earth.

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She was making it conditional precisely because she wanted to use their military resources for help Alstair with the Antares War. Unless she got that she was wasting time.