With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

l---erddad---l · Feb 21, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
Well, they should have made those significant concessions.

While this is correct, there is an interesting debate on what you should be able to expect in an ideal, moral world and what you should expect in our world, and there are complex debates about what kind of rebellion works best (rebellion including small things, like marches).

Stsword said:
Even Shazam put in the backdoor that he can take the powers back whenever he wants, why anyone would assume that the guy trying world conquest is more trusting than Shazam, I have no idea.

To be fair to Karmang if he didn't put in an easy backdoor, Shazam needed to learn directly from somebody doing things that Shazam wasn't comfortable with and not being able to simply take away that mans powers (Teth Adom) before he decided to put in that backdoor by routing the power through himself, since last time he set up the connection between Teth and his gods directly (IIRC).

Buggy123 · Feb 21, 2019

Ct613hulu said:
Karmang thought that he had created an organization that would follow his vision once he was gone when he originally empowered the Red Sorcerer-Priests. He is now doing the exact same thing with the Hyperclan.

Contrary to popular belief, just because something fails once does not mean it's doomed to failure again, especially if the circumstances change in subtle but important ways. The guardian programming is being removed, and Karmang has almost certainly learned from his mistakes last time, and there are independent entities (Grayven, the Justice League, etc) who want an egalitarian martian society as well.

And what Karmang did last time wasn't quite the same, either. Last time, he educated red martians with the intent that they'd spread his knowledge and work together to try to remove the guardian block and more. In the process he also inadvertently made a planetary government which was, in part due to the guardian programming, colorist.

Now, he's learned from his mistakes, and this time he is explicitly trying to create a stable and egalitarian planetary government. Furthermore, he has the pre-existing framework of a planetary government and educated society to build off of. And while he might have empowered Hyperclan, he has not indicated that he actually plans to leave them in charge. Especially given that he disagrees with how violent some of them want to be.

Handlewithcare · Feb 21, 2019

Let's all not forget that Karmang has no formal education or even experience governing others. He is a magic teacher.

His solutions are simple and straightforward and he will be very surprised when they backfire

Gantradies · Feb 21, 2019

Stsword said:
Karmang's stated plan is for him to be Supreme Poobah, apoint the city leaders himself, and announce laws of color equality

We then saw that one of the Hyperclan plans to play king of the hill with a city.

So which seems more likely?

That Karmang, the telepathic 20 thousand year old archmage hasn't noticed that the people he gave superpowers to are a bunch of assholes?

Or that his plan for world conquest includes contingencies for dealing with assholes who don't want to do what they're told?

the former.

he's done it once allready!

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2019

Oh, in other news, the tribunal to adjudicate on my indefinite suspension from Sufficient Velocity is being convened.

Mquz · Feb 21, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Oh, in other news, the tribunal to adjudicate on my indefinite suspension from Sufficient Velocity is being convened.

Are you thinking of moving back?

RichardWhereat · Feb 21, 2019

Handlewithcare said:
Let's all not forget that Karmang has no formal education or even experience governing others. He is a magic teacher.

His solutions are simple and straightforward and he will be very surprised when they backfire

He's thousands of years old. Are you certain you want to make absolute statements about him like that?

Mquz · Feb 21, 2019

RichardWhereat said:
He's thousands of years old. Are you certain you want to make absolute statements about him like that?

He spent thousands of years sleeping. He doesn't have any modern political experience. He is essentially a powerful terrorist with noble ideals. Just because he's thousands of years old doesn't mean he's wise.

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2019

Mquz said:
Are you thinking of moving back?

No, I'd just like to be able to 'like' people's posts again, and get rid of that annoying 'you are suspended' banner.

Buggy123 · Feb 21, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
No, I'd just like to be able to 'like' people's posts again, and get rid of that annoying 'you are suspended' banner.

IIRC, if you have AdBlock plus... or was it UBlock. One of those. You can right click the banner and there should be something like a 'block element' option which will hide it. I did that so I didn't have to keep staring at the mod banners.

Vaermina · Feb 21, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
Oh, in other news, the tribunal to adjudicate on my indefinite suspension from Sufficient Velocity is being convened.

That's interesting, who's your advocate?

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2019

Vaermina said:
That's interesting, who's your advocate?

No idea.

Buggy123 said:
IIRC, if you have AdBlock plus... or was it UBlock. One of those. You can right click the banner and there should be something like a 'block element' option which will hide it. I did that so I didn't have to keep staring at the mod banners.

Does appear to be available on whatever I'm using.

Sceptic · Feb 21, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
There's a difference between talking shit about your boss when they're not there and doing it to their face.

It's much less fun when you can't see their reaction.

Mr Zoat said:
Does appear to be available on whatever I'm using.

Ublock origin is available for both firefox and chrome, and lets you pick elements to hide by choosing that from the menu bar icon thing and then clicking on the relevant element.

NeoDarklight · Feb 21, 2019

You know, I'm honestly curious as to what the skin color of a Martian child who has never had the Guardians' programming placed onto them, born to Martians who had that programming removed, would look like, and what the effects would be on Martian society. If they all turned out to be red at birth, that would have... Interesting connotations. If they were all white, also interesting. Same for green. But if they all turned out different colors? Or if non-standard colorations appeared? Well, in the interests of avoiding a lengthy discussion, I'll just say that I'm looking forward to what comes next.

Vaermina · Feb 22, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
No idea.

So... You aren't appealing the ban?

Stsword · Feb 22, 2019

NeoDarklight said:
You know, I'm honestly curious as to what the skin color of a Martian child who has never had the Guardians' programming placed onto them, born to Martians who had that programming removed, would look like, and what the effects would be on Martian society. If they all turned out to be red at birth, that would have... Interesting connotations. If they were all white, also interesting. Same for green. But if they all turned out different colors? Or if non-standard colorations appeared? Well, in the interests of avoiding a lengthy discussion, I'll just say that I'm looking forward to what comes next.

Zoat has indicated that Red Martians are what Burning Martians would look like when not setting themselves on fire.

And since the transformation from burning martian is a telepathic virus and not genetics, green and white martians are a psychosomatic condition from the guardian brainwashing.

So I'd imagine that "liberated" martians would have red kids.

Itypeslow · Feb 22, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
The only other benefit is immunity to rötschreck, and it is impractical to use fire on the surface.
Interesting term. Coined entirely by White Wolf's development team? Odd that the rings should choose that over something else...

Mr Zoat has also used "Tharn" from Watership Down, which means pretty much the same thing as far as I can tell.

Prince Charon · Feb 22, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
No idea.

You should probably get one or ask for one, unless they've changed how those work.

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2019

8th January
22:33 GMT

A decidedly worried M'gann is already crossing the room towards the huddle of White Martians as I step out of the hush tube. Several start backing up immediately, but one of them steps forwards and… They're having a telepathic conversation. A moment passes and everyone simultaneously turns to look at me for a second, then returns their attention to her.

…

Maybe I should have brought a G-Gnome along or something. I can let one of them through my shield without letting other people through, probably due to them not really being 'people'. Or perhaps due to them being my.. employees. Or vassals.

One of the Whites shifts into a somewhat more humanoid shape, then walks closer to M'gann. The rest of the Whites turn and walk out, except one who heads my way. He stops quite close to me and looks up at my face.

…

"If you're trying to talk to me telepathically, it won't work. I block everything."

He blinks, then his neck bulges slightly as he gives himself the ability to speak. "That sounds lonely."

The voice is… Slightly high pitched, chirpy? I'd guess young female, but I'm working off human norms there.

"Most species in this galaxy don't have telepathy. Most people ever born will never have their mind directly touched by another."

"Oh. I… I can't imagine it."

I smile. "Not a fan of Mister J'aarkn's work? He had direct contact with-" The martian in front of me cringes. "-a great many humans-."

"I… Ah… Wasn't.. watching his work for the social commentary."

"That's a shame. He struck me as a rather thorough man. But what did you want to talk to me about?"

"T'ronn told us that you were the one who made M'gann into a Red Martian. Is that true?"

"No, it-. That's a rather dramatic oversimplification. Reds are what martians look like when they don't have Guardian programming compelling them to look Green or White. I am capable of removing the programming, I just… Well, initially, I only knew two martians and only one of them was interested. Later on, when the demonstrations started in earnest I didn't want to add fuel to the fire." No, come on, be honest. "Or spend the rest of my life breaking the mental bonds imprisoning your species. I'd have to do each of you individually and frankly I've got better things to do."

"I see." He blinks. "Ah..?"

"You want me to do you."

"Ah… Yes."

I extend my left hand in benediction. "You have to really want it."

"I do."

"No, look." I clench my left fist and point to my ring's sigil. "This ring's powers are dependent on avarice. I wanted to help M'gann. You?" I shrug. "I'm indifferent. So you have to want it. For at least a few minutes, becoming free has to be the most important thing in your life."

"Free..? From the Red Martians?"

"From any impediment preventing you from coming fully into the power that is your right, be it from the Red Martians, the Guardians-" Other Whites. "-or your own fears and weaknesses. You must single-mindedly want it. Your single-minded desire must-."

"I don't think I can.. do that?"

I shrug and lower my left fist, raising my right in its place. "This one runs on fear. I could create a circle of fire around you, if that would be easier?"

"Ah..?" He backs up. "No, that… Sorry I-? Bothered you." He backs up more, nearly bumping into M'gann and T'ronn on his way out.

M'gann sighs. "Grayven, he was forty two. That wasn't necessary."

"It was if I don't want every member of the local resistance bugging me to remove their programming. And I didn't lie-"

"Ping."

"-to-." Hm. "No, I don't think that would work on a martian. Might be worth considering later, though."

T'ronn stares at Mother Box. "Why do I understand what the box meant by 'ping'?"

"Martians use telepathic biotechnology. New Gods like myself use arcanotechnology; it speaks to the soul." I regard him carefully, but he hasn't had enough contact with humans or M'gann to have internalised the body language yet. "Do you understand the situation?"

"B'enn B'lanx wants all out war. And you want me to prevent it... Somehow."

"Sort of. I don't know enough about Mars or Martian society. I just need… Someone who could plausibly take a leading role. Someone who was at least known to White resistance organisers. I was going to ask M'gann to do it, but apparently you're the man of the hour."

"I.. wouldn't go that far. It was all just-."

"Just spontaneous, yes, I know, that's why it's so frustrating." Honestly, if Apokoliptians were this badly organised Father wouldn't have needed to bother with Grace. "But that doesn't matter. In a situation like this, where no one has legitimacy or even knows what legitimacy looks like, leaders are the ones who lead. B'enn B'lanx is leading. Karmang is leading. And I've got no idea who else -if anyone- is doing the same thing."

"Hundreds of White organisers. I mean, what we were doing was illegal in a lot of places, so we had to be careful. But I know a lot of names and-. Well, fake names, but I could get in touch with them."

"Could you get them together in one place?"

"What? Now?" I nod. "No? Travel is restricted, and the organisers I know are too busy organising local groups to do anything… Wide scale."

"I can teleport them, you, or anyone else. And to the best of my knowledge no one on Mars can track hush tubes. The White leadership needs to agree on a broadly unified position and nominate a spokesman who can deal with the Planetary Council. There doesn't need to be a leader-" Though there should be, and probably will be. "-just someone who can speak for Whites. Because if there isn't a reasonable person, all they'll hear is B'enn B'lanx."

"Maybe they want to hear B'enn B'lanx."

M'gann looks scandalised. "T'ronn!"

"I've… There are a lot of angry Whites out there, M'gann. And I.. was.. speaking to them, meeting them. We got things thrown at us because Mum and Dad were different colours in Mel'dilo'rn. And our city's supposed to be liberal. I've met Martians in our position whose neighbours mindscoured them."

M'gann gasps quietly.

I shrug. "Do you think that things will be better if you have a worldwide civil war?"

"No, but convincing people to calm down-."

"I'm not saying 'calm down', I'm saying 'channel your rage productively'. Come up with a list of demands they can address, give them someone they can negotiate with. Because if you don't, B'enn B'lanx will be making the running."

He thinks for a moment.

"Can you teleport me to places now?"

"Yes."

"I'll need to talk to a lot of people to set this up. The first place we should go is probably…"

Vaermina · Feb 22, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
"I… Ah… Wasn't.. watching his work for the social commentary."

We should make him our mascot.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 22, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
A decidedly worried M'gann is already crossing the room...

Hmm... Not sure if miscolored or tightly controlled emotion. I'm gonna go with the later, given Vril Dox II's text...

...but one of their steps forwards and…

...but one of them steps forwards and…
(or their number, depending on your preference)

Or perhaps due to them being my.. employees. Or vassals.

That's a noteworthy outlook... Just how human does he consider the Genomorphs to be, outside of fully human ones like Dubbilex or Ixy?

The rest of the White turn and walk out, except one who heads my way.

The rest of the Whites turn and walk out, except one who heads my way.

"I… Ah… Wasn't.. watching his work for the social commentary."

I'll bet. Research for shapeshifting or a fetish thing?

...Later on, when the demonstrations started in earnest I didn't want to add fuel to the fire."

Bad pun, Grayven!

"You want me to do you."

Phrasing!

"Ah..?" He backs up. "No, that… Sorry I-? Bothered you." He backs up more, nearly bumping into M'gann and T'ronn on his way out."

Extraneous Quotation mark here.
Also, he clearly didn't want it as much as he thought he did. Typical teenager.

"Ping."

Has Motherbox always used Quotation marks?

I just need… Someone would could plausibly take a leading role.

I just need… Someone who could plausibly take a leading role.

But I know a lot of names and-. Well, fake names, but I could get in touch with them."

Got to wonder how fake names even work for a telepathic species. Something like a spoofed network address?

Because if you don't, B'enn B'lanx will be making the running."

A very British turn of phrase. For anyone wondering, it's like 'taking the lead' or 'setting the pace.'

"I'll need to take to a lot of people to set this up...

"I'll need to talk to a lot of people to set this up...

Well, things are picking up speed. Let's hope they can find a Martin Luther King to B'enn B'lanx's Malcolm X...

King of Frost · Feb 22, 2019

I wonder how Paragon OL would handle this.

Mquz · Feb 22, 2019

King of Frost said:
I wonder how Paragon OL would handle this.

Find some White Martian suitable to join the Orange Lantern Corps? Maybe even Karmang himself? Or ask Karmang for suggestions - while not necessarily politically savvy he does know his own supporters fairly well. There is no 1 a quadrant rule like there is for the GLC. Grayven doesn't have a working corps at the moment, so he can't do that. A White Martian with a little experience could probably remove every Martian's programming simultaneously - they would at least be capable of desiring so.

This seems to be like what Zoat is trying to give OL as an advantage over Grayven. Grayven might be more capable on average, but he doesn't have a large group mentality/ actual team, which could make an interesting "lesson" for a fic based on a Justice League cartoon. Grayven CAN'T be everywhere and do everything no matter how capable and OP he gets. His team is full of powerful people who can't really work together beyond a basic level. Actually, OL's mental exercises have all been to enable him to work as a team member by making other's wants his own even if he would normally be indifferent. This is the perfect mentality to work on a team of any size with an orange ring. In fact, this even explains from a meta point of view why he's losing power. He will probably end up as just another powerful member of the OLC, but with the OLC capable of saving the universe from Darkseid or something, while Grayven might end up unable to do perfect teamwork and therefore at a loss against, for example, Darkseid.

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2019

Chojin Patriarch said:
Hmm... Not sure if miscolored or tightly controlled emotion. I'm gonna go with the later, given Vril Dox II's text...

Yes. Becoming Red has resulted in M'gann holding herself to stricter standards of professional behaviour.

...but one of their steps forwards and…
...but one of them steps forwards and…
(or their number, depending on your preference)

Thank you, corrected.

Or perhaps due to them being my.. employees. Or vassals.
That's a noteworthy outlook... Just how human does he consider the Genomorphs to be, outside of fully human ones like Dubbilex or Ixy?

In the Renegade timeline, their legal status is unclear. Grayven generally treats G-Goblins as normal humans, G-Prometheans as retarded humans and the rest as organic tools.

The rest of the White turn and walk out, except one who heads my way.
The rest of the Whites turn and walk out, except one who heads my way.

Thank you, corrected.

"I… Ah… Wasn't.. watching his work for the social commentary."
I'll bet. Research for shapeshifting or a fetish thing?

We may never know.

...Later on, when the demonstrations started in earnest I didn't want to add fuel to the fire."
Bad pun, Grayven!

The ring would have translated the metaphor non-literally.

"You want me to do you."
Phrasing!

What? They're both single.

"Ah..?" He backs up. "No, that… Sorry I-? Bothered you." He backs up more, nearly bumping into M'gann and T'ronn on his way out."
Extraneous Quotation mark here.

Thank you, corrected.

Also, he clearly didn't want it as much as he thought he did. Typical teenager.

The martian wasn't mentally prepared for that sort of demand.

"Ping."

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Has Motherbox always used Quotation marks?

When pinging out loud, yes.

I just need… Someone would could plausibly take a leading role.
I just need… Someone who could plausibly take a leading role.

Thank you, corrected.

But I know a lot of names and-. Well, fake names, but I could get in touch with them."
Got to wonder how fake names even work for a telepathic species. Something like a spoofed network address?

Indirect communication by written message. Martian civilisation being what it is, writing is often safer than telepathy.

Because if you don't, B'enn B'lanx will be making the running."
A very British turn of phrase. For anyone wondering, it's like 'taking the lead' or 'setting the pace.'

That's why I put the link it: to explain it to the poor benighted colonials without needing them to expose their ignorance.

"I'll need to take to a lot of people to set this up...
"I'll need to talk to a lot of people to set this up...

Thank you, corrected.

Well, things are picking up speed. Let's hope they can find a Martin Luther King to B'enn B'lanx's Malcolm X...

Only with less adultery.

SPAGHETTI POSTING WOOO!

King of Frost said:
I wonder how Paragon OL would handle this.

The SI prevented in from happening by preventing the information reaching the public domain and giving the Reds time to fix their society.[/quote]

King of Frost · Feb 22, 2019

Mr Zoat said:
The SI prevented in from happening by preventing the information reaching the public domain and giving the Reds time to fix their society.

Oh, the Red Martians are actually going to stop oppressing the White Martians because of that?

Huh, a lot of people who died in Grayven's timeline probably don't deserve this then.

Mquz · Feb 22, 2019

King of Frost said:
Oh, the Red Martians are actually going to stop oppressing the White Martians because of that?

Huh, a lot of people who died in Grayven's timeline probably don't deserve this then.

If they do stop oppressing so much, it would probably still just delay the problem. It will take a while, if ever, for White Martians to gain true equality. Though Karmang may be satisfied with the current attempt at improvements. I was assuming in my previous posts you were wondering what OL would do in a situation where White Martians have already rebelled for some unspecified reason.

Ct613hulu · Feb 22, 2019

King of Frost said:
Oh, the Red Martians are actually going to stop oppressing the White Martians because of that?

Huh, a lot of people who died in Grayven's timeline probably don't deserve this then.

I don't think that there was any actual evidence of the Red Martians working to reform their society in the Paragon timeline. The Hyperclan and Karmang are also still in the background preparing for their own strike.

Handlewithcare · Feb 22, 2019

King of Frost said:
I wonder how Paragon OL would handle this.

"CAKE FOR ALL WHO LAY DOWN THEIR WEAPONS!"

general cheering

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2019

King of Frost said:
Oh, the Red Martians are actually going to stop oppressing the White Martians because of that?

The SI doesn't know.

BR549 · Feb 22, 2019

...you know, it didn't ping for me back when he appeared previously, but...

T'ronn, voiced by Bruce Boxleitner?

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Wait, google can see this?

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Versed in the lewd.

Not too sore, are you?

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Aia airëa Fëanáro.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Well worn.

Dedicated ragequitter

Critical Irrationalist

The Final Observer

Well worn.

Versed in the lewd.

Corpses for the Corpse God!

Just zis guy, you know?

Dedicated ragequitter

Well worn.

Veteran Lurker

Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

Versed in the lewd.

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Wishing I was somewhere colder no doubt.

Versed in the lewd.

Experienced.

Versed in the lewd.

Dedicated ragequitter

This is filth! FILTH!!

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