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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Akatsunami said:
And for her to keep watch over him she sometimes has to follow orders she might find unsavory if she can see the sense in them, like bombing those motherfucking war criminals.
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More like if he attempts to do something evil she can taser him and call in the New Genesis people to cart him off to New God jail.
 
Coda said:
I dunno about that. Father Box already whammied his soul and it would require prying into his mind beyond surface thoughts and godspeech to divine the truth. And I wouldn't be surprised if he actually is an apokoliptian now, biologically, even if he isn't ethnically Apokoliptian.
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Biologically that might be true. He did start out as a baseline human from Earth Prime who then foolishly whacked himself up with Blockbuster before Fatherbox did...whatever.

My point was that whatever he is biologically, at his core he is still Paul. Something Motherbox should be able to tell I would think. Thus, the comment of not letting an Apokoliptian do whatever doesn't work, because he isn't one.

Simon Buchan said:
Hmm, I suspect a lot of this is due to present Grayven being more human and understandable in his thought process.
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This has been said before, and everytime I see it, I scratch my head and wonder what the hell they are talking about. I've even reread the fic once just to see if I missed something and I STILL don't get it.
 
Vaermina said:
Motherbox's job was to watch Grayven...

Because nobody trusts him because he's a lying liar who lies.
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Ah, okay, fair point. I did not remember it clearly.

Still though, you keep assuming that Motherbox can't possibly think that Grayven's actions are justified and that she must immediately stop and refuse, or call in the New Genesis cops for a rather tense showdown.

Have you considered that, maybe, Grayven's actions are justifiable to at least some degree to almost anyone who isn't a perfect pacifist or a extreme Kantian?

Or that New Genesis, despite being the Light Side and all that junk, has canonically done some really shady shit up to and including creating a servile beastmen race and then genociding them when they escaped containment? Good is not perfect ultra pacifism or absolute adherence to arbitrary rules in spite of all logic, reason, or common sense.
 
Buggy123 said:
Ah, okay, fair point. I did not remember it clearly.

Still though, you keep assuming that Motherbox can't possibly think that Grayven's actions are justified and that she must immediately stop and refuse, or call in the New Genesis cops for a rather tense showdown.

Have you considered that, maybe, Grayven's actions are justifiable to at least some degree to almost anyone who isn't a perfect pacifist or a extreme Kantian?

Or that New Genesis, despite being the Light Side and all that junk, has canonically done some really shady shit up to and including creating a servile beastmen race and then genociding them when they escaped containment? Good is not perfect ultra pacifism or absolute adherence to arbitrary rules in spite of all logic, reason, or common sense.
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Yes but... innocent civilians?
 
Buggy123 said:
"Was personally there five minutes ago with not a civilian in sight", "one of the only people who can teleport to/from there was in sight since the moment they left", etc.
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The mountain is quite literally the heaviest warded place on the planet.

Because of which neither Grayven nor Motherbox would be able to tell for sure whether there were or weren't any innocents in residence.

And without the ability to confirm that there's no way Motherbox would send an Evil bomb to the place.
 
Vaermina said:
The mountain is quite literally the heaviest warded place on the planet.

Because of which neither Grayven nor Motherbox would be able to tell for sure whether there were or weren't any innocents in residence.

And without the ability to confirm that there's no way Motherbox would send an Evil bomb to the place.
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Yes, because obviously the super magi-tech mother box powered by a god couldn't check, and if she couldn't she'd assume they started teleportating in meat shields the second they left.

face it, you hate grayven for some reason and you need something to justify it
 
Vaermina said:
The mountain is quite literally the heaviest warded place on the planet.

Because of which neither Grayven nor Motherbox would be able to tell for sure whether there were or weren't any innocents in residence.

And without the ability to confirm that there's no way Motherbox would send an Evil bomb to the place.
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A: Hypertech New God AIs probably have at least a few ways to see through magic, to some degree or another

B: Okay, fine, you can't be completely sure that the super evil guy running a super evil organization just happens to have some well-hidden people hiding at his super secret hideaway... who are completely and totally innocent. But given the harm that he just did, and thus clearly could do in the future, I'd be willing to bet that Grayven's Motherbox could weigh that against the slim odds that they'll accidentally kill someone innocent and decide to bomb them.
 
Buggy123 said:
A: Hypertech New God AIs probably have at least a few ways to see through magic, to some degree or another.
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Ways who's effectiveness you can't know unless you know the exact capabilities of the magic user in question.

B: Okay, fine, you can't be completely sure that the super evil guy running a super evil organization just happens to have some well-hidden people hiding at his super secret hideaway... who are completely and totally innocent. But given the harm that he just did, and thus clearly could do in the future, I'd be willing to bet that Grayven's Motherbox could weigh that against the slim odds that they'll accidentally kill someone innocent and decide to bomb them.
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He's a multi-million year old magic using Martian... The bomb isn't going to do shit to him personally.

All the people working under him and anyone he might have for experimentation purposes however.
 
Vaermina said:
Ways who's effectiveness you can't know unless you know the exact capabilities of the magic user in question.


He's a multi-million year old magic using Martian... The bomb isn't going to do shit to him personally.

All the people working under him and anyone he might have for experimentation purposes however.
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Do honestly think Apokolypse never took hostages before? Or do you just want to shit on Grayven more?
 
Vaermina said:
Ways who's effectiveness you can't know unless you know the exact capabilities of the magic user in question.


He's a multi-million year old magic using Martian... The bomb isn't going to do shit to him personally.

All the people working under him and anyone he might have for experimentation purposes however.
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Yes, you can't know exactly, but they've seen enough of him and been at his base for long enough that it's probably perfectly possible to make a educated guess. A educated guess that can be weighed to decide the risk associated with bombing it, which probably weighs out to "do it" from what we've seen.

Multi million year old who's spent most of it asleep, and demonstratably has been mid-high tier with a decent amount of skill. But okay, fine, maybe it doesn't kill him... but it'll still annihilate his base and any Hyperclan who are at it at the time, and possibly flush him out of hiding.

People working for insane supervillains are henchmen, and a whole lot of the time they're complicit. And what evidence have we had that he has any test subjects at this point in time? At some point, maybe, but he's already worked out everything he needs to know about the Guardian block it seems.
 
sacrarium0 said:
I could. How often are they updated? It's just a matter of running a couple of scripts at this point.
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Well... the ones on SV won't ever be updated again, and there isn't one on QQ yet. In either case, the site staff rather strongly frown upon running scrapers. They're updated unpredictably, usually whenever one of us proofreader types decides to do a re-read for whatever reason.
 
Hoard (part 1)
  • Threadmarks
    • Hoard

    10th January
    22:03 GMT

    I cautiously sip at the purple.. gel stuff in my glass as I look around the reception hall. Not everyone who was originally invited to the conference stayed to the end. For some participants, the idea of giving someone such an expansive influence on their defence policy was simply unacceptable. And once they received an official reassurance -even if it was short of a formal non-aggression pact- the Gordanians had no reason to stay. But we got most, and Dox is confident that the rest will come around eventually.

    Assuming that the Reach doesn't consume them first. Darkstars are being assigned to prevent that immediately.

    Not Jade, of course. She's starting her training-. Well, her training placement assessments. Since the Darkstars take in people with a wide range of backgrounds and knowledge bases they have developed a system of individualised curricula. By local standards Jade's training is extremely lopsided: her actual combat skills and knowledge of tactics are highly advanced while her technical knowledge lags far behind. I know that she'll manage, but I am.. aware that her pride might take a hit when commandos from allied worlds start joining up and passing out faster than she does.

    "This went well."

    Lantern Dul has a mug of… Oh, somewhere around here makes blurb. Either that, or her desire was strong enough that she ring-fabricated it herself. The Orange Lantern Corps uniform she's wearing has been modified from the… Alright, not from the 'standard', because there really isn't one. Modified from the 'Thanagarian military field garb with Orange sigil' she was wearing before to have more dress uniform qualities.

    "Only the one major attack, a general consensus in our favour and an agreement we can work with." I nod, briefly generating wing constructs so that I can make the equivalent thanagarian gesture. "Has Dox given you a new assignment yet?"

    "A good will tour. Showing off what Orange Lanterns are capable of to the adoring masses." She look around the room-. Has she.. dyed her feathers? Several primaries are now orange rather than the pale grey-. "How was your fest-? Are you staring at my feathers?"

    "They weren't that colour when I left." I return my attention to her face. "Is that decoration, or some sort of sign of your new affiliation?"

    She fluffs her wings self consciously. "They're decorative inserts. I don't usually have much reason to wear them."

    "I assume that running my fingers along them would be inappropriate."

    She stares directly into my eyes. Which isn't quite as aggressive a gesture for a thanagarian as it is for a human. More… Confrontational. "That depends."

    "I'm curious as to what it feels like but not sexually interested in you."

    "Then yes, it's definitely inappropriate." She looks away again, eyes fixing on points of interest for a few moments before jumping to the next. "How was your festival? I heard things got a little exciting."

    "Bit of a downer, to be honest. It started out fun, then a bunch of religious fanatics declared a vendetta against me."

    "If you were thanagarian, you'd say that was a good thing. Just cause and a clear target."

    "But I'm not. It was an annoying distraction I didn't plan for. Plus I died, which completely-"

    Her wings shiver. "Ah, what?"

    "-spoiled things. I died."

    "You mean, you technically died but the doctors restarted your brain?"

    "No, no, I got.. stabbed and incinerated. Woke up in one of my species' afterlives. And not the one I was meant to go to. Frankly, the whole thing was confusing and unpleasant."

    She.. stares at me for a moment, eyes moving over my obviously non-incinerated body. "Is this a.. religious metaphor?"

    "Probably. It's also literally true. Death…" How to put this? "Earth is a high magic environment. It's entirely possible for someone who knows what they're doing -or who has help- to remain coherent after their death. Coming back is harder, but perfectly within the bounds of possibility. I assume that Dox left you here when he came to support me?"

    Her eyes are focused on my face, probably bringing everything she's learned about wingless humanoid facial expression to bear in an attempt to determine whether or not I'm being serious. "Yes. If every Lantern left it would have been taken as a sign of weakness."

    "The Lanterns Dox brought with him got into a fight with a species of… Ah… Source worshipping intermediaries? We probably had things under control, but there's no such thing as too much firepower."

    "I will be sure to read the reports."

    I nod, taking another sip of the purple stuff. The taste is alright, but if you don't swallow it almost at once it starts to gum up your mouth. "You should see if you can get authorisation to look at Katar Hol's reports on human society. It's a bit mental."

    "Do humans come back from the dead often?"

    "Oh, all the time. Usually shorn of most of their memories and in the body of an infant… Full body resurrections are more unusual but hardly unheard of. There's this one guy called Vandal Savage, tens of thousands of years old. One time he was stabbed, impaled, surrounded by wood, covered in oil and then set on fire. When the fire went out they smashed his skeleton to bits with hammers and then buried the fragments in eleven separate graves." I grin. "That kept him down for a couple of months. If I ever find him I'm going to throw him into a sun." I lean in. "Not our sun, though. The risk's too great."

    "And magic makes that possible?"

    "Magic, combined with the orange light in my case… I've got no idea how Savage's resurrection works mechanically. I've never looked into it; are thanagarians religious?"

    "There are some Source worshippers on some of the older colonies." The ones which never really adapted to the home world's post-equality plague militarism. "Otherwise we're fairly materialistic."

    "So you're promising me that I'm never going to get called to Thanagar to fight Onimar Synn? Because I will hold you to that."

    She clicks her tongue contemptuously. "A few deranged idiots do not make a religion. Besides, how would you hold me to something like that?"

    "By not going when it happens. The Thanagar Empire isn't a pre-FTL civilisation like my own. If your people want to poke things they don't understand then they've got more than enough resources to hire in people who do."

    "We're not big on hiring aliens to perform security-critical jobs."

    "Understandable. Unfortunately, the only thanagarians who know magic work for Queen Hyathis." Oh, wait. That's not true. The Halls do. How loyal to the homeworld does Sharon Parker consider herself to be? Probably enough to visit… "Actually… I know someone."

    "You forgot that you know a thanagarian magician who doesn't work for Hyathis?"

    "She's not thanagarian any more. She's been reincarnated a lot of times since then. Look, I've been putting off visiting Thanagar for a while. If Dox can spare you for a few days-."

    "I wouldn't mind visiting home. And meeting your expert."
     
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    • Travisplo said:
    Does that mean you do remember what he was doing before? Because I'd love to know what's going on.
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    Peace conference with the Reach border worlds interesting in maintaining independence and Maltus representatives (Darkstars, OLanterns), but OL himself is recently out of Heaven and recovered from his incineration and time as a glowing orange soul-snek. Best holiday ever!

    Mr Zoat said:
    Lantern Dul has a mug of… Oh, somewhere around here makes blurb. Either that, or her desire was strong enough that he ring-fabricated it herself. "
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    Either a very rapid F-M-F gender swap or a typo :p
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    ...knowledge of tactics are highly advanced while her technical knowledge lacks far behind.
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    ...knowledge of tactics are highly advanced while her technical knowledge lags far behind.
    (Not sure if intentional, the latter feels better.)

    ...commandos from allied worlds start joining up and passing out faster than she does.
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    Caught me off guard, but then I remembered the usage in military terms: completing basic training or similar...

    Either that, or her desire was strong enough that he ring-fabricated it herself.
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    Either that, or her desire was strong enough that she ring-fabricated it herself.

    Alright, not from the 'standard', because there really isn't one.
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    You might want to get Dox on that. Help foster esprit de core...

    ...was wearing before to have more dress uniform quality.
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    ...was wearing before to have more dress uniform qualities.
    (Reads a little better, again.)

    "How was your fest-? Are you staring at my feathers?"
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    Honestly, Paul, you just can't help the accidental sexual harassment, can you? :D (assuming this is as insulting as staring at her breasts)

    "But I'm not. It was an annoying distraction I didn't plan for. Plus I died, which completely-"
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    He says it so casually...

    "I will be sure to read the reports."
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    That's going to become a watchword (er...phrase) around Paul, isn't it?

    ...There's this one guy called Vandal Savage, tens of thousands of years old. One time he was stabbed, impaled, surrounded by wood, covered in oil and then set on fire. When the fire went out they smashed his skeleton to bits with hammers and then buried the fragments in eleven separate graves."
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    Rasputinian deaths: For when you really, really want someone gone.

    Seriously hope we get closure for the Mars stuff Grayven was caught up in... Can we expect a Renegade interlude during this Paragon episode, or is he going to be busy healing up for a while?
     
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    Chojin Patriarch said:
    ...knowledge of tactics are highly advanced while her technical knowledge lags far behind.
    (Not sure if intentional, the latter feels better.)
    ...commandos from allied worlds start joining up and passing out faster than she does.
    Caught me off guard, but then I remembered the usage in military terms: completing basic training or similar...
    ...was wearing before to have more dress uniform quality.
    ...was wearing before to have more dress uniform qualities.
    (Reads a little better, again.)
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    Thank you, corrected.
    Seriously hope we get closure for the Mars stuff Grayven was caught up in... Can we expect a Renegade interlude during this Paragon episode, or is he going to be busy healing up for a while?
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    Renegade during an SI episode? What madness is this?
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "Oh, all the time. Usually shorn of most of their memories and in the body of an infant… Full body resurrections are more unusual but hardly unheard of. There's this one guy called Vandal Savage, tens of thousands of years old. One time he was stabbed, impaled, surrounded by wood, covered in oil and then set on fire. When the fire went out they smashed his skeleton to bits with hammers and then buried the fragments in eleven separate graves." I grin. "That kept him down for a couple of months. If I ever find him I'm going to throw him into a sun." I lean in. "Not our sun, though. The risk's too great."
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    So, what would happen if you chopped him into pieces and put each piece in a small tungsten box? Assuming that he has no spare parts lying around to regrow from.
     
    Sorrow said:
    Gosh Darn! I wanted to see what the "Evil Bomb" did...
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    I'm not sure you do.
    Gforce1000 said:
    So, what would happen if you chopped him into pieces and put each piece in a small tungsten box? Assuming that he has no spare parts lying around to regrow from.
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    The SI doesn't know.
    RichardWhereat said:
    Overkill is a fictional concept invented by hippies and communists to save enemy lives.
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    Logistical constraints aren't fictional, and you can tell from how rarely they appear in fiction.
     
    Hm ... so the reincarnating hawk woman was once Thanagarian? And is also a different hawkwoman from the current Thanagarian one with the same name? I thought she was an Egyptian priestess who found a Thanagarian ship or something? Is the same thing true of the reincarnating hawk man? Don't quite remember if Zoat said anything along these lines beforehand.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "I'm curious as to what it feels like but not sexually interested in you."
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    Pity, she seems a lot more fun then Jade.

    "Oh, all the time. Usually shorn of most of their memories and in the body of an infant… Full body resurrections are more unusual but hardly unheard of. There's this one guy called Vandal Savage, tens of thousands of years old. One time he was stabbed, impaled, surrounded by wood, covered in oil and then set on fire. When the fire went out they smashed his skeleton to bits with hammers and then buried the fragments in eleven separate graves." I grin. "That kept him down for a couple of months. If I ever find him I'm going to throw him into a sun." I lean in. "Not our sun, though. The risk's too great."
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    Those sound like potential respawn points to me...

    I am really starting to question whether he's really dead even in Grayven's timeline.

    "She's not thanagarian any more. She's been reincarnated a lot of times since then. Look, I've been putting off visiting Thanagar for a while. If Dox can spare you for a few days-."

    "I wouldn't mind visiting home. And meeting your expert."
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    Oh you better not skip that Mr Zoat... Because that sounds like a super interesting trip.
     
    Mr Zoat said:
    "I assume that running my fingers along them would be inappropriate."

    She stares directly into my eyes. Which isn't quite as aggressive a gesture for a thanagarian as it is for a human. More… Confrontational. "That depends."

    "I'm curious as to what it feels like but not sexually interested in you."
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    I miss Guy. If he were there for some reason he'd probably mention that for humans that's considered intimate too.

    I always forget how forward OL can be in a non-romantic fashion.
     
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