With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Mr Zoat]

Plus, as we see in Batman of the Future and Static, the process is supposed to be reversable.

 

[hance1986]

I just realized a way to combine some exposition on Peter's impact after 2005 started in 1996 so 9 years, some exposition on Peter's impact could be Lois Lane, top reporter for The Daily Planet, comes to his base of operations in Britain to interview him.

And who is in her wake but Clark Kent, who came with Lois to write some articles on Peter's business ventures. Say Peter's approaches to Farmer Brown did work and safe super animals were developed and made hard waves in the farming industry. Hell, Clark's parents have a farm. They could have said something to Clark about issues keeping up with these new British super cows and chickens.

That could be part of it along with some League work on the side. If Peter says he is relatively open on his company's work, how not malicious things are, a Leaguer with enhanced hearing and x-ray vision could confirm that.

Thoughts?

 

[Sad Machine]

Why not put this as a second story?

 

[Ngamer11]

Why not put this as a second story?

Click to shrink...

Because Mr Zoat doesn't have the time. He is already creating what is possibly going to be the longest story in the internet. If people really want another story, someone else will have to write it.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Because Mr Zoat doesn't have the time. He is already creating what is possibly going to be the longest story in the internet. If people really want another story, someone else will have to write it.

Click to shrink...

Darn. No 'insightful' rating.

 

[Jirachi]

I'd expect that someone like Bierce could figure out some sort of hack to draw on the light of avarice after being shown the ring, and that he'd probably be able to track down a few people like him in a few years time, but it's your story, and that works too.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Ah, darn. Just found out that the Crime Syndicate version of the Metal Men are canonically called the Metal Marauders. Two panels in Trinity.

 

[SotF]

Plus, as we see in Batman of the Future and Static, the process is supposed to be reversable.

Click to shrink...

It was also reverseable in the later parts of the Batman stuff, such as the episode where that idiot abducted Selena and used it on her...though that seems to have been a mix of tech that made Cheetah and Man-Bat at that point and more R&D

 

[DrThoth]

I'd expect that someone like Bierce could figure out some sort of hack to draw on the light of avarice after being shown the ring, and that he'd probably be able to track down a few people like him in a few years time, but it's your story, and that works too.

Click to shrink...

Doctor Mist of Earth-16 tapped into the White Light with magic (I assume there's a version of him around in the DCAU too) so it's feasible; you just need failsafes, probably similar ones to the Staff of Love. Since Zoat essentially transplanted Hellblazer continuity into the Young Justice setting, I see no reason why all of those elements (Tate Club, Constantine, even the cultist government) won't exist in Earth-12. Now they might possibly be dangerous antagonists for Business-Paul's ventures- financial and economic influence can be translated into political influence fairly easily.

 

[Tzeentch]

"Essentially, my business makes its money by acquiring the rights to… Unusually advanced technology and finding civilian applications for it. I'm aware that this… Wasn't what you originally intended, and I see definite commercial potential in your work."

Click to shrink...

Hmm, guess this looks like Splicing is going to be a craze a bit early this century!

There are a few other scientists I'm going to be trying to recruit

Click to shrink...

YES! Farmer Brown and Pied Piper!

In regards to Doctor Brown, aside from possibilities his steroid research represents for mankind if his very strong daughter is any indication, I wonder if he would be intrigued regarding cultured meat, seeing as so many namby pamby narrow-minded folks ain't ready from incredibly enlarged animals just yet.

As for Mr. Rathaway, there all KINDS of applications for his work, especially when you consider all the interesting properties of sound that could be explored... besides helping the deaf hear and/or controlling the minds of people animals of course.

 

[Nervaqus987]

It did when it was finally marketed to the public in the 2040s.

Click to shrink...

It was also rapidly made illegal for....uh.....honestly can't remember.

Asshole Supervillain dragging the whole thing through the mud and no one wanting to touch it, probably.

 

[Tzeentch]

The green lantern ring can get a charge from static shock at least. It's part of jlu. It's likely energy inefficient, maybe enough energy to power continental America for a day is a percent of the powering?

Click to shrink...

...is this fact, or what he believes? Because Earth-12 green power rings can absolutely be recharged on electricity, if I'm recalling the Static Shock crossover episodes correctly.

(And ninja'd as I'm typing this, bah, Bah I say!)

Click to shrink...

PAUL-12: That's just completely impossi-! ...Mister Hawkins, how would you like a job, and a VERY well-paying one at that?

 

[Vaermina]

It was also rapidly made illegal for....uh.....honestly can't remember.

Asshole Supervillain dragging the whole thing through the mud and no one wanting to touch it, probably.

Click to shrink...

Because the doctor behind it was basically a real life drug dealer/pimp who got kids hooked on his product then had them commit crimes for their next fix.

 

[Jirachi]

In a few places, Paul is confused and unable to decipher rune equations and what he thinks are 'the maltusian equivalent of runic equations'. But wouldn't the rings translator work on mathematical notation as well as it works on regular language? I mean, even translated, it probably wouldn't mean much to him, but it wouldn't look meaningless.

 

[Mr Zoat]

In a few places, Paul is confused and unable to decipher rune equations and what he thinks are 'the maltusian equivalent of runic equations'. But wouldn't the rings translator work on mathematical notation as well as it works on regular language? I mean, even translated, it probably wouldn't mean much to him, but it wouldn't look meaningless.

Click to shrink...

If he has no equivalent to the concepts it is attempting to communicate then the translator cannot work.

 

[Jirachi]

If he has no equivalent to the concepts it is attempting to communicate then the translator cannot work.

Click to shrink...

How good is it at that? I mean, the one with the maltusian runic equations was about larfleeze's emotional composition, and I imagine he'd have a certain level of instinctive understanding of the operation of at least the orange light from his enlightenment and such, and the equations probably at least occasionally refer to things he's familiar with, like just 'power' or 'strength of connection'.

 

[Mr Zoat]

How good is it at that? I mean, the one with the maltusian runic equations was about larfleeze's emotional composition, and I imagine he'd have a certain level of instinctive understanding of the operation of at least the orange light from his enlightenment and such, and the equations probably at least occasionally refer to things he's familiar with, like just 'power' or 'strength of connection'.

Click to shrink...

Um. Maybe if you link me to it?

 

[Jirachi]

20th July
17:48 GMT

"So how hard is this going to be?"

We're standing at the entrance to a small amphitheatre, the stalls around us populated by Controllers. I'm not completely sure whether this is all of the Controllers, or just all the ones on Maltus or even just the ones who could be bothered to turn up. Most look roughly like Controller Jevek, though there is a degree of individual variation. Longer robes and slightly softer face here, shorter and with hair there. Skin colour ranges from Guardian blue to purply-red and hair comes in black and white with nothing in between.

The general style of the robes appears to be set, but precise length, cut and colouration vary in a number of cases. The glowing crystal and glowing forehead are universal, though the one Controller Hinon wears is dimmer as she draws power from her ring. There are far more males than females… But I'm wondering if some of those I mentally designated as 'male' are actually gender neutral.

"I really couldn't say for certain." Hinon looks down at her ring. "Oh, if only Ganthet was answering me. We always worked so well together."

"Sorry, but I think they blacklisted orange rings."

"I'll go and bother him in person later. We will need to send a formal deputation once everything's up and running, and I do so want to see what they've done with Oa since I've been gone."

"Made lots of green stuff."

"But all of the people! I find it astonishing to think that they're prepared to tolerate an actual population when-. Oh, they're ready for us." The portal melts away in front of us to allow us access. "Follow me."

She floats through the air, feet trailing a little behind her as she goes. I fly after her while maintaining my upright posture. I didn't think that armour was appropriate, but with my initial impression made I've switched to grey robes with orange trim. I've only met a few of the Controllers while I've been here, and I'm not… I left Earth after haranguing the Justice League. Superman has been the iconic superhero on Earth Prime since the forties and I didn't think twice. So while even Guy hesitates to make cracks about the Guardians, to me? They're.. just some people in robes.

Maybe I'd feel differently if they weren't jamming my empathic vision…

Hinon occupies the centre and looks up and around at her fellow Controllers. "Brethren. You've all had the chance to consider the matter under contention. The Orange Lantern and I have given the matter a considerable degree of thought, and we believe that we have a methodology which offers us the best possible chance to recover the Orange Light Fountain. And neutralise its present owner."

There's a flash from the gem at the neck of one of the blue-skinned female Controllers. "The Guardians?"

Jevek's gem glitters. "What does it matter? The Vega Systems have been off-limits to the Green Lanterns since their inception. And now we know why." He looks around the room. "The light will be ours. The Controllers will be in control."

Another flicker from another Controller. "The continuous presence of Green Lanterns on the borders of Reach space slows the Reach advance. It would be advantageous for them to remain."

Another. "Alienating our Guardian brethren would serve no useful purpose, but it is a secondary matter. The orange light must be recovered and put to our use."

One of Jevek's look-alikes. "How do you intend to remove the Orange Light Fountain from Larfleeze's control? Your equations indicated that after so much direct exposure he will have become even more powerful than he was when he enslaved our brother Ogandu Onna Oslan."

"I'm glad you ask." Hinon raises her right hand and generates… I think that's the Maltus version of Atlantean rune equations. "I won't know for certain until we can observe him directly, but I believe that I have a model for how Larfleeze could survive his experiences, even remaining capable of coherent speech. The most likely possibility is that he had what we might call a natural affinity for avarice, for seeing everything in terms of wants and needs. Without anything very much to get in the way of it, the orange light could form a most intense bond with him. At this point I'm not certain he needs either ring or lantern."

A glimmer from Jevek. "But his link can be severed."

"Yes. With difficulty. Over time. In the short term we're going to attempt to neutralise his capacity to focus his desires on any one object, and so paralyse him. That should enable us to transfer the Light Fountain into a proper Central Power Battery housing."

"And we can control the link. Cut him off."

"Perhaps. Eventually. If we actually want to do that, we'd have to wean him off it and then feed in other colours gradually. It wouldn't be a quick process."

I form an orange gem on my own chest and forehead and flash it before anyone else can get in. "Yes, we do want to. Orange light damage is something we're going to end up having to treat amongst Orange Lanterns. We don't need crazy ones running around the place and making the rest of us look bad. Anything we learn from treating the worst case in existence would be invaluable in that regard."

"If it is inevitable, how did you manage?"

"I didn't-."

"Very weak desires, possibly aided by his lack of an attendant arcane construct. There was so little opportunity for the egress of orange energy that he had nearly enough time to learn to channel it without being overwhelmed." She brings up another chart. Me, presumably. "Then he had a construct created in such a way that it would encourage proper interfacing. Unfortunately, for those future Lanterns not fortunate enough to spend a great deal of time in high magic regions, it won't be practical to use it on others."

And also because you'd need to destroy their existing souls in order to do so.

"Larfleeze's current slaves?"

"Once we disrupt him, he should become listless and apathetic. He won't be able to direct them."

"I would very much like to see if restoring them is possible. If nothing else, Ogandu Onna Oslan's restoration to flesh would assist us in maintaining good relations with the Guardians."

Various Controllers look around the room, and there's a shining of gems.

Then a short, Guardian-looking one nods. "We have a consensus. You are to proceed. We will begin constructing a Central Power Battery and holding cell in line with your specifications."

Hinon looks pleased. "Thank you, brothers. The Orange Lantern and I will make our final preparations and depart."

She turns and heads back towards the door, me close at her heels. She eyes me sidelong as the door closes. "I thought you weren't going to talk."

"You told me not to. It isn't quite the same thing."

"Starting as you mean to go on?"

"Yes. I told you that I don't intend for the Controllers to completely control the Orange Lantern Corps in the way that the Guardians do the Green."

"And I agreed that their sort of control wouldn't work with orange light users. But we need to lure the other Controllers into accepting that situation. Tempt them into committing to it fully."

I give my head a small shake. "What's left to do?"

"I want to check the system with the Ophidian once more. Then, nothing. We're off to see the Beast."

"'We'? I thought you were keeping out of sight?"

She pats me on the shoulder. "I'll be with you in spirit. Ready to begin again more intelligently if you lose."

"Let's hope it doesn't come to that."

Click to shrink...

Hinon here is modelling the behaviour of the orange light and a soul, so I imagine that Paul has some instinctive non-verbal understanding of what it refers to?
I'm not sure though, so that's your call.

13th October
15:03 GMT -5

I push open the door to Sephtian's New York workshop. "Professor? Any-"

The Pomegranate of Good and Evil is sitting in a large and.. slightly frightening resonance array, and those parts of the computer screens and electronic blackboards around it that I can see through the crowds of Atlanteans are covered in what looks like… Alright, it looks like total scrawl to me, but I'm sure that it's all very clever.

"-progress?"

Sephtian worms through the crowd of his colleagues, right hand raised to draw my attention. Last time something like this happened I transitioned him out, and got a thorough telling off for using pseudo-arcane devices in a controlled laboratory. This time I just wait patiently until he has managed to free himself.

"Some."

"Can you.. be more precise?"

"Yes. Essentially-" He turns towards the centre of the.. Device. "-that is not a normal fruit."

I smile uncertainly. "Yes?"

"In.. point of fact I am uncertain that it is a fruit at all. Are you familiar with the use of…" He trails off, looking me over and weighing up my probable knowledge base. "Concept reinforcement?"

"Yes, I sometimes eat at a vodun restaurant where they enhance the food with the idea of the food. Is that what you-?"

"Ah! Yes, just so. I will have to try-." He closes his eyes for a moment, and glowing lines appear over his scalp. Some of those I actually recognise. "It is far easier to-."

"Sephtian, that was an alertness and mental acuity spell. How much sleep have you been getting?"

"My king and country are threatened by Demons. I will sleep once Ms Blaze is ready to defend them." I'm not sure that's.. sensible, but I'm hardly one to talk. "It is far easier to reinforce the strongest characteristics of the thing, and hard to act against those characteristics without destroying the object. For example, I could make an.. iron sword that was far harder and more resilient than an iron sword could normally be, but it would be difficult to make one that was bendy or capable of changing colour. Iron does not bend well, and has a narrow range of colours."

"With you so far. So was.. this pomegranate reinforced with the essence of fruit? Super-antioxidants?"

"No, no. That was my original thought, but… No. I do not believe that the tree this fruit grew from began as a seed. The Christians believe that it was created by their god directly?"

"Something like that." I blink. "Wait; was it?"

Half a dozen Atlanteans pull their attention away from what they're working on. "No!"

Sephtian makes a dismissive gesture. "Perhaps. It is impossible to rule out that sort of intervention somewhere, but we are beginning to grasp the process by which it could have happened. Do you know how old the Earth is?"

"Somewhere between four and five billion years, based on isotope decay in rocks."

"I am told that following the chronology of monotheist holy books, the age of the Earth is revealed to be something in the order of seven thousand years. How would you account for the difference?"

"I wouldn't. I would assume that the chronology was bunk, a mismatch of patently false legend and half-remembered history."

"And yet you have been to the Garden of Eden. Do you not now wish to reconsider?"

"No. I saw a forest and a magic bloke with wings. The fact that it matches a creation myth doesn't prove anything. I've met Hera and I don't believe that the Titans created the universe."

"So where did the Garden come from? And why could you still see where the fruit Adam and Eve ate came from? Any normal tree would have either continued to grow or died, and in either case there would have been nothing left to see."

He walks towards the centre of the room, gazing at the fruit.

"I assumed that parts of the garden were in some sort of magic.. suspended animation, only changing if acted on externally. Or maybe just the trees. Why? What do you think was going on?"

"Understand… Any evidence we could collect in the face of a truly omnipotent being could simply be fabricated. And any evidence gathered in the face of an immensely powerful and skilful being is at least suspect."

"Okay..? What's that got to do with concept reinforcement?"

"This fruit is a fruit. Every magic I use upon it to directly understand its nature shows it to be a fruit. But as I look deeper… It does not have certain associations which a normal fruit would. And there are associations which are strange to see in a fruit."

"Like what?"

"Soul-impacting traits which we.. think would have the desired effect on Ms Blaze. Fruit have little to do with moral development in conventional situations. But more than that, there is a faint trace of the Dreaming upon it."

"Seven thousand years' worth of stories and three major world religions, centred around an inherently arcane location. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some-."

"That… That could cause it. But our calculations show that other possibilities are far more likely."

"Does the doorway I passed through lead to the Dreaming? Is that where the Garden actually is? There's a portal in Erebos, but I didn't have any reason to look at it."

"Possibly. Or perhaps it was brought into the world from the Dreaming. A manifestation of the idea of Eden becoming the reality of Eden."

"Is that just your favourite theory, or is it actually the most likely one?"

"My favourite. Are you certain they will not let us study it directly?"

"They wouldn't agree to it. Is there a great need to force the issue?"

"Perhaps-? No. Truly, no. Not so far as this task is concerned. It is just that it is possible, and it is such a fascinating application of Dreaming magic. With the Dreaming itself becoming more stable in the last few decades, this fruit may open an entirely new field of study."

"But back to the matter at hand..?"

"The Dreaming magic is too poorly studied in cases like this for us to attempt the transformation synthetically. The only thing for Ms Blaze to do is to decide whether or not she wishes to eat the fruit."

"Will it kill her?"

"I do not think so, but I have not studied her for long enough to say for certain. If she agrees, I will prepare the wings for chirurgery."

"You're sure you know how to do that?"

"Attaching the wings is simple. I do not know enough about theurgy to know how attaching wings to a humanoid body could allow them to fly, but I assume that it is an innate magic that I would need to study directly to understand. The Angel blood has some interesting alchemical and biological properties, but I do not believe that it will present a problem."

"I'll let her know. How long will you need to prepare?"

Click to shrink...

Plus here the atlanteans are working on the conceptual association of the fruit, which probably involves essential numerical connection strengths and explanations of the concepts involved that are likely familiar to him, if not in the pure arcane sense.

 

[bobsimmo]

Yes? I live near Eastbourne. I don't know about you, but I think in that situation I'd check somewhere familiar rather than somewhere unfamiliar.

Click to shrink...

It's more "oh no, the most populous country on the planet might no longer exist, let's check for eastbourne"

The mismatch amuses me, however accurate it is.

 

[Mquz]

It's more "oh no, the most populous country on the planet might no longer exist, let's check for eastbourne"

The mismatch amuses me, however accurate it is.

Click to shrink...

China exists, just no lantern there.

 

[TheEyes]

Okayyyy...Unless he is planning to offer cosmetic animal mods I don't see a lot of application for her work, unless she swerves over to "general genetic repair/enhancement without animal elements".

Click to shrink...

If human-human splicing is a thing, we could be talking about a way to ensure that transplants are safe, reliable, and assured compatible, rather than the crapshoot they are now. From there you can possibly open an entirely new branch of medical science, where failing or diseased organs can be (relatively) easily replaced, rather than crudely patched.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

Besides, Peter's not really inventing anything, he's going to be the capital and majority shareholder in the company that he funds. And in England. He probably will try to have something to protect himself, but that doesn't mean he will go out of his way to befriend superheroes or fight supervillains.

Click to shrink...

In this, I can only say that doesn't matter. Some supervillain will hear about his company, and it's revolutionary new powering device and go "Ah! If I plug that into my inverted proton anti-matter reverser smasher it will generate beam o'fuck death! The world will be mine!"

 

[ForeverShogo]

Part of the reason splicing in Batman Beyond was made illegal was because it had negative side effects on those who got spliced. Usually in the form of behavioral problems.

People tended to become more wild and violent as they added more and more animal features to themselves.

It wasn't really a problem for people that did pretty minor cosmetic stuff, like Terry's classmate that got cat eyes or a rock star who decided she wanted a snake tongue, but the people who basically tried to live out their furry fetish? Very prone to starting shit.

Just another example of something going bad if you take it too far.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Hinon here is modelling the behaviour of the orange light and a soul, so I imagine that Paul has some instinctive non-verbal understanding of what it refers to?
I'm not sure though, so that's your call.

Click to shrink...

He does, but that notation is Maltusian emotional range friendly.

Plus here the atlanteans are working on the conceptual association of the fruit, which probably involves essential numerical connection strengths and explanations of the concepts involved that are likely familiar to him, if not in the pure arcane sense.

Click to shrink...

If you throw a ball at me I can probably catch it, but if you showed my the notation relating to the ball's movement through the air I probably wouldn't understand it.

Part of the reason splicing in Batman Beyond was made illegal was because it had negative side effects on those who got spliced. Usually in the form of behavioral problems.

People tended to become more wild and violent as they added more and more animal features to themselves.

It wasn't really a problem for people that did pretty minor cosmetic stuff, like Terry's classmate that got cat eyes or a rock star who decided she wanted a snake tongue, but the people who basically tried to live out their furry fetish? Very prone to starting shit.

Just another example of something going bad if you take it too far.

Click to shrink...

I rather got the impression that the people who did that were arseholes anyway, and the splicing just gave them an outlet.

 

[Lord Ernest]

In this, I can only say that doesn't matter. Some supervillain will hear about his company, and it's revolutionary new powering device and go "Ah! If I plug that into my inverted proton anti-matter reverser smasher it will generate beam o'fuck death! The world will be mine!"

Click to shrink...

Oh, I definitely agree, the company itself may attract the attention of supposedly 'savvy' Supervillains, maybe even some lingering enemies of Starman and his family. But does that really correlate to them trying to attack and/or involve Peter? I mean, is not like the guy carries one of the power generators based on the Cosmic Converter technology with him everywhere, is it? And as we see with even the Illustres, he doesn't believe himself to be the best at administration and/or organization so probably the day to day operations of his company don't go directly through him, he probably hired somebody for that.

In that sense, Peter is probably the founder and major shareholder of his company, so major decisions and the acquiring of new 'assets' (i.e. Supervillains and/or their technology) may come through him. I think he would be in more danger from regular criminals that might want to kidnap him or rob him, than from Supervillains, who we know aren't the most savvy of individuals in how to acquire money. At least that's my impression with that timeline.

 

[TheEyes]

In that sense, Peter is probably the founder and major shareholder of his company, so major decisions and the acquiring of new 'assets' (i.e. Supervillains and/or their technology) may come through him. I think he would be in more danger from regular criminals that might want to kidnap him or rob him, than from Supervillains, who we know aren't the most savvy of individuals in how to acquire money. At least that's my impression with that timeline.

Click to shrink...

I dunno; "kidnap the founder of X" seems like a pretty common plotline in DCAU. Peter would mainly keep out of the limelight by not being based in the US, where most supervillany seems to happen, although he might have heard something about that time Red Claw attempted to steal one of the UK's nukes.

 

[ForeverShogo]

Well, to be fair, I am mostly going off the wiki for splicing. Where it says it was declared illegal due to it having harmful side effects. And the actual Batman Beyond episode about splicing has the following: On a vertical train, a newscast shows that D.A. Sam Young is working to stop the practice of splicing as it causes an increase in aggressive behavior.

 

[Jirachi]

He does, but that notation is Maltusian emotional range friendly.

If you throw a ball at me I can probably catch it, but if you showed my the notation relating to the ball's movement through the air I probably wouldn't understand it.

I rather got the impression that the people who did that were arseholes anyway, and the splicing just gave them an outlet.

Click to shrink...

For the first one, isn't part of the basic function of the translator to translate out of culturally specific thought process and such? Like, Paul talked about translation difficulties with say, military ranks, and offered examples of translating out of the idiosyncrasies of how much of Earth's military works, and that is something that a universal translator would cover it. As long as it encodes the same information, I would assume it would translate it, irregardless of factors like that.
I was thinking it more in the context of if you saw the full term definitions. (As a side note, you'd probably vaguely recognize it, becuase the relevant mathematics is high school math you probably would have worked with quite a bit). You'd see there is a 'height' term, you'd see there is a time term, an acceleration term, even if some of the manipulations and the 'whys' might escape you, there would be far from zero information you could derive from that.

 

[Pinklestia]

Well, to be fair, I am mostly going off the wiki for splicing. Where it says it was declared illegal due to it having harmful side effects. And the actual Batman Beyond episode about splicing has the following: On a vertical train, a newscast shows that D.A. Sam Young is working to stop the practice of splicing as it causes an increase in aggressive behavior.

Click to shrink...

Gotta point out almost everyone doing it was teens.

And that none of them went to therapy to get used to the changes.

But whatever, the fact it was a supervillain doing it probably means no one will try to make it legal again for decades.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Gotta point out almost everyone doing it was teens.

And thst none of them went to therapy to get used to the changes.

But whatever, the fact it was a supervillain doing it probably means no one will try to make it legal again for decades.

Click to shrink...

I was wondering about that. Even in dystopian Batman of the Future future, can the American government have the right to compel people who have been spliced to alter their bodies back?