With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Aeess]

I'm fairly confident that Paul doesn't have a Motherbox and that he currently has no viable means of acquiring one, so it's kind of a moot point here.

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Canis has one and Paul knows multiple smithing gods, super scientists and magical researchers, that reverse engineering it should be possible.

 

[narukaze132]

Canis has one and Paul knows multiple smithing gods, super scientists and magical researchers, that reverse engineering it should be possible.

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... OK, I'll be honest, I had forgotten about Canis. But... reverse engineering Mother Box? I mean, I don't know much about them, but based on what I do know, I'd argue that the odds of doing that without an engineering-inclined New God are slim to nil. Plus, his contacts are extremely busy with other projects, and I don't think they have time to do this too. And I'm not sure if all of them would be comfortable experimenting on a sentient being, and Mother Box is definitely sentient. (In fact, I seriously doubt Paul would be comfortable with that.)

Plus, it's still not exactly relevant here; even if he asks his allies to reverse-engineer one, he still doesn't have one right now, and that project probably wouldn't bear fruit for years, if ever.

 

[transhumansage]

It's almost like one guy can't solve generations of slavery and war by himself in a way that makes everybody happy.

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the problem isn't solved in a day. it will take time. one man with pauls abilities can do it but it takes time

 

[Mr Zoat]

Canis has one and Paul knows multiple smithing gods, super scientists and magical researchers, that reverse engineering it should be possible.

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A God of Smithing is not going to understand a Source-based god-computer. Not within a sensible time frame. If the SI wanted one he would be better advised to make a deal with Himon.

 

[Siskulous]

Also, the Scroll of Icarian Flight could function as a poor man's fast travel, if you had a way to cast Slow Fall and good timing.

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I pulled that off exactly once. And I didn't end up anywhere near where I was trying to. I do remember, however, being entirely too amused by Icarian Flight.

"Troops! When you leave here, you will be the best trained riflemen in the world! And to ensure this, here is a javelin. Once you have mastered it, you will advance onto slingshots!"

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There was an article somewhere - I forget where - that mentioned that wizards are still at an apprentice level of skill until about level 5. Which, really, reflects the power scale of the class in older versions of D&D pretty well. A low level wizard was worthless, but around level 7 they started to be powerhouses, and by 12th level the wizard easily had the most damage output per round on average and often had the best AC too so long as they weren't caught unprepared.

Of course, that doesn't hold true in 5e. Everything's nice and balanced from level 1 to level 20 now and there's no more Epic Level Handbook for the power gamers to play with.

 

[Aeess]

A God of Smithing is not going to understand a Source-based god-computer.

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Sure, but they should be capable of making Element X(even if not easily), which is what neither the scientist nor the mages would manage.

If the SI wanted one he would be better advised to make a deal with Himon.

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I was under the impression that new gods dont really hand those out to mortals.

 

[Aeess]

... OK, I'll be honest, I had forgotten about Canis. But... reverse engineering Mother Box? I mean, I don't know much about them, but based on what I do know, I'd argue that the odds of doing that without an engineering-inclined New God are slim to nil. Plus, his contacts are extremely busy with other projects, and I don't think they have time to do this too. And I'm not sure if all of them would be comfortable experimenting on a sentient being, and Mother Box is definitely sentient. (In fact, I seriously doubt Paul would be comfortable with that.)

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Have you seen earth? The kind of magic and technology that gets regularly developed on earth, should make it the one place in the universe where doing that is possible. And them being busy isn't really a reason not to do that, considering how many possibility mother boxes would offer them and how much easier it would make their future projects. And I dont really think ethics are a concern, when you have power rings and magic, that make studying without harming it possible.

Plus, it's still not exactly relevant here; even if he asks his allies to reverse-engineer one, he still doesn't have one right now, and that project probably wouldn't bear fruit for years, if ever.

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Yeah, but considering his long term plans, this situation is going to come up again.

 

[Ganurath]

I can't but wonder if the Gordanians immediately behind the Gizzard Spikers in power would be more amenable.

I pulled that off exactly once. And I didn't end up anywhere near where I was trying to. I do remember, however, being entirely too amused by Icarian Flight.

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The trick is to have a Slow Fall spell that only has a single point of potency (the minimum to prevent fall damage, with no notable reduction on fall speed) in favor of focusing on duration.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I was under the impression that new gods don't really hand those out to mortals.

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They don't, but Himon is running a resistance on Apokolips. He needs resources, somewhere safe to resettle people and I'm not sure that the SI counts as mortal any longer.

I can't but wonder if the Gordanians immediately behind the Gizzard Spikers in power would be more amenable.

The trick is to have a Slow Fall spell that only has a single point of potency (the minimum to prevent fall damage, with no notable reduction on fall speed) in favor of focusing on duration.

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Would levitate for 1 second work?

 

[Jormuungaand]

Would levitate for 1 second work?

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If you have good reflexes and no ill-timed loading delays, yes

 

[Ganurath]

Would levitate for 1 second work?

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It'd stop you in the air wherever the spell was cast, and you'd start falling from that height when the spell ended, so it'd depend on how close to the ground you were when the spell went off.

 

[Stsword]

... OK, I'll be honest, I had forgotten about Canis. But... reverse engineering Mother Box?

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New God technology ain't that special in DC.

Anarky makes his own boom tubes.

Father Time had SHADE turn the remains of Gonzo the Mechanical Bastard into an Orphan Box.

Cyborg, in the movies, YJ season 3, and post flashpoint, had a 'box integrated into his cybernetics.

In Bug!, OMAC's Brother Eye satellite is built around a Brother Box, and similarly post flashpoint Kevin Kho was turned into OMAC by Cadmus messing with New God technology.

In Final Crisis, Darkseid likens the Miracle Machine, a device ultimately created by the Controllers, to a 'Box. He called it a "cargo cult" version.

Which is funny, since in Bug! it was revealed that New Gods don't actually know how 'boxes work. According to Bug!, they are not computers, but divine on star systems basically. Mrs The Source puts the Mother in Motherbox. Let's hope that New Gods don't use them for reading bad fanfics and watching porn....

 

[Jirachi]

22nd October
07:17 GMT +8

"Just.. in case." He shrugs grandly. "The Zheng He is rather expensive, and is protected against most predictable forms of attack. And -as was pointed out- I am quite skilled at reacting to unpredicted forms of attack. I'm sure that it has absolutely nothing to do with Lord Lord Fate replenishing the wards around Chengdu and wanting me out of the way."

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You accidentally said 'Lord' twice here.

They don't, but Himon is running a resistance on Apokolips. He needs resources, somewhere safe to resettle people and I'm not sure that the SI counts as mortal any longer.

Would levitate for 1 second work?

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I mean, at minimum he is magically speaking an enlightened transubstantial mystic, and if interpreted generously a fledging divine being / elemental of avarice. I'd assume that he doesn't really count as a mortal in the way that gods and other powerful magic beings don't.
I do think it'd likely be wise to reach out to new genesis. Both of them have things to offer each other, are decent people (maybe? I'm not sure about new genesis) and a reason to trade.
Wonder how much hephastus's domain stretches to making say, Qwa swords and power rings (which seem to be 'forged', and don't seem to *nesscarily* require intricate technological components).

 

[Buggy123]

You accidentally said 'Lord' twice here.

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That's intentional; I don't remember where it was explained, but iirc its a jab at Fate, because he was "Lord Fate" before he was made a Lord by the government, so "Lord Lord Fate".

 

[Mastigos2]

It's almost like one guy can't solve generations of slavery and war by himself in a way that makes everybody happy.

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Sure he can: "But sir! How does releasing hundreds of millions of snakes on the planet solve anyt..." Brand: "You want exactly this situation." Brand: "I want exactly this situation" "Everybody is now happy. I should get more snakes"

 

[DrThoth]

I wonder if the Paragon's associates on Earth can, if not reverse-engineer a New God Box, then create something analogous to it.

They have Source-based theurgy in the form of Angelica and her wings (do the feathers regenerate if plucked now that they're attached to a host?). They have Construct Lantern Morrow (as far as I remember) who created elemental-AIs apparently all by himself. Serling Roquette provides conventional human nanotechnology if necessary. Hephaestus and Vulcan both have Metal elementals possessing physical bodies of metal, which I believe they helped create (in mythology Hephaestus basically built and animated Pandora, I believe, possibly with other gods to help with the animation). If you get the Sivanas involved then anything is possible.

I think the pieces of a magitech AI revolution (a term which I think describes Mother Box well) are all there and could feasibly be brought together to make something similar to Boxes- seeing them draw on different elemental forces would also be interesting.

I also believe that, narratively speaking, Renegade possessing a Mother Box precludes Paragon getting one to maintain a level of distinction between their characters/resources/MOs.

 

[TheMidnightRook]

Sure he can: "But sir! How does releasing hundreds of millions of snakes on the planet solve anyt..." Brand: "You want exactly this situation." Brand: "I want exactly this situation" "Everybody is now happy. I should get more snakes"

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For some reason, mind controlling an entire civilization as a quick fix seems like a bad idea...

Spoiler: Oh, that's why

 

[Buggy123]

For some reason, mind controlling an entire civilization as a quick fix seems like a bad idea...

Spoiler: Oh, that's why

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"Why yes, lets have a off-button on the thing keeping several billion people from ripping each other limb-from-limb in the streets. That sounds like a great idea!"

See, this is why you make sure it's permanent.

 

[Ganurath]

For some reason, mind controlling an entire civilization as a quick fix seems like a bad idea...

Spoiler: Oh, that's why

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That's only if the mind controller gets drunk, though, and Paul's British roots ensure that he'll be a tea totalitarian.

 

[Maxx Crowley]

That's only if the mind controller gets drunk, though, and Paul's British roots ensure that he'll be a tea totalitarian.

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No need. He just needs to utilize his innate English powers. A cunning use of flags.

 

[Mr Zoat]

8th February
19:28 GMT

As we finally fly over the horizon I dismiss the positron beam projector constructs I had been pointing at the orbiting Karnan fleet. I'll… Hold off pointing one at the gordanians for the moment. If they start shooting me I'm just going to wreck the whole miserable lot of them and claim Gordane for the Orange Lantern Corps. Or maybe for Tamaran? It would be a fig leaf either way, but it would put me in a position to negotiate.

I wonder how many gordanians there are?

"Do either of you know what the total gordanian population is?"

The older female purses her lips. Puzzlement. "The total in our clan..?"

"No, your species. How many in total?"

"How would anyone know that? How many of your species are there?"

"About six billion. Most advanced countries maintain accurate censuses, but some places can't or can't keep them accurate."

Her lips smooth. "Oh. We.. don't keep that sort of record. There's probably someone in our clan who knows how many adults we have, but no one keeps records for all of the clans."

Gordanians have never had a unified government, so… Yes, I suppose that it makes sense that centralised data-gathering never became a thing. Frustrating as that is for me.

"Would anyone know how many karnans are on Gordane?"

"I doubt it. I don't even think that the clans would know. Individual overseers will know how many work for them."

"If in the years to come, any gordanians ask how you lost, consider your inability to answer those questions."

"I'm a farm overseer. What could I have done with that information?"

"Started improving your relations with members of other clans once Citadel Complex was destroyed, with a view to improving gordanian unity in the face of the loss of a major ally."

"Why would knowing how many of us there are help with that?"

"Being more aware of the state of the region and the gordanians' place in it would inform your decision making."

The other gordanian -a young female- lashes her tail from side to side in frustration. "He's right. The strength of the clan is the strength of all of its members. How is anyone supposed to do what's best for everyone if they don't know what it is?"

The older is from Stone Turner and the younger from Meat Barter. That might explain why she gets it: Meat Barter are so legitimate that they're allowed to trade in civilised places. She's probably had a good deal more exposure to alien ways of thinking than the miners and farmers of Stone Turner. I.. had thought that Meat Barter only maintained a token presence on Karna itself. Odd that she got caught up in this.

"Did you know that the karnans still had a fleet?"

"Yes." / "Yes."

"In that case, why weren't clan elders making pacts with other Vega powers? They should have known that someone might take a swing at you with the Citadel gone. Amalak would have taken a defence contract. There are probably Branx consortia in the same position as you who would form mutual defence pacts. There-."

No. They probably don't know that the Crown Imperium is sponsoring the karnans, and… It might make things more difficult if I shared that information.

"Was plenty of time for the clans to agree to cooperate amongst themselves. Heck, if the anti-Citadel clans had ganged up on Gizzard Spiker before the Karnans arrived, they might have been prepared to negotiate from the start. Or I could have come to Karna after I blew up the Citadel Complex and browbeaten you people into reforming. There were all sorts of things that could have been done. This is the result of actions taken and not taken by a lot of people."

And there's the coastline. And the anti-air emplacements, bunkers and soldiers…

"Orange Lantern Illustres to Council of Clan Chiefs. I'm here to try and bring about a negotiated settlement between you and the karnans. If you're not interested in hearing me out, please start shooting now so that we don't waste one another's time."

…

Well, no one's shooting yet. I suppose that getting in touch with the emergency government-. Ring, that message did go somewhere, right?

Confirmed. Message played through the speakers in the Council's meeting room.

And thus neatly bypassed whatever layers of bureaucracy the gordanians actually have. However, they've now got to argue amongst themselves, and I doubt that Gizzard Spiker are going to be eager to meet the man who blew up their strongest ally. Still, if they ordered anyone to shoot it was immediately countermanded.

"Is there anyone either of you want to talk to before we meet the Council?"

"No." The older tilts her head to the right for a moment. "Representatives of our clans will be there, or what happens to us won't really matter very much."

"As you will."

The guns don't track us as we pass over the beach and head inland. Gordane tends towards a few large cities and vast areas of scrubby wasteland, as opposed to Karettah's speckling of small villages and large swathes of cultivated land. Not too much in the way of roads again because everything flies, though I can see where there are old roads that have fallen into disuse and disrepair. The city where my ring is telling me the Council is meeting is a short distance inland, a little way back from the mouth of a large river. From here I can see the large factory complexes and… Chimneys? No, cooling towers, which reach up into the sky, as well as the slight distortion from the anti-orbital force field. And the shapes of many anti-ship weapon emplacements.

There are some gordanian fighter craft around, but attack craft aren't a big part of gordanian fleet composition any more than they are Citadelian. No, that's-. Gordanians are perfectly intelligent. They can pilot that sort of ship, but they're just as bulky as Okaarans and Citadelians and are evolved from ground-dwelling reptiles. Or… Engineered from ground-dwelling reptiles by the psions. Even compared to humans they just don't have the instinct for it, and unlike with the karnans their computers are too primitive to make up for it.

"Council Convenor Rowk to Orange Lantern Illustres. We will meet with you. Come at once."

"On my way."

I end the communication. Demanding that I do anything is a bit rich, but I'm not petty enough to call him out on it. Not when the future of his species' viability is at stake. Or… Maybe that's just how gordanians talk, or maybe he thinks clearing his schedule to meet me at once is doing me a favour? I don't know enough about gordanian culture to assume either way.

The Council is meeting in a fortified bunker located on the landward side of the city, its force field gleaming in the light. It's clearly highly resilient and the soldiers guarding it are professionally comported and equipped. The partially disassembled wrecks of several star ships which litter the area around it rather undermine that, but there was a good deal of fighting around here recently so I shouldn't be too surprised.

"There."

The young gordanian I'm pulling along with me points to a small squad, the leader of which is waving me down.

"Thank you. Down we go."

"Thank Auron."

We land, myself at the front and my passengers just behind me. The head of the escort detail trudges over. His armour is far heavier than that of the militia unit on Karettah and incorporates a winged flight pack.

"Orange Lantern Illustres and witnesses, here to see the Council."

"Yes." He looks us over, perhaps wondering if he could get away with asking us to disarm. "When you're in there, don't make any sudden moves. We don't plan on starting anything, but things are on edge right now."

"Yes, I noticed. But don't worry. If I wanted to start anything then this place would already be a hole in the ground. Lead on, would you?"

 

[theaceoffire]

But don't worry. If I wanted to start anything then this place would already be a hole in the ground.

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Ah, 'Big Stick Diplomacy' at it's finest.

 

[Handlewithcare]

On the one hand the Gordanians are obvious dicks.

On the other, they are a species engineered by a bunch of sociopaths and this short conversation and their puzzlement over simple census keeping reveals how inexperienced they are.

They are like feral children who no one ever taught how to behave.

 

[Buggy123]

Ah, 'Big Stick Diplomacy' at it's finest.

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It really smooths out the whole diplomatic process when someone who could fight both sides at once and win takes a personal interest.


Actually, wait, do they know that? It should be fairly obvious given that he's the reason that the Citadel isn't, but I don't think we know how widely his involvement is known.

 

[zerofarad]

It's clearly high resilient

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Possibly "highly"?

Six instances have "gordanians" where I expected "gordanian":

"Do either of you know what the total gordanians population is?"

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If in the years to come, any gordanians asks how you lost

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improving gordanians unity in the face of the loss of a major ally

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The other gordanians -a young female- lashes her tail from side to side in frustration.

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There are some gordanians fighter craft around

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I don't know enough about gordanians culture to assume either way.

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[Chojin Patriarch]

As we finally fly over the horizon I dismiss the positron beam projector constructs I had been pointing at the orbiting Karnan fleet. I'll… Hold off pointing one at the gordanians for the moment. If they start shooting me I'm just going to wreck the whole miserable lot of them and claim Gordane for the Orange Lantern Corps. Or maybe for Tamaran? It would be a fig leaf either way, but it would put me in a position to negotiate.

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IT would be karmic justicve for Tamaran's suffering, but I'm not sure they'd know what to do with it...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"Do either of you know what the total gordanians population is?"

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Unnecessary plural: 'gordanian'

...but some places can't or can't keep them accurate."

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...but some places can't or won't keep them accurate."
(Assuming that's what you meant.)

Gordanians have never had a unified government, so… Yes, I suppose that it makes sense that centralised data-gathering never became a thing. Frustrating as that is for me.

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Eh, I'm not surprised, given the clan-based culture.

"If in the years to come, any gordanians asks how you lost, consider your inability to answer those questions."

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Logistics are the most important part of any war...

"Started improving your relations with members of other clans once Citadel Complex was destroyed, with a view to improving gordanians unity in the face of the loss of a major ally."

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Another unnecessary plural (or missing a collective possessive apostrophe).

The other gordanians -a young female- lashes her tail from side to side in frustration. "He's right. The strength of the clan is the strength of all of its members. How is anyone supposed to do what's best for everyone if they don't know what it is?"

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That plural again...

The older is from Stone Turner and the younger from Meat Barter. That might explain why she gets it: Meat Barter are so legitimate that they're allowed to trade in civilised places. She's probably had a good deal more exposure to alien ways of thinking that the miners and farmers of Stone Turner. I.. had thought that Meat Barter only maintained a token presence on Karna itself. Odd that she got caught up in this.

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Someone's got to handle trade on the homeworld...

"In that case, why weren't clan elders making pacts with other Vega powers? They should have known that someone might take a swing at you with the Citadel gone. Amalak would have taken a defence contract. There are probably Branx consortia in the same position as you who would form mutual defence pacts. There-."

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Again, that clan-first mentality. "Who cares about others as long as we're fine?"

"Orange Lantern Illustres to Council of Clan Chiefs. I'm here to try and bring about a negotiated settlement between you and the karnans. If you're not interested in hearing me out, please start shooting now so that we don't waste one another's time."

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How very Renegade of you.

Confirmed. Message played through the speakers in the Council's meeting room.

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Going straight to the top. Bet there's a few browned seats there.

There are some gordanians fighter craft around...

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Unnecessary plural again.

No, that's-. Gordanians are perfectly intelligent. They can pilot that sort of ship, but they're just as bulky as Okaarans and Citadelians and are evolved from ground-dwelling reptiles. Or… Engineered from ground-dwelling reptiles by the psions. Even compared to humans they just don't have the instinct for it, and unlike with the karnans their computers are too primitive to make up for it.

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They prefer their feet on the ground, and their enemies' throats in their grasp.

"Council Convenor Rowk to Orange Lantern Illustres. We will meet with you. Come at once."

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Brusque. Betting there'll be some bad tempers ahead.

I don't know enough about gordanians culture to assume either way.

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Do I even need to say it?

"Thank Auron."

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Not enjoying the flight, I bet.

"Yes." He looks us over, perhaps wondering if he could get away with asking us to disarm. "When you're in there, don't make any sudden moves. We don't plan on starting anything, but things are on edge right now."

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That depends on your leader's tempers.

"Yes, I noticed. But don't worry. If I wanted to start anything then this place would already be a hole in the ground. Lead on, would you?"

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How American... But the big stick's necessary to beat some sense into thick heads.

Next update: lots of shouting politicians, I bet.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Possibly "highly"?

Six instances have "gordanians" where I expected "gordanian":

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One was correct, but otherwise, thank you, corrected.

...but some places can't or can't keep them accurate."
...but some places can't or won't keep them accurate."
(Assuming that's what you meant.)

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No, it's: can't do censuses or can't keep them accurate.

 

[Citizen]

But don't worry. If I wanted to start anything then this place would already be a hole in the ground.

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I like his diplomatic circumlocutions. Where have I heard the like before?

 

[Bigreader]

but some places can't or can't keep them accurate."

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Won't kerp them.

 

[Ngamer11]

Mr Zoat, random question: Is Black Lightning married to John Stewart's sister? If yes, that could be a way to introduce him to the story. I just like him in YJ season 3 and would like to see him here too.