With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Aeess]

I hope we eventually see a chapter where Paul makes up, or makes neutral with Zeus. Dude wants to spend his afterlife in the fields, hanging around Hades' court, or getting back up out and about. He won't be able to do that if Zeus decides that a stronger punishment is necessary.

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Kinda hard to do, since Paul isn't even a little bit sorry and Zeus would see right through any apology that isn't sincere.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

"We could always ask the furies about it."

"That's outside my-." / "No we could not."

Garth is a little taken aback by Linda's vehemence. I'm not all that sure where it comes from, either. I'd have thought that she'd be fine with massive violence being meted out to the deserving. From what she said, I don't think that she's quite that empathic towards us humans.

"Would you care to elaborate?"

"Summoning the furies requires materials which I hope that you would be unwilling to assemble, and are inclined to strike out against all of those they consider 'guilty'. Alecto punishes moral crimes."

"'But I tell you, everyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.'"

"Jesus would have counselled the lustful party to reflect upon their actions and modify their conduct. He would not violently castrate them and parade their severed genitals around the town."

"I said 'consult', but alright. If you're sure that they can't be persuaded to curb their enthusiasm, we'll leave that option until last." I begin striding northwards, in the direction of the closest cemetery. "Graveyard's this way."

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Mr Para-paul while I'm fairly sure you could kill/contain the furies It's probably best not to poke that bear.

 

[RichardWhereat]

Kinda hard to do, since Paul isn't even a little bit sorry and Zeus would see right through any apology that isn't sincere.

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No. It would be hard to apologise for taking the actions he's taken given that he's happy he took them. It would not be hard to apologise for not taking his actions in a wiser method, and for not thinking things through, and for insulting the gods. Insulting the gods, that right there breaks one of the few rules of the ancient greek religion. He will eventually be judged on it.

Talking through what he's actually sorry about, and asking Zeus for a suitable penance, that he can achieve while alive, instead of waiting until he's dead and potentially completely subject to Zeus's wrath, is something entirely different. I agree that lying would be stupid. But any good politician knows how to apologise without accepting any of the blame.

"I grew up in a society where what I did was encouraged, and did not stop to think about how that society, and the religion I chose are at odds here. I'm sorry that you felt that.. ,
"As the God of Honour, and Justice, the Keeper of Oaths, I have no doubt you are able see how your actions were hurting your sister.. " et cetera. There're so many ways a good writer could work it without having him be disingenuous.

The Labours of Pavlos would be an awesome episode. Furthering the spread of Hellenism, building temples to the major 12, anything really. It's just a shame to see a plot line waving in the wind, and not yet tied back into the story. Especially when the greek stuff here is so damned interesting. It looks like Zoat has had Hades hint towards his being judged in the future, with Paul being Mr Oblivious. So I know it'll happen, eventually. I just really wanna see it. I wanna I wanna I wanna.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

No. It would be hard to apologise for taking the actions he's taken given that he's happy he took them. It would not be hard to apologise for not taking his actions in a wiser method, and for not thinking things through, and for insulting the gods. Insulting the gods, that right there breaks one of the few rules of the ancient greek religion. He will eventually be judged on it.

Talking through what he's actually sorry about, and asking Zeus for a suitable penance, that he can achieve while alive, instead of waiting until he's dead and potentially completely subject to Zeus's wrath, is something entirely different. I agree that lying would be stupid. But any good politician knows how to apologise without accepting any of the blame.

"I grew up in a society where what I did was encouraged, and did not stop to think about how that society, and the religion I chose are at odds here. I'm sorry that you felt that.. ,
"As the God of Honour, and Justice, the Keeper of Oaths, I have no doubt you are able see how your actions were hurting your sister.. " et cetera. There're so many ways a good writer could work it without having him be disingenuous.

The Labours of Pavlos would be an awesome chapter, or arc. Furthering the spread of Hellenism, building temples to the major 12, anything really. It's just a shame to see a plot line waving in the wind, and not yet tied back into the story. Especially when the greek stuff here is so damned interesting. It looks like Zoat has had Hades hint towards his being judged in the future, with Paul being Mr Oblivious. So I know it'll happen, eventually. I just really wanna see it. I wanna I wanna I wanna.

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Holy shit I'm hyped for that right now especially since hubris was an important part of Ancient Greek myth and paul has that in spades

 

[w34v3r]

Is it really hubris when you are better than the gods though?

 

[RichardWhereat]

Is it really hubris when you are better than the gods though?

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Yes. The Greek word for sin, hamartia, originally meant "error" in the ancient dialect, and so poets like Hesiod and Aeschylus used the word "hubris" to describe transgressions against the gods.

That's where the modern definition and the religious use of the word come into conflict.

 

[jonasquinn]

To be fair Paul is functionally immortal so he has potentially centuries before he has to worry about dying and even then there's a good chance that with the sudden flow of alien souls Hades might actually be more powerful than Zeus and/or the Ophidian just won't accept Paul not being in her domain

 

[rdfox]

Linda might actually want to consider the US Army as a possible career path. Yes, she'd have to work well with humans, and yes, she'd have to go through basic training without using her superpowers to mulch her drill instructors, but I suspect that she'd enjoy being part of the Corps of Engineers. After all, if you ask any member of the CoE what they do for a living, they'll explain that, primarily, they train for their two combat roles by practicing building things, then practicing blowing them up.

The "building things" part wouldn't be that much to Linda's liking, but I bet she'd thoroughly enjoy the Demolitions part of the job. After all, the credo of the combat engineer is, "There is no problem in life that cannot be solved by a properly sized, shaped, placed, timed, fused, and triggered explosive charge."

 

[Steelplaza]

Kinda hard to do, since Paul isn't even a little bit sorry and Zeus would see right through any apology that isn't sincere.

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I suppose that depends on if Zeus requires sincerity or if the gesture of knuckling under through gritted teeth is enough for him.

 

[Gantradies]

No. It would be hard to apologise for taking the actions he's taken given that he's happy he took them. It would not be hard to apologise for not taking his actions in a wiser method, and for not thinking things through, and for insulting the gods. Insulting the gods, that right there breaks one of the few rules of the ancient greek religion. He will eventually be judged on it.

Talking through what he's actually sorry about, and asking Zeus for a suitable penance, that he can achieve while alive, instead of waiting until he's dead and potentially completely subject to Zeus's wrath, is something entirely different. I agree that lying would be stupid. But any good politician knows how to apologise without accepting any of the blame.

"I grew up in a society where what I did was encouraged, and did not stop to think about how that society, and the religion I chose are at odds here. I'm sorry that you felt that.. ,
"As the God of Honour, and Justice, the Keeper of Oaths, I have no doubt you are able see how your actions were hurting your sister.. " et cetera. There're so many ways a good writer could work it without having him be disingenuous.

The Labours of Pavlos would be an awesome episode. Furthering the spread of Hellenism, building temples to the major 12, anything really. It's just a shame to see a plot line waving in the wind, and not yet tied back into the story. Especially when the greek stuff here is so damned interesting. It looks like Zoat has had Hades hint towards his being judged in the future, with Paul being Mr Oblivious. So I know it'll happen, eventually. I just really wanna see it. I wanna I wanna I wanna.

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eh, Zeus is an egotistical cockwaffle of a over-sexed manchild who's lucky his Ex-Wife didnt do onto him what Cronos/Kronos did to his grandfather (violent castration) the nth time he stuck it in a mortal after hollowly promising he wouldn't- by this point, honor or keeping oaths....really isn't -really- his thing- he lost any right to be pissed over Hera divorcing him literal millennia ago, and this isn't the Classical era - the power dynamic paradigm has shifted significantly- he can't get away with wildly smiting mortals in retribution for his own mistakes left and right anymore ...

 

[PrinceJonathan]

In the end it turns out the people here are just assholes

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Or they realized death has a revolving door and were using suicide to visit friends and family on the other side, or take a vacation. They'd eventually come back to life in a week or so, but their returns were never recorded.

 

[Xelloss]

Speaking of Cronos, TIL that Cronos (Κρόνος), Titan and father of Zeus, is different from Chronos (Χρόνος), personnification of time.

 

[Eponymic]

I appreciate the effort you put into managing the Hellenic pantheon, especially considering the hash DC Canon made of it. It's nice to see the Mycenaean, cult, and personal relationship aspects attended to.

Your attention to world building, detail, and history is clear and quite nice. Though, considering his role in rebirth, death, and multiple lives Dionysus seems oddly absent.

 

[Tzeentch]

"We could always ask the furies about it."

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MAIDEN: Oh, DON'T call us "Furies", dear. Not that.

MOTHER: NEVER that.

CRONE: "The Kindly Ones" is much more accurate.... don't you think so too, my precious?

 

[Jiro]

In this universe people have immortal souls which retain sentience without a connection to a brain. If you affect someone's personality or intelligence with a physical change to their body, does that affect their soul too? Or does a criminal affected by a brain modification suddenly want to become a criminal again as soon as he dies? (And if you lost your criminality because of a brain modification, does your afterlife give you credit for that or do you still count as an unreformed ciminal?)

 

[SirKaid]

In this universe people have immortal souls which retain sentience without a connection to a brain. If you affect someone's personality or intelligence with a physical change to their body, does that affect their soul too? Or does a criminal affected by a brain modification suddenly want to become a criminal again as soon as he dies? (And if you lost your criminality because of a brain modification, does your afterlife give you credit for that or do you still count as an unreformed ciminal?)

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The soul in DC is mostly a record of the person it belongs to. If a person had catastrophic brain damage that resulted in a personality shift then their soul would reflect that.

I say "mostly" because there's magic that can alter the body via the soul. It's not purely a one way street.

For the most part, though, the body is the important bit in determining the makeup of the body-soul system.

 

[Stsword]

Speaking of Cronos, TIL that Cronos (Κρόνος), Titan and father of Zeus, is different from Chronos (Χρόνος), personnification of time.

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Except when they are the same person, because Greek myths varied by location and time if not storyteller by storyteller, so the myths were even less consistent than DC comics.

Plutarch Of Isis and Osiris "And they are those that tell us that, as the Greeks are used to allegorize Kronos (or Saturn) into chronos (time), and Hera (or Juno) into aer (air) and also to resolve the generation of Vulcan into the change of air into fire, so also among the Egyptians, Osiris is the river Nile, who accompanies with Isis, which is the earth; and Typhon is the sea, into which the Nile falling is thereby destroyed and scattered, excepting only that part of it which the earth receives and drinks up, by means whereof she becomes prolific."

 

[RichardWhereat]

this isn't the Classical era - the power dynamic paradigm has shifted significantly-

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No. It has not. Zeus is still the King of the greek pantheon, as BestGirl explained it, no matter how powerful Hades grows, Zeus is more powerful still. Also, Hades cannot gainsay Zeus' punishments.

It really doesn't matter your opinions on Zeus, what matters is a happy afterlife experience.

there's a good chance that with the sudden flow of alien souls Hades might actually be more powerful than Zeus

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Zoat wrote BestGirl as saying that Uncle Zeus is more powerful than her dad, no matter what.

The Ophidian being in charge of his afterlife experience is most likely true, yes. But until proven, caution is good.

 

[WorstMirari]

Another shield unit begin closing

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begins

(hi I'm catching up on months of backlog and finally made a qq acc. we still do typo corrections, yeah?)

 

[Mr Zoat]

begins

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Thank you, corrected.

(hi I'm catching up on months of backlog and finally made a qq acc. we still do typo corrections, yeah?)

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...

No?

 

[Aeess]

and even then there's a good chance that with the sudden flow of alien souls Hades might actually be more powerful than Zeus

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I think you misunderstood something, taking souls in doesn't make Hades stronger, in fact each soul reduced is potential poweer because he lets them draw magic from Erberos, which is his own power source, so after taking in millions of souls Zeus actually has the upperhand in any confrontation.

 

[WaleXdraK]

Wait a second, could someone please refresh my memories about the whole feud with Zeus?

 

[Gilhelmi]

I appreciate the effort you put into managing the Hellenic pantheon, especially considering the hash DC Canon made of it. It's nice to see the Mycenaean, cult, and personal relationship aspects attended to.

Your attention to world building, detail, and history is clear and quite nice. Though, considering his role in rebirth, death, and multiple lives Dionysus seems oddly absent.

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I would assume that Dionysus would be most please with Paul. After all, new babies are being born on Thamiscara for the first time in well over a thousand years. Surly those mothers would be rejoicing and praising Dionysus for the new and healthy life. (sure Paul helped, in a mechanical/medical way, but the normal way of reproduction would have produced similar results.)

 

[Gilhelmi]

Wait a second, could someone please refresh my memories about the whole feud with Zeus?

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So Zeus had an affair with Dr. Sandmark, producing little Cassandra Sandmark. This came to light when Paul was talking about the Greek Gods with Diana and he mentioned her. Turns out everyone thought that Zeus was back on the wagon and not having sex with everything with legs. This really hurt Queen Hera (Zeus wife).

Fast forward, Diana helped Paul become a citizen of Thamiscara, and he decided to worship the gods. He choose to worship Eris (goddess of chaos). Then a "mysterious woman" appered to him and asked him to talk to her Aunt who was crying over the whole affair at the temple of Hera. Paul goes and tells her that Hera should divorce Zeus.

Turns out "SURPRISE" the Aunt was Queen Hera herself and the "mysterious woman" was Eris. Hilarity ensued.

For the full transcript, the main arc starts here
https://forum.questionablequesting....stice-si-story-only.8961/page-22#post-2458337

 

[nick012000]

The Labours of Pavlos would be an awesome episode. Furthering the spread of Hellenism, building temples to the major 12, anything really. It's just a shame to see a plot line waving in the wind, and not yet tied back into the story. Especially when the greek stuff here is so damned interesting. It looks like Zoat has had Hades hint towards his being judged in the future, with Paul being Mr Oblivious. So I know it'll happen, eventually. I just really wanna see it. I wanna I wanna I wanna.

Click to shrink...

IIRC the Twelve Labors of Hercules happened because Hercules got enslaved to a king for 12 years as punishment for murdering his wife. It seems plausible that an analogous situation with Paul would involve Zeus just flat-up telling Paul to work for Wonder Woman or Queen Hyppolyta for 12 years or something.

 

[Ardy]

IIRC the Twelve Labors of Hercules happened because Hercules got enslaved to a king for 12 years as punishment for murdering his wife. It seems plausible that an analogous situation with Paul would involve Zeus just flat-up telling Paul to work for Wonder Woman or Queen Hyppolyta for 12 years or something.

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There are so many "servicing royalty" jokes in there

 

[Mr Zoat]

18th February
10:09 GMT -6

"How did they die?"

Daniel Brown's grave is neatly kept, and the flowers in the stand next to the headstone are in good condition. At fifteen, he was one of the younger suicides.

"Shotgun blast to the chest."

"Shotgun?" Garth looks away from the grave and turns his attention to me, his hands about a metre apart. "Aren't shotguns about this long?"

"About that, yes. The pathologist wasn't sure how he pulled it off. Technically, the cause of death was either shock, septic shock or blood loss, but… It's not a way many people would choose to die. It would have been painful and not particularly fast. That's why I mentioned the 'slow and painful' option earlier."

"Are the.. others like that?"

"There's no particular pattern. Drug overdoses, extreme risk-taking and self harm are all common, but over the total number unusual forms like this are more common than the statistical average."

I'm not seeing any black, but then again… I'm not sure that I would. My vision is empathic after all; this corpse isn't feeling anything.

Hm.

"Linda, was this graveyard properly sanctified?"

"That is not for me to determine." She shrugs. "People earnestly pray here with sufficient frequency that it is hallowed enough for most purposes."

Running out of covert ideas.

"Right, the interstate turnoff it is! It's a bit of a hike-" I turn away from the grave. "-but perhaps we-"

There's a boy… Probably in his early teens, standing and watching us from just inside the graveyard. He's slightly overweight, and I feel a pang of sympathy at the sight of the acne covering his face. He's wearing thick-rimmed glasses and his hair is an untidy black mop.

"-can take a bus or something."

And then I feel it, a weak mental probe. It's out of character for a tourist to be able to block things like that, but I really can't take the risk of something like that worming its way into my mind.

Ring, stop putting everything into Greek.

Compliance.

"Good morning!" I smile politely and raise my right hand in greeting.

"I'm trying to look at your thoughts, but I can't see them."

At least he's honest about it.

"I know how to keep telepaths out. Have you heard of a man named Henry King Junior?"

He just sort of stands there, arms held limply at his sides.

Oh. Right.

"Did you.. know Daniel?"

"He was in some of my classes. I knew him, but he didn't know me."

O.. kay…

I open my empathic vision a little, but I'm not really seeing anything particularly unusual. The lack of fear is interesting, but I suppose that if he's known what everyone around him was thinking and could project into them then he wouldn't have much reason to fear other people. Of course, legally that's pretty questionable, but mind reading isn't illegal in most states and mental suggestion… Isn't inherently illegal in most places either. In Oregon it would bump up the severity of an offence but wouldn't be a crime itself unless he actually started puppetting people.

"Do you know why he did this?"

"He was ugly."

Ah… The pictures I saw looked fairly normal to me. But I suppose that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

"Everyone's ugly on the inside. Sometimes they see it."

And of course the problem with a telepath in a non-telepathic species is that, A, there's no one around who can recognise what they're doing and B, there probably aren't any people around who can stop them because you don't have to be a very powerful telepath to ruin most people's days.

Ring?

Nigel Patterson, 15. Good scholastic record. No criminal record.

Of course, if he's telepathic, getting answers to test questions wouldn't be all that hard.

"How do you mean, 'ugly'?"

"They all have things that make them afraid or ashamed. They force them way down inside but they spend so much effort and time pretending that they're not there that things get all muddled. Muddied."

Garth glances at me, his tattoos on low-glow. I give my head a small shake and make a 'stop' gesture with my right hand.

"I see. I'm not like that."

"I can't see your ugliness because you're keeping me out. But it's there, under the shield."

"No, I have this shield because I've fought telepaths and telepathic weapons before. A little over a year ago I was forced to take a good long look at my own ugliness." I shrug. "It's not an issue any more."

Nigel.. shudders, his jowls wobbling in a way I find quite disconcerting.

"Show me."

Okay. Turning off my shields around a telepath. I have practised regaining control in this sort of situation but it's not particularly easy. On the other hand, this boy isn't exactly M'gann, is he? Quick scan of the area for telepathic weapons…

And I relax my mind and let my conscious be free.

I feel the probe and deliberately don't stop it, letting the.. mildly uncomfortable presence touch my thoughts. With an experienced telepath there are ways to encourage them to look in particular places, but… Yes, he isn't examining in a structured way. I feel momentary flashes of feeling and memory as he prods at something he's probably the only person in the state to be able to perceive. I'll need to talk to his parents about getting him some tuition.

And now he's shaking all over.

"Ah, are you alright?"

"It's beau-beau-beautiful."

He gently removes his glasses from his face with his right hand and uses his left to wipe the tears from his eyes. Then his legs give out and he collapses onto his bottom.

I can still feel him on the edge of my mind, just… Feeling me. It's just about the least invasive thing he could do, and I'm… Not sure if I should let him keep doing it or cut him off.

"Nigel, we're a bit busy. Are you going to be alright? Do you want us to phone someone for you?"

"No. I'm fine. Just leave."

I'm unsure, but… I glance at Garth and Linda but get a pair of shrugs.

I restore my resting shields and lead the way out of the graveyard.

 

[Ardy]

Damnit Paul after 2 years you're supposed to be more suspicious than this!!! Telepathy explains all of this and you just happen to find a telepath at the grave of a kid explicitly telling you why the kid would kill himself?

Come on Paul, get your shit together.

 

[King of Frost]

I'm guessing he's too young to be the cause of the increase in suicides, unless it's a weird tradition that gets passed from one telepath to another as time goes on.

 

[thebishop8]

I'll need to talk to his parents about getting his some tuition.

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*him some tuition