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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Sorry about the long question:D

But why would they recruit someone like him anyway, or did Smiley just show up like Klarion and they couldn't get rid of him?
 
I think it's more along the lines of desperate people doing unfortunate things for short term gains because the long term losses won't matter if they lose beforehand, with a side order of supervillain arrogance making them think that they can just kill him once he's outlived his usefulness.
 
Darko said:
Sorry about the long question:D

But why would they recruit someone like him anyway, or did Smiley just show up like Klarion and they couldn't get rid of him?
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I'll save Zoat some time.

In answer to your question: yes.
 
Darko said:
Sorry about the long question:D

But why would they recruit someone like him anyway, or did Smiley just show up like Klarion and they couldn't get rid of him?
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The SI doesn't know.

Assuming that we can take what he said to the SI at face value, it could be because he's changing his approach.
 
It is still a very weak reason seeing as he said that he'll be allowing more but not all advancement to occur in the world.

Will the paragon destroy the Light sometimes in your story?
 
PDV said:
Honestly, speaks well of him. What were the specifics?
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Arranging for people scheduled to be purged to be sent somewhere else, off the books.

So that he could experiment on them.

And give the few survivors to Germania's enemies.

So they could launch paramilitary attacks on its civilian population.
Darko said:
It is still a very weak reason seeing as he said that he'll be allowing more but not all advancement to occur in the world.

Will the paragon destroy the Light sometimes in your story?
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Yes, let me just tell you how it ends.
 
If I recall, it was a difference in the pace of the advancements.

Smiley offered to support Paul if he let the advancements happen at a jog instead of the sprint Paul was pushing for. I think he claimed it was so society would have time to adjust or something.

So it was still "all" the advancements, just more slowly. Which Paul rejected because Smiley isn't to be trusted.
 
Arranging for people scheduled to be purged to be sent somewhere else, off the books.

So that he could experiment on them.

And give the few survivors to Germania's enemies.

So they could launch paramilitary attacks on its civilian population.



So Sivana is... yeah, i really can't wait to see how OLs crossuniversal trip goes like this time compared to his escapades in the crime syndicate universex3

Hey did Batman from earth 12 adopt Talon and the Jokers Daughter, if he didn't then what happened to those two?
 
PDV said:
Honestly, speaks well of him. What were the specifics?
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Remember, there was only one Dr. Sivana who wasn't evil, so-
Mr Zoat said:
Arranging for people scheduled to be purged to be sent somewhere else, off the books.

So that he could experiment on them.

And give the few survivors to Germania's enemies.

So they could launch paramilitary attacks on its civilian population.
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Yeah, that sounds about right.
 
Yeah. I think I remember that. In the entire multiverse, there's only one good Sivana. And that Sivana is also the only handsome one. Because ugly people can go die in a fire, I guess.
 
Darko said:
Hey did Batman from earth 12 adopt Talon and the Jokers Daughter, if he didn't then what happened to those two?
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The Earth 12 Batman? No, he's never met them.
ForeverShogo said:
Yeah. I think I remember that. In the entire multiverse, there's only one good Sivana. And that Sivana is also the only handsome one. Because ugly people can go die in a fire, I guess.
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No. No, he's just slightly less goblin-looking. More 'normal' rather than handsome.
 
What happened to Talon and the Jokers daughter then?
And will we see Sai in this crisis of infinite Pauls and Jades?
What happened to Sai after the dopplegangered episode?
 
Darko said:
What happened to Talon and the Jokers daughter then?
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Sorry, forgot my own story there. He's met Talon, but Talon and Duela joined the Justice Underground.
And will we see Sai in this crisis of infinite Pauls and Jades?
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It's not impossible.
What happened to Sai after the dopplegangered episode?
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Gone into hiding, probably. She did what she needed to in order to earn her pardon. If they couldn't capitalise on it that's their problem.
 
Pinklestia said:
Everyone hates nazis.
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Not everyone hates Nazis. You should see all the people that line up to criticise Glory Girl for throwing E88 members off bridges, shattering their bones, or threatening to have her sister turn them black. Generally when the Nazi in question is attacking a minority.
 
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RichardWhereat said:
Not everyone hates Nazis. You should see all the people that line up to criticise Glory Girl for throwing E88 members off bridges, shattering their bones, or threatening to have her sister turn them black. Generally when the Nazi in question is attacking a minority.
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Nothing says you can't hate Nazis and excessive force.
 
Ganurath said:
Nothing says you can't hate Nazis and excessive force.
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No such thing as excessive force when it comes to Nazis, and propogating the myth that there is, only helps the Nazis, and hinders those who would smash them down.

As I said, lot's of people don't like seeing Nazis get hurt
 
RichardWhereat said:
No such thing as excessive force when it comes to Nazis, and propogating the myth that there is, only helps the Nazis, and hinders those who would smash them down.

As I said, lot's of people don't like seeing Nazis get hurt
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If the force is enough to give the Nazi the legal leverage needed to avoid punishment for the crime that brought the force against them, it's excessive. Unless you're of the mind that anyone should be able to administer any level of force and call it justice, but that's the territory of C-list villains that call themselves vigilante heroes because it's not a killing spree if the victims are criminals.
 
Ganurath said:
If the force is enough to give the Nazi the legal leverage needed to avoid punishment for the crime that brought the force against them, it's excessive. Unless you're of the mind that anyone should be able to administer any level of force and call it justice, but that's the territory of C-list villains that call themselves vigilante heroes because it's not a killing spree if the victims are criminals.
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Yeah, that's almost never the argument used against Vicky. It's always "Hurting people like this is wrong."
Even when the ones she's hurting are, in-story, Nazis who are in the act of attacking minorities.
Even when she has Panacea heal them up afterwards.

Nah, can't let Nazis get hurt.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Yeah, that's almost never the argument used against Vicky. It's always "Hurting people like this is wrong."
Even when the ones she's hurting are, in-story, Nazis who are in the act of attacking minorities.
Even when she has Panacea heal them up afterwards.

Nah, can't let Nazis get hurt.
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Alright, I'm starting to get confused. Are you arguing that Nazis don't deserve sympathy, or are you bashing people who read Victoria-bash fics? Only one of those is even arguably relevant to the thread.
 
RichardWhereat said:
Not everyone hates Nazis.
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Okay I should charify.

Everyone, on DC comics, hates nazis; unless they are nazis themselves.

Even the Joker hates Nazis.

Captain Nazi an enemy of the Marvel Family in DC comics, had to resort to pay by the nose for cybernetics because most doctors and genetists didn't want to touch him.

Heck even the Brotherhood Of Evil didn't like him much, and they literally have General Immortus who took part on one of the earliest genocides, the one the Roman Empire did, as a member.
 
Ganurath said:
Yeah, that takes us back to the earlier mention of C-list edgelord antihero logic.
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At no point is killing nazis 'edgelord territory'. Advocating for their survival is edgelord territory.

What Max was talking about, that's outright above board heroism. There's a reason that Germany demanded that the JLA use lethal force in taking in nazi war criminals. And that's because to not do so, is a fairly evil act.
 
RichardWhereat said:
At no point is killing nazis 'edgelord territory'. Advocating for their survival is edgelord territory.

What Max was talking about, that's outright above board heroism. There's a reason that Germany demanded that the JLA use lethal force in taking in nazi war criminals. And that's because to not do so, is a fairly evil act.
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It's edgelord territory to kill Nazis if the killer doesn't have the legal grounds to do so. OL, Rocket, and the Hitler clone that I forgot the name of were legally in the right because the particular Nazis they killed basically had kill orders, in the tradition of Worm. Morally, too, because those two were war criminals in the process of trying to trigger a Roanoke-tier magical event. Random shitbags on the street who were born well after WWII was concluded need to be convicted of certain crimes in certain jurisdictions before lethal force can be brought to bear. I suppose one could extend the lethal force authorization to any Nazi, but that just shifts the moral position from edgelord to Justice Lord, and creates an ugly precedent that could be extended to groups with less deserving agendas.
 
RichardWhereat said:
At no point is killing nazis 'edgelord territory'. Advocating for their survival is edgelord territory.

What Max was talking about, that's outright above board heroism. There's a reason that Germany demanded that the JLA use lethal force in taking in nazi war criminals. And that's because to not do so, is a fairly evil act.
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I am reminded of a fic that had a heroine be rather controversial. She saved people, yes. Very much a moral person, yes.

She just loved her grandpa. Who just so happened to be a Nazi. Not involved in the camps, no, but he was very much not apologetic about the glory of WWII Germany. To the world, he was just another scumbag Nazi. To the heroine, he was Grandpa. Who held her close, bounced her on his knee, and let her play with his mustache.

The point I'm getting at is, Nazi's are people too. Tremendously flawed people with an ideology with more holes in it than Swiss cheese and Hitler's brain casing combined, but still people. If not to you, then to someone else.

That said, if they're actively working to endanger others, then by all means, use whatever force is required to render them non-threats.
 
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