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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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Mr Zoat said:
The SI is content to leave that to other people.
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So nothing will happen in that regard unless he's involved/onscreen, got it.

I wonder how Paragon will react to this revelation; I'd also like to have seen Danner's reaction when he learned that Paragon can augment anyone with his formula (I assume that he already knows that at this point). Though I'd generally prefer present-day chapters rather than flashbacks.
 
I guess the only unanswered question left is a) where the Brazilians got anti power ring scan-blocking tech or magic for their secret prison, and b) same question for the Children of Dawn tribes in the jungle.

Since when OL met "Munroe", he was incredulous that he'd never found him before, since he'd specifically looked.
 
I wonder if some of the "super-races" we see like the Kryptonians or the Martians are the result of their equivalent of the Danner formula being used on the entire population way back at some point in pre-history.

As I recall, even though the formula itself appears to be alchemical magic, the resulting Danner enhanciles don't show up as magically active but rather as "conventional" superhumans.
 
Steelplaza said:
I wonder if some of the "super-races" we see like the Kryptonians or the Martians are the result of their equivalent of the Danner formula being used on the entire population way back at some point in pre-history./QUOTE]
.
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If I recall correctly that was actually canon once, I am pretty sure that one of the earlier explanations for Supermans powers was thr advanced science of Krypton granting them both Superior technology and Superior bodies(even on Krypton)
 
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jonasquinn said:
Yeah I have to say it seems really convenient that OL somehow never figured this out before yet Squire somehow did with the help of a far less experienced Lantern
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I kind of think this is a case where the SI's extra-universal knowledge tripped him up. He heard a story that sounded like something he remembered from comics, so he assumed it was accurate and didn't investigate very hard.
 
Coda said:
American, so a dot after "Mr".
appeared
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Thank you, corrected.
DrThoth said:
So nothing will happen in that regard unless he's involved/onscreen, got it.
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It's really more that they're Schroedinger's Wizards.
oct9010 said:
I guess the only unanswered question left is a) where the Brazilians got anti power ring scan-blocking tech or magic for their secret prison, and b) same question for the Children of Dawn tribes in the jungle.

Since when OL met "Munroe", he was incredulous that he'd never found him before, since he'd specifically looked.
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He looked for Arnold Munro. Naturally, he didn't find him because he died decades ago. As for the tribe, he was looking at records, not scanning the whole planet.
 
Mr Zoat said:
He looked for Arnold Munro. Naturally, he didn't find him because he died decades ago. As for the tribe, he was looking at records, not scanning the whole planet.
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But, if it was before he met "Munroe", why would he look specifically and only for Munroe rather than for scanning generally for Danner formula enhanciles, or the formula itself? As I recall he was doing most of the investigation after he already had the chemical composition of the Danner formula and a first-hand view of how it affected human tissue.

Basically, I don't see how Luthor could find Hugo in two days. What particular insight did he have whose lack prevented OL from finding the same thing? Did he literally just skip all the intermediate steps, call up the Brazilian government and ask if they had any Americans in top-secret detention whose records they had lost?
 
Steelplaza said:
I kind of think this is a case where the SI's extra-universal knowledge tripped him up. He heard a story that sounded like something he remembered from comics, so he assumed it was accurate and didn't investigate very hard.
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You'd think he would have trusted his Hellblazer knowledge of the corrupt and demonic British government then too, instead of just offloading it onto Batman and Fate (Nabu), who didn't find the roots of the conspiracy, if I recall correctly.
 
oct9010 said:
Basically, I don't see how Luthor could find Hugo in two days. What particular insight did he have whose lack prevented OL from finding the same thing? Did he literally just skip all the intermediate steps, call up the Brazilian government and ask if they had any Americans in top-secret detention whose records they had lost?
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The way it reads, he did exactly that. (Well not Luthor himself, but he had his people make the call.) Keeping in mind he had an approximate date of incarceration and that it was unlikely any other prisoners from that far back would still be alive.
 
oct9010 said:
But, if it was before he met "Munroe", why would he look specifically and only for Munroe rather than for scanning generally for Danner formula enhanciles, or the formula itself? As I recall he was doing most of the investigation after he already had the chemical composition of the Danner formula and a first-hand view of how it affected human tissue.
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Back then he probably couldn't do it.
Basically, I don't see how Luthor could find Hugo in two days. What particular insight did he have whose lack prevented OL from finding the same thing? Did he literally just skip all the intermediate steps, call up the Brazilian government and ask if they had any Americans in top-secret detention whose records they had lost?
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A massive intelligence gathering network and a lot of friends in government.
 
oct9010 said:
But, if it was before he met "Munroe", why would he look specifically and only for Munroe rather than for scanning generally for Danner formula enhanciles, or the formula itself? As I recall he was doing most of the investigation after he already had the chemical composition of the Danner formula and a first-hand view of how it affected human tissue.

Basically, I don't see how Luthor could find Hugo in two days. What particular insight did he have whose lack prevented OL from finding the same thing? Did he literally just skip all the intermediate steps, call up the Brazilian government and ask if they had any Americans in top-secret detention whose records they had lost?
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Luthor had two rather important things, one of which Paul lacks.

Money and the knowledge of how to properly use said money to get what he wants.
 
The conversation on what he could of done differently a couple chapters back is interesting to reread with him being hugo like he's looking for advice from OL and you can kinda see where he thinks differently to how OL saw the situation.
 
Vaermina said:
Luthor had two rather important things, one of which Paul lacks.

Money and the knowledge of how to properly use said money to get what he wants.
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Well, that and an entire lifetime of building contacts.

But yeah, between this and the Bat-family comment you're definitely not hallucinating.
 
Ah, right. I remembered something relevant to the current arc. In Brazil IRL, there's a tribe that uses modern computers and phones with cameras, internet access, and GPS to know exactly where their territory's borders are down to the square inch, and use them to identify and report to the local authorities any and every illegal logging operation that enters their territory. Does this hold true on Earth 16 as well?
 
So basically when OL was actually looking for Danner Enhanciles he wasn't capable of scanning everyone on earth for signs and/or still gave a shit that that was a huge invasion of privacy and after a cursory investigation gave up because he didn't want to piss off the Brazilian government by digging deeper than he was supposed to whereas with all his money and influence Lex could just phone them up and ask

Also I imagine that it was less that Arisia dug up information that Paul couldn't and more that Squires skill at investigation and deciphering meant that she just noticed stuff that he didn't
 
So on the subject of Lex deciding not to leave The Light, I do feel I should point out the reason why Lex didn't flip on them.

Zoat has actually said that Paul's argument was working on Lex. That he was essentially a hair's breadth away from such a turn. What prevented Lex from turning wasn't his ego. It was his paranoia. Lex knew that Paul could manipulate the desires of others, and when Paul was starting to sway him he essentially panicked and assumed that Paul was forcing him to have second thoughts about The Light.

Lex is still in The Light because he thinks he just barely managed to avoid being brainwashed.
 
So Squire is getting benched/disciplined after this, right?\

The best case scenario is that she noticed something funny when Paul decided to go get Danner and investigated. Called Green Newbie to shred through government file protection. But then she didn't inform her team leader of her suspicions until the WERE SURROUNDED BY TRIBES OF SUPER STRONG PEOPLE THAT MAY BE CRAZY-LOYAL TO THEIR 'GOD'! Best case she's just stupid and arrogant.

Worst case is that she's thought this for a while and kept it from everyone. Only now revealing it to be the most dramatic version possible.

I know that everyone with the Bubble Belts (can't remember the name) are safe because danner formula is pure super strength kinetic force but that's still REALLY stupid of Squire.

Or am I reading the situation wrong?

Also, Mr Zoat , How many times does the SI need to be betrayed/lied to before he just says fuck it and looks at people souls through empathetic vision all the time for conformation on character/information?
 
Jungle Gym (part 16)
  • Threadmarks
    • 18th March
    15:23 GMT -3

    Well sugar.

    The old-looking people drop to their knees, followed by Dawn Warrior and the.. people I assume are the older enhanciles. The younger children stop what they're doing and look around in confusion, but the younger adults realise who this man is a moment later and join their elders-

    "No, no, don't-"

    -in kneeling.

    "-do that, please. I don't deserve it." Mr Danner kneels down next to the Elder who went to speak with him. "Cauã, your sons died because of me. I.. watched them-."

    "My sons died for our people. The natives of the Amazon have fought for centuries against those who occupy our lands. Why should I be angry with you for being more successful than anyone before you?"

    Mr Danner can't meet his eyes, tears trickling down his cheeks.

    "No one fought beside you who was not willing to die."

    "They shouldn't have had to! I led the Accala to war because I didn't think anything could stop us! I wanted-. I wanted everything to be over by.. Christmas."

    "You always told us that you were not a god. The fact that you failed to foresee what none of us foresaw will not make me blame you. But see!" He rises to his feet and puts his right hand on Mr Danner's shoulder, pushing him to look at the tribespeople surrounding them. "We are stronger now than ever! There is no one here who is not immune to the diseases which killed their great uncles and aunts!"

    Mr Danner looks around, and there's no excitement or hope in his face. I think.. maybe I should step in now.

    "Elder Cauã, I am Orange Lantern." Cauã turns to look at me, his expression guarded. "I'd like to avoid open conflict between your people and the Brazilian government. Do you have a list of demands I could pass on to them, so that we could try negotiating first?"

    "Lantern?"

    I hold out my left hand and call my personal lantern out of subspace.

    "Yes."

    "Like the Green Lantern?"

    "Same.. sort of idea, yes."

    His eyes narrow. "Why would we negotiate with you?"

    "Because the Brazilian government will probably listen to me, which gives you a chance to resolve things without anyone dying."

    "We are not afraid to die for our people, for our lands."

    "And I can see that. But while you have a lot of power here, it isn't enough to fight the entire world. The Brazilian government will attempt to convince other nations that you are a threat to them as well, and so get their support for fighting you. The best way to prevent them being successful in doing that is to attempt to negotiate before you start fighting, and to be very clear with everyone exactly what you are fighting for."

    Ring, message to Fabiana Holguin. Message: Hugo Danner is alive and has a superhuman army. Interested in interviews?

    Message sent.

    "Hm." He looks over to the other Elders as the tribe gets back to its collective feet. "Man-God?"

    "I don't want any more of our people to die. We should try talking to them first. And if that doesn't work… I'll start the fighting personally."

    Elder Cauã smiles.

    "Thank you, Man-God." The other two Elders nod. "Very well, then. Lantern, come with us. We will show you our map room."

    He walks back to the other Elders, only a small nudge being needed to make Mr Danner join them. For a moment I consider flying after them, but… I don't think that sort of display of power would help. Particularly if all the people of his generation bear as much of a grudge against Alan as he does.

    I go after them and my team forms up around me, the crowd spreading out to let us pass. I shift so that Beryl is next to me, then give her a dubious look.

    "Any special reason you chose to share that little bit of information now?"

    She gives me a dubious look back. "You didn't know?"

    "It sounded a little fishy, but I never investigated it in any detail."

    "Oh."

    "What?"

    She looks a little guilty. "I thought you were covering for him. Since he was working for Luthor."

    "No, I didn't think that his identity was so crucially important that I needed to pry into it. So why did you announce it?"

    "He was being pretty clear that he didn't want there to be a fight. I thought they'd be more likely to listen to Hugo Danner than Arnold Munro."

    I nod. "Quite possibly. And from the colours I was seeing, it might be better for him as well. But if there is any problem arising from the fact that the man who led the last attack is publically leading this one-."

    "I'll be-" She nods. "-taking the lead."

    "Glad we're on the same wavelength."

    We arrive at a collection of wooden buildings, and the Elders enter a long hut. Some tribes build their houses in the trees, but looking around it appears that the Accala prefer building on the ground. That might be tradition, or it might be an adaptation to excitable young enhanciles wanting to skip the whole 'climbing' thing and just jump back home and the damage that results from lacking a basic understanding of physics. No concrete or metal and not a lot of stone. They could mine stone easily enough, but I suppose this isn't the area for it.

    I take a moment to wave a rune stone around, but this part of the world doesn't have much of a reputation for sophisticated magic use and Hugo Danner being here didn't encourage them in that direction. I suppose that bringing in a Native American-friendly shaman or two might help provoke some development of improved arcane techniques…

    I enter the room, which appears to be their planning area. Several maps of varying levels of detail are laid out on a large central table, and there's another smaller table with seats around it set up a short distance away. Hugo's already studying the whole-country map while Elder Cauã looks at me and gestures to it.

    "Here, Orange Lantern, is what we want."

    I approach, and what they want… Appears to be virtually all of the country, save for the most heavily populated coastal cities. A lot of it hasn't been densely forested for over a century. This isn't keeping the jungle as it is, this is full-on reforesting on a scale that no advanced nation has ever performed.

    And it's not just Brazil that's on the chopping block. There isn't going to be all that much left of Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia or Peru, and Guyana, Suriname and French Guiana will cease to exist.

    "That's a hard sell. What are you planning on doing with the people living there?"

    "They can keep living there. But there will be no more of these cattle farms. No more of their industry. We will tear it all down and restore our jungle. If they cannot live with that then they can leave."

    I look around. The other Elders nod, and Dawn Warrior doesn't exactly seem perturbed by the announcement. Hugo on the other hand has his satellite phone out and is.. trying to call up demographic data on the regions they're planning on clearing. Yeah, that's… It might be possible for the areas they're talking about to continue feeding themselves, but there aren't going to be any exports.. or imports. No motor vehicles, because there won't be any petrol coming in. Tribes like the Accala don't use things like that so don't care, but even some of the more civilised tribes…

    I.. suppose a strong opening position is generally considered to be the way to go in negotiations.

    "I will relay this to the Brazilian government and return with their response. Good day."
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • This... this is going to end pretty poorly. No government would take demands like that well, let alone a threat to seven of them. This is going to get messy very quickly. Not to mention the political allies that these countries have along with the political interests other countries have within them.
     
    Don't worry guys, I once convinced a whole sector of thr galaxy full of big spiders, pirates and slavers to reach a peace and trade agreement for thr first time in... Like ever?, You all just need a big orange juice on the negotiating table.

    Orange Lantern negotation 2: orange bogaloo
     
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