With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Jack of Olives]

This looks like a job for Lex Luthor!

On a more serious note: I wonder what that guy offered the Corps/Controllers in order to get that ring.

*Red Alert 3 reference*

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Ah, good memories. Not even EA's usual business-practices could (completely) ruin that game for me.

Now if only I could get the RA2 & Yuri's Revenge to work on my computer.

 

[Darko]

This looks like a job for Lex Luthor!

...I wonder what that guy offered the Corps/Controllers in order to get that ring.



Ah, good memories. Not even EA's usual business-practices could (completely) ruin that game for me.

Now if only I could get the RA2 & Yuri's Revenge to work on my computer.

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The ability to use a orange ring without losing his sanity.

Granted he probably doesn't have much to lose in that area.

 

[Grimnar]

What part of "can crash your economy with ease" is not a threat?

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The part where they now know that the Corp doesn't in fact have the ability to perform gunboat diplomacy. The guys nominal boss just just stated he's not a military threat, and doesn't have the ability to threaten them.

So they can force the Corp to table and milk the trade for every penny they can get. And the Corp doesn't want to, the UN can ask their kindly friends to justice league to intervene in the interplantery smuggling going on.

 

[Bramble Thorn]

So he's a fart

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No. He is a fart that can sparkle. There is a difference.

Like the difference between Bram Stoker's Dracula and Stephanie Meyer's Twinkle Vampires.

 

[Sordid Snake]

With a little luck G'nort will get a orange lantern ring

 

[Lupercal]

So is Lord-Lantern Comic King also trying to start trade with Mars? I can't see why not.

 

[Darko]

So is Lord-Lantern Comic King also trying to start trade with Mars? I can't see why not.

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They may not have as many recourses as Earth does, or interesting things like cultural products, due to the sheer diversity Earth has in terms of culture.

Zoat is this episode going to focus on the Cluster Corp and what its doing on Earth?

 

[CTrees]

The part where they now know that the Corp doesn't in fact have the ability to perform gunboat diplomacy. The guys nominal boss just just stated he's not a military threat, and doesn't have the ability to threaten them.

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OL also said MK could just drop a big rock from space if he wanted to wipe out life on Earth, and that he has the ability (via ring) and sufficient raw materials to fabricate whatever interstellar civilization-level weaponry he feels like. MK absolutely has the ability to perform gunboat diplomacy; it's just not his preference.

What happens when MK starts selling "asteroid insurance" to countries?

 

[Lupercal]

They may not have as many recourses as Earth does, or interesting things like cultural products, due to the sheer diversity Earth has in terms of culture.

Zoat is this episode going to focus on the Cluster Corp and what its doing on Earth?

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Except Mars has a bigger space industry the earth does and an army of J'onn Jonnz. While Paul explicitly said that earth doesn't have much, if anything, to sell in terms of culture.

 

[Grimnar]

What happens when MK starts selling "asteroid insurance" to countries?

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Then OL goes up to kick his ass for messing with His Stuff. Which as an Orange Lantern, this guy should know not to mess with? Or the half dozen lanterns take umbrage at the implied threats and kick his teeth in?

 

[Darko]

Except Mars has a bigger space industry the earth does and an army of J'onn Jonnz. While Paul explicitly said that earth doesn't have much, if anything, to sell in terms of culture.

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Their space industry may not be all that developed as they are a fairly isolationist race and their tech may not be impressive enough to become a standout in the galactic market.

Earth on the other hand is known for producing extremely advanced pieces of tech seemingly at random and said tech is at least decades more advanced than it should be, so maybe Khan wants to corner the market so that he can get access to these technologies and sell them on the galactic market.

Earth also has thousands of different types of magical traditions, while Mars only has he Sorcerer Priests, and Earth may be one of the most mystically powerful places in the universe.

 

[Chaoswind]

Except Mars has a bigger space industry the earth does and an army of J'onn Jonnz. While Paul explicitly said that earth doesn't have much, if anything, to sell in terms of culture.

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The legal license to sale captain Cold cold rays is probably more than enough to make Manga King Corp incredibly rich. Same as purple life/death rays.

In comparison to that, telepathic enhancers are pedestrian and way too common. The shape-shifting intelligent clothing may have market appeal.

 

[Darko]

The legal license to sale captain Cold cold rays is probably more than enough to make Manga King Corp incredibly rich. Same as purple life/death rays.

In comparison to that, telepathic enhancers are pedestrian and way too common. The shape-shifting intelligent clothing may have market appeal.

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Don't forget the weather control drones develop by Kord Industries, as well as the Ice Fortresses which can help worlds that suffer from melting ice caps recover and earn ClusterCorp a pretty penny

 

[Rafin]

Genuine question. What does Atlantis lose if Venturia secedes?

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They lose face and some pride.

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But only internally.

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The throne of Atlantis loses legitimacy and also loses diplomatic standing with Aurania and any city-state closely aligned with Aurania. Because Ptra wasn't randomly kidnapped. Iirc she essentially went with her father after the court (the then Queen of Atlantis) granted him custody.

Atlantis is a federation of (mostly) monarchies, in which the king of Poseidonis holds primacy. In monarchies things like face and pride, in other words legitimacy, matter a whole damn lot. There's a reason that there's so much pomp and ceremony in kingdoms. If the king of Atlantis allows a city to secede over a referendum, what signal does that send to the other cities? What signal does it send to the population Poseidonis itself, in a time where contact with surface democracies becomes more and more common. What signal does it send to those Atlantean monarchies that are even more traditional and autocratic than Poseidonis?

Though less than if Venturia went to a surface world country for support.

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What country of note would support Poseidonis over Atlantis without Paul's meddling? Would you expect any on the security council to do so?

Paul's reasoning made perfect sense to me. Where do you think he went wrong?

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It's not his philosophical reasoning. It's the complete lack of diplomacy. All that weird stuff diplomats say and countries care about doesn't just exist because all politicians are morons or something, you know? As long as the world isn't ruled by a single direct democracy or purely by might makes right, stuff like precedence, decorum, and appearance of legitimacy matter a whole damn lot.

It's Vaermina. In Vae-land, anything Paul (or Grayven) does is axiomatically incorrect, impolite, and exhibits moral turpitude. In the parallel version of the story that he reads, Paul routinely kicks puppies, steals candy from babies, and ties damsels to train tracks.

Politely, it's best to ignore Vae. Impolitely, Vae is a fucking idiot and the only thing that you'll get out of talking to him is a headache.

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I would usually completely agree with you on Vae, but I thin this time he's actually (mostly) right. Paul is being an idiot here that is acting willfully ignorant of international and intranational diplomacy, because I guess he considers it beneath him. He speaks to King Orin (who has to juggle all kinds of interests for a living) as if he's dumb. And King Orin still holds back and acts diplomatically, probably out of a mix of disbelief and the threat of space fleet.

You really think the UN is going to drop the potential military threat the ship presents just because of the word of one guy, no matter how well informed he is. No they would want to be careful.

Also the League is probably the only group that is used to dealing with aliens in any manner, unless you want to count the Light, so their expertise could be needed.

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You're making the mistake of treating the Comic's UN as a reasonable body that get's things done.

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Both of you should be aware that this is an unprecedented event. I don't think that there are any clear international rules on what to do when an advanced alien space fleet wants to both trade and potentially lend military aid to a separatist part of a single country.
This means that multiple organizations have a vested interest in making themselves relevant here, because it can shape how future space trade looks for decades to come.
Every permanent member nation of the UNSC would love to keep the power of allowing it to just them. Every other nation would either open up control to the wider UN (if they hold sway there) or have it be up to each nation separately (if they don't).
Also keep in mind that the UN 16 is at least slightly more relevant than the real life UN, because they have nominal control and partial influence over a highly visible organization that is also unique in their space combat capabilities. That, coupled with the fact that this is the first major politically relevant interaction with an extraterrestrial organization means that the UN as an organization is in a prime position to finally accrue actual power.

 

[liger0]

Don't forget the weather control drones develop by Kord Industries, as well as the Ice Fortresses which can help worlds that suffer from melting ice caps recover and earn ClusterCorp a pretty penny

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Didn't the angels tear the shit out of the ice fortress he was using? I don't know if he ever repaired/recreated it or not? Or was it just a total write-off?

 

[Huttj509]

"So, where can we post this 'No Soliciting' sign in space?"

 

[Darko]

Didn't the angels tear the shit out of the ice fortress he was using? I don't know if he ever repaired/recreated it or not? Or was it just a total write-off?

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They may have destroyed it, but Paul probably still has the blueprints to make a new one.

He could have made a new one for all we know, but it just hasn't been mentioned, and maybe he didn't make a new one as he already refroze the ice caps so the fortress no longer served a purpose.


While I agree Paul can be surprisingly dense when it comes to certain diplomatic matters, I don't think he was treating Orin as an idiot here, but that he was showing just how little he cared for something he considered an open and shut case.

I still think the best solution for this whole secession thing is to let Cyprian be king, but have Venturia stay as a member of Atlantis.


This incident with the ClusterCorp may sully the reputation of the OLC a bit on Earth, but it can also get the various governments on Earth interested in forging business ties with off worlders , so in order to do that they may request the Green Lanterns or OL give them information on the various races that exist in the galaxy so they could know who to deal with.

OL isn't restricted from sharing his database like a GL is, and they are only restricted in sharing technical data, but can share other data such as whose who in the galactic stage, as shown that the Green Lanterns gave Orin a list of various alien races who he then shared with his vassals.

This can help them avoid going into business with the Reach.

Although Zoat said the Reach will come to Earth while he is in space, so unless he changed his mind my thought about them inquiring for info on alien races won't happen.

 

[Chaoswind]

The throne of Atlantis loses legitimacy and also loses diplomatic standing with Aurania and any city-state closely aligned with Aurania. Because Ptra wasn't randomly kidnapped. Iirc she essentially went with her father after the court (the then Queen of Atlantis) granted him custody.

Atlantis is a federation of (mostly) monarchies, in which the king of Poseidonis holds primacy. In monarchies things like face and pride, in other words legitimacy, matter a whole damn lot. There's a reason that there's so much pomp and ceremony in kingdoms. If the king of Atlantis allows a city to secede over a referendum, what signal does that send to the other cities? What signal does it send to the population Poseidonis itself, in a time where contact with surface democracies becomes more and more common. What signal does it send to those Atlantean monarchies that are even more traditional and autocratic than Poseidonis?

What country of note would support Poseidonis over Atlantis without Paul's meddling? Would you expect any on the security council to do so?


It's not his philosophical reasoning. It's the complete lack of diplomacy. All that weird stuff diplomats say and countries care about doesn't just exist because all politicians are morons or something, you know? As long as the world isn't ruled by a single direct democracy or purely by might makes right, stuff like precedence, decorum, and appearance of legitimacy matter a whole damn lot.

I would usually completely agree with you on Vae, but I thin this time he's actually (mostly) right. Paul is being an idiot here that is acting willfully ignorant of international and intranational diplomacy, because I guess he considers it beneath him. He speaks to King Orin (who has to juggle all kinds of interests for a living) as if he's dumb. And King Orin still holds back and acts diplomatically, probably out of a mix of disbelief and the threat of space fleet.


Both of you should be aware that this is an unprecedented event. I don't think that there are any clear international rules on what to do when an advanced alien space fleet wants to both trade and potentially lend military aid to a separatist part of a single country.
This means that multiple organizations have a vested interest in making themselves relevant here, because it can shape how future space trade looks for decades to come.
Every permanent member nation of the UNSC would love to keep the power of allowing it to just them. Every other nation would either open up control to the wider UN (if they hold sway there) or have it be up to each nation separately (if they don't).
Also keep in mind that the UN 16 is at least slightly more relevant than the real life UN, because they have nominal control and partial influence over a highly visible organization that is also unique in their space combat capabilities. That, coupled with the fact that this is the first major politically relevant interaction with an extraterrestrial organization means that the UN as an organization is in a prime position to finally accrue actual power.

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Ptra didn't go with her father, the whole crisis started with the assassination of her father when she was a toddler, she was taken from Queen Clea as a direct result of the meddling of at the time monarch of Atlantis in what at best was a move driven by spite for Venturia using WWII to push their claims of the Atlantic Islands within their territory (that placed then against the UK and by default the allies).


Ptra was turned into a figure head monarch as the council of Aurania was to rule in her stead (these people being allies of Atlantis), the goal being to have Venturia also be ruled by a council aligned to Atlantis.

It's not that Atlantis failed to handle its situation with Venturia diplomatically, this is the result of the policy they purposely pursued, the current situation is no accident in as much as Venturia was meant to fall to Atlantis and Paul's intervention has derailed decades of planning (same for Grayven).

 

[Darko]

Ptra didn't go with her father, the whole crisis started with the assassination of her father when she was a toddler, she was taken from Queen Clea as a direct result of the meddling of at the time monarch of Atlantis in what at best was a move driven by spite for Venturia using WWII to push their claims of the Atlantic Islands within their territory (that placed then against the UK and by default the allies).


Ptra was turned into a figure head monarch as the council of Aurania was to rule in her stead (these people being allies of Atlantis), the goal being to have Venturia also be ruled by a council aligned to Atlantis.

It's not that Atlantis failed to handle its situation with Venturia diplomatically, this is the result of the policy they purposely pursued, the current situation is no accident in as much as Venturia was meant to fall to Atlantis and Paul's intervention has derailed decades of planning (same for Grayven).

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Basically.

Also Venturia doesn't really lose anything if Ptra doesn't become queen, as renegade said that while she may have had the education to become queen in her entire time she has been queen, decades to be exact, she hasn't really ruled or governed her people in Aurania, with a council doing it in her place, while she served mostly as a ceremonial role even if she could take some actual power.

The Venturians may not be happy having a total stranger who has never governed anything in their life suddenly start telling them orders.

 

[MattT]

Second things second, Zeta beam transportation still moves through space, the magic gates are controlled by Atlantis, and nobody would sacrifice their existing relationship with Atlantis for a relationship with a small backwater that's decades away from catching up to their already existent trading partner.

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Good thing they have yet more transportation options then. Unless Dox didn't refine and share the ring fuelled Boom Tube he was working on, on his way to his very first day of training. Subspace pocket full of supplies. Done.

My plaudits to the Atlantean diplomatic and fabrication departments though. Establishing exclusive magic trading links to every single nation and corporation on Earth, on terms everyone is happy with, and being able to match the demand even just for basic warding? Keeping up with intelligence agencies scrapping for any and all magical knowledge and tutoring, no matter how outdated or first principles, desperate to head off the next Roanoke?

Thanks for the formatting reminder, bit out of practice actually posting after years of lurking!

 

[Darko]

Can't wait to have Paul interact with Manga Khan, it promises to be hilarious.

Also I can't help but want it to go something like this:

I feel like Manga Khan is the kind of guy who might make the kind of speech like the one Ned Beatty gave on Network, but a version that encompasses capitalism on a galactic scale.

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And maybe a bit of Mr World thrown in.

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By this I mean either Paul is actually impressed by Manga like the guy in the Network, or he is actually kinda creeped out by his Mr World esque monologue on what people want.

Pretty sure that if it's the second one then Paul may get a little bit more worried then he is right now and we the audience, who may have gotten a bit tired of Paul's somewhat careless actions, get to enjoy watching him try to deal with someone who is much more dangerous then he appears.

 

[Vaermina]

The part where they now know that the Corp doesn't in fact have the ability to perform gunboat diplomacy. The guys nominal boss just just stated he's not a military threat, and doesn't have the ability to threaten them.

So they can force the Corp to table and milk the trade for every penny they can get. And the Corp doesn't want to, the UN can ask their kindly friends to justice league to intervene in the interplantery smuggling going on.

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Pretty much.

Paul even did them the favor of informing them of just what sorts of things he would be interested in accepting in trade.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Except Mars has a bigger space industry the earth does and an army of J'onn Jonnz.

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Ah... Kind of. Most martian bioships aren't designed for space travel, though most of them are technically capable of it.

The throne of Atlantis loses legitimacy and also loses diplomatic standing with Aurania and any city-state closely aligned with Aurania. Because Ptra wasn't randomly kidnapped. Iirc she essentially went with her father after the court (the then Queen of Atlantis) granted him custody.

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No, her father was dead at that point. The High Queen let the Auranian aristocrats who kidnapped her keep her.

What country of note would support Poseidonis over Atlantis without Paul's meddling? Would you expect any on the security council to do so?

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The United States of America. The US military would be sorely tempted by the magical knowledge. There would be a very careful weighing up of the pros and cons of having a smaller but more indebted partner. Russia would probably go for it as well, though the distance involved would probably make it impractical.

Didn't the angels tear the shit out of the ice fortress he was using? I don't know if he ever repaired/recreated it or not? Or was it just a total write-off?

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Oh, yes, that was totally destroyed. I mean, he could technically recover the parts but given the effort involved it would be easier to make a new one.

"So, where can we post this 'No Soliciting' sign in space?"

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I believe that the answer would be 'anywhere you can enforce it'.

 

[Tzeentch]

Wonder what kind of commercials Manga Khan will be constantly beaming throughout Earth's media...

Maybe something like:



Or perhaps something that would normally be found in Rick and Morty's Interdimensional Cable?

 

[Darko]

Wonder what kind of commercials Manga Khan will be constantly beaming throughout Earth's media...

Maybe something like:



Or perhaps something that would normally be found in Rick and Morty's Interdimensional Cable?

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Wonderful just what the rest of the galaxy needs, adopting Black Friday.

That won't end in disaster.

Seriously there may be a genuine risk that Khan will adopt this practice.

 

[Jack of Olives]

The ability to use a orange ring without losing his sanity.

Granted he probably doesn't have much to lose in that area.

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Like that old joke: "You traded your common-sense for *insert somewhat trivial wish here*? Talk about a bargain!"

 

[Tzeentch]

Mister Naif al-Sheikh

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Oh HIM. Well, in spite of his VERY understandable prejudice against anything metahuman related, at least he's a thorough professional through and through... right?

 

[DrThoth]

This has probably already been answered, but how much of the whole Venturia-Aurania civil conflict backstory comes from some form of comics continuity, and how much is original invention by Mr Zoat? The only reference I've seen to Queen Clea (admittedly without actually searching her until just now) is a link to an all-female lineup of Wonder Woman's that was posted in-story when Renegade first proposed a new coalition to her.

 

[Mr Zoat]

This has probably already been answered, but how much of the whole Venturia-Aurania civil conflict backstory comes from some form of comics continuity, and how much is original invention by Mr Zoat? The only reference I've seen to Queen Clea (admittedly without actually searching her until just now) is a link to an all-female lineup of Wonder Woman's that was posted in-story when Renegade first proposed a new coalition to her.

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Mostly invented by me.

 

[Ct613hulu]

The part where they now know that the Corp doesn't in fact have the ability to perform gunboat diplomacy. The guys nominal boss just just stated he's not a military threat, and doesn't have the ability to threaten them.

So they can force the Corp to table and milk the trade for every penny they can get. And the Corp doesn't want to, the UN can ask their kindly friends to justice league to intervene in the interplantery smuggling going on.

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Giving the United Nations the ability to easily prevent a Sovereign Nation from trading with a Foreign Power would represent a tremendous expansion of their power. This would especially be the case if the countries restricted were powerful nations instead of relatively weak nations that are obviously being punished for their violations of the international order.

Despite what some may think, the United Nations is not a world government. It can ultimately only make major changes to the international order when it has the support of the member nations and it is extremely unlikely that their would be sufficient support for such a vast expansion of the United Nations power at the expense of traditional Sovereignty.


A specific obstacle also arises from the question of how would the United Nations manage to prevent the Members of the Security Council from simply vetoing any legislation that would stop them from taking advantage of trade opportunities with ClusturCorp.

I don't think that there is really any practical way for the United Nations to prevent ClusterCorp from entering into an economic relationship with the nations of Earth. They might try to regulate it but even that would be tremendously difficult.