With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Breadnaught]

Can I be reminded of why Paul is pissed at Lex?

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A while ago he made Lex an offer and tried to seduce him to the Light Side..

"I agree with your stated goals. I want humanity to develop the schitzotech they've had access to for decades, progress and go to the stars. I don't want the Earth to treat superheroes as a crutch that stops people walking on their own. And I can do it without being a supervillain. Without being aparty to World Scale Child Murder! Join me, give us the other member of the Light and we can do this the right way!"

"Nah, I'm fine with our current methods of achieving our goals. Thanks anyway."

 

[Idkusername]

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That's originally from a movie called DungeonMaster, which was then quoted and made famous by Mythbusters, and it has now somehow ended up on a BioShock image.*

*Idkusername has not consumed any of the listed media and is not responsible for any inaccuracies

 

[Bolo]

Wait I'm confused. Paul tells Lex he's upset at him for Not going for his deal (doing shady things) doesn't really get into cause reasons... Then tells him now is the best time make his best offer because to Paul.....?

 

[DrThoth]

Wait I'm confused. Paul tells Lex he's upset at him for Not going for his deal (doing shady things) doesn't really get into cause reasons... Then tells him now is the best time make his best offer because to Paul.....?

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Because the mundane governments' lack of adequate preparedness (and coordination) for perfectly reasonable possibilities like contact with extraterrestrial polities seems to be due to the 'gormless passivity' (I think that's a quote from somewhere in this fic) encouraged by having superheroes around to deal with things like this.
Competent and effective governments would clash too much with the general rationale behind idealistic and independent superheroism, so we basically never see any in most mainstream comics-based media.

 

[Queshire]

She-Ra finished in 1986.

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I can yell too!

But hey, I'd love to hear it if you have a reason for going that route that's not regurgitating the initial controversy that they didn't look fuckable enough or isn't predicated on the tonal nature of the series which I'd equate to, hm, say the Teen Titans cartoon?

 

[IBulit]

What arcs deal with alternate versions of Paul, like the Boys Paul and Sybarite Paul? Read about them on TvTropes but can't find them.

 

[Queshire]

What arcs deal with alternate versions of Paul, like the Boys Paul and Sybarite Paul? Read about them on TvTropes but can't find them.

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It was mostly just isolated updates spread among other episodes.

 

[WereDragon]

"It's really more that it doesn't recognise employee rights. But they tell me that if I work really hard then in a century or two I might graduate to loading crane."
-
There's an explosion of orange light as Manga Khan appears before us in an interesting application of ring-based teleportation. The resulting light flare slides over my environmental shield while Mister Luthor, Ms Graves, the robots and the LexCorp jet are sent flying!
-
"Why were you pretending to be L-Ron?"

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At this point I feel the Illustres has all the justification needed to decide that this excuse for a sapient being should not have a Power Ring, orange or otherwise.

 

[Darko]

Wait I'm confused. Paul tells Lex he's upset at him for Not going for his deal (doing shady things) doesn't really get into cause reasons... Then tells him now is the best time make his best offer because to Paul.....?

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He's tired governments and society not doing the competent thing so he is going with the option of helping Luthor if it at least gets the Earth to advance a bit.

I can yell too!

But hey, I'd love to hear it if you have a reason for going that route that's not regurgitating the initial controversy that they didn't look fuckable enough or isn't predicated on the tonal nature of the series which I'd equate to, hm, say the Teen Titans cartoon?

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Pretty sure Zoat once said that he doesn't like the art style so that's why he doesn't watch the show.

Despite being a clearly intelligent man Zoat can sometimes be incredibly petty, especially when it concerns some new piece of media or entertainment like comics, games and TV shows, considering them to be inferior to their previous version, even when he doesn't know all that much about them and doesn't want to have anything to do with them despite the fact they are quite good in some cases, even if they are bad in other cases, kinda like the previous versions.

 

[ForeverShogo]

As a reminder . . . Zoat has previously said that Paul almost got through to Lex. That the only reason Paul failed to convince Lex to abandon The Light is because of Lex's own paranoia.

Lex started to worry that his desire to turn over a new leaf wasn't his own, but rather one being forced onto him by Paul's ring.

Would be interesting to see Paul's reaction if he learned their relationship soured because Lex thought he had put a mind whammy on him.

Maybe he'll give him another chance if he remembers the only reason Jade didn't suffer a worse fate is because Lex offered up his own legal team to defend her when Paul was talking to him about rehabilitating her so very long ago.

Or maybe I'm just being weird because I thought the interactions between Paul and Lex were some of the best parts about the early era of this fanfic.

 

[Darko]

As a reminder . . . Zoat has previously said that Paul almost got through to Lex. That the only reason Paul failed to convince Lex to abandon The Light is because of Lex's own paranoia.

Lex started to worry that his desire to turn over a new leaf wasn't his own, but rather one being forced onto him by Paul's ring.

Would be interesting to see Paul's reaction if he learned their relationship soured because Lex thought he had put a mind whammy on him.

Maybe he'll give him another chance if he remembers the only reason Jade didn't suffer a worse fate is because Lex offered up his own legal team to defend her when Paul was talking to him about rehabilitating her so very long ago.

Or maybe I'm just being weird because I thought the interactions between Paul and Lex were some of the best parts about the early era of this fanfic.

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That paranoia may not be all that unjustifiable.

Remember that Paul may have accidently influenced Heras decision to divorce Zeus with his ring.

Even if he's not actively influencing them like he did with Mammon, he may still be nudging them in certain ways subconsciously.

Renegade Lex may not be so paranoid about renegade because he consideres him to be a part of his team, while paragon Paul has shown a greater willingness to work with the League, unlike renegade who commited actions that went against the League.

It is also possible that renegade also got his hooks into Lex with his god powers like he did with Blackfire.

The renegade may not have turned her into a completely reasonable individual, as he told Kara 50 that she was interested in brute force conquest and someone that would support all her decisions no matter what, but she probably won't become childishly petty and stupid evil like her pre n52 self.

Luthor may similarly become more reasonable, just with a bit of paranoia left over, but he probably won't be adopting a nihilistic philosophy and work for a goddess that thinks an army of supervillains is the way to protect her universe.

I'm a big fan of a number of post flashpoint changes, additions and story lines, the Year of the Villain is not of them.

 

[SirKaid]

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

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I love every moment of this, both the scene and the character.

 

[Rebu]

Then Manga Khan stomps right up to the robot so that it's forced to bend back slightly.

"Why were you pretending to be L-Ron?"

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Oh, crap. He's a Wodehouse character.

 

[Coda]

Is that a fellow law student I see?

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Nope, software engineer.

I'm pretty sure it's not spelt that way... But it might be an OL-ism...

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It's a plausible spelling. It's not correct according to the dictionary but there are other words that do pluralize that way, and English has a way of normalizing things like that over time.

I, for one, wouldn't have submitted a correction for it.

 

[Xmaster3000]

A while ago he made Lex an offer and tried to seduce him to the Light Side..

"I agree with your stated goals. I want humanity to develop the schitzotech they've had access to for decades, progress and go to the stars. I don't want the Earth to treat superheroes as a crutch that stops people walking on their own. And I can do it without being a supervillain. Without being a party to World Scale Child Murder! Join me, give us the other member of the Light and we can do this the right way!"

"Nah, I'm fine with our current methods of achieving our goals. Thanks anyway."

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Well it's like this: Lex has grabbed the tiger by the tail and, to quote Baloo the bear, "There's teeth in the other end!".
Edit: Found a clip!

 

[Xmaster3000]

"L-Ron! Take a memo!"

…

I look around, but the little gold robot doesn't.. appear to have accompanied him.

"Product testing comes before wide-scale implementation!"

"Um."

"L-Ron?"

The robots nervously rotate their heads to make sure that their owner's chief minion hasn't snuck in somehow. Receiving no response, Manga Khan stomps up to the closest.

"L-Ron? Didn't you used to be gold?"

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"And shorter. I'm almost certain that I remember you being shorter."

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"And your voice was a different pitch."

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"And you had a gravity-repulsor rather than legs."

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"And a unified sensor array rather than those little faux-eyes."

"I'm not L-Ron, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"And three fingers-."

Due to the love of a merciful god, the communicator on Manga Khan's armour lights up, a hologram of L-Ron appearing next to him.

"He's not me, Lord-Lantern Manga Khan."

"L-Ron! You're in two places at once! I didn't know you could do that!"

"You teleported without me, m'lord. I'll be down in a few minutes by shuttle. Please try to keep the monologuing to a minimum until I arrive."

"Very well."

The hologram shuts down.

Then Manga Khan stomps right up to the robot so that it's forced to bend back slightly.

"Why were you pretending to be L-Ron?"

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*uncontrollable laughter* XD

 

[Dur'id the Druid]

Random thought, did Paul ever confirm the Khan's credentials? I mean actually call Dox and see if he actually sent him? I mean maybe Khan summoned or 'bought' an orange ring, and isn't actually part of the official Lantern Corp.

 

[Breadnaught]

At this point I feel the Illustres has all the justification needed to decide that this excuse for a sapient being should not have a Power Ring, orange or otherwise.

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He probably could justify it, but Comic King having a Ring isn't the issue here.

Earth has known about aliens - has been visited by aliens - for centuries. And in Ye Olden Days, when people didn't know any better and the terms god/alien/fae were basically interchangeable as far as most people could tell, they get a pass for not figuring out a protocol for responding to this stuff.

But that's no longer true in the modern age, where the existing governments of the world know perfectly well aliens, and whole interstellar nations, exist and could visit at any time. But so far it's only been loan visitors, or invasions. And the answer for both has been "let the superpowered champions deal with it."

But now it's not just some lone guy in an escape pod, or a hostile invasion. It's just some shitlord travelling salesman from an alien megacorp.

It's not something you need champions to deal with. It's something the governments of the world need to talk to, establish trade deals with. Actually international diplomacy stuff. And they should have been prepared for that, because it was bloody obvious it would happen eventually.

But apparently they're not. They got so used to the "let the superpowered champions deal with it" response, they failed in their duty and don't know how to react to this highly predictable situation.

And frankly, Comic King is soft balling them hilariously in this situation. He's not an expansionist empire here to inform Earth they now control this region of space. He's just the space version of a used car salesman.

In short, DC Earth stuck their heads in the sand and failed to maintain a foreign policy worse than Sakoku era Japan. And now a less-dignified Commodore Matthew Perry just showed up.

 

[Handlewithcare]

Competent and effective governments would clash too much with the general rationale behind idealistic and independent superheroism, so we basically never see any in most mainstream comics-based media.

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In the MCU they tried with the accords and the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight wahtsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

So it seems perfectly reasonable to assume people would actually want it like that.

 

[Tzeentch]

Lex doesn't exactly think all that highly of non humans in the first place, but even his low standards may be blown out the water with Manga.

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Manga Khan might still be a "Bunny-Ears Lawyer" though, some who's VERY good at their job despite their eccentricities.

You dont become a highly ranked intergalactic broker with connections throughout several galaxies by just collecting bottle caps...

 

[Kalem_Lee]

In the MCU they tried with the accords and the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight wahtsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

So it seems perfectly reasonable to assume people would actually want it like that.

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Weren't those accords made with Ross's help and not much talking to the actual Avengers to iron out the problems and ideas for it.

 

[Idkusername]

In the MCU they tried with the accords and the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight wahtsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

So it seems perfectly reasonable to assume people would actually want it like that.

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Are you sure? My experience has been that a lot more people were on Team Iron Man than on the Captain's.

Edit:

Weren't those accords made with Ross's help and not much talking to the actual Avengers to iron out the problems and ideas for it.

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Look, the execution for Civil War was pretty shit. Like really pretty shit. Literally. In the correct sense of the word. It was pretty, and it was shit.

Anyway, what I mean is, plot contrivance was the reason most of the things happened in the movie. Apparently the Captain who should know the value of oversight (having fought in a war as both a soldier and a commanding officer) suddenly holds the idiot ball.

 

[Galacticplumber]

Are you sure? My experience has been that a lot more people were on Team Iron Man than on the Captain's.

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Even if incorrect, the push here hasn't been about regulating supers, but about having a function space foreign policy. Big difference.

 

[Idkusername]

Even if incorrect, the push here hasn't been about regulating supers, but about having a function space foreign policy. Big difference.

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Uh... yeah. I never said othewise.

 

[Mr Zoat]

In the MCU they tried with the accords and the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight whatsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

So it seems perfectly reasonable to assume people would actually want it like that.

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In the MCU, the Accords were presented by General Ross. The man who pursued Dr Banner for years, repeatedly set him off when he just wanted to be left alone to cure himself and caused completely unnecessary property damage and the death of both bystanders and US military personnel. He is not someone anyone with any sense would want to regulate superheroes.

And neither are the people who had oversight of SHIELD and 1) tried to nuke New York and 2) signed off on Hydra's flying railgun plan.

The Accords were brought forwards as a policy because a criminal blew himself up after Scarlet Witch moved him away from a crowd and inadvertently towards a smaller number of politicians. Said criminal was attempting to acquire a biological weapon of horrifying potential power and was stopped by the Avengers.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Scarlet Witch in prison for her work with Hydra and Ultron, but 'failed to let unimportant people die' isn't a good reason for doing anything.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Tony Stark in prison for ACTIVATING ULTRON, but he did that out of his armour and wouldn't have been stopped by an anti-superhero law. And he at least partially did it because Scarlet Witch messed with his mind. I like the way he was played in Winter Soldier, where he nearly fully realised that it was his fault and was trying to fix things.

 

[PDV]

Renegade Lex may not be so paranoid about renegade because he consideres him to be a part of his team, while paragon Paul has shown a greater willingness to work with the League, unlike renegade who commited actions that went against the League.

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Renegade Lex is just as paranoid; moreso, probably. He internally refers to Grayven as "the second alien".

the fans were totally against that, wanting no oversight wahtsoever over superheroes.

Captain Murica immediately went MUH FREEDOMS and blew up an airport and fans loved it.

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Given the events of Winter Soldier, Cap was obviously correct. Do not give intrusive oversight powers including detailed secret identity info to an organization which is easily subverted by supervillains. And given that SHIELD was controlled by supervillains from the start, that should include literally every government organization.

In the comics version, almost everyone was on Team Cap, even including Iron Man. Tony Stark thought the imposition of oversight was unavoidable and championed it in a (ultimately successful) attempt to be put in charge and therefore able to shield his friends from the negative effects. He has explicitly stated this 'onscreen'.

 

[rkyeun]

Can we just get a quick scene explaining how Dox came to the decision to give this guy a ring? I just can't wrap my head around this.

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boolean isViableOrangeLanternCandidate()
{
...
Item 47763: Check to see if individual will be excessively wasteful and frivolous with the orange light. -- No, orange light will be used sparingly if at all. Subject prefers to use robots and standard technology even after possessing orange ring.
...
Item 56192: Consider if exposure to orange light corrupts the personality of the user and renders them more unstable. -- No, subject's personality is unchanged, he was always like this. Immunity to mind alteration?
...
Item 82987: Estimate the divergence from other examples of orange lanterns and anticipate worthiness of new data. -- This should be enlightening. Subject is almost as in tune with his desires as Paul. And slightly more restrained.
...
return(true)
}

 

[Kalem_Lee]

In the MCU, the Accords were presented by General Ross. The man who pursued Dr Banner for years, repeatedly set him off when he just wanted to be left alone to cure himself and caused completely unnecessary property damage and the death of both bystanders and US military personnel. He is not someone anyone with any sense would want to regulate superheroes.

And neither are the people who had oversight of SHIELD and 1) tried to nuke New York and 2) signed off on Hydra's flying railgun plan.

The Accords were brought forwards as a policy because a criminal blew himself up after Scarlet Witch moved him away from a crowd and inadvertently towards a smaller number of politicians. Said criminal was attempting to acquire a biological weapon of horrifying potential power and was stopped by the Avengers.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Scarlet Witch in prison for her work with Hydra and Ultron, but 'failed to let unimportant people die' isn't a good reason for doing anything.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Tony Stark in prison for ACTIVATING ULTRON, but he did that out of his armour and wouldn't have been stopped by an anti-superhero law. And he at least partially did it because Scarlet Witch messed with his mind. I like the way he was played in Winter Soldier, where he nearly fully realised that it was his fault and was trying to fix things.

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Thank you. This needs to be remembered every time.

 

[Darko]

In the MCU, the Accords were presented by General Ross. The man who pursued Dr Banner for years, repeatedly set him off when he just wanted to be left alone to cure himself and caused completely unnecessary property damage and the death of both bystanders and US military personnel. He is not someone anyone with any sense would want to regulate superheroes.

And neither are the people who had oversight of SHIELD and 1) tried to nuke New York and 2) signed off on Hydra's flying railgun plan.

The Accords were brought forwards as a policy because a criminal blew himself up after Scarlet Witch moved him away from a crowd and inadvertently towards a smaller number of politicians. Said criminal was attempting to acquire a biological weapon of horrifying potential power and was stopped by the Avengers.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Scarlet Witch in prison for her work with Hydra and Ultron, but 'failed to let unimportant people die' isn't a good reason for doing anything.

There was a good argument in favour of putting Tony Stark in prison for ACTIVATING ULTRON, but he did that out of his armour and wouldn't have been stopped by an anti-superhero law. And he at least partially did it because Scarlet Witch messed with his mind. I like the way he was played in Winter Soldier, where he nearly fully realised that it was his fault and was trying to fix things.

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This, this is beautiful Zoat.

Now I really wanna see a scene of MCU Paul and what he does with this whole Accords shitfuckery.

We already saw Paul deal with Hardcastle when he attacked Xor, so it would be nice seeing Paul confront Ross over his mishandling of the Hulk situation.

The idea of the Accords is a fairly sound one, making sure that people with great and potentially destructive powers can be given oversight so that they don't abuse their powers, but the execution was just a clusterfuck.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Now I really wanna see a scene of MCU Paul and what he does with this whole Accords shitfuckery.

We already saw Paul deal with Hardcastle when he attacked Xor, so it would be nice seeing Paul confront Ross over his mishandling of the Hulk situation.

The idea of the Accords is a fairly sound one, making sure that people with great and potentially destructive powers can be given oversight so that they don't abuse their powers, but the execution was just a clusterfuck.

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I haven't really decided in my own mind when that version of the SI would return to Earth. I know there was a snippet of him being around during Captain America 2, but that wasn't a... Considered decision.