With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Flightless Man]

Your headcanon is wrong then.

White Martians, as well as Red Martians, existed since the Guardians first altered them, they weren't born after the alterations.

Karmang, wh9o is White, used to be a Burner before the Guardians altered him.
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My head cannon is likely wrong, yes. But as i have said, we do not know for sure. Were working basically off archaeological evidence(since even if paul asks a guardian/burner its a perspective and not an unbiased factual account.

Karmang is white, but as a shapeshifter, he has given reasons(which may be true) PoV characters are the only characters thoughts we can trust on if we are being lied to. No ones words or info in story is 100% guaranteed true.

until we have a scan of a guardians memories or go back in time, anything we "know" can change. the same way the martians own understanding of their history has changed.

And yes anyone inisting something is "fact" based on story event and not your own memories/interpretation, you need to quote it. I agree with anyone saying so.

No matter how smart any of us are, how educated, or what career we have, here on an online forum we have no way to prove our credentials. We can all be someone in grade 8 and very little life experiance. A 80 year old black grandmother who is a college proffesor. Or anything in between, but none of it matters because we have no proof. So here, unless your the story writer or a Mod, we are all in the same boat and have to prove our facts and discuss our opinion as equals.

 

[WereDragon]

And after taking a quick look at you, I don't think I'll be offering you one of my discretionary rings. Sometimes, revolutionary leaders are true selfless believers in the cause. T'ronn is more like that. He doesn't expect to gain anything personally, just some opportunities that aren't available to Whites when they become available to everyone else. Mr. B'lanx is a believer too, but it isn't just about the injustice. His pride depends that he be the one who creates the change, and he's more than a little interested in exercising that power personally. He's perfectly capable of being an Orange Lantern, just… Not someone I'd take a chance on when I couldn't keep an eye on them.

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Going by Dox's previous hieing 'standards' that means Mr. B'lanx will have a ring handed to him as soon as he agrees to fight the Reach first.
Dox is very keen on lanterns who will be useful and only cause problems either in the long term or far away.

 

[Darko]

The relevant facts are on both the Paragon side fight with the burner and Renegade side fight with the burner and the conversations that took place when Grayven removed the GUARDIAN limiters from Mgan and she turned red as a side effect. Grayven gave a lengthy explanation of his side three times, when he told Mgan, when he told her uncle the Martian man hunter and when he took his trip to Mars during his episode (when the Civil War started), the GUARDIAN recording shows up in the paragon episode, but it's also mentioned by Grayven.

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For some reason I'm now imagining Zoat changing a bit of what was said there, or at least adding more information, in this episode.

My head cannon is likely wrong, yes. But as i have said, we do not know for sure. Were working basically off archaeological evidence(since even if paul asks a guardian/burner its a perspective and not an unbiased factual account.

Karmang is white, but as a shapeshifter, he has given reasons(which may be true) PoV characters are the only characters thoughts we can trust on if we are being lied to. No ones words or info in story is 100% guaranteed true.

until we have a scan of a guardians memories or go back in time, anything we "know" can change. the same way the martians own understanding of their history has changed.

And yes anyone inisting something is "fact" based on story event and not your own memories/interpretation, you need to quote it. I agree with anyone saying so.

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Actually before Karmang killed the Martian government, M'gann was able to view his memories and saw that he was a White.

It would also be a good explanation for why he hated the Reds so much, because he suffered from racial prejudice

Going by Dox's previous hieing 'standards' that means Mr. B'lanx will have a ring handed to him as soon as he agrees to fight the Reach first.
Dox is very keen on lanterns who will be useful and only cause problems either in the long term or far away.

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Maybe not in this case.

Since Paul is now here he may also try to exert some of his own authority and stop him from getting a ring.

Edit: Also once again, they don't lack absolute empathy, they aren't all sociopaths, they have less inherent empathy. The ones that made Martian society the racist paradise it is were the red ones and the interaction Grayven had with their council highlights Jeem is an outlier not the norm (and this paragon episode confirms it as well).

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This episode confirmed that this city is one of the most racist ones.

It also confirmed that a lot of Mars is into this new racial equality thing, Paul mentioned a lot of people not being willing to help these racist assholes.

J'emm may be the most liberal member of the Martian government, but others were probably either less liberal or just moderates instead of racist assholes.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

I'm not sure it was ever stated, or shown, in this story that Whites were somehow less afraid of fire

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I personally based that assumption on how some reds, with training, could, for a short moment, do the molecular destabilization-thing the Burning Martians did, on a very small part of their body - it's apparently considered a mark of great mental discipline and ability. J'emm (who, in case you also sometimes have trouble keeping all the characters on this fic straight, was the "good" Prelate Paul met when disclosing the information on the martian's origins) demonstrated it when Paul first met him.
That and the fact that M'gann turned red when Grayven fixed her pyrophobia.

The relevant facts are on both the Paragon side fight with the burner and Renegade side fight with the burner and the conversations that took place when Grayven removed the GUARDIAN limiters from Mgan and she turned red as a side effect. Grayven gave a lengthy explanation of his side three times, when he told Mgan, when he told her uncle the Martian man hunter and when he took his trip to Mars during his episode (when the Civil War started), the GUARDIAN recording shows up in the paragon episode, but it's also mentioned by Grayven.

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I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember there ever being an explicit statement on the different colors of martians having different memtal and behavioral traits. I can't find the relevant chapters to provide a quote (I tried) and so I wouldn't necessarily demand you do so, but the idea that different colors of martians also having different personality traits doesn't seem congruent with this story so far - because it would imply that the maybe the whites are less capable at governing/the "important" jobs, and should occupy a more servile position in Martian society.

 

[Chaoswind]

And yes anyone inisting something is "fact" based on story event and not your own memories/interpretation, you need to quote it. I agree with anyone saying so.

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Only if I care enough to do it and this isn't a VS debate. If I didn't take the time to help with the wiki, I certainly wouldn't take the time to hunt for quotes. I am citing what I remember was said and gave time stands/episodes/conversations were it was said, if you can find them and demonstrate I am remembering wrong (it can happen, sometimes) then I will concede and revise my argument. If no one does then I see no issue with being wrong on the internet.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't remember there ever being an explicit statement on the different colors of martians having different memtal and behavioral traits. I can't find the relevant chapters to provide a quote (I tried) and so I wouldn't necessarily demand you do so, but the idea that different colors of martians also having different personality traits doesn't seem congruent with this story so far - because it would imply that the maybe the whites are less capable at governing/the "important" jobs, and should occupy a more servile position in Martian society.

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Having more or less empathy has no measurable impact on people being capable of doing a job, it does impact their effectiveness and how they will feel before/during/after, but capabilities are limited by knowledge, skills, training, etc, not personally types.

 

[Flightless Man]

Actually before Karmang killed the Martian government, M'gann was able to view his memories and saw that he was a White.

It would also be a good explanation for why he hated the Reds so much, because he suffered from racial prejudice
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I'm confused, are you disagreeing with me or trying to give a possible reason why it could be?

If Karmang was a burner he could have become a red or a white. One in my head basically has an immunity to the guardian programing (reds) and one has evolved beyond the conditionining.(whites). I basically see reds and whites as the most similar through what amounts to convergent evolution.

Karmang's memories showed him as white yes, but i don't see how this disproves my headcannon? I know my theory doesn't have very much, if any support. But so far i havent seen anything that explicitely disprove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. and thats all i need.

Only if I care enough to do it and this isn't a VS debate. If I didn't take the time to help with the wiki, I certainly wouldn't take the time to hunt for quotes. I am citing what I remember was said and gave time stands/episodes/conversations were it was said, if you can find them and demonstrate I am remembering wrong (it can happen, sometimes) then I will concede and revise my argument. If no one does then I see no issue with being wrong on the internet.
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See working on the wiki is easily confirmed. so your interpretation does infact carry a little more weight. and like you said, you are sharing some relevent info in support of your topic.

I'm more talking about the back and forth of "I'm right" "no i"m right". If if devolves to that, prove your facts(i mean the royal you here not you specifically).

We can all discuss our ideas and interpretations of the events. but if 99%(since we have no proof of who we are) of us say its a fact and demand eveyone listen, we have to prove it.

 

[Darko]

I'm confused, are you disagreeing with me or trying to give a possible reason why it could be?

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I'm trying to say that we technically do have some evidence as to why the various colorations of Martian all came to exist when the Guardians were finished with the Burners, instead of them being born after several years, as you implied when you said that the White Martians were born after that.

Though given that Karmang is kinda insane he may have been lying about some of those things, but I doubt it to be honest.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

Having more or less empathy has no measurable impact on people being capable of doing a job, it does impact their effectiveness and how they will feel before/during/after, but capabilities are limited by knowledge, skills, training, etc, not personally types.

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I disagree with some of that, and also think that's a bit simplified/simplifying a way of looking at those things and what personal ability and aptitude can entail, but, considering that those things are rather more about personal conviction and opinion, I don't think we can really have a productive discussion about this. So I'm not going to pursue this further.

The rest of my argument, however, that, in this story, having actual personality differences based on what is essentially race could (and, at least in my case, does) make one uncomfortable and feels especially weird considering the so-far pro-integration/equality message in this arc. Which is the main reason why I'm sceptic.

 

[Flightless Man]

I'm trying to say that we technically do have some evidence as to why the various colorations of Martian all came to exist when the Guardians were finished with the Burners, instead of them being born after several years, as you implied when you said that the White Martians were born after that.

Though given that Karmang is kinda insane he may have been lying about some of those things, but I doubt it to be honest.

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Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. Well this nearlly extinguishes my headcannon then. I still think Reds and whites are accidents. Reds resisted the changes made. Whites evolved past them by embarcing all emotions equally. (since white light is all the lantern colors). but this is my headcannon and i'm not trying to convince anyone since i have no proof. I just believe red/white are mistakes.

 

[Darko]

Ah okay, thanks for clarifying. Well this nearlly extinguishes my headcannon then. I still think Reds and whites are accidents. Reds resisted the changes made. Whites evolved past them by embarcing all emotions equally. (since white light is all the lantern colors). but this is my headcannon and i'm not trying to convince anyone since i have no proof. I just believe red/white are mistakes.

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You may be right that the three divisions were accidents, since they do seem weird.

Though I doubt the White Martians have a connection to the White Light anymore than other species do, or that they embraced all emotions.

 

[Chaoswind]

I disagree with some of that, and also think that's a bit simplified/simplifying a way of looking at those things and what personal ability and aptitude can entail, but, considering that those things are rather more about personal conviction and opinion, I don't think we can really have a productive discussion about this. So I'm not going to pursue this further.

The rest of my argument, however, that, in this story, having actual personality differences based on what is essentially race could (and, at least in my case, does) make one uncomfortable and feels especially weird considering the so-far pro-integration/equality message in this arc. Which is the main reason why I'm sceptic.

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Grandfathered from DC Canon... The different colors do have different dominant personality types in some DC Canon even if the details are clearly very different in this fic, DC Canon isn't the be all end all of this fic (that is Zoat) but we need to remember he isn't creating everything from zero, he is interpreting and putting an original twist on different stuff from DC.

 

[Mr Zoat]

As far as I remember comic canon, White and Green are the result of thinking in certain ways, not a part of their biology. At least, when the writer remembers. At other times they are. And of course Red Martians don't exist.

Karmang was 'born' a Burner, and was reformatted into a White. He doesn't care about any personal prejudice he may have suffered, but is frustrated that none of his acolytes ended up doing what he wanted them to do.

 

[Darko]

Karmang was 'born' a Burner, and was reformatted into a White. He doesn't care about any personal prejudice he may have suffered, but is frustrated that none of his acolytes ended up doing what he wanted them to do.

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What did he want them to do exactly?

I'm assuming he wanted them to lead, or at least teach magic to, the Martians, but all Martians no matter what their color is, and to treat them equally.

Is this it?

 

[rkyeun]

I think I saw the Sword/Crest series a long time ago. I think I still have the HK subbed DVD's stored in a tote in my garage.

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Very different thing. Crest of the Stars the anime space opera is not Sword of the Stars the 4X space strategy video game.

 

[Mr Zoat]

What did he want them to do exactly?

I'm assuming he wanted them to lead, or at least teach magic to, the Martians, but all Martians no matter what their color is, and to treat them equally.

Is this it?

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No, he wanted them to learn to undo what the Guardians did.

 

[Zig]

So he's a lot like Komand'r, in that he's power hungry and even if he does try to do a good thing he would most likely resort to the most violent method even if said method is not necessary.

Nice that you didn't recruit him, since another Wombworld incident is probably best avoided.

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If he really wanted the powerup, he should have tried to kill Paul.

 

[Darko]

If he really wanted the powerup, he should have tried to kill Paul.

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Paul has helped people that have tried to destroy him and those he cares about, Luthor being an example of one such person he has helped, but who has tried to have him and those he cares about destroyed.

That girl who called him for an interview after Roanoke is another example, though she didn't really do much of anything to him compared to Luthor.

Though I think Paul may have figured out that giving power to power hungry madmen who try to kill him is a bad idea, so he may not give this guy a ring.

Well if he changes his behavior during his service in the war, then he may get one.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

If he really wanted the powerup, he should have tried to kill Paul.

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Picking a fight with even one Lantern seems foolhardy. Because even if you succeed, you still then get only one weapon that a Martian or group of Martians can overcome with some effort and/or skill and/or luck - so not that big a game changer.
And you'll potentially have to deal with said Lantern's former colleague's later when they come to check what's happened.
No, trying to get in good with the weird glowing alien and get some rings the legal way seems like the more clever way.

 

[Darko]

Picking a fight with even one Lantern seems foolhardy. Because even if you succeed, you still then get only one weapon that a Martian or group of Martians can overcome with some effort and/or skill and/or luck - so not that big a game changer.
And you'll potentially have to deal with said Lantern's former colleague's later when they come to check what's happened.
No, trying to get in good with the weird glowing alien and get some rings the legal way seems like the more clever way.

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I think that he was just making a joke that Paul sometimes empowers people that have tried to kill him.

 

[Pez]

I think that he was just making a joke that Paul sometimes empowers people that have tried to kill him.

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Paul's about rehabilitation, if possible, and fits in with his desires. Today's enemy is tomorrow's friend (or lover or ally or just less homocidal or less likely to break the world).

 

[Zig]

Picking a fight with even one Lantern seems foolhardy. Because even if you succeed, you still then get only one weapon that a Martian or group of Martians can overcome with some effort and/or skill and/or luck - so not that big a game changer.
And you'll potentially have to deal with said Lantern's former colleague's later when they come to check what's happened.
No, trying to get in good with the weird glowing alien and get some rings the legal way seems like the more clever way.

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I think that he was just making a joke that Paul sometimes empowers people that have tried to kill him.

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Paul's about rehabilitation, if possible, and fits in with his desires. Today's enemy is tomorrow's friend (or lover or ally or just less homocidal or less likely to break the world).

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Yes that was indeed the joke, that going about it the friendly way would be a good idea for most people but for Paul it seems like attacking him is the best way to get what you want.

 

[SpiritualSlacker]

Yes that was indeed the joke, that going about it the friendly way would be a good idea for most people but for Paul it seems like attacking him is the best way to get what you want.

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My bad then. I might have felt a bit combative. Hope you didn't have to roll your eyes too hard.

 

[DrThoth]

Karmang does appreciate some of the aspects of being a non-Burner so I assume he wanted a partial or controlled dissolution of the programming (I'll have to reread the Renegade episode he showed up in to be sure, though I do hope he wasn't killed off-screen). Did Jevek Jos Jar/another Controller use the Burning Martian specimen to create Effigy, or am I misremembering? That could be valuable data to share at some point too, especially since Maltusian oversight will likely be useful in preventing any serious accidents (as long as they aren't as weirdly naive as the Guardians from the crashed ship).

Did the Reds not fulfil his wishes out of genuine inability or did the incentives of a new hierarchy of power win out? We saw some cool magic feats from 'regular' Red Martians in the Renegade episode but hardly anything that compares to Earth's caliber (if it's fair to make comparisons with your local neighboring death-world). I imagine it was kind of a mix, especially since Reds do inspire a bit of majesty and are probably still more authoritative and prone to dominance, if not as violently so as their forebears. I forget how Hyperclan and other Martians got deprogrammed on Mars (I believe there were a fair number who didn't do so through Circe or Renegade).

Thinking of forebears, were Burning Martians also sexually dimorphic, or was that introduced through Guardian manipulation? They reproduced asexually in the comics but I don't recall what the case was here. I don't really see the reason why a species of shapeshifters needs to have that reproductive setup anyway, either originally or from the reformatting; a Left Hand of Darkness situation or something makes more sense to me.

How easy would a Martian magic user find transitioning to a wholly new arcane system like Earth? The Venturians don't seem to have had notable issues working on other planets, but I don't think we've spent enough time with the latter to know for sure. I'd like to see M'gann possibly learning magic, either the native Martian tradition as a fuck-you to the existing hegemony, or possibly developing her own style mixing her Martian abilities and Earth traditions. I know the G-Oni experiment was a disaster (and I forget if there are still some loose) but the Genomorphs should be interesting case studies to learn from, given the broad similarities of physical/genetic mutability and psychic capability.

Actually, regarding the Genomorphs, I know Doctor Mist appointed himself as supervisor for any magic they do, but they should also get Jason Blood on board, the better to screen for the most malevolent mystic influences (and it'll give him another reason to show up in the story, given his connections to Hell aren't that important in light of President Mammon's relationship with Paragon). Though Blood could also be a useful character to facilitate Paragon meeting Morgaine le Fey, if she ever shows up in that timeline. I forget how Paragon-Britain is doing in the aftermath of the Silver City invasion, but I believe a lot of the conspiracy/cult's infrastructure was destroyed, even if they weren't killed/were resurrected after?

My post jumps from topic to topic a lot, but I suppose shifting from Burning Martians to Hell has a kind of logical flow.

 

[Darko]

Karmang does appreciate some of the aspects of being a non-Burner so I assume he wanted a partial or controlled dissolution of the programming (I'll have to reread the Renegade episode he showed up in to be sure, though I do hope he wasn't killed off-screen). Did Jevek Jos Jar/another Controller use the Burning Martian specimen to create Effigy, or am I misremembering? That could be valuable data to share at some point too, especially since Maltusian oversight will likely be useful in preventing any serious accidents (as long as they aren't as weirdly naive as the Guardians from the crashed ship).

Did the Reds not fulfil his wishes out of genuine inability or did the incentives of a new hierarchy of power win out? We saw some cool magic feats from 'regular' Red Martians in the Renegade episode but hardly anything that compares to Earth's caliber (if it's fair to make comparisons with your local neighboring death-world). I imagine it was kind of a mix, especially since Reds do inspire a bit of majesty and are probably still more authoritative and prone to dominance, if not as violently so as their forebears. I forget how Hyperclan and other Martians got deprogrammed on Mars (I believe there were a fair number who didn't do so through Circe or Renegade).

Thinking of forebears, were Burning Martians also sexually dimorphic, or was that introduced through Guardian manipulation? They reproduced asexually in the comics but I don't recall what the case was here. I don't really see the reason why a species of shapeshifters needs to have that reproductive setup anyway, either originally or from the reformatting; a Left Hand of Darkness situation or something makes more sense to me.

How easy would a Martian magic user find transitioning to a wholly new arcane system like Earth? The Venturians don't seem to have had notable issues working on other planets, but I don't think we've spent enough time with the latter to know for sure. I'd like to see M'gann possibly learning magic, either the native Martian tradition as a fuck-you to the existing hegemony, or possibly developing her own style mixing her Martian abilities and Earth traditions. I know the G-Oni experiment was a disaster (and I forget if there are still some loose) but the Genomorphs should be interesting case studies to learn from, given the broad similarities of physical/genetic mutability and psychic capability.

Actually, regarding the Genomorphs, I know Doctor Mist appointed himself as supervisor for any magic they do, but they should also get Jason Blood on board, the better to screen for the most malevolent mystic influences (and it'll give him another reason to show up in the story, given his connections to Hell aren't that important in light of President Mammon's relationship with Paragon). Though Blood could also be a useful character to facilitate Paragon meeting Morgaine le Fey, if she ever shows up in that timeline. I forget how Paragon-Britain is doing in the aftermath of the Silver City invasion, but I believe a lot of the conspiracy/cult's infrastructure was destroyed, even if they weren't killed/were resurrected after?

My post jumps from topic to topic a lot, but I suppose shifting from Burning Martians to Hell has a kind of logical flow.

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Jevekl used that Burning Martian to make Effigy.

And as for the Britain fiasco, the ones who dealt with demons were killed and the club was destroyed, though the others survived.

 

[Mr Zoat]

4th July 2012
21:59 GMT

"No."

"You may want to reconsider that."

Unlike my relatively intimate meeting in Prelate J'emm's office, Prelate P'thet's… Throne room is an expansive affair. Our Green Manhunter escort handed us over to armed Reds in the antechamber with a bizarre degree of grovelling, and as far as I can tell those Reds are part of the Prelate's all-Red bodyguard. The Red heads of the local Manhunter force stand in attendance, while a cross section of their Green subordinates kneel behind them with their hands on the floor in ritual supplication. And it's not just the Manhunters; the theme repeats itself amongst the civil servants and priests. At least, I assume that the Greens with the magic users are priests: their clothing is different enough that they might just be vergers or something.

The Prelate herself looks almost identical to every other Martian I've seen. Some ornamentation with what my rune stone says are enchanted accoutrements, but there's nothing particularly unique about the default Martian physique she's using. Whatever it does, it's not blocking my empathic vision. Unlike Mr. B'lanx she's not in this for herself, but rather to maintain a system of order that she regards as the divinely revealed correct way to live. A genuine believer in noblesse oblige, and in the natural inferiority of those she's obliged to. In the American context, she wouldn't set fire to a cross on a White Martian's lawn, but she wouldn't want them to be able to get golf club membership.

"After all, as I understand it, your office only grants you the authority to restrict your citizens from migrating to other Martian cities."

The composition of the attendants just shouts that they have a highly racially stratified society, and that the entire power structure depends on it. There's not a single White here, nor anywhere else in the building. The Greens are permanently genuflecting, and the Reds the only ones allowed to speak. The Greens are literally just here to take up room behind their hereditary overlords. And they're fine with it. As far as I can see, they consider this an honour.

"That is merely a specifically enumerated power. I also have a wide variety of powers which I may exercise in order to preserve civil order."

Fucking emergency laws. I hate those blasted things. I've heard it said that hard cases make bad law, but my personal belief is that a law should be able to handle unusual situations. If it can't, it's a bad law and should be improved, not entirely bypassed by giving supreme executive authority to someone. At least not during peace time.

"And you believe that preventing violent political radicals from leaving improves civil order?"

"Letting them go is an admission of defeat, of the acceptability of slights against the divine order. I will not sacrifice the future perfection of our civilisation to make a short term accommodation with a disruptive element."

"I… Shared a particular memory with Prelate J'emm last year. I was rather under the impression that he'd shared it in turn with his fellow prelates. Have you seen it?"

"Yes. But it is irrelevant. The 'Guardians'-" She looks… I'm guessing 'coldly', but Martian faces aren't all that expressive, at John. "-did not create order here after they left. Karmang the Good did, and this is the order which he decreed. The reasons he had for doing so are irrelevant, as is the origin of the groups for which he decreed it."

Ah. Blind faith. J'emm was willing to change things because he only kept it going due to the fact that it was tradition. Once he found out the true origin of the three colours he considered it rationally and realised that it was irrelevant. But P'thet has Word of Karmang, and is not at home to reason. Unless Karmang him or herself turns up in person-.

"I'm afraid that Martian records being telepathic has rather precluded me from learning about Karmang. Are they a god, or merely an enlightened Martian?"

"Karmang the Good was the greatest teacher and builder of our earliest history. He established our first cities and temples and taught the basics of agriculture and magic to our most distant forebears. He created our civilisation and ordained its proper order. We do not consider him to be… Something separate from Martians, but he is our most revered antecedent."

"Are you still in contact with him?"

"No. To the best of my knowledge he is long dead. Martians live longer than humans, but not forever."

"But you have access to magic. Don't you have necromancers?"

"No."

"Because I know some necromancers? I mean, if Karmang's final word is that the White Martians should submit to your rule there's really nowhere for me to go, but it seems to me that the highest authority on what Karmang wanted is Karmang himself."

"This is not a matter in which there is any confusion. All of Mars agrees that all of Karmang's disciples were Red, as were those he anointed primates and prelates. Even if I knew a way to communicate with his spirit directly, I would not trouble him over an issue like this."

Interesting. Z'üm was talking to someone called Karmang, and all of the Hyperclan members I met had Z'orr in place of their family name. They clearly had access to magic…

"And just to confirm: amongst Martians, magic is an unbroken secret amongst the Red priesthood? I understand that some cities are more liberal about such things than yours."

"Primate?"

The leader of the clerical delegation genuflects to the throne, then rises to face me.

"The energy manipulated by the arcane arts is theoretically available to anyone. But even in the most divergent temples, no Martian who is not Red has ever been taught, nor copied the style of magic taught there."

"And you have no records of either Green or White Martians becoming notable magic users outside of your tradition?"

"No. Those Whites who identify themselves as the Hyperclan are augmented by magic, but none have any skill with magic themselves. Once the Rite of Ending is performed they either die or are restored to their original form."

"So it's either a Red or an alien that's doing it."

"If… Forced to speculate, I would imagine that it was most likely a White who had developed a magic tradition independently."

"Is that..? Is that heretical? I mean, they wouldn't be using the tradition Karmang taught the Reds…"

"Yes, it's heretical. The tradition Karmang taught is the only tradition which fits within the social system which he laid out for us to live by."

"Do the other cities see it the same way?"

"If they do not, they hide it well."

I nod, and smile at the Prelate.

"Thank you both for the information. I feel obliged to inform you that I will be requesting clarification from the Planetary Council on whether you actually have the authority to do what you're doing, and given the general opinion on the subject amongst your fellow Prelates I fully expect them to say that you don't."

I bow.

"Thank you for speaking with me. I'll show myself out."

Without waiting for a formal dismissal I turn and fly away, back towards the main doors. The entire ruling elite, and not one that I could see had a contrary opinion. And not 'they had them, but were keeping quiet for reasons of self preservation.'. They've all drunken the kool aid, the White enemy within keeping them together in the face of the opposition of anyone with any sense.

I wonder if the Controllers do have a spare planet I can borrow?

 

[Idkusername]

After Emma, I'm no longer surprised by female self-righteous Red heads.

 

[Darko]

and not only are the Reds the only ones allowed to speak the Greens

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maybe add a comma 'to speak, the Greens'

Karmang the Good did, and this is the order which he decreed. The reasons he had for doing so are irrelevant, as is the origin of the groups for which he decreed it."

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Ohh, I know Karmang is dangerous, but I can't wait for him to make an appearance and shatter her worldview.

Unless Karmang him or herself turns up in person-.

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If the episode continues like this then he just may.

Z'üm saw talking to someone called Karmang

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'was talking'

Rite of Ending

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Can we get a description of what this is?

tradition with fits within the social

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'which fits' or 'that fits'

And not 'they had them, but were keeping quiet for reasons of self preservation.

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Missing a ' at the end there.

 

[RichardWhereat]

I wonder if the Controllers do have a spare planet I can borrow?

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And if not, I fully expect that Paul will be able to make one himself, with sex workers, and gambling facilities.

 

[BlueMangoAdea]

I wonder if the Controllers do have a spare planet I can borrow?

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Ah, an interesting solution. If the local Red Martian government wouldn't grant White Martians equality, just move all the willing White Martians to a new planet so that they can make their own government. I wonder what the Hyperclan would think of that.

 

[Darko]

Ah, an interesting solution. If the local Red Martian government wouldn't grant White Martians equality, just move all the willing White Martians to a new planet so that they can make their own government. I wonder what the Hyperclan would think of that.

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Considering they're one of the most violent groups they may not all be onboard with the idea.

They may honestly want to take down the Reds first instead of going to someplace else.