With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

DougA · Mar 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Do you think that all historical slave owners were sociopaths?

Also, ANCIENT GREECE. Morality, even ethics were totally different, in too many different ways than we can count. There were actually several different kinds of slave, with different words for each, including penal slaves, for criminal behaviour...usually for a fixed term, not permanent. And war captives, who were treated with some respect. And other kinds, too, just read Salamis by Turtledove, he goes into it in that series a bit. Basically, have to judge her by the morals and standards of her time, which were radically different from ours.

Jason's trip to steal the golden fleece from another country was completely ethical...by classic Grecian standards.

Flightless Man · Mar 27, 2021

DougA said:
Also, ANCIENT GREECE. Morality, even ethics were totally different, in too many different ways than we can count. There were actually several different kinds of slave, with different words for each, including penal slaves, for criminal behaviour...usually for a fixed term, not permanent. And war captives, who were treated with some respect. And other kinds, too, just read Salamis by Turtledove, he goes into it in that series a bit. Basically, have to judge her by the morals and standards of her time, which were radically different from ours.

Jason's trip to steal the golden fleece from another country was completely ethical...by classic Grecian standards.

We don't have to judge her by ancient rules. She's alive now and a part of society( If she stayed on her island and only transformed the travellers who invade/land on her island, then yes we could judge her by ancient standards. But she sings in Vegas.). if in 3'000 years she can't adapt to new morals and standards, she hasn't kept up with advancement. When a grandparent is casually rascist, yes we go they are from a different time and they don't mean it the same way (generally because of the age and mental condition, we don't correct them.), but they are still wrong and Circe has all her mental faculties.

You only get the "from another era" pass, when you retire from society and are not keeping up because your going to die soon/your brain is degrading.

Bramble Thorn · Mar 27, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Do you think that all historical slave owners were sociopaths?

Zoat, you are kind of being fucked up here.

Slave owners at least had a level of removal from their actions, and at least they were not doing the initial enslavement. And as far as I know, none of them, used magic to go from metaphorical dehumanisation to literal dehumanisation by giving those they enslaved animal features.

I agree calling bad people sociopaths is a scummy 'virtue signaling' way to gain internet points, and Darko should cut that crap out?
But wasn't it you said that if you were dropped back into the revolutionary war period, would have no problem killing Washington as a traitorous slaver? Think of Circe as Washington, plus she didn't inherit the slaves, she did the enslaving herself buy right of conquest, and then used magic to physically mutilated the slaves to less human forms so they wouldn't be able to escape their lot easily. She is useful, and what is happening now is more important then what happened in the past (and let's not forget that past was as recent as last year IIRC), but that doesn't mean her actions were really defensible, just pardonable.

Stsword · Mar 27, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
It depends a bit on what backstory Zoat is going with, but afaik Arion encountered (and built) Shizo tech in his time.

When we saw Atlantis, it showed the Atlantean guards using laser rifles and that Starro was cryogenically frozen in the Atlantean Science Center which is run by the Atlantean Royal Science Advisor Vulko.

Vulko, who was a good enough scientist that he helped create the cure for the Starro-tech.

And in the tie-in comic Kaldur revealed that Atlanteans were turned into water breathers by a combination of technology and magic. So YJ Atlantis had genetic engineering thousands of years ago.

And according to Word of Greg Kaldur's Waterbearers are technomagic.

Despite that, Zoat made his version of Atlantis magic based.

So unless Zoat has a story point in mind about Atlantis used to be high technology but abandoned it for magic, I suspect that Zoat will remain consistent with his depiction of Atlantis as a magic based culture.

Mr Zoat · Mar 27, 2021

Bramble Thorn said:
Zoat, you are kind of being fucked up here.

Slave owners at least had a level of removal from their actions, and at least they were not doing the initial enslavement.

No, there were plenty of slave owners who were directly involved in impressing their slaves. I'm not limiting myself to the transatlantic trade here.

And as far as I know, none of them, used magic to go from metaphorical dehumanisation to literal dehumanisation by giving those they enslaved animal features.

Middle Eastern slave traders routinely castrated their male stock. Is that close enough?

But wasn't it you said that if you were dropped back into the revolutionary war period, would have no problem killing Washington as a traitorous slaver? Think of Circe as Washington, plus she didn't inherit the slaves, she did the enslaving herself buy right of conquest, and then used magic to physically mutilated the slaves to less human forms so they wouldn't be able to escape their lot easily. She is useful, and what is happening now is more important then what happened in the past (and let's not forget that past was as recent as last year IIRC), but that doesn't mean her actions were really defensible, just pardonable.

I'm not trying to say that she's a good and moral person. She isn't. I'm saying that she's not a sociopath, because she is capable of forming emotional attachments.

DrThoth · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
I'm not trying to say that she's a good and moral person. She isn't. I'm saying that she's not a sociopath, because she is capable of forming emotional attachments.

People seem to forget how technical and pedantic Zoat can be; maybe that should be part of the FAQ-that-no-one-reads (if it already is and I forgot, I suppose that just validates the joke even further).

nick012000 · Mar 28, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
It depends a bit on what backstory Zoat is going with, but afaik Arion encountered (and built) Shizo tech in his time.

He should know that non-magical threats are an issue as well.

Unless he thinks the Unmen are caused by a curse or something?

Also, IIRC the Un-Men were originally created by Anton Arcane using the power of The Rot. It's entirely plausible that without using the power of life-attuned magical energies like The Red, The Green, or The White Light, reversing their condition might not be possible.

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

12th July 2012
13:05 GMT -8
FACE ME!
Iname just runs outside, but I'm limited to more mortal speeds. A hush tube takes me out into the car park in front of the main building, my visor over my eyes as I search for my target and my god powers fully activated, reaching out across my ally's home territory. Whoever this is will have to choose between fighting me directly or accepting being weakened by the Source.

Seven metres away to my left Knockout tanks a blast of luminous cyan fire on the shield she grudgingly accepted from my armoury.

"I will tear your liver from your chest, wizard!"

Now where is the blight-?

Lighting flashes out of nowhere, biting at my armour. But the wizard hasn't appeared in person. My challenge is unanswered, and the blast which previously scythed through entire buildings patters off my armour like spring rain. If it was being manually cast then it would only be a little weaker, so-. Automatic?

"Tcetorp Nevyarg morf eht pu-wollof!"

Huh?

A rainbow beam like the one that nullified my construct monsters flies at me, only to be struck by a beam from-. Zatara's amulet. The beam fades away, only the weakest residues carrying on to strike my left gauntlet. 'Protect Grayven…'

"Giovanni!" I draw my daiklave. "Good to see you. Whatever brings you here?"

"Arion." He drifts a little closer, carefully watching the space around us. "Or as he would have originally been called in his native Atlantis, Ahri'ahn."

"Arion? William Knightley?" I frown. "I interviewed him for Larissa's school when I was trying to help her find teachers, the man's a tit. He's nothing like powerful enough to do this."

Zatara raises his eyebrows. "William.. Knightley?" I nod. "Then at least I know the victim's name. I was referring to the original Arion, not the man who unwisely began using his name."

Oh. "Ahri'ahn, the founder of the Atlantean school of magic Ahri'ahn?"

"The very same."

Huh. Kind of surprised we're doing this well. Though… Circe herself demonstrates that there's a limit to how good a magician attached to their human physiology can get. And she had access to an appreciable chunk of Hecate's power prior to giving it up. Nabu and Jebediah have elemental order, Klarion and Company have elemental chaos making them more than they were. I have a fragment of the Source. Ahri'ahn was famous for not having any interest in making any sort of bargain with an elemental creature. And if he hasn't been keeping up with modern thaumaturgy then he won't be knowledgeable enough to use work arounds in the way that Sunset does. So he's probably dangerous but not ridiculously s-.

Space… Ripples, and then the air surges past me at skin-scouring speed! Iname dashes away, trying to outrun it while Knockout just braces and Zatara clutches his amulet.

"A weak-."

Yeah, it doesn't really hurt but there's no way he'll be able to hear me until the noise has died down a little. I fold my arms behind my back, Darkseid-style. Five, six-. There we go.

"A weak effort, Ahri'ahn. Considering your legend I expected better. Or were all of your battle magics cast against defenceless civilians, even in the days of antemergerentur Atlantis? I don't recall my Atlantean colleagues mentioning you ever fighting an equal, but I had assumed that was just due to the gulf of time. Is this really all you can do?"

Zatara grits his teeth.

"Grayven."

"Method to my madness, Zatara. All sorts of things happen when you don't play ball with a New God." I spread my arms out a little. "Want to try shooting me again? It'll be even less effective this time, then less still and still."

I make a show of walking in a circle, but I'm watching out quite carefully. My goggles revealing nothing means that in a very real sense that he's not here. He's not dodging us by being invisible or intangible. Remote viewing is perfectly possible, but countering that would require highly sophisticated magic of a sort that I'll have to rely on Sunset or Circe for.

"Don't make me use school yard insults. We'll both feel the lesser for it."

There's a peculiar waft of sea spray from the roof of the entry gate guard station, and my goggles show me all sorts of interesting information about exactly how he's interacting with local space. I'll share it with Sunset when things are a little calmer. A moment passes and then a man in early modern and decidedly non-Atlantean dress precipitates out of his portal. And when I say non-Atlantean, I mean neither historical Atlantean nor modern Atlantean.

So I say the first thing that comes into my head.

"What's with the clothes?"

"Alien."

No trace of an Atlantean accent. He's been speaking English for a while, well enough to inject enough contempt into the word to make it clear how he feels about me. Alright then.

"By the authority invested in me by the American Federal Government, I am placing you under arrest."

He doesn't even bother to raise an eyebrow.

"Do you honestly expect me to comply?"

"No. No. But they like it if I try. What was this all about, anyway?"

"It's about you disgusting creatures using my work." He holds out his right hand and a book I.. don't recognise teleports into his hand. "My actual work. You.. create these abominations and celebrate it. You're like children proudly standing next to a shit-filled potty."

"Whaw, modern Atlanteans sure get you wrong. So… You want every un-man dead and their records expunged?"

"And you and your lackeys dead, and that order cultist as well."

"Excuse us if we don't try-" The tron lines on my armour switch from yellow to orange as I focus my mind on my revulsion at his wantonly destructive attitude. "-to take you alive, then."

Knockout charges and the water foam rises again, Iname's scythe passing through the area he occupied-

"Agh!"

-a moment before with no resistance. I turn-. Shit!

A mosquito-like insectoid has pounced on Zatara, proboscis punching through his magic shield and stabbing-

My construct ram hits it a moment later, ramming it through the exterior wall of the Uncorporation building and back inside.

-him in the.. leg. He clutches the wound, staggering for a moment before collapsing to the ground.

Scan.

Non-human matter detected.

Iname dashes up, looking at him with concern.

"Master-?"

"Get him to Sunset. I'll clear up the rest of the insectoids."

"What about the wizard, Master?"

My face darkens.

"We'll have to go after him later."

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

DrThoth said:
People seem to forget how technical and pedantic Zoat can be; maybe that should be part of the FAQ-that-no-one-reads (if it already is and I forgot, I suppose that just validates the joke even further).

Sigh.

Added.

Idkusername · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
and my god powers fully activated, reaching out across my ally's home territory. Whoever this is will have to choose between fighting me directly or accepting being weakened by the Source.

Quoted for invisible text.

DrThoth · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"Giovannai!" I draw my daiklave.

Typo or deliberate obscure inside joke/reference?

Mr Zoat said:
"It's about you disgusting creatures using my work." He holds out his right hand and a book I.. don't recognise teleports into his hand. "My actual work. You.. create these abominations and celebrate it. You're like children proudly standing next to a shit-filled potty."

I wonder if this is just a reference to Venturian biomancers helping Cranius out, or something more significant.

Maybe this series of events is how Zatara becomes Awakened, accepting the limits of his current capabilities.

Darko · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
FACE ME!

Ahh, magic fight.

Mr Zoat said:
Whatever bring you here?"

'brings'

Mr Zoat said:
Arion." He drifts a little close

'closer'

Mr Zoat said:
was famous for not having any interest in making any sort of bargain with an elemental creature

Well in your story.

In the comics, both pre and post Flashpoint, he didn't really seem to have that issue.

Not that it helped him much, especially in the n52 with Poseidon.

Mr Zoat said:
No trace of an Atlantean accent. He's been speaking English for a while

Or the accent Atlanteans from his time had was very different.

Mr Zoat said:
a book I.. don't recognise teleports into his hand.

Maybe something Cranius got from Atlantis.

Vaermina · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
12th July 2012
13:05 GMT -8
FACE ME

An almost complete defeat for Grayven.

Handlewithcare · Mar 28, 2021

Well, Arion's a disappointment.

I had hoped for someone more epic than this.

Darko · Mar 28, 2021

Handlewithcare said:
Well, Arion's a disappointment.

I had hoped for someone more epic than this.

It has been just one chapter, so if we are going to see his power then it'll probably happen in the following chapters.

And remember, renegade used that challenge power of his to weaken him.

If he'd been allowed to use his full power then I think he would have given a better fight.

Chojin Patriarch · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
12th July 2012
13:05 GMT -8
FACE ME!
Iname just runs outside, but I'm limited to more mortal speeds. A hush tube takes me out into the car park in front of the main building, my visor over my eyes as I search for my target and my god powers fully activated, reaching out across my ally's home territory. Whoever this is will have to choose between fighting me directly or accepting being weakened by the Source.

Heh, best way to shut down his magic. Force the Narrative into a face-to-face confrontation, or face his attacks becoming weaker and weaker. Arion the Elder's got a tough choice.

Seven metres away to my left Knockout tanks a blast of luminous cyan fire on the shield she grudgingly accepted from my armoury.

"I will tear your liver from your chest, wizard!"

Once he shows himself, anyway. Unfortunately, Arion the Elder seems to be the sort to avoid direct assaults upon his person...

Now where is the blight-?

Lighting flashes out of nowhere, biting at my armour. But the wizard hasn't appeared in person. My challenge is unanswered, and the blast which previously scythed through entire buildings patters off my armour like spring rain. If it was being manually cast then it would only be a little weaker, so-. Automatic?

Man, it's interesting to see what gets noticed from perspective to perspective... Even the timelines are a little asynchronous...

"Tcetorp Nevyarg morf eht pu-wollof!"

Huh?

A rainbow beam like the one that nullified my construct monsters flies at me, only to be struck by a beam from-. Zatara's amulet. The beam fades away, only the weakest residues carrying on to strike my left gauntlet. 'Protect Grayven…'

Welp, the second-squishiest on the battlefield has arrived. Iname being the first, unless her New Godhood has increased her toughness that much. Zatara at least has magical protections...

"Giovannai!" I draw my daiklave. "Good to see you. Whatever bring you here?"

"Arion." He drifts a little close, carefully watching the space around us. "Or as he would have originally been called in his native Atlantis, Ahri'ahn."

And there it is. Now Grayven knows what and who he's dealing with. Time to turn his natural charisma to the matter.

"Arion? William Knightley?" I frown. "I interviewed him for Larissa's school when I was trying to help her find teachers, the man's a tit. He's nothing like powerful enough to do this."

Zatara raises his eyebrows. "William.. Knightley?" I nod. "Then at least I know the victim's name. I was referring to the original Arion, not the man who unwisely began using his name."

Yes, such a wise choice to 'borrow' the name of a powerful wizard of unknown mortality status. Second only to using the name of Gods, and besmirching them in the process, in terms of foolishness.

Oh. "Ahri'ahn, the founder of the Atlantean school of magic Ahri'ahn?"

"The very same."

Nice to have it said out loud once and for all. Not that we didn't know already, but information is power, and Grayven uses power well.

Huh. Kind of surprised we're doing this well. Though… Circe herself demonstrates that there's a limit to how good a magician attached to their human physiology can get. And she had access to an appreciable chunk of Hecate's power prior to giving it up. Nabu and Jebediah have elemental order, Klarion and Company have elemental chaos making them more than they were. I have a fragment of the Source. Ahri'ahn was famous for not having any interest in making any sort of bargain with an elemental creature. And if he hasn't been keeping up with modern thaumaturgy then he won't be knowledgeable enough to use work arounds in the way that Sunset does. So he's probably dangerous but not ridiculously s-.

And people say I tempt Murphy? Arion the Elder is responsible for the spell that reshaped Atlanteans into an aquatic species (or at least took credit for it.) The way Atlanteans speak of him suggests a considerable amount of power to back up the legends.

Space… Ripples, and then the air surges past me at skin-scouring speed! Imane dashes away, trying to outrun it while Knockout just braces and Zatara clutches his amulet.

"A weak-."

A simple wind-blade spell? Weak sauce, Arion. You've seen them shrug off lightning and prismatic bolts. Why would you expect anything else to work? Unless he plans to make a dramatic appearance.

Yeah, it doesn't really hurt but there's no way he'll be able to hear me until the noise has died down a little. I fold my arms behind my back, Darkseid-style. Five, six-. There we go.

"A weak effort, Ahri'ahn. Considering your legend I expected better. Or were all of your battle magics cast against defenceless civilians, even in the days of antemergerentur Atlantis? I don't recall my Atlantean colleagues mentioning you ever fighting an equal, but I had assumed that was just due to the gulf of time. Is this really all you can do?"

And there we go. Grayven's best talent: pissing the enemy off with words. And an angry enemy becomes a stupid enemy...

Zatara grits his teeth.

"Grayven."

"Method to my madness, Zatara. All sorts of things happen when you don't play ball with a New God." I spread my arms out a little. "Want to try shooting me again? It'll be even less effective this time, then less still and still."

Don't play along with the Narrative, and the Narrative turns against you hard. Grayven's demonstrating that Arion's magic is having little effect, so it will get weaker. Such is the nature of New God combat...

I make a show of walking in a circle, but I'm watching out quite carefully. My goggles revealing nothing means that in a very real sense that he's not here. He's not dodging us by being invisible or intangible. Remote viewing is perfectly possible, but countering that would require highly sophisticated magic of a sort that I'll have to rely on Sunset or Circe for.

"Don't make me use school yard insults. We'll both feel the lesser for it."

Oh, please. Arion is arrogant enough that he wouldn't feel insulted, except by the breadth of your vocabulary...

There's a peculiar waft of sea spray from the roof of the entry gate guard station, and my goggles show me all sorts of interesting information about exactly how he's interacting with local space. I'll share it with Sunset when things are a little calmer. A moment passes and then a man in early modern and decidedly non-Atlantean dress precipitates out of his portal. And when I say non-Atlantean, I mean neither historical Atlantean nor modern Atlantean.

I'll admit, that style of garb (roughly 15th-16th century or thereabouts?) does convey a measure of class. It also says 'I'm too old-fashioned to update my look.' Presumably he's dressed as he did the last time he walked the world...

So I say the first thing that comes into my head.

"What's with the clothes?"

...Goddammit, Grayven, all that style, fizzled away for a half-hearted joke.

"Alien."

No trace of an Atlantean accent. He's been speaking English for a while, well enough to inject enough contempt into the word to make it clear how he feels about me. Alright then.

Or he's using a very good translation spell. Which would likely be entirely within his capabilities...

"By the authority invested in me by the American Federal Government, I am placing you under arrest."

He doesn't even bother to raise an eyebrow.

"Who is this 'American', and why should I care?" Yeah, I bet he doesn't consider any other nation but Atlantis (specifically Poseidonis, I assume) to count for the term...

"Do you honestly expect me to comply?"

"No. No. But they like it if I try. What was this all about, anyway?"

Makes it all legal like if Grayven kills him 'while resisting arrest'. He might have to explain himself later, but Arion won't be around to gainsay him...

"It's about you disgusting creatures using my work." He holds out his right hand and a book I.. don't recognise teleports into his hand. "My actual work. You.. create these abominations and celebrate it. You're like children proudly standing next to a shit-filled potty."

"Whaw, modern Atlanteans sure get you wrong. So… You want every un-man dead and their records expunged?"

Why stop there? Why not every non-pureblooded-Atlantean person on Earth? Or would he be satisfied if they 'accepted their proper place in the world' under his rule? Besides the Un-Men and such... They just skeeve him out, eh?

"And you and your lackeys dead, and that order cultist as well."

"Excuse us if we don't try-" The tron lines on my armour switch from yellow to orange as I focus my mind on my revulsion at his wantonly destructive attitude. "-to take you alive, then."

Easier said then done, especially if he, as Loki might say, has made himself quite hard to kill.

Knockout charges and the water foam rises again, Imane's scythe passing through the area he occupied-

"Agh!"

-a moment before with no resistance. I turn-. Shit!

Oh, that's not good. Not good at all, is it?

A mosquito-like insectoid has pounced on Zatara, proboscis punching through his magic shield and stabbing-

My construct ram hits it a moment later, ramming it through the exterior wall of the Uncorporation building and back inside.

Time to sever and regrow, then! Unless the Insectoids were designed to foil such logical tricks...

-him in the.. leg. He clutches the wound, staggering for a moment before collapsing to the ground.

Scan.

Let's hope Circe can unfuck this, then, or the League will be pissed.

Non-human matter detected.

Imane dashes up, looking at him with concern.

Probably knows he's too valuable to just kill outright. Since that's presumably the easiest way to prevent the changes.

"Master-?"

"Get him to Sunset. I'll clear up the rest of the insectoids."

Which is where we get to the end of yesterday's chapter, then...

"What about the wizard, Master?"

My face darkens.

"We'll have to go after him later."

Let's hope he doesn't get up to too much mischief in the meantime. I can only imagine how pissed he is at Atlantis.

Well, that went... Poorly. Arion the Elder fled unharmed. Zatara in danger of being converted by the Insectoid plague. God knows how many of said Insectoids still running loose. Not a good day for the Renegade. Let's hope Zatara can be saved.

Godspeech!

12th July 2012
13:05 GMT -8
FACE ME!
Iname just runs outside, but I'm limited to more mortal speeds. A hush tube takes me out into the car park in front of the main building, my visor over my eyes as I search for my target and my god powers fully activated, reaching out across my ally's home territory. Whoever this is will have to choose between fighting me directly or accepting being weakened by the Source.

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

DrThoth said:
Typo or deliberate obscure inside joke/reference?

Darko said:
'brings'
'closer'

Thank you, corrected.

Darko · Mar 28, 2021

Chojin Patriarch said:
Time to turn his natural charisma to the matter.

Time for a lesson on assholery 101.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Yes, such a wise choice to 'borrow' the name of a powerful wizard of unknown mortality status. Second only to using the name of Gods, and besmirching them in the process, in terms of foolishness.

All of which renegade has done.

Took the name of a god and insulted a god.

Which makes him wiser than Knightley.

And to be fair to Knightley, all info on Arion seemed to point to him being a reasonable and benevolent man, instead of a racist lunatic, so he probably thought that the guy wouldn't have a problem with him taking his name.

Or at least won't be bothered enough to kill him.

Chojin Patriarch said:
A simple wind-blade spell? Weak sauce, Arion. You've seen them shrug off lightning and prismatic bolts. Why would you expect anything else to work? Unless he plans to make a dramatic appearance

It's probably the whole mystic challenge thing.

If he wasn't being nerfed by renegade it would have probably been far more damaging.

Chojin Patriarch said:
And there we go. Grayven's best talent: pissing the enemy off with words

And it also works on allies and total strangers!

Chojin Patriarch said:
Besides the Un-Men and such... They just skeeve him out, eh?

They are kinda creepy.

Chojin Patriarch said:
Let's hope he doesn't get up to too much mischief in the meantime

Chojin why are still with Murphy!?!?

Chojin Patriarch said:
. I can only imagine how pissed he is at Atlantis.

Assuming he is pissed.

They may not be doing anything that he considers offensive.

Granted the fact that Venturia is helping renegade, he may be pissed at them.

Prince Charon · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
"A weak effort, Ahri'ahn. Considering your legend I expected better. Or were all of your battle magics cast against defenceless civilians, even in the days of antemergerentur Atlantis? I don't recall my Atlantean colleagues mentioning you ever fighting an equal, but I had assumed that was just due to the gulf of time. Is this really all you can do?"

'Before being plunged into the water.' Hadn't known that there was an actual word for that (well, mostly), but it makes sense that ReneGrayven would use it.

Mr Zoat said:
Sigh.

Added.

Given that being very pedantic in your specific manner is what got you in trouble on SV.com, I'm surprised the warning wasn't added to the FAQ sooner.

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

Prince Charon said:
Given that being very pedantic in your specific manner is what got you in trouble on SV.com, I'm surprised the warning wasn't added to the FAQ sooner.

Have I mentioned that my hair is hair and that my toenails are toenails? Did I need to?

Handlewithcare · Mar 28, 2021

Darko said:
It has been just one chapter, so if we are going to see his power then it'll probably happen in the following chapters.

And remember, renegade used that challenge power of his to weaken him.

If he'd been allowed to use his full power then I think he would have given a better fight.

I meant more his personality. Just another reactionary "I know better than you, that gives me the right to kill you" prejudiced idiot.

Prince Charon · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
Have I mentioned that my hair is hair and that my toenails are toenails? Did I need to?

I really hope not. It's just that people tend to view others through the lens of their own choices and experiences, especially when young or immature (e.g. Ron Weasley going 'Mental, that one is,' about Hermione Granger), and you are rather different from most of your readers, such that things that might seem obvious to you are really not to most of us. Speaking of, it may help for you to link to what you consider a good definition of Utilitarianism in the FAQ, or write a short one out, since a lot of people reading this know little or nothing about it.

Handlewithcare said:
I meant more his personality. Just another reactionary "I know better than you, that gives me the right to kill you" prejudiced idiot.

I think that's consistent (or something like it is) with some of his depictions in DC canon, and it certainly fits how Circe described him in her chapter, IIRC. He's probably more nuanced in general, but anyone who thinks that some sapient groups or individuals are 'non-people,' or are 'abominations,' is likely to be OK with killing them (and may not regard them as sapient, or not consider sapience to be a relevant factor in deciding 'is that a person?') - because someone may be nuanced and still be a horrible bigot.

Flightless Man · Mar 28, 2021

Prince Charon said:
I really hope not. It's just that people tend to view others through the lens of their own choices and experiences, especially when young or immature.

It doesn't help that text(when not explicitly stating them like in a story), really removes like what is it 90% of context from body language and vocal tone. British dry humour comes across differently in a comment than in conversation. I have recently been learning how many arguments I get into because of this and have been trying to clarify my own points better.

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

Prince Charon said:
I really hope not. It's just that people tend to view others through the lens of their own choices and experiences, especially when young or immature (e.g. Ron Weasley going 'Mental, that one is,' about Hermione Granger), and you are rather different from most of your readers, such that things that might seem obvious to you are really not to most of us.

'Mental' just means 'has thought processes outside of the norm'. That's almost purely a matter of opinion. If he'd said 'bipolar, that one is' when she clearly wasn't then he'd have been wrong.

It's like... Arguing that burnt umber isn't reddish-brown is pedantry as the distinction doesn't help a person form a more accurate mental picture. Arguing that it's not blue isn't pedantry because blue is clearly a distinct colour from brown.

Speaking of, it may help for you to link to what you consider a good definition of Utilitarianism in the FAQ, or write a short one out, since a lot of people reading this know little or nothing about it.

I have too much respect for my readers to feel that it's necessary to explain something that simple and easy to find out.

Senevri · Mar 28, 2021

Darko said:
No, but it doesn't exactly change my mind that Circe has some sociopathic tendencies, even if according to you she's not a full blown sociopath.

She seems more narcissistic to me, historically. I haven't seen that much of her DC representation.
There's a possibility that Hecate is her mother, so no wonder.

Also, lacking empathy isn't the same as having sociopathic tendencies, although I can see how you can get the ASPD vibe from nearly any comic book villain.

hance1986 · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
antemergerentur

What does this word mean? Looking on Google gave me a link back to this story section only. Is it another way of saying ancient or old?

Darko · Mar 28, 2021

hance1986 said:
What does this word mean? Looking on Google gave me a link back to this story section only. Is it another way of saying ancient or old?

Prince Charon said:
Before being plunged into the water.' Hadn't known that there was an actual word for that (well, mostly), but it makes sense that ReneGrayven would use it.

Doccer · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
antemergerentur

Definition?

Mr Zoat · Mar 28, 2021

Doccer said:
Definition?

Prince Charon said:
'Before being plunged into the water.' Hadn't known that there was an actual word for that (well, mostly), but it makes sense that ReneGrayven would use it.

Rafin · Mar 28, 2021

Mr Zoat said:
antemergerentur

Is this a purposely made up Latinogenic compound word or is there a typo in it? Google didn't know the word.

Mr Zoat said:
Have I mentioned that my hair is hair and that my toenails are toenails? Did I need to?

You don't. But you might need to share your definition of bald and whether one still qualities if they have a bald spot and whether hair on places other than the top of the head play any role for when one is or isn't allowed to be called bald

.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Getting out there.

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Connoisseur.

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A pitiful excuse for a man.

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