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With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

And you're not going experiment of compelled subjects to get it, are you?"

'to experiment on compelled'

"Not on Earth!"

"Georgia."

"Or any of your territory. Mother taught us not to destroy each other's laboratory equipment, and we've decided to extend that immunity to you."

There are plenty of Reach around.

test them to try and stop if happening to

'stop it'

"It's our asylum. For some reason, when I tried to think where to bring you, this is the first place I thought of."

Hah!

"He didn't mean 'because it brought us closer to his test subjects'. He was implying that he believes that we should be inmates."

And to be fair, he's right.

If we were, would we still have access to the other inmates?"

Of course that's all he's thinking about.

more dangerous then they are."

Maybe 'than they'


'They both'

"Give that they're disarmed and bound

'Given that'

the Sheeda to kill them rather than trying to capture them

And then kill them and use their bodies for horrible purposes.

Or worse, use them while they're still alive.

I thought that I squared that circle by getting hold of a L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet. Recruit a few hundred humans, let them gain seniority, and let them handle it. But basically everyone who applied was a government agent.

So has he recruited some of them, or did he send them away due to their governmental ties?

Certainly. We've even got an alien mad scientist here for you to test yourselves again."

"Heh." Thaddeus shakes his head. "As if it would be a test."

Just wait Junior, this one may surpass you in both smarts and crazy.
 
Thaddeus and Georgia are fun, but you also constantly get the feeling of two subcritical uranium masses wizzing around the room at speed.

I can see both sides of the debate: it makes absolute sense that people want to feel more secure after an event like this. I suppose bunker building and selling has picked up sharply too?

But the europeaen argument that hand guns were useless anyway makes perfect sense too.

Might I suggest a compromise off Paul offering everyone shield technology instead of weapons?

From citiy sized ones all the way down to personal ones?

That should help both psychologically and practically the next time someone attacks.

Pity Zoat didn't include the offensive powers of Rocket's inertia belt, because then he could provide defense, offense, and transportation.

For those who didn't read Icon and Rocket- the same way the inertia belt can absorb blows from Superman level opponents and absorb it to allow one to fly, but well, what do you think happens if you channel that kinetic energy into a punch or into an object you are holding in your hand?

The term "OUCH!" springs to mind....
 
24th August 2012
13:48 GMT


and reappear in the asylum. I let go of the smoking frames and turn to look at them both.

"You alright?"

Let's hope so. I think Doctor Sivana Senior would have words for you if you somehow fried his science-babies' brains with Orange Light overload. A lot of words, filled with Red Light... :p Or maybe just a few very loud words courtesy of his best guns. Stuff like "Freem!" and "Bzkow!"

"Huh." / "Huh."

Neither Sivana Spawn are.. focusing on their environment, but neither are showing the sort of orange mess that I'd expect from someone who had uncontrolled exposure to the Honden.
So, hopefully not overloaded. Just... coming to terms with a brief exposure to the universe's desires.

"Georgia? Thaddeus? What did you see?"

"The system is supposed to keep us in an isolated spiritual loop; preventing external contamination." Georgia blinks spasmodically behind her glasses. "But it didn't prevent you from changing the medium."
Heh. So, unpleasantly like being drunk, as experienced by the water?

"So you saw yourself as a network of you own desires? That could be very useful for training purposes. Can you make more?"

"Ah, yeah, but, no." Thaddeus shakes his head as he starts to come out of whatever it was that he experienced. "They would need to come from somewhere with a high level of thaumic activity. Otherwise they would just…" He strokes his chin. "Actually, I'm not sure what would happen to them. I think that they would just be erased, but it's possible that they would become a permanent part of someone else's desire network."
...Yeah, okay, that's not a good thing. Guess OL will have to looks for more old-fashioned ways to help people along to Enlightenment.

"Or something else entirely. We just don't have enough experimental data to know."

"And you're not going experiment of compelled subjects to get it, are you?"
I love that that's an actual concern with these two.

"Not on Earth!"

"Georgia."
Well, of course not. Drawing all your samples from one small pool? That'd skew your results too much.

"Or any of your territory. Mother taught us not to destroy each other's laboratory equipment, and we've decided to extend that immunity to you."

"That's very considerate of you." Thaddeus takes a glass rod out of his lab coat and pokes part of his frame, which falls off and shatters on the ground. "Was that expected?"
Well, I'm glad they're being considerate. Less explosions that way. ;) Marginally.

"It's within the predicted range." They unstrap themselves and drop out of their frames. "But we would not be here if we did not think that we would learn something."

They both draw devices that look like a cross between a phaser and a hairdryer, waving the nozzles around while looking carefully at the readout.
Because of course they have tricorder equivalents. Hopefully they're satisfied with the results.

"The stock room!" / "Secure storage?"

Thaddeus frowns at Georgia's uncertainty.
...Of all the places on Maltus you could have arrived, you landed in a broom closet?

"What? It's obvious this is where they keep the test subjects."

"Does that sound like something a superhero would do?"
Well, technically, OL's not a superhero. Not quite the total paragon of justice and all that. Too much genocide, for a start...

"A utilitarian superhero. It makes sense. If they're crazy anyway, test them to try and stop if happening to the others!"

"Hm."

"Hm."
Oh god, they're heterodyning. Flee! ...Or gather their tools, depending on your minion-ness...

They both turn and look at me.

"Well?" / "Well?"
Ah, just asking for confirmation of their theory... What sort of scientists are they if they can't work it out for themselves?

"It's our asylum. For some reason, when I tried to think where to bring you, this is the first place I thought of."

"See?" Thaddeus waves his probe at his sister. "Test subjects."
Don't be so hasty, young Sivana...

"He didn't mean 'because it brought us closer to his test subjects'. He was implying that he believes that we should be inmates."

Thaddeus frowns.
...See? Can't always jump to conclusions.

"If we were, would we still have access to the other inmates?"

"No. The cells are individual. The inmates are dangerous to themselves and each other, and the two of you are far more dangerous then they are."
...True enough, given the inmates won't have rings. If they managed to acquire one, then shit would hit the fan.

The both preen.

"Give that they're disarmed and bound. Ah, it probably won't matter, but you're both carrying some sort of defensive equipment, right?"
...Well, that's a pin to the inflated ego.

Thaddeus frowns, his face a picture of frustrated incomprehension. Georgia settles for rolling her eyes.

"Yes, we're 'carrying'. We even have concealed carry permits."
Real ones? From which country or state? Or do they literally have a little rolodex-style collection from every location they could ever need to visit on Earth?

"You're armed legally?"

"No, of course not. Unless we were in Texas; did you know that they removed all weapon ownership restrictions during the Sheeda invasion? You can buy a Davy Crockett there now. Own one, anyway. I don't think anyone's actually selling."
That's probably a good thing. And entirely in character for the Lone Star State.

"I did hear about that."

Private weapon ownership has become a lot more common since their invasion. Europe's resisting, naturally. Politicians there point out that conventional firearms didn't do much to Sheeda Lowborn due to them being invisible most of the time, and never did anything to their Highborn. As such, arming the civilian population wouldn't have improved their ability to fight and might have either caused the Sheeda to kill them rather than trying to capture them, or have made things harder for the police and military. And… Yes, they do have a point. I'm not hypocritical enough to say that private citizens shouldn't be armed, but the fact that there isn't any sort of training requirement in the US still makes me uncomfortable.
I suspect armed robberies would get a little tenser. As for the training thing, let's steer clear of 'Rule 8'-adjacent discussion on that front. Talking about Gun Laws always seem to upset someone...

In the less… 'Staid' parts of the world, the governments had no chance against the overwhelming need of their citizens to protect themselves. Russia tried training people as army auxiliaries but there were just too many. They ended up with a network of state-sponsored gun clubs. China put the political commissars in each region in charge of organising People's Militia training, and it's actually quite a popular development with older communist party members. In other places people have been arming themselves as best they can, often in defiance of local law.
Given the communist states got their starts in armed revolutions, I'm not surprised... I have the feeling shooting incidents have gone up worldwide, though...

I could mass produce enough high-end infantry weapons to allow people to fight off most aliens in Sector 2814. But the problem is that weapons like that would also let them fight other humans. I don't know if I'm worrying needlessly; America and Russia hated each other for decades without nuking each other. Would a few million cold guns make Earth a more dangerous place to live when we've had the ability to scour it of live since the sixties and not used it? Or… Would the problem come from the fact that the people carrying them wouldn't be citizens of the two most powerful countries on Earth but rather decidedly less powerful places? A few countries with a lot to lose, versus two hundred countries without much to lose?
...I foresee Batman having complaints about any of those ideas... Maybe distribute simple, easy-to-maintain personal defensive devices, as Handlewithcare suggested. Like the Terminian Kinetic Belts (adjusted to a purely defensive mode without flight or offensive systems.) As a bonus, it'd likely reduce injuries in violent crimes and accidents.

I thought that I squared that circle by getting hold of a L.E.G.I.O.N. fleet. Recruit a few hundred humans, let them gain seniority, and let them handle it. But basically everyone who applied was a government agent.
Heh, same problem the Renegade's Light faced crewing Lex's spacefleet. Guess the lure of space superiority is too great for any national agency...

"But since you're interested, you can review our existing research and -if you want- speak to the patients."

"Are we allowed-" Georgia wiggles her sensor at me. "-to take our own readings?"

"With the permission of their physician."
After all, you don't know how your scanning gear might interact with their physiology or mental state...

Seventeen Lanterns in here at the moment. Only two who went full-Larfleeze, but we're dubious about the others ever returning to active duty. Just getting them to the point where they don't need to be contained any more would be a good start.
Out of what, several thousand? Not a terrible failure rate. Though some would insist on a zero rate. They would be dreaming.

"And then can we see the weapons?" Thaddeus looks hopeful. "You know that's what we're best at, right?"

"Certainly. We've even got an alien mad scientist here for you to test yourselves again."

"Heh." Thaddeus shakes his head. "As if it would be a test."
One meeting with Kalmin later: "...I hate to say it, but I think we might be out of our league..."

Oh, this is going to be entertaining to watch... From a safe distance. Glad we're all here in another universe, well outside the splash zone. I have the feeling those in much closer proximity will be wary of more 'Crazy Terrans.' Well, besides the folks who are already a little crazy...
 
True enough, given the inmates won't have rings. If they managed to acquire one, then shit would hit the fan.

If the inmates are naturally more powerful than humans, then they're still dangerous.

One meeting with Kalmin later: "...I hate to say it, but I think we might be out of our league..."

I'm now picturing them admiring Kalmin.

Kalmin-senpai anyone?

...

I'm sorry for putting that image in your head.

I have the feeling those in much closer proximity will be wary of more 'Crazy Terrans.' Well, besides the folks who are already a little crazy

I'm thinking Kalmin may admire their potential.
 
Who's currently the best Green Lantern in terms of combat ability? Paragon felt that Illustres Chaselon might be the one GL he couldn't beat in a fight, but that was a while ago and we haven't really seen the latter in action (though having achieved green enlightenment without apparent contact with an Emotional Entity is an impressive thing in itself, yes). Guy with Ion backup also comes to mind as a candidate for the title, but I don't think he's at the level of Paragon in terms of compatibility and effectiveness as a Host.
 
Kalmin is still interested in destroying the entire universe. Putting him in touch with the Sivanas doesn't seem smart. Hinon is going to have words...
Kalmin is a religious fundamentalist, it's highly unlikely that he'll make the materialist Sivanas any worse, and while it might improve Kalmin's tradecraft a bit that's only a positive for the duration of the war.

After the war? Well, that's Future Paul's problem. Present Paul has more pressing concerns.
 
Seventeen Lanterns in here at the moment. Only two who went full-Larfleeze, but we're dubious about the others ever returning to active duty. Just getting them to the point where they don't need to be contained any more would be a good start.
What happens if you just take away the rings of those that didn't go full Larfleeze? Shouldn't they be able to live normal lives, even if they never get to be Lanterns again?

Also, why can't the Illustress or some other OL rewire their desire structures either based on previous readings or just into something that's more manageable and every day life compatible?
It's not like it is immoral mind control or personhood de- and reconstruction if the ring already fucked that up before any deliberate intervention.
 
What happens if you just take away the rings of those that didn't go full Larfleeze? Shouldn't they be able to live normal lives, even if they never get to be Lanterns again?

Larfleeze is the most extreme case, but that doesn't mean that others weren't damaged in varying levels.

Releasing them now would be dangerous to both them and the ones around them.

The Controllers want to see what the Orange corruption will do so they can figure out how to stop or treat it.

Also, why can't the Illustress or some other OL rewire their desire structures either based on previous readings or just into something that's more manageable and every day life compatible?
It's not like it is immoral mind control or personhood de- and reconstruction if the ring already fucked that up before any deliberate intervention.

It may not be so simple.

Rewiring their desires after the Orange Light corrupted them could prove to be dangerous and it may be highly difficult to do it.

Paul may be able to do it, but he's only one guy and the Controllers probably don't want to depend on him in case he dies.
 
Have any more Coluans joined L.E.G.I.O.N or its affiliates? I don't know if they all do that emotional suppression thing but I imagine at least a few are grateful for being rescued and would like to do something in return.

Does Renegade have any plans for the trapped Coluans in his timeline?
 
Onslaught (part 6)
24th August 2012
14:03 GMT


"Huh."

Thaddeus uses a set of plasma construct tweezers to delicately pry apart an object on one of Kalmin's 'completed project' display racks. I thought about asking Kalmin if he minded us taking a look, but last time I asked he said that if I could both understand what I was looking at and survive his intruder countermeasures, then I'd earned the right.

"Oh. I'm disappointed. I thought you said this guy was building your whole…" He moves a few more parts, then waves his sensor at the artefact. "Fleet."

"No, we're not stupid enough to let a Weaponer just build whatever he likes. He was part of the design team, but we checked everything thoroughly before building anything. And if there's something broken or incomplete in here, then I'd assume that he's storing it here until the mood strikes him to work on it some more." I frown. "Are you at all familiar with Qwardian technology?"

"I wouldn't say familiar. Father always said that copying other people's work was lazy, so we never really prioritised that sort of theft."

"Alright, but why didn't you pick something up while he was in the far future?"

"Because he's right. That would be lazy."

"But you're looking at it now."

"Yes?"

"Isn't that just as lazy?"

"Of course not. Georgia and I had to create a novel form of faster than light travel to come and look at this. Breaking into the sorts of places that the Air Force stores recovered alien technology is far more simple."



"Thaddeus, given that you don't want to break in there and that you're nominally obeying the law now that you've been pardoned, would-?"

"Actually, only Father got pardoned. I'm still wanted in seventeen countries."

"Oh. Alright then. In the interest of getting a pardon, would you be willing-?"

"Who says I'm interested in getting a pardon?" He prods again. "Oh, heh, I see."

"Oh. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to insult your villainous pride. I just assumed that since you were still working with your father you were planning on following the same trajectory. Are there crimes you feel that you want to perform?"

"No, I'm just keeping my options open. I don't like being told what to do."

"I'm not sure that I follow."

"Laws. I've never followed them and I don't think I could learn to do so now."

"You… Are aware that most people don't consider whether or not they're breaking the law on a moment by moment basis, aren't you?"

He stops, then turns to look at me.

"How does it work, then?"

"Well, most people -not you, obviously, but most people- have certain intuitions about the way people should behave in society. Not intentionally causing harm to others, not taking things that don't belong to them, trying to deal with disagreements calmly and rationally… Things like that. And they assume that the law provides an expensive brute force way to resolve disagreements that can't be resolved by the parties involved. Mostly, that's good enough, though in the case of peculiar laws it doesn't always work." I frown. "Didn't you go to a public school?"

"Yes, Mother insisted, and Father said that even a really good private school wouldn't be able to challenge us."

"But surely you-."

"Intruders!"

I turn around as The Test Subject Formerly Known As Daciya walks in, cybernetic arm glowing with golden light. I take a half-step back, but she's focusing her attention on Thaddeus.

Behind her, Nauca awkwardly raises his right hand in greeting. I nod back.

"Get your filthy hands off my-"

"It doesn't even-"

"-work, you defective-"

"-work right, see-" He uses his construct to pick the device up and turn it around. "-you got this-"

"-imbecile!"

"-turned-." Thaddeus blinks three times rapidly behind his glasses. "Excuse me?"

"Die!"

"Ah?"

Her mechanical hand twitches and a bolt of golden energy leaps at Thaddeus! I generate a construct shield-.

The bolt stops in mid-air about two thirds of the way to its target. Then a… The rectangle of space containing it changes to… Two dimensions, and rotates through 180 degrees before snapping back into three-.

The bolt strikes its mistress in the chest, sending her flying backwards with shredded robes and cracked armour. She strikes the side wall with a flare from her kinetic shield and attaches herself to it like a monkey, eyes flickering as she takes the time to scan Thaddeus Sivana Junior properly.

Who's looking at me in a decidedly disgruntled manner.

"I told you I had defensive equipment."

"I'm sorry, but I haven't seen you in the field before. I wasn't sure what you thought counted."

"Warn me if I run into someone more dangerous than Captain Marvel."

I look over to where Daciya's arm is reconfiguring itself.

"Captain Marvel doesn't try and kill you."

"Captain Marvel fights us in our laboratories. Solomon might have been wise, but he didn't have a PhD. That's how Father ended up in the future, remember."

"Who are you?"

Thaddeus pulls himself up slightly, plasma scalpel dissipating as he fiddles with his personal computer.

"I am Doctor Thaddeus Sivana, the most intelligent man on this planet."

Not true, assuming that the male Controllers are still male enough to count as male. But Dox is in orbit, and… Thaddeus probably has a greater range than Kalmin.

"And your machine doesn't work. Why did you even put it here?"

"So that in a few years I could look back at it and laugh."

Thaddeus smiles.

"Yes, I used to do that too, when I was six. Years. Old."

This time she fires two bolts. Thaddeus gets enough time to shake his head, space fracturing around them-. They explode, the energy consuming-.

Space fractures around Thaddeus, twisting around and depositing him across the room and out of the blast radius, a faintly crimson shield dealing with the remaining radiation.

He smiles.

"Interesting. Here's my retort."
 
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Have any more Coluans joined L.E.G.I.O.N or its affiliates? I don't know if they all do that emotional suppression thing but I imagine at least a few are grateful for being rescued and would like to do something in return.

Does Renegade have any plans for the trapped Coluans in his timeline?
No and no.
 
"Who are you?"

Thaddeus pulls himself up slightly, plasma scalpel dissipating as he fiddles with his personal computer.

"I am Doctor Thaddeus Sivana, the most intelligent man on this planet."

Not true, assuming that the male Controllers are still male enough to count as male. But Dox is in orbit, and… Thaddeus probably has a greater range than Kalmin.

"And your machine doesn't work. Why did you even put it here?"

"So that in a few years I could look back at it and laugh."

Thaddeus smiles.

"Yes, I used to do that too, when I was six. Years. Old."

This time she fires two bolts. Thaddeus gets enough time to shake his head, space fracturing around them-. They explode, the energy consuming-.

Space fractures around Thaddeus, twisting around and depositing him across the room and out of the blast radius, a faintly crimson shield dealing with the remaining radiation.

He smiles.

"Interesting. Here's my retort."
Alright! Mad scientist fight! Normally I would be more concerned, but since this is Maltus, the Maltusians could probably just fix everything they break after they're done.

Who the fuck are those two?

I have no memory of these people.
They are the q'ardajin that Paul and Kalmin brought back from Qward. They're there, as otherwise they would be used as test subjects by their society's mad scientists.
 
Thaddeus Jr it was mentioned didn't pursue girls or even mind control a cheerleader, it was said. It feels like this interaction is setting it up for him to hit it off with Daciya. Sivana Jr seems to come off with some Weaponer-like qualities in that Thaddeus also feels he is not accountable to most of creation. Junior and the female Weaponer are feeling out each other's mad science countermeasures but Paul is probably going to stop things before they destroy the lab.
 
he said that if I could both understand what I was looking at and survive his intruder countermeasures, then I'd earned the right.

So like Hades in the Dresden Files in letting people have the things in his vault if they're able to get into it.

still working with your father you were planning

maybe 'that you were planning'

"You… Are aware that most people don't consider whether or not they're breaking the law on a moment by moment basis, aren't you?"

And are you aware that like half the Sivanas are kinda cracked in the head?

Known As Daciya walks it,

'walks in'

"-imbecile!"

"-turned." Thaddeus blinks three times rapidly behind his glasses. "Excuse me?"

She shoulodn't have said that.

"I am Doctor Thaddeus Sivana, the most intelligent man on this planet."

No, not really.

Not true, assuming that the male Controllers are still male enough to count as male.

I guess when you live in an extremely advanced society and are a couple of billions years old, gender becomes somewhat irrelevant.

Thaddeus probably has a greater range than Kalmin.

Kalmin being too focused on things that go boom.

He smiles.

"Interesting. Here's my retort."

Ahh, so I'm guessing Thad here just met his soulmate.

It's like a Cardassian courtship ritual, it starts with arguments and then they bang.

...

Actually, that's probably how Qwardians actually do it.
 

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