With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Darko · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
His names was

'His name was'

Mr Zoat said:
D.A. didn't have squad on Charlie

'have squat'

Mr Zoat said:
So I moves some

'So I move some'

Mr Zoat said:
sounds of it someone put a demon in there without

'of it, someone'

Mr Zoat said:
"A building full of Amazons. If I were forty years younger, that'd be quite a prospect

Settle down you hornd...ehh, horncat.

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2022

Ngamer11 said:
I thought Wildcat didn't know about that? Or did he suspect and never say anything? Or perhaps he just put the pieces together after Paul mentioned it?

He knew that Rag Doll died there. He didn't know the details.

Also, I noticed you spelled the villain's name wrong. I found one other place where you misspelled it.

Those should say 'Rag Doll'.

Thank you, corrected.

Darko said:
'His name was'
'have squat'
'So I move some'

Thank you, corrected.

'of it, someone'

No, I think that's correct.

hance1986 · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"The sort of person who has evil spirits talking in her head, teleports into the Themysciran embassy and takes a shot at Diana and me isn't the sort who's going to be interesting in hearing a nuanced explanation on the practical realities of law enforcement. I mean, you could try telling her…"

' Diana and I '

' interested '

Ngamer11 · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Thank you, corrected.

The second example wasn't edited. Or is it only on the story only version?

Mr Zoat said:
"Demons as a whole, yes. But we haven't actually seen any demons yet. Just people using magic. There are dozens of augmentation drugs that dwarf could have taken to murder that man. Heck, Ragdoll could have done it with a knife. It's not really special."

Handlewithcare · Feb 21, 2022

That sentence about Durham is a bit hard to parse.

Durham killed his sister in law and her kid and then Durham's brother got blamed for it, yeah?

Also surprised that comment about "if I were 40 years younger" didn't cause Paul to offer rejuvenation

Darko · Feb 21, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
Durham killed his sister in law and her kid and then Durham's brother got blamed for it, yeah?

Charlie Durham's brother killed Charlie's fiance, so Charlie killed him and his family.

There wasn't any evidence to show that he killed his brother or his family, so Ted framed Charlie for the murder of his fiance.

DrThoth · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Look, fashions change. Just be happy that the gym's still going, and… Maybe when fashion changes again, it'll go back to incorporating more traditional boxing."

"Sure, but I'm not gunna see that, am I?"

"Should I just nod and smile, or do you actually want to talk about how to bind your soul to the gym?"

Mr Zoat said:
"A building full of Amazons. If I were forty years younger, that'd be quite a prospect."

Neither Paragon nor Alan offered to rejuvenate Ted? Or Ted didn't consider asking Alan? I've talked about this before, I believe, both for Ted and the Garricks. I guess they're in the 'my time/life has passed and I have to accept that' camp? Though maybe Ted will reconsider if he thinks there's a chance of him going to Hell for this.

Fellow · Feb 21, 2022

I know it's not what he sounds like, but everytime I read any of Mr. Zatara's lines, I always imagine him sounding like Dr. Orpheus from Venture Bros.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
20th October 2012
15:18 GMT -5

"Huh. Perversely, I don't need any details, but I do need to know if you know of anyone else who might have made similar decisions to you."

"You ain't gunna ask me about it?"

Thanks to his meta-knowledge, he doesn't have to. Of course, telling anyone else, he'd probably have to make up something about seeing it via empathic vision or Ring-based research. But one of these days, he's going to have to come clean about it...

"The sort of person who has evil spirits talking in her head, teleports into the Themysciran embassy and takes a shot at Diana and me isn't the sort who's going to be interesting in hearing a nuanced explanation on the practical realities of law enforcement. I mean, you could try telling her…"

I tilt my head back, sighing.

"Yeah, we should probably do that. If only to find out what the things pulling her strings are."

Given that in the comics, him telling her that made her shoot herself (didn't actually stop her, but) that would at least get her looking at what's giving her her target list.

Ted nods. "Nineteen seventy seven. His names was Charlie Durham, and he killed his brother, his brother's wife and their kid. He got the chair for killing his own fiancée, and his brother was the one who killed her. The kid was only eight. D.A. didn't have squad on Charlie. He was gonna go free for killin' a whole family. So I moves some stuff around, made it look like he killed…"

He bows his head slightly, letting out a miserable chuckle.

Hell of a mess. No-one was getting out of that in one piece, ultimately.

"I can't even remember her name now."

Ring?

"Wendy Cunningham."

Don't be annoyed at him, folks. It was nearly forty years ago, and he's only human.

"Yeah." He nods. "Yeah, that was it. Only thing I could do to get Charlie off the streets. I wasn't even sure the jury would convict him, but… Yeah, technically, I sent him to the chair for a crime he didn't commit. I guess that's enough."

"If it's Mister Durham's spirit in those guns, certainly. If there's a demon or other spiteful spirit in there, yes again. I'm going to guess that whoever made them wasn't exactly an Archmage."

The comics ultimately never explored that, did they? What drove the Guns' power?

"Why?"

"Binding a spirit to a thing is relatively easy, but a lot of the decision making gets left in its hands. But from the sounds of it someone put a demon in there without changing its nature. Put a demon in charge of administering justice and how do you think it's going to act?"

To make it easier, imagine the biggest, most self-absorbed asshole misanthrope you can think of. Then multiply that by itself.

"It'll send anyone it can to hell."

"And it'll prioritise killing people whose actions prevent people going to hell or who might redeem themselves, regardless of whether or not there are objectively more 'just' targets."

And all those damnations would likely be added to its rap sheet, when it finally gets free and returns to Hell itself. With a big promotion waiting for it.

"But why's it going after Al?"

"You remember in nineteen seventy four? Ragdoll-."

"Oh."

Be glad Ted Knight and Jay Garrick aren't here. The Guns' host would be spinning like a memeing CoD sniper trying to shoot all of them at once... Which would not be as funny as you think it is, given a little thing called overpenetration.

"I wasn't sure if it was him, Mister Garrick or Doctor Knight. Guess… Unless there's someone else he escorted from this vale of tears, now we know."

"Or the Nazis."

True. Wartime may have different rules, but given the Guns' habit of playing fast and loose with the concept of 'innocence' thus far...

"Hm?"

"We dunno what the guns think makes someone guilty, right? So what if some Nazi private put up his hands to surrender, but Al didn't see it in time? Or… Hell, if he wasn't somewhere where he could take someone prisoner?"

Or if it was completely accidental, like deflecting a flying artillery shell back towards the battery that fired it? No knowing where it might blow up, after all. Crazy shit happens on the battlefield.

I nod.

"Could be. It's a problem, and it's why 'magical justice auras' or whatever are a terrible idea. Sometimes you need to break the rules and have actual people judge whether you were right or not."

Yep. Sometimes said auras or true-sight spells or the like, work off a very different code of justice.

"Blue Lantern to Orange Lantern."

I hold out my left hand as Alan's face appears, breathing a sigh of relief. "Orange Lantern here. Go ahead."

That'll be a weight off his chest.

"Zatara chased her off. We're pulling bullets out of the walls now, trying to get a read off them."

"Is it safe for me to bring Mister Grant back?"

Would be a pain if you brought him back, only for her to start trying to kill him again.

"To the embassy? Sure. Anywhere else, it's too early to say. We've got to find her before she goes after anyone else."

"Okay, we'll head back. I assume that Batman's running the investigation?"

"Yeah."

Naturally. DC's Greatest Detective, after all. Though outside of Barry, he's probably the only properly-trained Forensics expert on the team... I doubt J'onn dipped that far into the nitty-gritty of his police detective identity.

"He's probably already thought of it, but I suggest asking him if other superheroes have been targeted recently. If the bullets end up looking mundane it might not have been caught."

"Will do."

Too late for any poor victims she's already taken down, but they can be avenged. How poetic (or ironic, to taste.)

"See you shortly." I end the call and lower my left hand. "I'll be dropping you off. I suggest staying at the embassy until we get this sorted."

"A building full of Amazons. If I were forty years younger, that'd be quite a prospect."

At this age, you'd probably break a hip. So save the Tomcat game for later.

Plot course.

"Two, one, and-"

The universe skips.

Quite the experience Ted's having, I bet. I doubt he's ever had the 'OL's Wild Ride' trip before today.

"-we're here."

Diana's outside, while Ms. Candy is liaising with the police. They can't enter an embassy uninvited, but this is an attack by a US citizen and the League is going to want police cooperation. Alan-

Ah, the awkwardness of international affairs.

"You in one piece, Ted?"

-is floating just outside of the window I escaped through. Ted ambles over to him, taking in the damage as he goes.

Just two old buddies, shooting the shit.

"As much as I was. You?"

"Can't complain. Borrowed a trick from Paul's book and stuck paving stones in front of the bullets to go with my constructs."

Ah, the old dog, still able to learn new tricks even now.

I

step out and

return next to Mr. Zatara, pinging my recording of my conversation with Mr. Leong to Batman. Mr. Zatara is holding a bullet in his right hand, golden circles dancing around it.

A few interesting data points for the Bat. I expect he'll have a full work-up on Jill Carlyle inside the next five minutes. Which will probably draw attention to the cause of her association with the Guns.

I want to ask if he knows what it is, but I wait for him to finish. After a few moments the lights go out, and he slips the bullet into a small plastic bag.

"Is it a demon? I've wanted to take a swing at Arkannone ever since I heard it existed."

Arkannone, for the record. From the Hitman series. And that's a fairly logical association to make on OL's part.

"I do not believe so. This feels more like a spirit, or spirits, bound to the gun and granting the projectiles and the user supernatural powers. But there's something… Else. Did you hear the woman speak at all?"

"No."

Which is odd, she does speak in the comic. Albeit briefly, in between trying to kill Wildcat.

"That is unusual. Such spirits are driven to right the world in accordance with their nature. When they take hosts, they will make them shout their target's crimes to the world. But she did not speak."

"The gun's previous owner certainly remained able to talk."

Which is very unusual. Maybe she's shut down in some kind of shock, and the Guns are piloting her body...

He turns to me, Diana landing next to us.

"Perhaps you should tell me what you mean."

Exposition time! Now, will OL break out the whiteboards for illustrations?

Now, to see how different the Crimson Avenger's canon was on Earth-16. I doubt there'll be any major deviations from 'Wronged man gets cursed Guns, rights 'wrongs' until something bad happens, then backpedals into a less lethal route, probably donning a spandex costume along the way...' Still, Mr Zoat can always surprise us somehow.

Vaermina · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"I do not believe so. This feels more like a spirit, or spirits, bound to the gun and granting the projectiles and the user supernatural powers. But there's something… Else. Did you hear the woman speak at all?

It's a miracle!

Paragon was actually wrong about something!

Travisplo · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Yeah."

Is this 'Yeah' meant to be orange, since it seems to be ring-comms?

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2022

Handlewithcare said:
That sentence about Durham is a bit hard to parse.

Durham killed his sister in law and her kid and then Durham's brother got blamed for it, yeah?

No. Durham killed his brother, sister-in-law and nephew. Durham's brother killed Durham's girlfriend. Durham was executed for the murder his brother comitted.

Travisplo said:
Is this 'Yeah' meant to be orange, since it seems to be ring-comms?

Thank you, corrected.

Prince Charon · Feb 21, 2022

Chojin Patriarch said:
Now, to see how different the Crimson Avenger's canon was on Earth-16. I doubt there'll be any major deviations from 'Wronged man gets cursed Guns, rights 'wrongs' until something bad happens, then backpedals into a less lethal route, probably donning a spandex costume along the way...' Still, Mr Zoat can always surprise us somehow.

One think that might turn out to be different is when his adventures started, because Wildcat commented that Victor Leong was about his age, and also said that the Crimson Avenger was from his father's generation. Maybe Lee Travis fought in WWI instead of the Spanish Civil War? The early Crimson Avenger stories were very 'Pulp Hero'-flavored, IIRC.

FourthPear · Feb 21, 2022

Darko said:
Charlie Durham's brother killed Charlie's fiance, so Charlie killed him and his family.

There wasn't any evidence to show that he killed his brother or his family, so Ted framed Charlie for the murder of his fiance.

Then who got the chair?

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2022

FourthPear said:
Then who got the chair?

Charlie Durham, given that all of the others mentioned were killed.

Darko · Feb 21, 2022

FourthPear said:
Then who got the chair?

Charlie Durham.

FourthPear · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Charlie Durham, given that all of the others mentioned were killed.

Then why did he need to be framed for some random lady's death?

Flightless Man · Feb 21, 2022

FourthPear said:
Then why did he need to be framed for some random lady's death?

Their was no evidence for the crimes he did commit, so he had to be framed for a different murder to be convicted.

FourthPear · Feb 21, 2022

Flightless Man said:
Their was no evidence for the crimes he did commit, so he had to be framed for a different murder to be convicted.

Then why was the 'he got the chair' part written as if it happened before the framing, as if it was about a completely different set of people?

CTrees · Feb 21, 2022

FourthPear said:
Then who got the chair?

No, Who's on first. What got the chair.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

Doccer · Feb 21, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
Arkannone

Who?

Mr Zoat said:
Unless there's someone else he escorted from this vale of tears, now we know

???

Darko · Feb 21, 2022

Doccer said:
???

It's probably a reference from something Zoat once saw or read.

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2022

Doccer said:
Who?

Arkannone.

???

Vale of tears.

Coda · Feb 21, 2022

hance1986 said:
' Diana and I '

Nope, it was correct in the first place. When you're trying to figure out what pronoun to use when you have a conjunction, leave out everything but the pronoun -- in this case, "takes a shot at ... me" is correct while "takes a shot at ... I" is not, therefore it should be "Diana and me" here.

Vaermina · Feb 21, 2022

Flightless Man said:
Their was no evidence for the crimes he did commit, so he had to be framed for a different murder to be convicted.

I would point out that does mean he helped at least one murderer escape justice.

The murderer who actually killed that woman.

Ngamer11 · Feb 21, 2022

Vaermina said:
I would point out that does mean he helped at least one murderer escape justice.

The murderer who actually killed that woman.

That guy was already dead at the hands of the framed guy.

Nervaqus987 · Feb 21, 2022

Vaermina said:
I would point out that does mean he helped at least one murderer escape justice.

The murderer who actually killed that woman.

Can't escape justice if you're dead.

Charlie Durham already killed his brother and his whole family.

Ngamer11 · Feb 22, 2022

Mr Zoat said:
"Demons as a whole, yes. But we haven't actually seen any demons yet. Just people using magic. There are dozens of augmentation drugs that dwarf could have taken to murder that man. Heck, Ragdoll could have done it with a knife. It's not really special."

Mr Zoat, you missed this correction. This should say 'Rag Doll'.

Michael Vonica · Feb 22, 2022

My first introduction to Rag Doll was from the Less Than Zero fanfiction, where he appeared as a side character in a Secret Six sort of story. He seemed pretty decent. Very dedicated to his art. I'm almost sure that he's also a homicidal maniac, but until I'm confronted with that, I can still go on appreciating him.

Stsword · Feb 22, 2022

Michael Vonica said:
My first introduction to Rag Doll was from the Less Than Zero fanfiction, where he appeared as a side character in a Secret Six sort of story. He seemed pretty decent. Very dedicated to his art. I'm almost sure that he's also a homicidal maniac, but until I'm confronted with that, I can still go on appreciating him.

That was probably his son, Peter Merkel Jr, aka the second Rag Doll.

Nuts but loyal to his team.

Unless he feels like your are taking his niche as team weirdo, in which case he'll try to murder you, as he attempted with Dr Psycho, and according to the wiki, Harley.

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

A pitiful excuse for a man.

Experienced.

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

I trust you know where the happy button is?

Know what you're doing yet?

Veteran Lurker

Well worn.

Dapper Necromonsieur, a fine undead gentleman

Dedicated ragequitter

Just zis guy, you know?

Frequent Flier.

Dedicated ragequitter

Connoisseur.

Frequent Flier.

Versed in the lewd.

Frequent Flier.

Chasing the ring

Versed in the lewd.

Connoisseur.

Dedicated ragequitter

Versed in the lewd.

Well worn.

Experienced.

Well worn.

Experienced.

Not too sore, are you?

Versed in the lewd.

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