With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Coda]

Walking into someone's house doesn't make you a guest.

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He was asked to enter. I think that does count.

 

[Vaermina]

First of all it is your story so if you want it to be so, so it shall be.
But let us observe:



He starts by making an offering to the gods - that covers the traditional gift giving to the ones who live in the house from a visitor.




Second the gift is accepted and he granted entry to the house.


Third he is informed by the servants that he may be in fact expected by the head of the house.






Fourth he is welcomed in the house not once but thrice from the head of it, and invited to sit down with him.
So yes you have inadvertently made Zeus as a matter of fact acknowledge OL as a guest of Olympus, no matter how he feels about him.




As usual the devil is in the details.
Reminder I never said he liked him or that he had to

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That's a really good catch.

 

[Zig]

First of all it is your story so if you want it to be so, so it shall be.
But let us observe:



He starts by making an offering to the gods - that covers the traditional gift giving to the ones who live in the house from a visitor.




Second the gift is accepted and he granted entry to the house.


Third he is informed by the servants that he may be in fact expected by the head of the house.






Fourth he is welcomed in the house not once but thrice from the head of it, and invited to sit down with him.
So yes you have inadvertently made Zeus as a matter of fact acknowledge OL as a guest of Olympus, no matter how he feels about him.




As usual the devil is in the details.
Reminder I never said he liked him or that he had to

Click to shrink...

He was asked to enter. I think that does count.

Click to shrink...

Given Zeus's word choice and that he is Zeus, "enter" cannot be assumed.

 

[Doc Sithicus]

"So I understand that I've got you waxing wroth, mortal man."
"What exactly is your problem?"

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Looks like it's gonna be that kind of conversation.

 

[rkyeun]

What do you mean Hades can't shrink down? Why? Would he need to make an Avatar body smaller to be a human height?

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Hades doesn't want to be smaller than human, but he does want to be human-sized to better interact with his human-peoples, and he can't quite get there.

Gar as in fish? or as in Gar?

Click to shrink...

Gar gar winks.

Walking into someone's house doesn't make you a guest.

Click to shrink...

Correct, it's not the walking that did it. But rather it's everything else about how he got there and who invited him after he got there does. He rings the doorbell with the ritual. The door is opened. He is invited in where someone is expecting, who instructs him to come in. Yes, he's a guest now. But easy fix, Zeus can end that with "No, leave." any time he wants.

 

[Ardy]

So since Shade never got axed in the paragon timeline, is the new president getting replaced with a robot like before? Will Paul notice that Knight/Horne's emotions are completely off and tell someone?

Or did they all get slaughtered by the Sheeda (I remember father time with Horne when Paul was getting Dr. Sivana a pardon, so are they secretly in charge now or something?)

 

[DAT_NOOB]

So since Shade never got axed in the paragon timeline, is the new president getting replaced with a robot like before? Will Paul notice that Knight/Horne's emotions are completely off and tell someone?

Or did they all get slaughtered by the Sheeda (I remember father time with Horne when Paul was getting Dr. Sivana a pardon, so are they secretly in charge now or something?)

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Ha, imagine Siviana gets a job offer and assumes that Paragon is in on it.

 

[Ardy]

Ha, imagine Siviana gets a job offer and assumes that Paragon is in on it.

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i mean, would you really put it past him if they promised to put more magic/supertech into the mainstream?

 

[Vaermina]

Would be interesting if LePaul doesn't realize he's under Xenia and then violates it, since violating it with the God of Xenia could result in some long lasting consequences.

 

[Patrick Holt]

First of all it is your story so if you want it to be so, so it shall be.
But let us observe:



He starts by making an offering to the gods - that covers the traditional gift giving to the ones who live in the house from a visitor.




Second the gift is accepted and he granted entry to the house.


Third he is informed by the servants that he may be in fact expected by the head of the house.






Fourth he is welcomed in the house not once but thrice from the head of it, and invited to sit down with him.
So yes you have inadvertently made Zeus as a matter of fact acknowledge OL as a guest of Olympus, no matter how he feels about him.




As usual the devil is in the details.
Reminder I never said he liked him or that he had to

Click to shrink...

However Zeus then breaks hospitality by not offering a meal and immediately asking why he is there.

From Wikipedia:
Xenia consists of two basic rules:

1. The respect from hosts to guests. Hosts must be hospitable to guests and provide them with a bath, food, drink, gifts, and safe escort to their next destination. It is considered rude to ask guests questions, or even to ask who they are, before they have finished the meal provided to them.

Technically Paul might not have approached under hospitality, because he has prepared plans if Zeus is unreasonable. So even though he personally will not attack or consume him, and one on one is very long odds for him to be a threat, he might still be breaking the rule for guests.

2. The respect from guests to hosts. Guests must be courteous to their hosts and not be a threat or burden. Guests are expected to provide stories and news from the outside world. Most importantly, guests are expected to reciprocate if their hosts ever call upon them in their homes.[6]​

So this is less like visiting someone as a guest and more of a political visit, so they can be looser with the respect while still not killing each other immediately.

 

[Vaermina]

However Zeus then breaks hospitality by not offering a meal and immediately asking why he is there.

From Wikipedia:
Xenia consists of two basic rules:

1. The respect from hosts to guests. Hosts must be hospitable to guests and provide them with a bath, food, drink, gifts, and safe escort to their next destination. It is considered rude to ask guests questions, or even to ask who they are, before they have finished the meal provided to them.

Technically Paul might not have approached under hospitality, because he has prepared plans if Zeus is unreasonable. So even though he personally will not attack or consume him, and one on one is very long odds for him to be a threat, he might still be breaking the rule for guests.

2. The respect from guests to hosts. Guests must be courteous to their hosts and not be a threat or burden. Guests are expected to provide stories and news from the outside world. Most importantly, guests are expected to reciprocate if their hosts ever call upon them in their homes.[6]​

So this is less like visiting someone as a guest and more of a political visit, so they can be looser with the respect while still not killing each other immediately.

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Asking questions before the meal doesn't break Xenia, it's just rude.

Also it wouldn't matter if LePaul didn't intend that, just like it doesn't matter if people intended something different when they fall under Grayven's god control portfolio.

 

[Michael Vonica]

When Vaermina calls him LePaul, it has all the puffed up pride of some news guy calling a politician names. Unless that actually means anything? And even if it does, how often he says it just makes it into some kind of smear.

 

[Khornelius]

Thank you, corrected.

Walking into someone's house doesn't make you a guest.

Click to shrink...

While that's true, I would have thought him saying "Ah, Lantern! Come! Come!" would count as an invitation at that point?
He wasn't invited to Mount Olympus but he wasn't refused entry, nor was he refused a meeting. What would that make Paul?

If the Laws of Hospitality aren't in effect things could get bad fast. Zeus and Paul both have a history of disproportionate retribution. Granted one can be petty and hypocritical and the other can be as diplomatic as a steel-toed boot to the head.

 

[Vaermina]

When Vaermina calls him LePaul, it has all the puffed up pride of some news guy calling a politician names. Unless that actually means anything? And even if it does, how often he says it just makes it into some kind of smear.

Click to shrink...

I do it because it's a lot easier then typing Lawful Evil Paul every time I want to refer to that specific version of the character.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

While that's true, I would have thought him saying "Ah, Lantern! Come! Come!" would count as an invitation at that point?

Click to shrink...

Could be his intentions are entirely different then we thought, and he purposely provoked OL to visit him.

Maybe if he can't have WW as queen he'll settle for a new orange cup bearer as a consolation prize.

 

[Ryumancer]

When Vaermina calls him LePaul, it has all the puffed up pride of some news guy calling a politician names. Unless that actually means anything? And even if it does, how often he says it just makes it into some kind of smear.

Click to shrink...

Considering the vast Paul multiverse, people tend to give each nicknames, yes. It's normal.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Spoiler: Original version

28th October 2012
12:16 GMT +3

"How blunt do you want me to be?"

His smile broadens in a decidedly unfriendly way. "Knock yourself out."

"You asked Diana to-."

"Princess Diana."

"I have her permission to refer to her by name."

"She is your sovereign. You should refer to her by her title."

"My considerable respect for Diana is unaffected by what I call her. I don't need to constantly remind myself that she's my superior. If anything, Lord Zeus, the deferential way I respond to her even without being compelled to use it should be an indicator of how much respect I feel for her."

He shrugs, reaching out to pick up a goblet of watered down wine. "Perhaps you left barbarian culture too old to learn proper manners."

"Perhaps. But the point I was trying to make is that there's nothing wrong with you asking Diana to marry you-."

"I'm so glad that I have your permission."

"You need her mother's permission, not mine. But whether or not you need it, I can comment on how right it is. And it's fine. You asked, she said no. Then you sent her to Tartarus."

"I'm her divine sovereign."

"Yes?"

"I was being polite about the marriage thing. Saying no to me has consequences."

"Oh. At least you're not pretending it wasn't about that."

He frowns, scoffing. "What else was it going to be about? The titans? My brother is watching them like a two-headed eagle."

"So are you planning on leaving her down there until she changes her mind?"

"Eh." He looks away from me, giving it some thought. "Probably not."

"'Probably not' as in..?"

His eyes widen as he glares, and-. He's not crackling with lightning or anything, but it looks like some of the stroma of his irises are glowing. "As in probably not."

"Is there something you would like in exchange for-?"

"You respecting my position would be a start."

"'Respect the position' or 'respect the man'?"

"Pay your respects to Cronus and see how far it gets you."

"Maybe your marriage prospects would be better if you actually stayed true to your marriage vows."

"Maybe mortals would be more respectful if I-"

LIGHTNING! FORCE! UNBRIDLED POWER!

I shrink back slightly without meaning to.

"-took the time to remind them of my power!"

"And maybe they'd see you for the brute and tyrant that you are. I mean, my god, Eris has done more to advance the pantheon recently than you have. She's spent more time with Cassandra, too."

And wasn't learning that a surprise. She's even been volunteering to babysit.

"If my youngest daughter wants my attention then she can earn it."

I can't help but chuckle. "I can't imagine why no one wants to marry you."

"Do you think that the lightning I threw at you is the limit of my power?"

"Oh, no. I know perfectly well that you aren't weak. I can see your power. Feel it. I know that you're no weaker now than you were three thousand years ago. I just don't care."

"Are you living each moment as if it were your last? Or do you want to die for your princess?"

"Since I got my ring, I've learned to live in accordance with my desire, unhindered by fear. I've not quite gotten to the point where I'd rather die than back down, but if something-" I smile. "-or someone tries to stop me or mine living how they want, I start working out how to stop them being a problem."

I lean towards him.

"And you're being a problem."

WANT.

"You should have been removed as king when you lost Greece to a Jewish architect. Instead, everyone followed your lead and just gave up. You are incompetent. This incident hasn't changed my mind about you; it's just made dealing with it more urgent."

"Hah! I honestly can't remember last time a mortal spoke-. No, anyone spoke to me with such disrespect. What makes you think I won't erase you from existence, mortal?"

"Why would I think you're more skilled at erasing people than you are at being king?"

"Oh. Okay."

LIGHTNING RETRIBUTION SMITING CHASTISEMENT!

There's no build-up, just lightning and the idea of lightning, sudden and powerful, leaping towards me before taking a right angle and flying out of the room. Zeus cuts it off and stares after it, frowning.

"I'm jolly glad that worked."

"How..?"

Clank. Clank. Clank.

The doors bang open and then lock in place as the hulking figure lumbers in. He's more muscular than Zeus; his build actually puts me in mind of Kalmin, the product of countless hours performing physically demanding labour with his upper body. He's wearing space-aged body armour in shining gold, though his left leg appears less armoured and more replaced with a cybernetic styled after the rest of the armour. In his hands is a huge hammer whose head sparks and cracks with caged lightning. The back of the armour is bulky and further expanded by the resting mechanical manipulator appendages attached to it.

"Father. Striking at a herald."

Zeus and I both rise to our feet, him to square off against his opponent and me to clear the area. The circuitry that allowed him to do that just melted off my cup so I'd rather he didn't get it into his head to try again.

"That armour. Hephaestus? Did you cut off your own leg?"

"A king is owed fealty and respect, and owes his people direction, protection and justice. You provide none of those, and hence are owed nothing. You're a bent nail, a rotten beam due for replacement."

"It seems that I'll have to throw you off this mountain again, Hephaestus. This time you'll land on your head."

"We'll see." Blades and arcane ranged weapons uncurl from his back. "And my name is not Hephaestus. I'm Hephaestaean."

28th October 2012
12:16 GMT +3

I look him in the

Crackling thunderheads.

eyes for a moment. His body is mimicking human expression. It's designed to do that. And I get the strong impression that he thinks he knows what I'm up to and that he's confident that he can deal with it. Could be just the contempt he generally feels for mortals, irritation that one has gone as far as I have. Or it could be that he genuinely knows what I've planned and thinks that he can cope with it.

He was clever, back when the gods fought the titans. Cunning. Even inspiring. But with over a thousand years with nothing much to do… How clever is he today?

Can't tell. But whatever the answer, I should maximise my advantages. And we're in the heart of what's left of the Hellenic mythos here.

"I probably shouldn't. I wouldn't want to violate the rules of hospitality."

"Oh, don't worry." He smiles and gestures at me with a swing of his right hand. "I make allowances for half-civilised barbarians."

"If you're making an allowance, I felt that the lightning bolt you threw at me last year was a little unnecessary."

For a moment, he's nonplussed.

"You lived. Something few can claim."

"I was fighting angels at the time. Angels from the religion that is currently practised by about ninety nine percent of Greeks. I fail to see how attacking me when I'm doing that is in the Hellenic interest."

"And that was why I did not strike you twice. You flew too close to my temple for me to simply ignore you."

"What I'm curious about is, why you decided to strike me once."

His eyes remain fixed on me, unblinking.

"Because you persuaded Hera to forsake me, as well you know."

"Funny story about that." I gesture to the closest fruit bowl with my right hand. "May I?"

"By all means. Though perhaps you should avoid the pomegranates. I doubt that either of us want you stuck here."

He smiles as he says it, but I'll stick to the plums.

"Thank you."

I pick one up, and use a construct knife to slice through the flesh and extract the stone.

"As you may understand, I struggle to see the humour in my ex-wife appearing in court while drunk and dishevelled, insulting me at length before finally forsaking me."

"I didn't recognise her. I had no idea that I was talking to Hera until after she left."

Eyes still fixed on me, he breathes in slowly.

Then he exhales.

"Eris."

"I mean, I said it. I meant every word. But if I'd known, I might have been more cautious. What I don't understand is why you care. You're a free man, now, free to bed any man or woman you like without breaking your marriage vows. In some places it's even legal to do that in the form of an animal. Good plum, by the way. My compliments to the farmer."

I haven't eaten any of it.

"I have no need to justify myself to you. Or her."

"Of course not. But my understanding was that you had agreed of your own free w-."

Sudden force.

"I have no need to justify myself."

That one… That one actually echoed, and his face… Glowed. But he didn't take any overtly aggressive action. Not enough. And… While I could needle him on that point, that might go beyond bounds.

"At least you know the 'why' now. And I know that you hit me with lightning because you could not continue to ignore me."

"Quite."

"Can we talk about the reason why I'm here now, or is that covered by 'you don't need to explain yourself'?"

His smile broadens in a decidedly unfriendly way. "Knock yourself out."

"You asked Diana to-."

"Princess Diana."

"I have her permission to refer to her by name."

"She is your sovereign. You should refer to her by her title."

"My considerable respect for Diana is unaffected by what I call her. I don't need to constantly remind myself that she's my superior. If anything, Lord Zeus, the deferential way I respond to her even without being compelled to use it should be an indicator of how much respect I feel for her."

He shrugs, reaching out to pour a small measure of wine and a larger measure of water into a goblet. "Perhaps you left barbarian culture too old to learn proper manners."

"Perhaps. But the point I was trying to make is that there's nothing wrong with you asking Diana to marry you-."

"I'm so glad that I have your permission."

"You need her mother's permission, not mine. But whether or not you need it, I can comment on how right it is. And it's fine. You asked, she said no. Then you sent her to Tartarus."

"I'm her divine sovereign."

"Yes?"

"I was being polite about the marriage thing. Saying no to me has consequences."

"Oh. At least you're not pretending it wasn't about that."

He frowns, scoffing. "What else was it going to be about? The titans? My brother is watching them like a two-headed eagle. Fraternal gibes aside, he has my utmost respect."

"So are you planning on leaving her down there until she changes her mind?"

"Eh." He looks away from me, giving it some thought. "Probably not."

"'Probably not' as in..?"

His eyes widen as he glares, and-. He's not cracking with lightning or anything, but it looks like some of the stroma of his irises are glowing. "As in probably not."

"Is there something you would like in exchange for-?"

"You respecting my position would be a start. I am the King of Olympus, not some minor god you can trade with like a merchant."

I nod again. Probably pushed that as far as I can. What should I-?

"Alright, I… Think we're both pushing what courtesy will allow." I point to a harp on a stand at the side of the room. "Perhaps some music might improve the mood?"

 

[Ngamer11]

"We'll see." Blades and arcane ranged weapons uncurl from his back. "And my name is not Hephaestus. I'm Hephaestian."

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What is the significance to this rename?

 

[_The_Bomb]

Excellent. Can't wait to read!

edit: Got to say, it was actually quite refreshing for Zeus to not pretend he sent Diana to Tartarus for any reason other than her refusal. He even commented in how phenomenal Hades is in his vigil, unprompted!
(still a gigantic asshole though)


Also:
"….If anything, Lord Zeus, the deferential way I respond to her even without being compelled to use it should be an indicator of how much respect I feel for her."

Damn Paul, you really aren't being subtle.

 

[LanguagAe]

Well this moved fast. Does this mean that Big H is spreading off earth for the future outside of bird land ?

 

[Darko]

His smile broadens is a decidedly

Click to shrink...

'in a'

"You asked Diana to-."

"Princess Diana."

"I have her permission to refer to her by name."

"She is your sovereign. You should refer to her by her title

Click to shrink...

There's that pettiness.

"You need her mother's permission, not mine. But whether or not you need it, I can comment on how right it is. And it's fine. You asked, she said no. Then you sent her to Tartarus."

"I'm her divine sovereign."

"Yes?"

"I was being polite about the marriage thing. Saying no to me has consequences."

"Oh. At least you're not pretending it wasn't about that

Click to shrink...

At least he's admitting that he's doing it for petty reasons.

"You respecting my position would be a start."

"'Respect the position' or 'respect the man

Click to shrink...

I don't think the second option is possible.

"Maybe mortals would be more respectful if I-"

LIGHTNING! FORCE! UNBRIDLED POWER!

I shrink back slightly without meaning to.

Click to shrink...

Well...we haven't seen Paul show fear in a long time.

And maybe they'd see you for the brute and tyrant that you are. I mean, my god, Eris has done more to advance the pantheon recently than you have. She's spent more time with Cassandra, too."

And wasn't learning that a surprise. She's even been volunteering to babysit.

Click to shrink...

Ohh, the headaches she is likely to give her mother in the future.

honestly can't remember last time a mortal

Click to shrink...

'the last time'

The doors bang open and then lock in place as the hulking figure lumbers in. He's more muscular than Zeus; his build actually puts me in mind of Kalmin, the product of countless hours performing physically demanding labour with his upper body. He's wearing space-aged body armour in shining gold, though his left leg appears less armoured and more replaced with a cybernetic styled after the rest of the armour. In his hands is a huge hammer whose head sparks and cracks with caged lightning. The back of the armour is bulky and further expanded by the resting mechanical manipulator appendages attached to it

Click to shrink...

Well, Heph has certainly improved himself.

"It seems that I'll have to throw you off this mountain again, Hephaestus. This time you'll land on your head."

"We'll see." Blades and arcane ranged weapons uncurl from his back. "And my name is not Hephaestus. I'm Hephaestian

Click to shrink...

Let's get ready to rumble!

 

[Fallen Gods Rise]

What is the significance to this rename?

Click to shrink...

I second this question

 

[Stsword]

What is the significance to this rename?

Click to shrink...

Tian as a suffix denotes origin, such as Egyptian or Venetian.

So the implication is basically "From Hephaestus."

AKA signifying that he's Hephaestus 2.0

 

[FeepingCreature]

He's a feisty one!

 

[Massgamer]

Its a shame there is no audience for this.

Would be awesome if the rest of the pantheon was here to watch along with all the other minor gods and beings from Greek mythology.

 

[Brainwasher-Boy]

Gods damn, the build up is killing me. This doesn't look like the curb stomp fight I was afraid of, Zeus seems to have the power to back up his arrogance.

Place your bets, folks! No-Holds-Bared Zeus, or Adeptus Mechanicus Hephaestian?
Let's get ready for a Death Baaaattttttttttttlllllllllleeee!!!!!!!

 

[Stsword]

Its a shame there is no audience for this.

Would be awesome if the rest of the pantheon was here to watch along with all the other minor gods and beings from Greek mythology.

Click to shrink...

Please he's now the titan of technology.

He's obviously livestreaming this all over social media.

 

[DAT_NOOB]

"Hah! I honestly can't remember last time a mortal spoke-. No, anyone spoke to me with such disrespect. What makes you think I won't erase you from existence, mortal?"

Click to shrink...

I doubt he would be any more successful than the host of heaven, or Qwa-matter.

Its a shame there is no audience for this.

Would be awesome if the rest of the pantheon was here to watch along with all the other minor gods and beings from Greek mythology.

Click to shrink...

I imagine they got a heads up and ducked for cover.

Gods damn, the build up is killing me. This doesn't look like the curb stomp fight I was afraid of, Zeus seems to have the power to back up his arrogance.

Place your bets, folks! No-Holds-Bared Zeus, or Adeptus Mechanicus Hephaestian?
Let's get ready for a Death Baaaattttttttttttlllllllllleeee!!!!!!!

Click to shrink...

I imagine Paul will back up Hephaestian if the fight goes south.

 

[Travisplo]

It's also a very Super name. 'Hephestian, World's Greatest Smith'!

 

[Blackshard]

Its a shame there is no audience for this.

Would be awesome if the rest of the pantheon was here to watch along with all the other minor gods and beings from Greek mythology.

Click to shrink...

There are all kinds of remote viewing options, and many gods with an interest in this. If Eris doesn't have popcorn, it's only because she had a more creative idea for a fight-watching snack.