With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Assblaster5000]

Orange Lantern is psychologically unhealthy as fuck,

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I still don't get this argument. Paragon isn't Human anymore, not really, so why does everyone keep trying to apply Human psychology to him? It feels like saying a Fae is inhuman, and last I checked that was kind of the point.

I do agree that Superman should basically be able to shrug off most of what Paragon is saying though. The only thing I can see him maybe being on the fence about here is if he should start trying to give Humanity some Kryptonian tech to improve quality of life. It's one of the few areas he could do better in than he already is while maintaining good mental health.

 

[Mr Zoat]

If that was the conversation, then Superman's reaction still makes no sense.

Actually apply that logic. Emergency responders, doctors, and other professionals in such fields could save more people if they worked more often, left their homes, volunteered in poor countries, and so on and so forth. However that line of argument doesn't work because that would essentially require that they be nothing more than inhuman machines with no personal relationships, no personal interests, and no life outside of saving people.

Which is not only not how people are built to function, but can actually be counterproductive given the risk of burnout and additional psychological deficiencies and disorders capable of arising from the stress, monofocus, and other related factors of such a life.

Notice how few, if any people give other emergency responders and professionals in the human aid adjacent agencies shit over them not sacrificing everything for the sake of their "mission"? Especially since most people don't do it either. I mean, it's not like authors or bankers or other professionals are incapable of becoming trained to help people in some capacity either, but nobody is giving them shit for choosing to do something else with their time and their lives either.

Which is why given any thought, this line of argument should be easily something Superman should be able to response to OL about. Especially since Superman is no god, and has neither omnipotence or the omniscience to be able to see all ends and be capable of all things. Orange Lantern is psychologically unhealthy as fuck, and is operating heavily outside normal baseline, but Superman isn't, and should easily be able to point that out.

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All of that is true. The issue here is that Superman hasn't ever sat down and thought about why he does what he does. That speech he gave in canon and that the Renegade mocked him for? That's how he honestly feels.

 

[zeebza]

What was that speech again? It's been awhile and I've forgotten.

 

[PDV]

head on the desk, wondering what god he pissed off to suffer like this...

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The Ophidian, clearly. Should have taken Paul up on the 'better than The Light' project.

 

[Coda]

So he might died at three hundred

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might die

 

[Doccer]

They didn't notice that he was fitter than most of the staff when he joined the Planet.

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And given that place is supposed to be a den of news seekers and reporters...OL should really go take a look as their emotions, see if their eyes just glaze right over when looking at him.

 

[Ngamer11]

What was that speech again? It's been awhile and I've forgotten.

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The one where he says that the Justice League was formed because the heroes learned that some things can't be handled on their own. The Renegade mocked the speech while with the Team, pointed out some glaring flaws, and then called the Justice League out as Righteous Face Punchers, to the rest of the Team's shock.

 

[Mr Zoat]

might die

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Thank you, corrected.

What was that speech again? It's been awhile and I've forgotten.

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[Darko]

So he might died at three hundred, or… Maybe not."

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"die"

 

[Darko]

They didn't notice that he was fitter than most of the staff when he joined the Planet

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And given that place is supposed to be a den of news seekers and reporters...OL should really go take a look as their emotions, see if their eyes just glaze right over when looking at him.

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Ahh, this isn't really that difficult to understand and explain away.

The guy grew up on a farm so he'd have probably done a lot of physical labor and that would lead to him developing a lot of muscle.

That's probably the explanation they gave themselves or he gave them if they ever questioned it.

 

[Zig]

No, but the power still exists.

I forgot about him.

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So uhh what happened with the whole story where Captain Marvel couldn't transform after Hephaesten dethroned Zeus, OL went to Zeus to ask for help and Zeus told him to suck his dick, so he went on a quest to try and replace him in the acronym? Resolved off screen?

 

[Assblaster5000]

So uhh what happened with the whole story where Captain Marvel couldn't transform after Hephaesten dethroned Zeus, OL went to Zeus to ask for help and Zeus told him to suck his dick, so he went on a quest to try and replace him in the acronym? Resolved off screen?

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Fairly sure Susanoo took the job in exchange for exposure for his pantheon.

 

[Chaoswind]

If that was the conversation, then Superman's reaction still makes no sense.

Actually apply that logic. Emergency responders, doctors, and other professionals in such fields could save more people if they worked more often, left their homes, volunteered in poor countries, and so on and so forth. However that line of argument doesn't work because that would essentially require that they be nothing more than inhuman machines with no personal relationships, no personal interests, and no life outside of saving people.

Which is not only not how people are built to function, but can actually be counterproductive given the risk of burnout and additional psychological deficiencies and disorders capable of arising from the stress, monofocus, and other related factors of such a life.

Notice how few, if any people give other emergency responders and professionals in the human aid adjacent agencies shit over them not sacrificing everything for the sake of their "mission"? Especially since most people don't do it either. I mean, it's not like authors or bankers or other professionals are incapable of becoming trained to help people in some capacity either, but nobody is giving them shit for choosing to do something else with their time and their lives either.

Which is why given any thought, this line of argument should be easily something Superman should be able to response to OL about. Especially since Superman is no god, and has neither omnipotence or the omniscience to be able to see all ends and be capable of all things. Orange Lantern is psychologically unhealthy as fuck, and is operating heavily outside normal baseline, but Superman isn't, and should easily be able to point that out.

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But that is incongruous with Superman own desires. He wants to be a hero and help people his own personal happiness wasn't ever a factor because he never thought too deeply about the problem.

He is having an existential problem because Paul asked Clark a lot of questions in regards how he COPES with the knowledge that he could do way more and yet chooses his own personal happiness and life work balance instead. This is a big issue because Clark hadn't noticed he was doing that, he thought he was the best hero he could be, but now he is asking himself if that is even true because he clearly rates spending time with his friends and family and having a small life extremely highly and he is feeling ashamed about it.

No, but the power still exists.

I forgot about him.

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This fic is so bloated that you really need a Bible to keep plot points and characters on track and that is probably way more work than you are prepared to commit.


It's a shame the fan wiki never got as far as it could have been, but that is a lot of work for a fan to do... That is why editors get paid.

 

[Mr Zoat]

Fairly sure Susanoo took the job in exchange for exposure for his pantheon.

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That sounds like something I might have written back when I was thinking about it.

 

[RoninSword]

In specific, Susanoo showed up at the Rock of Eternity to talk to Shazaam, and then the angel guy who I forget the name of also said that he might be able to lend some power but that he would need to speak to his king first.
And then we didn't hear any more about it.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

Notibly it was because zeus's thunderbolts weren't working anymore, preventing captain from transforming via the lightning and returning to his child form.

He was going to think about Susanoo, but as a practicing christian he was gonna talk to the team's resident angel for an alternative that fit him.

 

[Old Knife]

Notibly it was because zeus's thunderbolts weren't working anymore, preventing captain from transforming via the lightning and returning to his child form.

He was going to think about Susanoo, but as a practicing christian he was gonna talk to the team's resident angel for an alternative that fit him.

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Well the flames of Samael would be a hilarious substitute for lightning bolts.

Heck having a Christian version of captain Marvel powered by various angels would probably start off an arms race. A very very interesting arms race.

 

[Stsword]

Well the flames of Samael would be a hilarious substitute for lightning bolts.

Heck having a Christian version of captain Marvel powered by various angels would probably start off an arms race. A very very interesting arms race.

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Hey they can get in line behind Captain Thunder. The power of a Tornado, speed of a Hare, bravery of Uncas, wisdom of Nature, toughness of Diamond, the flight of an eagle, and the tenacity of a Ram.

 

[Mr Zoat]

17th December 2012
11:12 GMT

"Hm."

Commodore Amalak leans against the railing as he looks down upon one of the battle damaged regions of Chughraghahh.

"I'd have thought that you would be more efficient."

"It was about sending a message. Quickly."

He turns, right arm leaning on the rail while he gestures with his left.

"You're a fascinating man, Illustres. The way you intervened in the peace talks and actually made them work, the way you took Felicia and handed her over to that Crown Imperium charity rather than keeping her as a concubine, I rather formed a particular vision of you in my mind. Then you destroyed the Citadel Complex with such ferocity and ruthlessness, and here…"

He glances back over his shoulder.

"Here I can only describe your behaviour as callous. Not a terrible personality trait for a soldier -and I know exactly how repugnant the Spider Guild is- but I find I struggle to reconcile what I see here with what I saw then."

"It was a utility calculation. The Spider Guild is far stronger here than they were in Vega, and the local civilisations aren't…"

"Pirates with delusions of civilisation? Don't worry, I've heard worse."

"Right, they're just… People, managing their own affairs and occasionally having their citizens abducted and eaten. One is clearly more moral than the other. So if my actions aid Karax and hurt Chughraghahh, that's fine. Nothing of value was lost. But in Vega, while that's true of the Psions and arguably the Citadel Complex, it's less obvious that it was true about the rest of you. The Queen doesn't want to eat people and you're just an 'aggressive capitalist'. I've got no reason to violently advantage one in favour of the other if I want to improve the region."

"But the Psions and the Citadelians… Don't meet your requirements."

"Didn't meet my requirements."

"'Want the ends, want the means'. Still, for most people, going from throwing space stations at a planet to defending it with such fervour would require a major change in outlook."

"I wasn't particularly fervorous, to be honest." I sigh. "I'm.. rethinking my approach a little. Otherwise I might well have not bothered defending them. But the fact is there isn't anything worth salvaging here; utility would be maximised by exterminating them. Between my doubt and the fact that the local interdiction system messes up subspace storage, I wasn't anything like as effective as I'm used to being."

It would have been difficult to get a solid tether attached to the main mass of the railgun rounds through their plasma sheath, but it would have been slightly more efficient than what I was doing. The Guild don't use subspace but do occasionally find themselves at odds with species who do, so they pre-empted my efforts.

"But to return to the matter of Vega, you're satisfied with the Queen's behaviour?"

"She has been scrupulous in upholding her end of the agreement. What friction there has been comes from disagreements between the other parties. Though I must admit… Even damaged like this, I'm a little concerned about the Queen taking on this much additional industrial capacity."

"I assume that it's not practical for you to expand this far from Vega."

"You assume correctly. Unless you're going to give me Vran back, in which case things get a good deal easier."

The Dominion uses fixed portals to transport their fleets long distance. Putting one here and one in Vega would be a functional solution, but I'd have to either persuade the Dominion to let me rent one from them or create them myself and be prepared for their open hostility when they found out. They already don't like me for breaking Vril out in the first place.

But a large scale zeta radiation based system…

"I could make travelling back and forth a good deal easier. N.E.M.O. has the technology for interstellar gateways."

"That's Dominion technology."

I shake my head. "Similar concept, different execution. I can't promise you that they won't pick a fight over it, but it's not something they routinely do."

"Other places use your version?"

"My homeworld has been using them for years, and I know of one other planet that has a similar arrangement."

"Is there some other catch?"

"I don't intend to give it to you. The Queen's going to be paying you in goods and services to be the guarantor of the new treaty, but there will be a charge for the gateway."

"Per use, or..?"

"I think I'll lease it to you. For the duration of the contract. The more money you can make with it, the bigger your margin."

"A reasonable prospect. How cheap are they to run?"

"We use them for global planet-side transportation on my home world. Unless they're in continuous use, they're pretty darn cheap."

"So. I agree to protect the neighbouring polities against the Spider Guild, and the Spider Guild against the neighbouring polities. With a gate thrown in to make me appreciate the opportunities for diversification. And with the Guild making payment in kind, I can build up a huge tonnage in merchantmen while accessing a new pool of recruits."

I nod.

"Then I'd be a fool to reject it out of hand. Let me know when you've hammered out the specifics."

"Will do. Do you want a lift back to your ship?"

"No, I think I'll continue the tour, start speaking to the locals. Without you around. I imagine that they're finding you a little overwhelming at present."

"I'll see you later, then."

I step out and

reappear next to-.

"Not-Daddy!"

The Queen, as Princess perks up, and-.

"Princess, you appear to be furry."

"M-Hm. Mummy says that Spiders are too different from humanoid physiological norms to be erotically appealing, so the best I can do is look cute and inoffensive. And that means full body fur!"

She spreads out her upper arms.

"Hugs!"

I open my arms and she jumps, grabbing onto my torso and rubbing herself against me like a living spider-teddy. Her chitin is well covered and I can honestly see her being a far better diplomatic envoy than any the Guild has used to date.

I look up at her indulgent mother.

"Perhaps we could go over the terms I've been discussing with Amalak?"

 

[Splinterface]

I step out and

reappear next to-.

"Not-Daddy!"

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Pictured here: Paul not beating the spider-lover allegations.

 

[JamesEye]

Spider daughter is cute and I hope nothing bad happens to her.

 

[Old Knife]

She's certainly approaching things in an objective manner.

 

[Vaermina]

But a large scale zeta radiation based system…

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Here we see someone who hasn't seen Green Lantern: Beware My Power.

Because if he had, he would know why that was a horrible idea.

"M-Hm. Mummy says that Spiders are too different from humanoid physiological norms to be erotically appealing, so the best I can do is look cute and inoffensive. And that means full body fur!"

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There are multiple sections of Rule 34 that would disprove this.

Like seriously... Give her a general humanoid shape and stick something approaching boobs on her and you would be golden.

 

[Ngamer11]

"You assume correctly. Unless you're going to give me Vran back, in which case things get a good deal easier."

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I think this is another continuity error. Vran tried out being a Lantern, but then found it wasn't really her thing. Unless she didn't return to Amalak and went somewhere else after deciding against being an Orange Lantern. Maybe do something with Colu?

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

17th December 2012
11:12 GMT

"Hm."

Commodore Amalak leans against the railing as he looks down upon one of the battle damaged regions of Chughraghahh.

Click to shrink...

Admiring OL's handiwork, and perhaps wondering what the man might have done if Amalak's forces weren't making themselves useful, I bet. After all, his work upon the Citadel would also be coming to mind. The moral: Don't get on OL's bad side...

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

"I'd have thought that you would be more efficient."

"It was about sending a message. Quickly."

Click to shrink...

Sadly, the person - A Spider Guilder Yellow Lantern - he was sending it to didn't really bother listening to it. Too high on the power of Fear...

He turns, right arm leaning on the rail while he gestures with his left.

"You're a fascinating man, Illustres. The way you intervened in the peace talks and actually made them work, the way you took Felicia and handed her over to that Crown Imperium charity rather than keeping her as a concubine, I rather formed a particular vision of you in my mind. Then you destroyed the Citadel Complex with such ferocity and ruthlessness, and here…"

Click to shrink...

So many contradictions, eh? It's like he's doing whatever he feels like doing at the time.

He glances back over his shoulder.

"Here I can only describe your behaviour as callous. Not a terrible personality trait for a soldier -and I know exactly how repugnant the Spider Guild is- but I find I struggle to reconcile what I see here with what I saw then."

Click to shrink...

Expediency. Needs must, and all that. In this case, he had to lay down with dogs, and was smart enough to have flea shampoo ready.

"It was a utility calculation. The Spider Guild is far stronger here than they were in Vega, and the local civilisations aren't…"

"Pirates with delusions of civilisation? Don't worry, I've heard worse."

Click to shrink...

...That's honestly the best description of them I've heard.

"Right, they're just… People, managing their own affairs and occasionally having their citizens abducted and eaten. One is clearly more moral than the other. So if my actions aid Karax and hurt Chughraghahh, that's fine. Nothing of value was lost. But in Vega, while that's true of the Psions and arguably the Citadel Complex, it's less obvious that it was true about the rest of you. The Queen doesn't want to eat people and you're just an 'aggressive capitalist'. I've got no reason to violently advantage one in favour of the other if I want to improve the region."

Click to shrink...

And being OL's 'friend' is much healthier than being an enemy or an impediment.

"But the Psions and the Citadelians… Don't meet your requirements."

"Didn't meet my requirements."

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Yeah, what few might still be around aren't exactly going to be doing much of anything.

"'What the means, want the ends'. Still, for most people, going from throwing space stations at a planet to defending it with such fervour would require a major change in outlook."

"I wasn't particularly fervorous, to be honest." I sigh. "I'm.. rethinking my approach a little. Otherwise I might well have not bothered defending them. But the fact is there isn't anything worth salvaging here; utility would be maximised by exterminating them. Between my doubt and the fact that the local interdiction system messes up subspace storage, I wasn't anything like as effective as I'm used to being."

Click to shrink...

Ah, did you read OL's book, Commodore? And 'Subspace interdiction', huh? Guess that makes as good an excuse as any, especially if you don't want to mention... Them.

It would have been difficult to get a solid tether attached to the main mass of the railgun rounds through their plasma sheath, but it would have been slightly more efficient than what I was doing. The Guild don't use subspace but do occasionally find themselves at odds with species who do, so they pre-empted my efforts.

"But to return to the matter of Vega, you're satisfied with the Queen's behaviour?"

Click to shrink...

And first amongst those who use subspace storage being Green Lanterns, eh? Not that they'd admit that's the reason for it, would they...

"She has been scrupulous in upholding her end of the agreement. What friction there has been comes from disagreements between the other parties. Though I must admit… Even damaged like this, I'm a little concerned about the Queen taking on this much additional industrial capacity."

"I assume that it's not practical for you to expand this far from Vega."

Click to shrink...

Bah, with the right tricks, distance mean nothing!

"You assume correctly. Unless you're going to give me Vran back, in which case things get a good deal easier."

The Dominion uses fixed portals to transport their fleets long distance. Putting one here and one in Vega would be a functional solution, but I'd have to either persuade the Dominion to let me rent one from them or create them myself and be prepared for their open hostility when they found out. They already don't like me for breaking Vril out in the first place.

Click to shrink...

Eh, they already want him dead on a lab table, you think he cares about them not liking him?

But a large scale zeta radiation based system…

"I could make travelling back and forth a good deal easier. N.E.M.O. has the technology for interstellar gateways."

Click to shrink...

Ooh, that's going to be quite the force multiplier. Drop a gateway assembler on a stealth ship, send it off to find a useful staging ground deep behind enemy lines...

"That's Dominion technology."

I shake my head. "Similar concept, different execution. I can't promise you that they won't pick a fight over it, but it's not something they routinely do."

Click to shrink...

"You are infringing on our intellectual property!"
"You're just mad because you didn't think of it first..."
"...Curse you!"

"Other places use your version?"

"My homeworld has been using them for years, and I know of one other planet that has a similar arrangement."

Click to shrink...

...Oh, right, Rann is a thing. Honestly surprised he hasn't met with Adam Strange on-screen. Guess he's been off-world.

"Is there some other catch?"

"I don't intend to give it to you. The Queen's going to be paying you in goods and services to be the guarantor of the new treaty, but there will be a charge for the gateway."

Click to shrink...

And make it expensive, so he doesn't treat it casually...

"Per use, or..?"

"I think I'll lease it to you. For the duration of the contract. The more money you can make with it, the bigger your margin."

Click to shrink...

That faint 'cha-ching' sound you hear is Amalak musing over the potential profits...

"A reasonable prospect. How cheap are they to run?"

"We use them for global planet-side transportation on my home world. Unless they're in continuous use, they're pretty darn cheap."

Click to shrink...

Admittedly, Zeta-beams can be disrupted by bad weather. But I doubt Dolmen Gates would work in this situation...

"So. I agree to protect the neighbouring polities against the Spider Guild, and the Spider Guild against the neighbouring polities. With a gate thrown in to make me appreciate the opportunities for diversification. And with the Guild making payment in kind, I can build up a huge tonnage in merchantmen while accessing a new pool of recruits."

I nod.

Click to shrink...

Yes, quite the potential profit indeed. and you'll hold the keys to the only fast route to access all that.

"Then I'd be a fool to reject it out of hand. Let me know when you've hammered out the specifics."

"Will do. Do you want a lift back to your ship?"

Click to shrink...

Just in case any locals are holding grudges against anthropoids. ...Or are hungry.

"No, I think I'll continue the tour, start speaking to the locals. Without you around. I imagine that they're finding you a little overwhelming at present."

"I'll see you later, then."

Click to shrink...

Yes, well, they've got good reason to think that...

I step out and

reappear next to-.

"Not-Daddy!"

Click to shrink...

Ah, meeting with the Spider-Queen of Vega... And her princess.

The Queen, as Princess perks up, and-.

"Princess, you appear to be furry."

Click to shrink...

So... A little something like this? As if she wasn't adorable enough...

"M-Hm. Mummy says that Spiders are too different from humanoid physiological norms to be erotically appealing, so the best I can do is look cute and inoffensive. And that means full body fur!"

She spreads out her upper arms.

Click to shrink...

Well, appealing to most people, anyway. Some folks...

"Hugs!"

I open my arms and she jumps, grabbing onto my torso and rubbing herself against me like a living spider-teddy. Her chitin is well covered and I can honestly see her being a far better diplomatic envoy than any the Guild has used to date.

Click to shrink...

Especially if she remains this enthusiastic.

I look up at her indulgent mother.

"Perhaps we could go over the terms I've been discussing with Amalak?"

Click to shrink...

Quit talking business for a bit and relax, OL. Enjoy the fluffy spider-hugs.

So, taking a break from bugging the League, huh? Probably for the best. Might have trouble getting any of the others to agree to having you shadow them anytime soon. Nice to see the fallout of Chughraghahh <cough> isn't going away anytime soon either. It'll be interesting to see what he can try next to make himself a bit lighter and softer...

 

[Chaoswind]

I think this is another continuity error. Vran tried out being a Lantern, but then found it wasn't really her thing. Unless she didn't return to Amalak and went somewhere else after deciding against being an Orange Lantern. Maybe do something with Colu?

Click to shrink...

Vran is in Colu.

A strike force of green Lanterns took the computer tyrants out after the orange corps facilitated the civilians rescue.

Mr Zoat last thing we hear of Vran she was thinking of going to eventually return to Amalak after she helped organize her people.

The computer tyrants are kaput.

Zoat do you want us to go over the space threats that have been neutralized by Paul and his corps?

 

[Duke Long]

"'What the means, want the ends'.

Click to shrink...

'Want'
Also, isn't it usually 'Want the ends, want the means.'?

 

[Darko]

"Not-Daddy!"

The Queen, as Princess perks up

Click to shrink...

The best thing to happen in this fic is back!

"M-Hm. Mummy says that Spiders are too different from humanoid physiological norms to be erotically appealing, so the best I can do is look cute and inoffensive. And that means full body fur

Click to shrink...

Ahh, this isn't exactly true.

 

[Windona]

Don't tell the Spider Guild about buggies.

Aww, cute Spider-not daughter! Though it is interesting to see how things are going with Amalak, and what would happen if he knows about Krytponians on Earth

 

[Senevri]

"Princess, you appear to be furry."

Click to shrink...

Great. Does she also have a jumping spider's eye configuration?
Also, actual spiders have tiny paws.