With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

Coda · Feb 21, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
She indicates her lantern-prison.

Was this supposed to be colored?

Darko · Feb 21, 2023

Ngamer11 said:
He's one of the OLC's best fighters right now, and he also helps train other lanterns.

He also helped Paul when the Angels attacked.

Wheenesss · Feb 21, 2023

I'm surprised you can fit an entity powerful enough to fuel a power ring in such a small space. I know Paul did it with the Ophidian but that was only because it wanted to stay there.

Mr Zoat · Feb 21, 2023

Coda said:
Was this supposed to be colored?

Thank you, corrected.

Wheenesss said:
I'm surprised you can fit an entity powerful enough to fuel a power ring in such a small space. I know Paul did it with the Ophidian but that was only because it wanted to stay there.

Lantern Priest is pretty insistent that no one needs a personal lantern.

Wheenesss · Feb 21, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Lantern Priest is pretty insistent that no one needs a personal lantern.

Has he appeared in story yet?

RoninSword · Feb 21, 2023

Wheenesss said:
Has he appeared in story yet?

He first showed up in Malvolio's arc and in the last chapter he literally just points out that he believes personal lanterns are a crutch.

Stsword · Feb 22, 2023

Wheenesss said:
I'm surprised you can fit an entity powerful enough to fuel a power ring in such a small space. I know Paul did it with the Ophidian but that was only because it wanted to stay there.

"Phenomenal cosmic powers. Itty bitty living space."

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2023

20th January 2013
19:06 GMT

Malvolio looks around Maltus with an air of puzzled curiosity. His response to the various warring stellar nations in his sector has been to send them to their corners, allowing only limited contact until tempers have cooled down a little. Here, we've got a community of over a hundred species all unified in their utter hatred of someone else.

Except for the dozen or so that we have to keep away from one another for various reasons. And it's not always pre-existing conflicts; some species get freaked out by people who look like things that ate their ancestors.

"Illustres to Lantern Ragnar. How's she doing?"

"I suspect that she would pass muster as a Green Lantern."

"Ragnar."

"I understand what you meant about the green light being more difficult to use in a complex manner. Against our rawest recruits she can hold her own, but against those with a little more experience they can outmanoeuvre her with little difficulty. The incessant nattering of her ring doesn't help. It just serves to enrage her."

"We're getting rid of that ring soon enough."

"There seems little point in training her to use a weapon she isn't going to keep."

"She got exposed to illusions created by the Embodiment of Fear."

"Ah. She seeks to master a ring to master her fears." He nods. "I would like to accompany you when you go to confront it."

"Why?"

"I don't fear simple things like violence, pain or death. I am not even afraid of losing. But there are things I fear. Parallax would make me confront them and either overcome them or perish."

"From what I've seen, he'd just leave you in a state of fear indefinitely, unless killing you made someone else afraid."

"It is close enough."

"Alright then. You're welcome to come along, but I can't make any promises about Parallax's behaviour."

Our party descends into the Orange Lantern training area, various Lanterns making gestures of respect towards me and Hinon. The Green Lanterns get a few odd looks, but I guess they just assume that it's a diplomatic party of some sort. I recognise a number of Lanterns from N.E.M.O.'s newer member worlds, and one from Sereaven who is practicing basic shield constructs in a training area.

I link my ring to her with an orange arc.

"You. Come with us."

"Huh? Oh, yes, Ill-. Ah!"

The training plasma gun nails her with a low-energy bolt, causing a mild shock through her environmental shield.

"Illustres!"

Her personnel file flashes through my mind as we head towards the sparring area. Recent inductee, signed up because she genuinely believes that it's better to be with N.E.M.O. than wait for the Reach to exterminate them. Okay, and we gave her a ring because… Because Dox wanted a baseline for her species and it wasn't worth incorporating a single individual into L.E.G.I.O.N. or training someone as a Darkstar when they have no prior military experience. She's going to be working with their planetary defence force once she reaches the vaunted heights of 'basically competent'.

She falls in behind us, and Lantern Priest drifts over to her to make conversation.

"For what reason is the comic fool joining the mission?"

"Parallax will probably be targetting her homeworld. One of the policies of the Green Lantern Corps I firmly agree with is that a Lantern can't be ordered not to defend their homeworld."

"I trust that the Earth fares hearty and hale?"

Oh.

"No. Earth's been infected with something called 'Anti-Life' while an emissary of Darkseid tries to conquer it. I'm here because the Reach launched a major offensive and then this happened, but I'm going right back once we're done."

"Darkseid. A vile and vainglorious alien auto-idolater."

"A very powerful vile auto-idolater. I'm sorry, I should have sent you a message, but I thought that you were fully occupied and there's no solution you could enact more easily than people who were already there."

"Will the Earth fall?"

"Civilisation already fell. We had to divide the world into superhuman-ruled fiefs to shield the people from Darkseid's magic, and wherever Darkseid's avatar goes people are compelled to obey. The only mercy is that he has trouble projecting it."

"Dire tidings indeed."

He's probably the most powerful option for green, but I suspect that a balance of power in all seven would be more important that the raw power of each individually. He might be able to force the Anti-Life out on his own, but I remember what Priest was saying about one will overriding others, and while he'd be a better master than Mannheim I'd rather avoid that problem.

"I am entity Volthoom. Opponent is attempting to hit you."

"What..? Manner of strangeness..?"

Malvolio frowns as he strides forwards towards a viewing platform.

"I am entity Volthoom. Opponent has hit you."

"I know."

"It's either a bug in the auto-charge system, or the constant irritation is designed to train the user to ignore distractions."

In the arena below us two Orange Lanterns spar with Jade, one with construct armour and a construct hammer while the other has a construct railgun and is taking shots at her. Rubber-tipped rounds, but they'll still hurt if they hit.

Jade's got construct barriers, one moving to block shots and the other holding back in case of sudden surprises. The melee Lantern she's avoiding by using her exo-mantle's flight system, maser shots causing ripples across the construct armour covering his face.

Ring? Ah. Not powerful enough to penetrate. But Jade's doing well to stay out of his reach.

"An assassin, trained to evade and sneak. Those lessons will not serve her well with a emerald ring."

"Feel free to step in. We can-."

My ring blinks.

"Excuse me. Yes?"

Dox's face appears. "Parallax has appeared."

I nod. "Sereaven? Or-?"

"Yaolsan."

I frown, needing the ring to tell me where that world is.

"Ah…" Nothing really sticks out about it. "What's on Yaolsan?"

"A regional fleet base, and our new media relations headquarters. I can't tell for certain why he's prioritising it-."

"It doesn't matter. He's here, we have to defend. I'll get going right away."

Darko · Feb 22, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
Malvolio looks around Maltus with an air of puzzled curiosity. His response to the various warring stellar nations in his sector has been to send them to their corners, allowing only limited contact until tempers have cooled down a little

Nice start, but far from a permanent solution.

Mr Zoat said:
"I understand what you meant about the green light being more difficult to use in a complex manner. Against our rawest recruits she can hold her own, but against those with a little more experience they can outmanoeuvre her with little difficulty

She's just started using the ring, so give her a break.

Mr Zoat said:
I don't fear simple things like violence, pain or death. I am not even afraid of losing. But there are things I fear. Parallax would make me confront them and either overcome them or perish

I'm guessing he fears losing dishonorably, being forgotten by history etc.

Mr Zoat said:
causing a milt shock through

"a mild"

Mr Zoat said:
"A very powerful vile auto-idolater. I'm sorry, I should have sent you a message, but I thought that you were fully occupied and there's no solution you could enact more easily than people who were already there

He is an extremely skilled Lantern, so he may have helped with the more exotic problems.

Mr Zoat said:
It's either bug in the

"a bug"

Mr Zoat said:
"It's either bug in the auto-charge system, or the constant irritation is designed to train the user to ignore distractions

Maybe the user is supposed to develop enough willpower to crush Volthoom and the ring is so annoying so that the user has ample motivation.

Mr Zoat said:
An assassin, trained to evade and sneak. Those lessons will not serve her well with a emerald ring."

Yeah, yellow may be better for that.

Mr Zoat said:
"A regional fleet base, and our new media relations headquarters. I can't tell for certain why he's prioritising it-

If there's a media system there then he can potentially show anyone watching as he destroys the local fleet.

That's likely to get a lot of people terrified.

BR549 · Feb 22, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"A regional fleet base, and our new media relations headquarters. I can't tell for certain why he's prioritising it-."

You just answered your own question, Dox - Parallax Alter wants to meet the press.

Or rather, for the press to meet him.

Also five will get you ten Malvolio is going to yoink Volthoom right out of the ring and strangle him as an affont to good manners.

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2023

Darko said:
"a mild"
"a bug"

Thank you, corrected.

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 22, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
20th January 2013
19:06 GMT

Malvolio looks around Maltus with an air of puzzled curiosity. His response to the various warring stellar nations in his sector has been to send them to their corners, allowing only limited contact until tempers have cooled down a little. Here, we've got a community of over a hundred species all unified in their utter hatred of someone else.

Except for the dozen or so that we have to keep away from one another for various reasons. And it's not always pre-existing conflicts; some species get freaked out by people who look like things that ate their ancestors.

Yeah, some old instincts die hard. Especially with some of the more exotic designs DC artists gave various Lantern Corps members during the War of Light era. And especially in the more 'villainous' Corps.

"Illustres to Lantern Ragnar. How's she doing?"

"I suspect that she would pass muster as a Green Lantern."

A rookie Green, no doubt.

"Ragnar."

"I understand what you meant about the green light being more difficult to use in a complex manner. Against our rawest recruits she can hold her own, but against those with a little more experience they can outmanoeuvre her with little difficulty. The incessant nattering of her ring doesn't help. It just serves to enrage her."

Which would actively hurt her. Probably why it does it... Training!

"We're getting rid of that ring soon enough."

"There seems little point in training her to use a weapon she isn't going to keep."

You never needed to reassure yourself of something after a bad emotional moment?

"She got exposed to illusions created by the Embodiment of Fear."

"Ah. She seeks to master a ring to master her fears." He nods. "I would like to accompany you when you go to confront it."

At least he's wise enough to recognise the why.

"Why?"

"I don't fear simple things like violence, pain or death. I am not even afraid of losing. But there are things I fear. Parallax would make me confront them and either overcome them or perish."

Do keep in mind that overwhelming Fear will cut off your Avarice, and leave you extra-vulnerable...

"From what I've seen, he'd just leave you in a state of fear indefinitely, unless killing you made someone else afraid."

"It is close enough."

And gee, who could fear Ragnar dying, hmm?

"Alright then. You're welcome to come along, but I can't make any promises about Parallax's behaviour."

Our party descends into the Orange Lantern training area, various Lanterns making gestures of respect towards me and Hinon. The Green Lanterns get a few odd looks, but I guess they just assume that it's a diplomatic party of some sort. I recognise a number of Lanterns from N.E.M.O.'s newer member worlds, and one from Sereaven who is practicing basic shield constructs in a training area.

Ooh. Thinking of getting her in on this? Her Avarice would rise knowing her homeworld is at risk...

I link my ring to her with an orange arc.

"You. Come with us."

And yes, he is. Let's hope this is a good idea, OL. How well-trained is she?

"Huh? Oh, yes, Ill-. Ah!"

The training plasma gun nails her with a low-energy bolt, causing a milt shock through her environmental shield.

"Illustres!"

...Oh, she's doomed, isn't she?

Her personnel file flashes through my mind as we head towards the sparring area. Recent inductee, signed up because she genuinely believes that it's better to be with N.E.M.O. than wait for the Reach to exterminate them. Okay, and we gave her a ring because… Because Dox wanted a baseline for her species and it wasn't worth incorporating a single individual into L.E.G.I.O.N. or training someone as a Darkstar when they have no prior military experience. She's going to be working with their planetary defence force once she reaches the vaulted heights of 'basically competent'.

And when it's Ragnar making that judgement, that's quite a challenge.

She falls in behind us, and Lantern Priest drifts over to her to make conversation.

"For what reason is the comic fool joining the mission?"

Now, now, Malvolio. Surely you weren't instantly an absolute master of every skill you tried to learn? Be nice.

"Parallax will probably be targetting her homeworld. One of the policies of the Green Lantern Corps I firmly agree with is that a Lantern can't be ordered not to defend their homeworld."

"I trust that the Earth fares hearty and hale?"

...Ah. He hasn't been told, has he? No reason to, after all...

Oh.

"No. Earth's been infected with something called 'Anti-Life' while an emissary of Darkseid tries to conquer it. I'm here because the Reach launched a major offensive and then this happened, but I'm going right back once we're done."

It all just pours down at once...

"Darkseid. A vile and vainglorious alien auto-idolater."

"A very powerful vile auto-idolater. I'm sorry, I should have sent you a message, but I thought that you were fully occupied and there's no solution you could enact more easily than people who were already there."

I take he remembers that name from his old Ring's databases, eh?

"Will the Earth fall?"

"Civilisation already fell. We had to divide the world into superhuman-ruled fiefs to shield the people from Darkseid's magic, and wherever Darkseid's avatar goes people are compelled to obey. The only mercy is that he has trouble projecting it."

...Boy, that's going to be... A sight to see when you get back to Earth...

"Dire tidings indeed."

He's probably the most powerful option for green, but I suspect that a balance of power in all seven would be more important that the raw power of each individually. He might be able to force the Anti-Life out on his own, but I remember what Priest was saying about one will overriding others, and while he'd be a better master than Mannheim I'd rather avoid that problem.

And at least he would be willing to let go if asked.

"I am entity Volthoom. Opponent is attempting to hit you."

"What..? Manner of strangeness..?"

Surprised there wasn't a link to a video of Clippy there.

But then, that might trigger PTSD for some people...

Malvolio frowns as he strides forwards towards a viewing platform.

"I am entity Volthoom. Opponent has hit you."

"I know."

That verbal tic... That must really get annoying.

"It's either bug in the auto-charge system, or the constant irritation is designed to train the user to ignore distractions."

In the arena below us two Orange Lanterns spar with Jade, one with construct armour and a construct hammer while the other has a construct railgun and is taking shots at her. Rubber-tipped rounds, but they'll still hurt if they hit.

And Jade won't have as easy a time healing as they will. So she's going to have to put up with the bruises... Nothing new for her, I suspect.

Jade's got construct barriers, one moving to block shots and the other holding back in case of sudden surprises. The melee Lantern she's avoiding by using her exo-mantle's flight system, maser shots causing ripples across the construct armour covering his face.

Ring? Ah. Now powerful enough to penetrate. But Jade's doing well to stay out of his reach.

Still, getting shot in the face will still make you flinch, not matter how tough you are. Unless you've trained yourself not to...

"An assassin, trained to evade and sneak. Those lessons will not serve her well with a emerald ring."

"Feel free to step in. We can-."

Yeah, she likely needs a steadier hand with the Green Light.

My ring blinks.

"Excuse me. Yes?"

Dox's face appears. "Parallax has appeared."

Welp, no time for a training montage.

I nod. "Sereaven? Or-?"

"Yaolsan."

Where the fook is that?

I frown, needing the ring to tell me where that world is.

"Ah…" Nothing really sticks out about it. "What's on Yaolsan?"

Interesting... Is it a world of particularly fearful people?

"A regional fleet base, and our new media relations headquarters. I can't tell for certain why he's prioritising it-."

"It doesn't matter. He's here, we have to defend. I'll get going right away."

...Let me guess. Parallax has gotten some clever ideas from Harrolds' memories, hasn't it?

What's the bet Harallax is going to use the media relations site's communications systems to broadcast a message to all of NEMO, basically planting the seeds of fear in their minds? Making allied worlds doubt their benefactors can keep them safe? And then when they turn up in person, those seeds will bloom into delicious terror that they'll feast on?

Ah. Now powerful enough to penetrate.

Ah. Not powerful enough to penetrate.

Vaermina · Feb 22, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"A regional fleet base, and our new media relations headquarters. I can't tell for certain why he's prioritising it-."

"It doesn't matter. He's here, we have to defend. I'll get going right away."

Here we have two people who are supposed to be smart.

But very much aren't.

Duke Long · Feb 22, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
She's going to be working with their planetary defence force once she reaches the vaulted heights of 'basically competent'.

'vaulted' might be intended, but did you mean 'vaunted'?

BR549 · Feb 22, 2023

Duke Long said:
'vaulted' might be intended, but did you mean 'vaunted'?

I think 'vaulted heights' is a Britishism; James Roberts used it as a descriptor in his Transformers writing for instance.

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Ah. Not powerful enough to penetrate.

Duke Long said:
'vaulted' might be intended, but did you mean 'vaunted'?

Thank you, corrected.

Duke Long · Feb 22, 2023

BR549 said:
I think 'vaulted heights' is a Britishism; James Roberts used it as a descriptor in his Transformers writing for instance.

I'm not familiar with Transformers, but I think James Roberts might have been making a pun, given that those 'vaulted heights' are an actual location while 'vaunted heights' are usually metaphorical.
Also, I am British, albeit Scottish so there probably are many 'Britishisms' that I'm not familiar with given that England has the majority of the population.

Darko · Feb 22, 2023

Chojin Patriarch said:
Now, now, Malvolio. Surely you weren't instantly an absolute master of every skill you tried to learn? Be nice.

He actually may have been.

Remember that this is the guy that was able to suppress the communication system of his ring when the Guardians called him shortly after he killed his dad.

Chojin Patriarch said:
What's the bet Harallax is going to use the media relations site's communications systems to broadcast a message to all of NEMO, basically planting the seeds of fear in their minds? Making allied worlds doubt their benefactors can keep them safe? And then when they turn up in person, those seeds will bloom into delicious terror that they'll feast on?

I'd say fairly high.

I'm actually reminded of that time In Dragon Ball when Piccolo, the first one the unique one, held a lottery on TV to see which city he'd destroy.

Mr Zoat · Feb 22, 2023

Darko said:
He actually may have been.

Remember that this is the guy that was able to suppress the communication system of his ring when the Guardians called him shortly after he killed his dad.

True, but he's rather poor at billiards.

Rafin · Feb 22, 2023

Since when is Hinon's speech pure orange? It wasn't before, except whenever she talked through Paul's ring during phone calls. Including after the Orange Central Power Battery was created and inhabited by the Ophidian iirc.

Lord Ernest · Feb 22, 2023

Rafin said:
Since when is Hinon's speech pure orange? It wasn't before, except whenever she talked through Paul's ring during phone calls. Including after the Orange Central Power Battery was created and inhabited by the Ophidian iirc.

She, and the other Controllers, have had orange speech since they connected themselves to the Orange Central Power Battery. Same way the Guardians have green speech because they're connected tp their Central Power Battery.

Maybe you mistook some of the face to face conversations the Illustres has had with her as being through the ring?

Mr Zoat · Feb 23, 2023

6 573 938.M41

"…the faster than light system, as well as basic defensive and offensive constructs. But…"

But Kais might be a natural monat, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the sort of mental attitude that using a power ring requires. But he doesn't have the avaricious attitude that an orange ring requires.

"But he struggles to go beyond the basics, especially under stress. Last time he attempted to tow a ship at faster than light speed, it… It didn't work. He flat out can't use the assimilation feature. At the moment we've eased off because it was getting self-defeating. And he.. has become an excellent stealth suit pilot."

The Shas'O looks imperiously unimpressed.

"That is not his role. If Shas'ul Kais is unable to learn the techniques required, why have you not requested a new student?"

"Because the-" I gesture to the horseshoe with my right hand. "-tau are very good at cultural indoctrination. Which is a good thing most of the time, but means that when you encounter a situation that requires a different mindset, it doesn't exist. Kais's focus on monat style fighting -even without a battlesuit- means that he has the independent mindset required. I have briefly experimented with other tau, and they can barely make the ring glimmer. If Kais doesn't work out then I'll have to try fire warriors suffering from battlesuit psychosis, and I don't think that will go well for anyone."

"Explain."

"The ring requires-. Power rings require a particular emotion in order to make them work. Orange rings require avarice, and… For self-evident reasons, selfish desires don't mesh well with the tau'va. I manage it by… Essentially, feeling very possessive of the individuals around me and the Empire in general. Tau are encouraged from birth not to do that. With Kais, Tsua'm, Bo'ohk and I are having to help him unlearn his entire indoctrination."

"Who designed this weapon?"

"I am sorry, Shas'O, but I have no idea. The design appears to match that of a device that appeared in the fiction of my era, but no species I have on record have built anything like it in reality. It isn't impossible that it was built by the pre-Age of Isolation human civilisation, and that there's a… Planet-sized machine somewhere doing the heavy lifting because someone wanted a real version of a tool they read about…"

The Fio'O twitches. "Human civilisation was that advanced?"

"I don't know. There aren't that many examples of technology from that era left around the place, and there aren't even good records of what the civilisation was like. From the examples there are… Maybe. I'm suggesting it as a possibility, not suggesting that it's likely. We were never as advanced as, say, the eldar. But… For example, we only needed to create the Astronomican after the Age of Isolation."

"Before that, there was another system?"

"That is the logical deduction, though I have no direct knowledge of it. Navigators and Gellar fields are older, which suggests that we used warp travel with some sort of beacon system, but that's supposition on my part."

Aun'Va taps his staff on the ground. "Shas'O, continue your questioning."

The Fio'O makes a gesture of apology to his colleague for the diversion, who makes the smallest gesture of acceptance he can manage.

"What other alternatives have you considered for finding alternate ring users?"

"A member of the Water Caste might have the necessary flexibility to more easily learn a new way of thinking, but they would lack the instincts to use it in combat. A member of the Air Caste might have an easier time towing a fleet, but… The Air Caste approach to combat is mathematical. Which is perfect for warships, but will not serve for a tool that requires an emotion. The other alternative would be a 'vesa of some sort, but I've got no idea where I'd find an outstanding candidate who could be trusted with it. As-."

I suppose he might not be able to understand. But he's sitting within staff range of Aun'Va, who I'm sure can explain it to him.

"As I'm sure that you can understand, selfless devotion to the Greater Good and a burning desire to acquire things for yourself are usually mutually contradictory drives."

A Shas'El comes forward at a gesture from the Shas'O, and a whispered conversation takes place. The Shas'El then makes a gesture of acknowledgement before turning and leaving the room by the rear exit.

"We have undertaken detailed psychological screening of senior members of the T'au Fire Caste population. This will be made available to you."

"I will of course examine whatever you make available to me and, if I find anyone appropriate, interview them. My concern is that a field 'O or 'El won't really be able to spare the time from their usual duties in order to learn to use a tool as specific as a power ring. And… That if they're a borderline case on their psychological assessments already then trying to use the ring is only going to make things worse."

He briefly displays a disgruntled expression. "With only a single ring known to exist, it is impractical to perform wide scale tests in the efficacy of your methods. And removing you from the field for long enough to perform standardised tests over a significant part of the population would represent an unacceptable loss of performance."

I've seen the casualty figures in operations involving me when compared to equivalents. My peak damage output is greater and more precise than that of a medium sized fleet, and I'm a heck of a lot more agile. And I do like this line of reasoning, because I really don't want to give up the ring. It makes my life so much easier. I mean, sure, Tsua'm can speak reasonable English and I know that she's working on a translation program, but those things are so awkward compared to just… Not needing it. On the other hand, being able to take time off by handing it over to someone else definitely has advantages.

"My last subject of enquiry, then. Aun'Ul Bo'ohk. You have been exposed to a great deal of combat during your time working with P'ol, including an unusual number of-." His nasal cleft wrinkles. "-'reality deviations'. Our experience with young Ethereals shows that this is difficult for them to come to terms with. Similarly, the Fire Warriors that serve as part of your team are in the top one percent for repeated exposure to exotic phenomena. Have you noticed any additional examples of war madness, or other psychological disturbances?"

Bo'ohk hesitates for a moment.

"… No. As you ask, I realise how surprising that is. I think… Perhaps, it is the wider view that our Fire Warriors receive, the ability to… Instantly know the outcome of their action. Often, casualties are greatest when we simply do not understand the thing that the Tau Empire is fighting. With P'ol's knowledge, that is seldom the case. We… Once spoke of the Greater Good as an inevitable enlightenment that all intelligent life would naturally strive towards. I think that it is commonly acknowledged now that we overestimated the appeal of reason."

I find myself nodding. To put it mildly.

"It can be emotionally difficult to remember the difference between eventual victory and imminent victory. It is not reasonable to expect Fire Warriors constantly exposed to confusing and disorientating combat situations to maintain their equanimity, whereas Fire Warriors attached to our unit have more focused tasks, and spend proportionally smaller amounts of time in the field and are better informed of the nature of the exotic threats they may face. In the Imperium, gue'la soldiers are not informed of the nature of reality deviant threats, and face mental alteration or execution should they learn too much. For tau, with our lower affinity for warp phenomena, we decided that ensuring that our stealth teams are as informed as possible was likely to result in a superior outcome."

"Are these procedures something that can be implemented over a wider scale?"

"Education can be expanded. There has been a desire amongst my Caste-" He doesn't look at Aun'Va. "-to reduce the universe to purely physical, material processes. Orderly processes. While this has worked to banish superstition, it has meant that when we encounter 'magic' and 'daemons' as they really exist, our instinct is to look for another explanation. It has been apparent for some time that the existence of the warp and its associated phenomena demonstrates that this approach is lacking, and our reaction to that… Inconvenient truth, has been slow. I think it is because it is an idea contrary to our epistemology, an almost 'heretical' idea."

"Our belief in the Greater Good is not the same as the gue'la's faith in their Emperor."

"No. The Greater Good is a philosophical ideal, not a man or psyker or god who physically exists in the universe or as energy in the warp. But it serves the same role in our lives, in that it gives us a purpose beyond them. I believe that it would be possible to expand our instructional practices to reflect our knowledge about warp creatures without creating a moral hazard."

The Shas'O makes a gesture of acknowledgement and dismissal, and it's the Fio'O's turn.

KaiKolo · Feb 23, 2023

Paul is very lucky that this isn't a universe where he was given a Red Lantern Ring.

Avarice isn't the safest thing to be powered by in the WH40K universe but it's still much more preferable than being powered by blood and rage. You don't want to attract the attention of Khorne under any circumstance.

I could see an alternate Red Lantern Paul be stuck in the never ending gore and strife of Khorne's domain in the Warp, twisting and mutating until he's no different from the demons around him.

Vaermina · Feb 23, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
"I don't know. There aren't that many examples of technology from that era left around the place, and there aren't even good records of what the civilisation was like. From the examples there are… Maybe. I'm suggesting it as a possibility, not suggesting that it's likely. We were never as advanced as, say, the eldar. But… For example, we only needed to create the Astronomican after the Age of Isolation."

Actually Golden Age humanity was more technologically advanced then the Eldar.

The Eldar were just more psychically advanced.

Mr Zoat said:
I've seen the casualty figures in operations involving me when compared to equivalents. My peak damage output is greater and more precise that than of medium sized fleets, and I'm a heck of a lot more agile. And I do like this line of reasoning, because I really don't want to give up the ring. It makes my life so much easier. I mean, sure, Tsua'm can speak reasonable English and I know that she's working on a translation program, but those things are so awkward compared to just… Not needing it. On the other hand, being able to take time off by handing it over to someone else definitely has advantages.

The moment the Tau find someone other then you who is loyal and can actually use that Ring you're dead.

Whenever Possible · Feb 23, 2023

Vaermina said:
The moment the Tau find someone other then you who is loyal and can actually use that Ring you're dead.

This setting has T'au as depicted in early editions, which is a bit less dark than what they get later. Also, presumably P'ol could see that desire in the Ethereals when meeting them if they actually wanted him fully dealt with.

Razorfloss · Feb 23, 2023

Just a heads up at their peak pre dark age humanity was just as if not more advanced than the elder. They just had magic and warp fuckery that evened the playing field. Humanity's standard equipment was what the league of votann normally use.

KyleDaScourge · Feb 23, 2023

Whenever Possible said:
Also, presumably P'ol could see that desire in the Ethereals when meeting them if they actually wanted him fully dealt with.

Not arguing with the first bit, but could he see their intent/desire to be rid of him? This version doesn't seem to be enlightened.

Handlewithcare · Feb 23, 2023

Ah! Reasonability in 40K! Heresy!

(Good job, P'ol, keep it up)

Silverias · Feb 23, 2023

KaiKolo said:
Paul is very lucky that this isn't a universe where he was given a Red Lantern Ring.

Avarice isn't the safest thing to be powered by in the WH40K universe but it's still much more preferable than being powered by blood and rage. You don't want to attract the attention of Khorne under any circumstance.

I could see an alternate Red Lantern Paul be stuck in the never ending gore and strife of Khorne's domain in the Warp, twisting and mutating until he's no different from the demons around him.

What, you think Slaanesh isn't constantly eyefucking WHOL?

Chojin Patriarch · Feb 23, 2023

Mr Zoat said:
6 573 938.M41

"…the faster than light system, as well as basic defensive and offensive constructs. But…"

But Kais might be a natural monat, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the sort of mental attitude that using a power ring requires. But he doesn't have the avaricious attitude that an orange ring requires.

Outside of a natural desire to not die, anyway. Honestly, unless P'Aul can work out how to make rings, it's going to be a moot point anyway. There's only one Ring right now, and only one person able to use it effectively, whatever Kais can manage. All they can do is make contingencies.

"But he struggles to go beyond the basics, especially under stress. Last time he attempted to tow a ship at faster than light speed, it… It didn't work. He flat out can't use the assimilation feature. At the moment we've eased off because it was getting self-defeating. And he.. has become an excellent stealth suit pilot."

The Shas'O looks imperiously unimpressed.

Probably the nature of the Monat mindset. The Lone Hunter. The Lonely Wanderer. The Solo Watcher. While these things lend themselves to a warrior of independent and intuitive responses, it doesn't make for a good team player with a strong sense of community.

"That is not his role. If Shas'ul Kais is unable to learn the techniques required, why have you not requested a new student?"

"Because the-" I gesture to the horseshoe with my right hand. "-tau are very good at cultural indoctrination. Which is a good thing most of the time, but means that when you encounter a situation that requires a different mindset, it doesn't exist. Kais's focus on monat style fighting -even without a battlesuit- means that he has the independent mindset required. I have briefly experimented with other tau, and they can barely make the ring glimmer. If Kais doesn't work out then I'll either have to try fire warriors suffering from battlesuit psychosis, and I don't think that will go well for anyone."

...Yeah, people stuck in a state of battle madness. I don't see that going well, especially if they can make the Ring work for them.

"Explain."

"The ring requires-. Power rings require a particular emotion in order to make them work. Orange rings require avarice, and… For self-evident reasons, selfish desires don't mesh well with the tau'va. I manage it by… Essentially, feeling very possessive of the individuals around me and the Empire in general. Tau are encouraged from birth not to do that. With Kais, Tsua'm, Bo'ohk and I are having to help him unlearn his entire indoctrination."

So 'designing' a tau capable of doing this might well require engineering one from scratch. A Sixth Caste, as it were. I don't see them wanting to take that step...

"Who designed this weapon?"

"I am sorry, Shas'O, but I have no idea. The design appears to match that of a device that appeared in the fiction of my era, but no species I have on record have built anything like it in reality. It isn't impossible that it was built by the pre-Age of Isolation human civilisation, and that there's a… Planet-sized machine somewhere doing the heavy lifting because someone wanted a real version of a tool they read about…"

Hey, have you seen some of the archaeotech that's shown up? Some of them might even be capable of replicating some of the Ring's effects.

The Fio'O twitches. "Human civilisation was that advanced?"

"I don't know. There aren't that many examples of technology from that era left around the place, and there aren't even good records of what the civilisation was like. From the examples there are… Maybe. I'm suggesting it as a possibility, not suggesting that it's likely. We were never as advanced as, say, the eldar. But… For example, we only needed to create the Astronomican after the Age of Isolation."

And there's always the other species. Jokaero, for example. Compared to some, Maltusian tech is merely more compact for what it can do...

"Before that, there was another system?"

"That is the logical deduction, though I have no direct knowledge of it. Navigators and Gellar fields are older, which suggests that we used warp travel with some sort of beacon system, but that's supposition on my part."

But reasonable supposition. Maybe a whole network of lighthouse-like waypoints, that the Navigators could differentiate...

Aun'Va taps his staff on the ground. "Shas'O, continue your questioning."

The Fio'O makes a gesture of apology to his colleague for the diversion, who makes the smallest gesture of acceptance he can manage.

"What other alternatives have you considered for finding alternate ring users?"

Heh. Even when they're supposed to be working together, there's still some personal feelings, I see.

"A member of the Water Caste might have the necessary flexibility to more easily learn a new way of thinking, but they would lack the instincts to use it in combat. A member of the Air Caste might have an easier time towing a fleet, but… The Air Caste approach to combat is mathematical. Which is perfect for warships, but will not serve for a tool that requires an emotion. The other alternative would be a 'vesa of some sort, but I've got no idea where I'd find an outstanding candidate who could be trusted with it. As-."

Though I suspect the leadership would prefer not to have to trust it to an alien.

I suppose he might not be able to understand. But he's sitting within staff range of Aun'Va, who I'm sure can explain it to him.

"As I'm sure that you can understand, selfless devotion to the Greater Good and a burning desire to acquire things for yourself are usually mutually contradictory drives."

Well, they're supposed to be, anyway. Some could get them muddled in nasty ways...

A Shas'El comes forward at a gesture from the Shas'O, and a whispered conversation takes place. The Shas'El then makes a gesture of acknowledgement before turning and leaving the room by the rear exit.

"We have undertaken detailed psychological screening of senior members of the T'au Fire Caste population. This will be made available to you."

Though I suspect said profiles will favour the steady and solidly 'acceptable' members, rather than the sort of misfits that would be useful.

"I will of course examine whatever you make available to me and, if I find anyone appropriate, interview them. My concern is that a field 'O or 'El won't really be able to spare the time from their usual duties in order to learn to use a tool as specific as a power ring. And… That if they're a borderline case on their psychological assessments already then trying to use the ring is only going to make things worse."

He briefly displays a disgruntled expression. "With only a single ring known to exist, it is impractical to perform wide scale tests in the efficacy of your methods. And removing you from the field for long enough to perform standardised test over a significant part of the population would represent an unacceptable loss of performance."

Especially since such tests may result in someone going full Larfleeze. Since P'Aul's skills aren't nearly developed enough to remotely killswitch the Ring...

I've seen the casualty figures in operations involving me when compared to equivalents. My peak damage output is greater and more precise that than of medium sized fleets, and I'm a heck of a lot more agile. And I do like this line of reasoning, because I really don't want to give up the ring. It makes my life so much easier. I mean, sure, Tsua'm can speak reasonable English and I know that she's working on a translation program, but those things are so awkward compared to just… Not needing it. On the other hand, being able to take time off by handing it over to someone else definitely has advantages.

I'll bet it does. But the question is, why would they allow you to have it back? And that feeds back into the 'I want to be special' desire.

"My last subject of enquiry, then. Aun'Ul Bo'ohk. You have been exposed to a great deal of combat during your time working with P'ol, including an unusual number of-." His nasal cleft wrinkles. "-'reality deviations'. Our experience with young Ethereals shows that this is difficult for them to come to terms with. Similarly, the Fire Warriors that serve as part of your team are in the top one percent for repeated exposure to exotic phenomena. Have you noticed any additional examples of war madness, or other psychological disturbances?"

In order words: Their team has seen some shit, but they haven't been fucked up by it like others were. Why?

Bo'ohk hesitates for a moment.

"… No. As you ask, I realise how surprising that is. I think… Perhaps, it is the wider view that our Fire Warriors receive, the ability to… Instantly know the outcome of their action. Often, casualties are greatest when we simply do not understand the thing that the Tau Empire is fighting. With P'ol's knowledge, that is seldom the case. We… Once spoke of the Greater Good as an inevitable enlightenment that all intelligent life would naturally strive towards. I think that it is commonly acknowledged now that we overestimated the appeal of reason."

Oof. I know they might all be aware of that, but to come out and say it right to the big guy's face...

I find myself nodding. To put it mildly.

"It can be emotionally difficult to remember the difference between eventual victory and imminent victory. It is not reasonable to expect Fire Warriors constantly exposed to confusing and disorientating combat situations to maintain their equanimity, whereas Fire Warriors attached to our unit have more focused tasks, and spend proportionally smaller amounts of time in the field and are better informed of the nature of the exotic threats they may face. In the Imperium, gue'la soldiers are not informed of the nature of reality deviant threats, and face mental alteration or execution should they learn too much. For tau, with our lower affinity for warp phenomena, we decided that ensuring that our stealth teams are as informed as possible was likely to result in a superior outcome."

So... Telling their soldiers about the kind of things they're likely to face actually lets them deal with the stress of it better.

Gee, what an amazing idea!

"Are these procedures something that can be implemented over a wider scale?"

"Education can be expanded. There has been a desire amongst my Caste-" He doesn't look at Aun'Va. "-to reduce the universe to purely physical, material processes. Orderly processes. While this has worked to banish superstition, it has meant that when we encounter 'magic' and 'daemons' as they really exist, our instinct is to look for another explanation. It has been apparent for some time that the existence of the warp and its associated phenomena demonstrates that this approach is lacking, and our reaction to that… Inconvenient truth, has been slow. I think it is because it is an idea contrary to our epistemology, an almost 'heretical' idea."

I remember that story of a Tau force fighting Slaanesh daemons and cultists and assuming the more exotic entities are simply an unusual alien race... From a White Dwarf not long after the original codex rolled out, I think...

"Our belief in the Greater Good is not the same as the gue'la's faith in their Emperor."

"No. The Greater Good is a philosophical ideal, not a man or psyker or god who physically exists in the universe or as energy in the warp. But it serves the same role in our lives, in that it gives us a purpose beyond them. I believe that it would be possible to expand our instructional practices to reflect our knowledge about warp creatures without creating a moral hazard."

The Shas'O makes a gesture of acknowledgement and dismissal, and it's the Fio'O's turn.

Be thankful their low warp presence makes belief in the Greater Good unlikely to spawn their own daemons...

Some interesting points raised, and some reasonable ideas put forwards to dealing with them. This really is the early era of the Tau Empire, isn't it... Back when they were rational and sensible folks capable of adapting from their experiences with the other races of the Galaxy, instead of doubling down on the grim-derp stupidity...

With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

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