With This Ring (Young Justice SI) (Thread Fourteen)

[Bud-E]

I swear, if Tetch is wandering around with a different face or something after a New God-technology-induced transformation... That would actually be fascinating. Would he have powers now, some kind of mind-control power or the like? Or be transformed into an even more aesthetically accurate match for the Mad Hatter of Alice fame? I wonder...

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With the Penguin being no longer disabled by Paul, Mad Hatter being transformed by New-God tech, and Ivy working with Eurathane and the Accala, it looks like all of Batman's villains are getting a glow-up.

 

[Darko]

When did you fully become a New God?"

"On New Genesis, where I would be free of such things."

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When did Canis go to New Genesis?

I remember that he abducted Dreamer because he wanted to learn about New Genesian art, but not that he went there.

Though I remember that he once mentioned that several Apokaliptian forces attacked some New Genesis territory by focusing on a weak area that wasn't covered that much by Izaya's power, so it may be that.

 

[Mr Zoat]

I had not previously heard of Batman: Odyssey. I was going to ask someone for a summary, then I read an article where Neal Adams (the author) said that he couldn't summarise it.

When did Canis go to New Genesis?

Though I remember that he once mentioned that several Apokaliptian forces attacked some New Genesis territory by focusing on a weak area that wasn't covered that much by Izaya's power, so it may be that.

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Yes. It was after he apparently killed his father, took his armour and then led his soldiers on a raid.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

I had not previously heard of Batman: Odyssey. I was going to ask someone for a summary, then I read an article where Neal Adams (the author) said that he couldn't summarise it.

Yes. It was after he apparently killed his father, took his armour and then led his soldiers on a raid.

Click to shrink...

You've never heard of Batman: Odyssey? It's a strong contender for being the most insane and nonsensical Batman story ever written. Just to give you an idea, it's where this infamous panel came from:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/outofcontextcomics/comments/1jawqac/batgangsta/

And guess what? This is actually one of the least batshit crazy moments in the story. The further you read, the crazier it gets.

 

[Cuchulin]

Wait a second…are referencing Batman: Odyssey?

OH MY GOD, IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW! No wonder Bruce has been acting batshit crazy! He's been replaced by the one version of himself that can give Frank Miller Batman a run for his money in the lunacy department: NEAL ADAMS BATMAN!

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Please explain for those who haven't read Batman: Odyssey.

 

[Old Knife]

Please explain for those who haven't read Batman: Odyssey.

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it's the one that turned joker from joke/gag villain to OMG! HORROR FUEL joker.

It's the one where batman and Al Ras Ghul had a naked swordfight.

It introduced Al Ras Ghul.

It's when Two face's coin fell on its side.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

Please explain for those who haven't read Batman: Odyssey.

Click to shrink...

it's the one that turned joker from joke/gag villain to OMG! HORROR FUEL joker.

It's the one where batman and Al Ras Ghul had a naked swordfight.

It introduced Al Ras Ghul.

It's when Two face's coin fell on its side.

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Okay, you two. Let me explain a few things:

No, @Old Knife, those aren't the story I'm talking about. Sure, Neal Adams wrote all that stuff, but that was all done way before he wrote Batman: Odyssey.

@Cuchulin, What you need to understand about Neal Adams is that back in his early years, he was still relatively sane, and he wrote a lot of good stories. But just like his fellow Batman writer Frank Miller, he eventually started descending into madness and his writing got more and more bizarre as time went on.

Although, Adams' brand of madness is quite different from Miller, because Adams just so happened to be a big believer in the Hollow Earth theory and all other kinds of weird nonsense like that, so when he got to write a Batman story where he was allowed to basically do whatever he wanted due to the lack of editorial restrictions (which he got to do because at the time, Adams had a lot of power and influence at DC), we got to see the true dephts of his madness, and that particular Batman story turned out so strange and crazy that it went down in infamy for being incredibly weird and insane, even by comic book standards.

Note that I'm not saying this to disparage Adams or dismissing his contributions to the Batman mythos, but I'm just saying, the guy has written some WEIRD shit in his time.

The story I'm talking about is this one.

 

[Cuchulin]

@Cuchulin, What you need to understand about Neal Adams is that back in his early years, he was still relatively sane, and he wrote a lot of good stories. But just like his fellow Batman writer Frank Miller, he eventually started descending into madness and his writing got more and more bizarre as time went on.
Although, Adams' brand of madness is quite different from Miller, because Adams just so happened to be a big believer in the Hollow Earth theory and all other kinds of weird nonsense like that, so when he got to write a Batman story where he was allowed to basically do whatever he wanted due to the lack of editorial restrictions (which he got to do because at the time, Adams had a lot of power and influence at DC), we got to see the true dephts of his madness, and that particular Batman story turned out so strange and crazy that it went down in infamy for being incredibly weird and insane, even by comic book standards.
Note that I'm not saying this to disparage Adams or dismissing his contributions to the Batman mythos, but I'm just saying, the guy has written some WEIRD shit in his time.
The story I'm talking about is this one.

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Well at least his madness is a lot more fun and far less offensive than Frank Miller's.

 

[Mr Zoat]

18th July 2013
12:28 GMT -5
Show Me Beauty
Canis stands with both hands pressed against the globe, eyes unfocused. I stand close by, waiting for him to get a better feeling for it.

"So why do you think Mannheim would make this?" Selina's standing close to Ted, and from the way that she's pulled her zipper down a little I think she's trying to keep his attention. Which is a fool's errand, because as much as Ted likes women he likes intellectual puzzles more.

Fortunately, that question relates to the puzzle. "I'm trying to work that out myself. He had effective control of the whole world. It could be something to do with that, but the marks chart the control mechanisms he already had without giving him any more. It could be for making some sort of monster, but he already had Finality Man and all of the Justified superheroes he captured. And he could bring in more from Apokolips itself, like all those robots he used against Kahndaq. Paul?"

"Darkseid's trying to brute force more Anti-Life fragments. My guess was that he was experimenting with some new type of corruption on someone or something inside."

He nods. "That sounds logical. S-. Ah. Catwoman?"

"To people like that, there's no such thing as too many giant monsters. Which is now living under Gotham somewhere."

"Do you have Mister Jones' phone number?"

Selina looks at me like I'm an idiot. "Paul, how would he even hold a phone?"

"Lantern." Canis blinks hard, shaking his head. "What did you do to this device?"

"I interfaced with the desires associated with it."

"You have-. It is as if you have sprayed bright orange paint over a classical portrait."

"Oh. Ah. Sorry. I could probably remove that-."

"No, that would remove everything."

Ted makes a gesture of appeal. "Did you get anything? What did-?"

"It is made to cause a metamorphosis of some sort. Someone is placed inside and their nature is changed. After their failure with Dreamer and the other Forever People, perhaps Darkseid felt that a more sophisticated approach was necessary."

"So who went inside? And… When?"

Since it was located in a small room underground using alien metamaterials there's basically no way to calculate its age. The obvious time for it to have broken is five months ago when the life burst happened, but the desires I felt fairly clearly hadn't been influenced by that. Does that imply it was broken before that?

"A mad seer. Someone disconnected from reality, who sees things that others do not."

Selina and I glance at each other for a moment.

"Would you recognise that person if you saw them again?"

"I have not seen this person before. But the association would be strong. Brut!" His dog perks up. "Scent!" "Find the form, boy."

Brut starts sniffing in earnest, prompting Selina to take a step back. "Would getting some of his old clothes help? I'm sure Arkham has them in their lockers."

Canis shakes his head. "No. Unless they were a magician, the smell of their souls would be too weak for Brut to track. We will be looking for the touch of Mannheim upon them."

Ted blinks. "You know who it was?"

"We've been looking for Jarvis Tetch." He looks blank. "The Mad Hatter. He's an Alice in Wonderland-obsessed madman. His usual modus operandi involved mind controlling and kidnapping young girls and having tea parties with them."

Ted looks uncomfortable. "When… You say… 'Tea parties'-?"

"I mean they drink tea and eat cakes. There have been deaths, but it's not because he was deliberately trying to kill them and more… Because he doesn't recognise that his fantasy isn't actually happening. But… That might be because Batman punches him out before he gets psychotically angry about them refusing to play along or wanting to go home."

Canis frowns. "Why does he wish for tea parties with children?"

"Because he's mad. His brain is broken, and he can't cope with actual reality and so projects a total fantasy onto the world around him. And when things don't conform to that fantasy, he… Can't cope. He can't understand it."

"But why does being mad make him drink tea with children?"

"Specifically? I don't know. Sometimes the human brain just fixates on things when it can't cope with the stress it's under. If I had to guess, it's because the book had happy associations from his childhood."

I look at Selina for further information, but she just shrugs. "Too old and not blonde enough. I'd have thought that your girlfriend would have been at more risk with her Cheshire Cat theme."

"The Mad Hatter didn't take tea with the Cheshire Cat."

I… Think. I only ever read Alice Through The Looking Glass, and that was a long time ago.

"He had henchmen named after the other characters."

"How did that work?"

"Badly, usually. Canis, do you have any idea what Mannheim would want with a delusional neurologist?"

Canis thinks for a moment. "You say that he is delusional?"

I generate a construct image of him, costume hat and all. Canis looks at it blankly-.

Right. Apokolips.

"Yes, he's delusional."

"Then it may be that Mannheim hoped to use his madness in some way. I have heard of devices which project disordered mental states. They are usually smaller."

"What if the range was supposed to be worldwide?"

Canis considers the device carefully.

"Perhaps, but I do not see the point. They were already under the influence of the Anti-Life. Making them mad as well…" He shakes his head.

Selina makes a beckoning motion with her right hand. "Any other ideas?"

"Mannheim was manipulating the arcane systems of this world, correct?" I nod. "Then it may be that he was attempting to use Mad Hatter to speed up that process with his altered perception."

Ted's jaw hangs open a little. "Huh?"

"With enough magic, and enough madness, a world already at one with the spirit of Darkseid and an avatar of Darkseid already present… Changing the nature of the physical world is possible." He shakes his head. "I have never been involved in such things, but I am aware that they can be done."

"And… Breaking out? Assuming that it was him?"

"Clearly, whatever it was Mannheim was trying to do did not work. Perhaps you prevented it when you expunged the Anti-Life, or perhaps it was already a failure by then. It hardly matters."

He turns away, a-

BOOM!

-tube opening.

"Come, Brut! We hunt!"

 

[BR549]

I had not previously heard of Batman: Odyssey. I was going to ask someone for a summary, then I read an article where Neal Adams (the author) said that he couldn't summarise it.

Yes. It was after he apparently killed his father, took his armour and then led his soldiers on a raid.

Click to shrink...

Please explain for those who haven't read Batman: Odyssey.

Click to shrink...

Behold.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIteyfOVqnQ

 

[Cool10007]

"Lantern." Canis blinks hard, shaking his head. "What did you do to this device?"

"I interfaced with the desires associated with it."

"You have-. It is as if you have sprayed bright orange paint over a classical portrait."

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No wonder he wasn't making any progress. Vandalism, Paul? For shame, smh.

 

[Vaermina]

"I interfaced with the desires associated with it."

"You have-. It is as if you have sprayed bright orange paint over a classical portrait."

Click to shrink...

That's about what I'd expect from Orange Lanterns usual investigative standards.

 

[Chojin Patriarch]

18th July 2013
12:28 GMT -5
Show Me Beauty
Canis stands with both hands pressed against the globe, eyes unfocused. I stand close by, waiting for him to get a better feeling for it.

"So why do you think Mannheim would make this?" Selina's standing close to Ted, and from the way that she's pulled her zipper down a little I think she's trying to keep his attention. Which is a fool's errand, because as much as Ted likes women he like intellectual puzzles more.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, to any other man (and some women,) that would be distracting. All that blood rushing from one head to the other, you know? Sadly, all the males present have other tastes or priorities.

Spoiler: Commentary spoilered for length

Fortunately, that question relates to the puzzle. "I'm trying to work that out myself. He had effective control of the whole world. It could be something to do with that, but the marks chart the control mechanisms he already had without giving him any more. It could be for making some sort of monster, but he already had Finality Man and all of the Justified superheroes he captured. And he could bring in more from Apokolips itself, like all those robots he used against Kahndaq. Paul?"

Click to shrink...

Good to see someone asked the question, at least. 'Why?' is an important factor here.

"Darkseid's trying to brute force more Anti-Life fragments. My guess was that he was experimenting with some new type of corruption on someone or something inside."

He nods. "That sounds logical. S-. Ah. Catwoman?"

Click to shrink...

Not used to using the 'made-up names', eh, Ted?

"To people like that, there's no such thing as too many giant monsters. Which is now living under Gotham somewhere."

"Do you have Mister Jones' phone number?"

Click to shrink...

...Honestly, Croc could be useful in searching the underground.

Selina looks at me like I'm an idiot. "Paul, how would he even hold a phone?"

"Lantern." Canis blinks hard, shaking his head. "What did you do to this device?"

Click to shrink...

Oh, Canis? An issue with it?

"I interfaced with the desires associated with it."

"You have-. It is as if you have sprayed bright orange paint over a classical portrait."

Click to shrink...

...Huh, maybe that's why some metaphysical sorts get a bit odd around him. It's like getting your godly senses doused with orange Fanta.

"Oh. Ah. Sorry. I could probably remove that-."

"No, that would remove everything."

Click to shrink...

Yeah, there's a reason art restoration, especially after stuff like defacement, is a hugely difficult and expensive process.

Ted makes a gesture of appeal. "Did you get anything? What did-?"

"It is made to cause a metamorphosis of some sort. Someone is placed inside and their nature is changed. After their failure with Dreamer and the other Forever People, perhaps Darkseid felt that a more sophisticated approach was necessary."

Click to shrink...

So I was on target with Nina Dowd, then. Though I doubt it turned Tetch into a ludicrously large-breasted catgirl. ...A Hare-boy, maybe?

"So who went inside? And… When?"

Since it was located in a small room underground using alien metamaterials there's basically no way to calculate its age. The obvious time for it to have broken is five months ago when the life burst happened, but the desires I felt fairly clearly hadn't been influenced by that. Does that imply it was broken before that?

Click to shrink...

I doubt it could have been protected from the White Light somehow. Every living thing has a connection to it.

"A mad seer. Someone disconnected from reality, who sees things that others do not."

Selina and I glance at each other for a moment.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that sounds like Tetch for sure.

"Would you recognise that person if you saw them again?"

"I have not seen this person before. But the association would be strong. Brut!" His dog perks up. "Scent!" "Find the form, boy."

Click to shrink...

Which helps, if Tetch did undergo any physical changes to match the spiritual ones.

Brut starts sniffing in earnest, prompting Selina to take a step back. "Would getting some of his old clothes help? I'm sure Arkham has them in their lockers."

Canis shakes his head. "No. Unless they were a magician, the smell of their souls would be too weak for Brut to track. We will be looking for the touch of Mannheim upon them."

Click to shrink...

And as some measure of canine demi-divinity, Brut can smell that stuff from across the planet, I bet.

Ted blinks. "You know who it was?"

"We've been looking for Jarvis Tetch." He looks blank. "The Mad Hatter. He's an Alice in Wonderland-obsessed madman. He usual modus operandi involved mind controlling and kidnapping young girls and having tea parties with them."

Ted looks uncomfortable. "When… You say… 'Tea parties'-?"

Click to shrink...

...Yeah, that does sound sort of bad out of context. Even in context, it's not great.

"I mean they drink tea and eat cakes. There have been deaths, but it's not because he was deliberately trying to kill them and more… Because he doesn't recognise that his fantasy isn't actually happening. But… That might be because Batman punches him out before he gets psychotically angry about them refusing to play along or wanting to go home."

Click to shrink...

I shudder at the thought of him ending up going too far because Batman got dragged into some other, bigger affair...

Canis frowns. "Why does he wish for tea parties with children?"

"Because he's mad. His brain is broken, and he can't cope with actual reality and so projects a total fantasy onto the world around him. And when things don't conform to that fantasy, he… Can't cope. He can't understand it."

Click to shrink...

Fortunately, he's not violent about it... Yet.

"But why does being mad make him drink tea with children?"

"Specifically? I don't know. Sometimes the human brain just fixates on things when it can't cope with the stress it's under. If I had to guess, it's because the book had happy associations from his childhood."

Click to shrink...

Which it does, if his wiki entry was anything to go by.

I look at Selina for further information, but she just shrugs. "Too old and not blonde enough. I'd have though that your girlfriend would have been at more risk with her Cheshire Cat theme."

"The Mad Hatter didn't take tea with the Cheshire Cat."

Click to shrink...

It appears several times, but never interacts with the Hatter. Merely nudges Alice towards him.

I… Think. I only ever read Alice Through The Looking Glass, and that was a long time ago.

"He had henchmen named after the other characters."

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Honestly, the group outlasted any association with him.

"How did that work?"

"Badly, usually. Canis, do you have any idea what Mannheim would want with a delusional neurologist?"

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Sadly, I don't think it was for the sake of some nasty art.

Canis thinks for a moment. "You say that he is delusional?"

I generate a construct image of him, costume hat and all. Canis looks at it blankly-.

Click to shrink...

And really, most of his look is just a slightly odd form of three-piece suit. Some odd choices of fabric patterns, and the Hat.

Right. Apokolips.

"Yes, he's delusional."

Click to shrink...

Indeed, New God fashion has a lot of strange choices, especially in the more Kirby-inspired forms.

"Then it may be that Mannheim hoped to use his madness in some way. I have heard of devices which project disordered mental states. They are usually smaller."

"What if the range was supposed to be worldwide?"

Click to shrink...

...And now I'm feeling a worrying link to the Atlantis warding stones. Could this have been a plan to crack Gamemnae's barrier?

Canis considers the device carefully.

"Perhaps, but I do not see the point. They were already under the influence of the Anti-Life. Making them mad as well…" He shakes his head.

Click to shrink...

And if that madness is destructive, it's wasteful.

Selina makes a beckoning motion with her right hand. "Any other ideas?"

"Mannheim was manipulating the arcane systems of this world, correct?" I nod. "Then it may be that he was attempting to use Mad Hatter to speed up that process with his altered perception."

Click to shrink...

Applying something of a 'We're all mad here' debuff to Humanity's mental resistance? Could work.

Ted's jaw hangs open a little. "Huh?"

"With enough magic, and enough madness, a world already at one with the spirit of Darkseid and an avatar of Darkseid already present… Changing the nature of the physical world is possible." He shakes his head. "I have never been involved in such things, but I am aware that they can be done."

Click to shrink...

...And that makes the fact they beat it all that more gratifying.

"And… Breaking out? Assuming that it was him?"

"Clearly, whatever it was Mannheim was trying to do did not work. Perhaps you preventing it when you expunged the Anti-Life, or perhaps it was already a failure by then. It hardly matters."

Click to shrink...

Or maybe it worked too well? It just hasn't expressed itself yet.

He turns away, a-

BOOM!

-tube opening.

"Come, Brut! We hunt!"

Click to shrink...

I guess we'll see when they find him.

And so the game is afoot. Or apaw in this case. A cat, two dogs and a snake, looking for a peculiar little man. It almost sounds like some inane scenario that would fit into Wonderland. Though any conceptual study Apokalips is getting into is a worrying concept in itself. Best to head off any follow-ups into it just to be safe.

 

[Ngamer11]

I look at Selina for further information, but she just shrugs. "Too old and not blonde enough. I'd have though that your girlfriend would have been at more risk with her Cheshire Cat theme."

Click to shrink...

That should say 'thought'.

 

[iamnuff]

... it wasn't Hatter in that egg, was it?

Question, where are you?

 

[Ardy]

... it wasn't Hatter in that egg, was it?

Question, where are you?

Click to shrink...

Question got free when the life wave hit, it was implied that whoever this is got out before that

 

[Darko]

He usual modus operandi

Click to shrink...

"His usual"

I'd have though that your girlfriend would have been at more risk with her Cheshire Cat theme."

Click to shrink...

Jade is not so easily captured.

Perhaps, but I do not see the point. They were already under the influence of the Anti-Life. Making them mad as well…" He shakes his head.

Click to shrink...

Maybe by making them insane it would be more difficult for them to fight the Anti-Life.

 

[Mr Zoat]

That should say 'thought'.

Click to shrink...

"His usual"

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[Duke Long]

"Clearly, whatever it was Mannheim was trying to do did not work. Perhaps you preventing it when you expunged the Anti-Life, or perhaps it was already a failure by then. It hardly matters."

Click to shrink...

'prevented'?

"What makes you think I know where he is?"

"Your contacts. I'm hopeful that you either know where he is or can be a big help in tracking him down." Huh. "Funny, really. Jade based her persona on the Cheshire Cat. I'm not sure that he'd actually recognise that unless it was pointed out to him… Does he go for the original book or the Disney film?"

"Well, he's crazy, so it could be either, but it's more likely to be neither."

"And I only ever read 'Through The Looking Glass'. And 'After Alice', but I doubt that counts."

Click to shrink...

I look at Selina for further information, but she just shrugs. "Too old and not blonde enough. I'd have thought that your girlfriend would have been at more risk with her Cheshire Cat theme."

"The Mad Hatter didn't take tea with the Cheshire Cat."

I… Think. I only ever read Alice Through The Looking Glass, and that was a long time ago.

Click to shrink...

I was struck by the similarity between these two excerpts. Not sure why I felt the need to share this.

 

[Silveraith]

as much as Ted likes women he like intellectual puzzles more.

Click to shrink...

Likes.

 

[Mr Zoat]

'prevented'?

Click to shrink...

Likes.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, corrected.

 

[AxelWackers]

So its definitely the Question who was in there right? Because I'd call him more of a 'Mad Seer' than Tetch

 

[Bud-E]

So its definitely the Question who was in there right? Because I'd call him more of a 'Mad Seer' than Tetch

Click to shrink...

I can see this being applied to the Question My only gripe with it is that Canis says it's someone disconnected from reality, and I don't think it truly applies to Sage.

 

[Vaermina]

I can see this being applied to the Question My only gripe with it is that Canis says it's someone disconnected from reality, and I don't think it truly applies to Sage.

Click to shrink...

The Question is also a conspiracy theorist.

 

[CrazyNoVa]

The Question is also a conspiracy theorist.

Click to shrink...

He needs to team up with Anarky. Maybe even take him on as a sidekick. Could you imagine the insane anti-authoritarian shenanigans they would get up to?

 

[Neruz]

The Question is also a conspiracy theorist.

Click to shrink...

More like a conspiracy factist really.

 

[Someguy Somewhere]

If it was the Hatter in there....um....Paul you're in a Comic Book / Cartoon Universe and have seen alternate universe versions of you from other forms of Fiction.

You have a 'madman' who is obsessed with a work of Fiction.

Anyone want to wonder about an alternative Paul that ended up in a book? Say 'Orange Lantern In Wonderland'?

 

[Mr Zoat]

Early Winter, IC 690

For all of their talents, the Romans were not good ship builders. I don't really know 'why'. Yes, Britain needed good ships to go anywhere, but Italy had an extensive coastline. My best guess is that it was because the people who were most likely to attack them were the German tribes who were landlocked and not technologically able. Even when they conquered England, I don't remember my own forebears meeting them at sea. Whereas the British Empire had to fight Spain and France at sea.

Prince Diabo hasn't been as involved in the shipbuilding project as he has in the gunpowder project, but even here Japan's knowledge is making itself felt.

I feel a moment of smugness for the actions of William Adams.

Or perhaps I should say 'knowledge we acquired via Japan'. Certainly, most of it is stuff that already existed in this ring's database, but no one would ever learn anything for themselves if they could just ask me for everything.

The hulls we built would be familiar to anyone familiar with Age of Sail ships, with the exception of the fact that they've got palisades to block enemy arrows and aren't designed with enemy cannonades in mind. Because no one else has cannons. Or muskets. The fact that we can close to much shorter distances without getting shot full of holes more than counterbalances the fact that the sailors don't have any experience in using cannons in combat. As with critics of the aerial and land portions of our work, a quick demonstration of the effectiveness of chain shot against masts and grapeshot against exposed decks was enough to convert them to our cause. The Empire's enemies are used to guarding against highly effective boarding actions, but they do so by mustering men-at-arms in tight formation to prevent marines from gaining a foothold. If they try that with these new ships, it would be a slaughter.

"But they're tiny!"

Giselle is walking around the wyverns attached to Prince Diabo's army, looking at them with obvious distain. It took them a little while to get used to Prince Diabo's dragon, but as far as I can tell the complete lack of hostility has meant that they just sort of think of it as being a bigger wyvern.

She stomps back towards the royal party, everyone gathered to see the first wave of ships off either backing out of the way of the irate demigoddess or pretending that she's not there disrupting procedures.

"Why are you bothering with these midget things when you've got a full-sized dragon, huh?"

The wyvern riders might be getting offended, but they've got enough sense to keep it off their faces.

"Because I have only one dragon, and only so many ships to carry food."

Wyverns look impressive close-up, but a moment's consideration makes their limitations readily apparent. Their wings are part of their forelimbs, much like those of bats, and as such they struggle to bring their claws to bear against an enemy. They have to bite at them instead, and worse still, their muzzles are relatively short. As a result, having them directly attack inevitably puts their eyes within easy reach of their targets. They also lack the breath attack of their larger kin, and their wings are proportionally more fragile as well. Standard practice for wyverns caught on the ground is, firstly, to get airborne as fast as possible, or if it isn't to spin and use their tail to knock away infantry to create space.

"I could get more. So long as you promise to give Hardy lots of sacrifices."

Their riders are armed with lances, but that's more so they can stab at things while their wyvern is on the ground than because they ever do lance charges. When they fight, they're more likely to do so using bows or by dropping flasks of burning oil. We also have barrels of gunpowder they could drop, but the wyverns aren't trained for that and the demonstration we did involved tying the barrel to the wyvern's barrel. Between the difficulty in judging the fusing and the effect of the extra weight on the wyvern's endurance and agility, it's not an efficient use for them.

"Even if I had more dragons, that doesn't change the supply situation. I-."

"Sure looks like a lot of ships to me."

So we don't. We get rid of their armour and replace it with leather and wool for operating at higher altitude and in rain. We get rid of their weapons and give them charts and pencils and messenger satchels. Perhaps we could reconsider if we'd been able to attract a few more magicians; giving them more strategic and tactical mobility would result in a massive improvement in battlefield effectiveness. They could advance, throw out a few explosive bolts and then retreat on wyvernback with their own exhaustion being no issue. But… No. That would detract from the gunpowder weapons and we need that to be the focus in order to assure Diabo's ascension.

"It is a lot of ships. And I'm afraid that we need all of them."

In addition to our new model warships, there are cargo ships to bring supplies and to transport the rest of our soldiers once we've established a bridgehead. And that's important, because as Winston Churchill would tell you, getting significant amounts of men and materiel off ships without a decent port is an exercise in sloth. The plan is that we'll use smaller ships to transport Warrior Bunnies and the first wave of blunderbussers and legionaries to the enemy coast, then use the ships and their guns to attack the port from the sea while they attack from the land. The city is fortified, but it isn't designed to resist cannonade and we don't need the walls intact.

Bit of a shame that we haven't been able to train sappers or engineers in the use of gunpowder.

"What for?!"

Prince Diabo looks around at the crowds watching the embarkation.

"For things I don't intend to tell you about where people could hear."

We're pretty sure that the people we're attacking know that something is coming. The remote location of our workshops have kept us free of spies-. Free of foreign spies, at least. And building new ships wasn't something that was going to alarm the Empire's neighbours too greatly. But training gun crews to work on ships could only be concealed so much, to say nothing of preventing the crews from talking about their work in taverns. So we haven't bothered putting too much effort into it. The specifics of what we're going to do with the force we're building and how we're going to do it are highly secret, but our main form of surprise comes from the time it would take for a spy to get a message back to their masters and the difficult in describing what a cannon actually is.

And the implication that Prince Diabo's dragon is our main weapon for breaching their walls.

"Who cares who hears, you've got a dragon!"

"Dragons are impressive, but they're hardly unbeatable."

Giselle stares at him like he's a stupid heretic for a moment, then turns and stomps-

"Ow."

-off towards the catering area, her tail striking Diabo in the side as she goes.

"There's no way that actually hurt."

"It did a little."

"The only way that could have hurt is if you wanted it to." Hm. "Though if your tastes run that way, I suppose that she wouldn't be a terrible choice for princess consort."

He raises his left hand a little so that he can better stare at me in horror.

"And you wouldn't have to worry about her getting assassinated or trying to usurp you, and if things are a little rocky you can just wait until she undergoes apotheosis and then you're free."

"Oh God of Ambition, please do not suggest anything like that ever again."

"No promises. Or how about this one?"

A trio of knights in the colours of the Order of the Rose are approaching the royal pavilion, and I feel Diabo checking to make sure that his half-sister isn't amongst them. Their leader has truly ridiculous hair and generally gives the impression of someone who shouldn't be anywhere near a actual war zone, while the two behind her look like they shouldn't have bet their pensions on the chariot racing.

"Prince Diabo El Caesar!"

"Where?"

"I-!" The wind leaves her hair sails. "What?"

Prince Diabo covers me with his right hand. "Dame Bozes Co Palesti. Have you come for the ceremony?"

"I have not. By order of the senate, we will be accompanying your fleet to ensure that the senate have an accurate picture of events!"

"I would have appreciated more notice, but that's fine. I will be leaving-."

"I will accompany you! I am well accustomed to sea travel!"

"I will be travelling on dragon back, but don't worry. There's plenty of room." She gulps. "I'll have to see what the leatherworkers can do about a second saddle."

 

[Darko]

wyvern riders are might be getting

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"riders might"

attack inevitably their eyes within easy

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"puts their eyes"

wyvern's enduring and agility, it's not an efficient use for them.

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"endurance"

with the force we're build and how

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"building"

"There's no way that actually hurt."

"It did a little."

"The only way that could have hurt is if you wanted it to."

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She is blessed by a god, so she may be able to bypass at least some things.

 

[GhostKing 666]

For all of their talents, the Romans were not good ship builders. I don't really know 'why'. Yes, Britain needed good ships to go anywhere, but Italy had an extensive coastline. My best guess is that it was because the people who were most likely to attack them were the German tribes who were landlocked and not technologically able.

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They actually did have pretty good ship building. For the time period. Now, it's true that Rome was never a true naval power, but that's largely because after they conquered the various different powers on the Mediterranean, there really wasn't anyone else left who could challenge them(Carthage, Greece, Egypt, etc.), with the Mediterranean being outright referred to as a "Roman Lake" during the Imperial era.

Not to mention the fact that the Mediterranean is a very different sea compared to the Atlantic or North Sea.

Even when they conquered England, I don't remember my own forebears meeting them at sea.

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They didn't. I'm honestly not sure if any of the groups living in England at the time even had the means to construct ships that could fight the Romans at sea(cross the channel sure but fight Roman ships not so much).

Whereas the British Empire had to fight Spain and France at sea.

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They also had the benefit of being several hundred years down the line with a lot of major advancements in naval construction and ship building between them and the Roman period. That's hardly a proper comparison.