Esquestria: The House of the Sun - A pony cultist experience

[Pittauro]

If we get wounded (or somehow get Personal Edge but I think that idea is pure undiluted copium) we get to refund the Biedde AP under the same rules as we refunded the snekrament AP. In other words time has already passed and we wouldn't be able to do Steppes FO because we're further in the month in-universe, but we would probably be allowed to research items we found in this expedition because the AP is taking place after the actions that have already happened.

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I wouldn't call it copium, but it's definitely unlikely.

If I had to put a number to it, I'd guess 10% to 20%. We're asking not just for a changeling as good as shining armor to exist (which is possible. I could see Pharinx be that good for example... or post ascension Thorax, but he obviously doesn't count), but for them to have survived the initial hive assault AND for them to be here, right now.

so... possible, but unlikely.

 

[Shaper47]

but damn, We could bring Luna to All-5 by turn 24 or 25 if we really wanted to!

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I think Sacraments are special and we need to throw her at the Names for them.

So something like having Selene spend an AP challenging Biedde or getting the Silver Key from Axe.

Velvet's good but I don't think she counts as one who is very great. That's level 7 I think.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Honestly I don't see how anyone expects to find a worthy opponent in this hive, a small pile of bits maybe(but doubtful, they don't really have a reason to stockpile them) but even the big hive had only one worthy opponent for Comet and I doubt that there's anyone close to that here

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Well looking at the Changeling and Chrysalis PoVs way back in the "All the Queen's Drones" update, the pertinent phrases are as follows:

You are a changeling husk. One of the oldest and strongest alive, and currently the oldest and strongest left at the Hive, at your Queen's orders, to safeguard it during her absence...

...But like you said, your Hive is nearly empty of your drones and husks.

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Comet fought the strongest husk of the Reaguard, but not the oldest or strongest husk overall. And the big hive was missing most of its grown inhabitants. Now, undoubtedly some of the other premier husks were lost when the changelings lost their ability to shapeshift in front of a bunch of royal guards or whatever, but there is no reason to think that all of them were wiped out. After all, if there had only been a handful of Changeling survivors then proto-hives would not exist.

 

[Shaper47]

and we can expect that the Watchponies hurdle of the Jailbreak to be about as bad on the max roll we had to what to expect normally on assaulting a changeling hive.

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To be fair through we couldn't run away there.

Here and now we can do stuff like run away (Moth), collapse the walls to cause a cave in (Forge), stuff like that.

 

[Pittauro]

I think Sacraments are special and we need to throw her at the Names for them.

So something like having Selene spend an AP challenging Biedde or getting the Silver Key from Axe.

Velvet's good but I don't think she counts as one who is very great. That's level 7 I think.

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while that's true, we've also been told that Bird had no interest in us having our followers get Sacraments until such a time as Velvet got hers, so it would make sense if he wouldn't allow us to push Selene for them until we have all 4 of them.

also it's not JUST about the Name Sacraments (though we could at the very least get her Biedde's Edge, and fairly easily too, if he's willing and applies the same challenge. and of course Axe's Knock, as she's friendly).

There's also the "personal" sacraments. Admittedly we don't know if Luna's personal Moth and Winter are "acceptable" to her. Velvet's are pretty distasteful, though we ARE doing Moth and MIGHT still do Winter...

 

[ses]

Comet fought the strongest husk of the Reaguard, but not the oldest or strongest husk overall. And the big hive was missing most of its grown inhabitants. Now, undoubtedly some of the other premier husks were lost when the changelings lost their ability to shapeshift, but there is no reason to think that all of them were wiped out. After all, if there had only been a handful of Changeling survivors then proto-hives would not exist.

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Excellent use of citing the text, I really appreciate you finding relevant excerpts.

Lets see... Comet did NOT get his Edge sacrament by killing that guy, and he was explicitly described by Our Lady Of Wires as "being pissed" that he didn't get Sacrament during the assault. Meaning that he did think there was a realistic chance of finding a Foe. So chryssy's champion husks were probably just under the threshold.

We know that there was foreshadowing on some of the husks having the Dream that didn't really go anywhere during the Chryssy POV section, so there may be initial forays into the Lores among the proto-hive. Reaching Edge 4 automatically designates you as a Worthy Opponent no matter how many crippling negative traits you have on you, but there's basically zero chance that their top bug has Edge 4 anyway. We know from Shiny that Edge 0 can be a Worthy Opponent just by being a normal Heroic figure. Can an Edge 1 or 2 champion bug be a Worthy Opponent?

Copper Secateur had Edge 2 and pretty much was certain not to have been one (and in fact if Copper had Edge 3 she would have matched Shiny's personal combat bonus but I would have bet cash money that Edge 3 Copper wouldn't have been Worthy, I think Shiny might actually have scraped slightly under the normal objective minimum for his heroism rather than raw stat total)but a husk existing that was slightly stronger than the guy Comet merked that had Edge 1 from the Ashen Wastes... I think I might sign on to as much as 10% probability.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Excellent use of citing the text, I really appreciate you finding relevant excerpts.

Lets see... Comet did NOT get his Edge sacrament by killing that guy, and he was explicitly described by Our Lady Of Wires as "being pissed" that he didn't get Sacrament during the assault. Meaning that he did think there was a realistic chance of finding a Foe. So chryssy's champion husks were probably just under the threshold.

We know that there was foreshadowing on some of the husks having the Dream that didn't really go anywhere during the Chryssy POV section, so there may be initial forays into the Lores among the proto-hive. Reaching Edge 4 automatically designates you as a Worthy Opponent no matter how many crippling negative traits you have on you, but there's basically zero chance that their top bug has Edge 4 anyway. We know from Shiny that Edge 0 can be a Worthy Opponent just by being a normal Heroic figure. Can an Edge 1 or 2 champion bug be a Worthy Opponent?

Copper Secateur had Edge 2 and pretty much was certain not to have been one (and in fact if Copper had Edge 3 she would have matched Shiny's personal combat bonus but I would have bet cash money that Edge 3 Copper wouldn't have been Worthy, I think Shiny might actually have scraped slightly under the normal objective minimum for his heroism rather than raw stat total)but a husk existing that was slightly stronger than the guy Comet merked that had Edge 1 from the Ashen Wastes... I think I might sign on to as much as 10% probability.

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Well we know that Comet didn't use the right words, he just decapitated the Husk out of nowhere. It would be hilarious if the only reason it didn't count was because he didn't say the right words at the time.

It'd be even funnier if the Master told him about it afterwards.

 

[Anjaxis]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[ses]

Well we know that Comet didn't use the right words, he just decapitated the Husk out of nowhere. It would be hilarious if the only reason it didn't count was because he didn't say the right words at the time.

It'd be even funnier if the Master told him about it afterwards.

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That's funny but literally impossible. Edge 4 comes with instinctive understanding of who is Worthy, and Comet specifically cites Shining to be the very first Worthy individual he'd ever seen that wasn't a Name or Alicorn.

 

[Solace2117]

In fairness it's entirely possible that only a pony or Alicorn can be a worthy opponent. Maybe a Name that isn't one, though Axe isn't on the list and she is the Name that's not a pony, but probably has enough combat skills to qualify. Unless I'm missing someone.

 

[ses]

In fairness it's entirely possible that only a pony or Alicorn can be a worthy opponent. Maybe a Name that isn't one, though Axe isn't on the list and she is the Name that's not a pony, but probably has enough combat skills to qualify. Unless I'm missing someone.

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Non-Marinette Names dont qualify because they're not fully present in the Wake and therefore wont die for real if their avatar gets got. The price has always been blood. It can't count unless someone dies for real.

It's probably the case that Worthy Foes must be fully people and not just a big gribbly monster, but I don't think it's possible that a dragonslayer wouldn't qualify as slaying a worthy foe. That's exactly the sort of epic battle that Edge wants to see.

 

[Pittauro]

I THINK it was mentioned Chrysalis was "worthy", but I'm admittedly not sure.

It's still in question if a sufficiently strong monster would count. Especially when we consider that at least SOME monsters in MLP can actually talk.

 

[Earth-Destroyer]

I am pretty sure the Worthy Moniker means they have reached their potential in combat. Potential talent is not enough, it has to be realized talent. Course that requires they have a talent for combat in the first place as well.

In the very family friendly world of ponies, both are rare. And finding someone with both traits is even rarer.

 

[Greymere]

I THINK it was mentioned Chrysalis was "worthy", but I'm admittedly not sure.

It's still in question if a sufficiently strong monster would count. Especially when we consider that at least SOME monsters in MLP can actually talk.

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I don't think it was ever explicitly mentioned, but I would be very surprised if she wouldn't have counted.

 

[MisRAR1]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[Solace2117]

Non-Marinette Names dont qualify because they're not fully present in the Wake and therefore wont die for real if their avatar gets got. The price has always been blood. It can't count unless someone dies for real.

It's probably the case that Worthy Foes must be fully people and not just a big gribbly monster, but I don't think it's possible that a dragonslayer wouldn't qualify as slaying a worthy foe. That's exactly the sort of epic battle that Edge wants to see.

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All fair more just a thought because of how pony centric the Manse is.

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I once more campaign for possible loot and minimal suspicion without handicapping Velvet. Disregard one additional Bureau Lore, avoid political headaches, and lay claim to what rewards there may be.

 

[Bakkasama]

[X] Plan: Practical Demonstration
-[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
-[X] (LORES) "We have cutting edge equipment. Watch carefully."

 

[OurLadyOfWires]

Wait, if Challenging a Worthy Opponent makes every pony unable to interfere in a combat, would that mean such Opponents cannot use any allies or reinforcements? If so that's amazing @OurLadyOfWires.

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Yes, and in fact-

Those are words that have been spoken, again and again, for as long as ponies have been in existence. Words whose mere utterance would be enough to open a wide gap even in the most chaotic of battlefields. For everypony who heard them would understand that a personal war was about to erupt, and that to stand between the two challengers would be to invite a gruesome death.

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-that is part of the reason why these words were instituted to begin with.

And a short comment on Edge Challenges. They are more than just a battle. I won't get into too much detail, because this is something I hope we have the opportunity to address in the story later on.
However, I must still say that there is something that Shining Armor, the Princesses, Mareinette and Edge 4 adepts have in common, that is lacking in a monster that (numerically and mechanically) is stronger than Shining, but that would still not qualify as a worthy opponent.

But I won't say anything else on this. If you find one, a vote will be opened.

@OurLadyOfWires Does Selene know about Velvet's full arsenal or trust her enough to speak about dangerous plans for the Celestia issue or would that require a social with her?

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Be a patient mother and let Selene come to you.

@OurLadyOfWires how will you use our AotL charges? On the one hand we want to save them for worthy enemy or Biedde, on the other we don't want to get hurt...

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My current draft is "if you get close enough to one wound, pop one AotL, and if you get wounded once, pop as many as needed to prioritize survival".

You, the thread, are part of Velvet's thoughts. So, she knows about her plan to challenge Biedde, and will use her resources accordingly.

@OurLadyOfWires I don't suppose you could let us take that now before the expedition, considering it could make a difference? It doesn't even really need a vote, it seems like the objective best choice and I don't think anyone would complain.

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No.

You crammed enough studying in the first half of the turn, and the Bureau assault is happening "early enough" (as opposed to "in the end of the month" where more dangerous activities usually happen) for me to be okay with you doing some studying after the assault.



I don't see any more pings, but please let me know if I am wrong. And I hope you are all doing well.

And voting is still open, but here is our current tally.

Neck to neck no less.

Adhoc vote count started by OurLadyOfWires on Dec 3, 2025 at 2:10 AM, finished with 130 posts and 26 votes.

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  12 people have voted

  [X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing
  -[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
  -[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

  • Greymere
  • Potdl
  • Arrkhon
  • Demilich
  • Cochimetl
  • SolemLupus
  • Sk1lz3r
  • Earth-Destroyer
  • Nevermort
  • Anjaxis
  • MisRAR1
  • DelightedOne

  12 people have voted

  [X] Plan: Maximum Rewards
  -[X] (TROOPS) "I will be in there. Watch for imposters."
  -[X] (LORES) "Try to keep up."

  • ses
  • Shaper47
  • Solace2117
  • Diamondfiend
  • Talon Tiger Dino
  • Random Anon
  • spiderhellian
  • Alan975
  • jelloloaf
  • Pittauro
  • des-pair-2
  • DelightedOne

  4 people have voted

  [X] Plan: Practical Demonstration
  -[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
  -[X] (LORES) "We have cutting edge equipment. Watch carefully."

  • Limabot
  • Bakkasama
  • jason1stlegion
  • des-pair-2

  1 people have voted

  [X] Plan: Maximum Safety
  -[X] (TROOPS) "I will take point."
  -[X] (LORES) "Lucky Brush and Steady Step will be our on-the-grounds expert."

  • des-pair-2

 

[ses]

However, I must still say that there is something that Shining Armor, the Princesses, Mareinette and Edge 4 adepts have in common, that is lacking in a monster that (numerically and mechanically) is stronger than Shining, but that would still not qualify as a worthy opponent.

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The husks are receiving the Dream as per the Chryssy POV segment, so that means changelings should be valid now. I can't possibly imagine that someone who has had the Dream doesn't qualify. They possess the inherent capacity to ascend the Mansus and potentially reach GLORY, a potentiality that we'd be snuffing out as a sacrifice to our own quest to climb.

(Though of course even before than, changeling blood was accepted as the Currency of the World, blood accepted as sacrifice, so I think that would have been the important thing regardless. Boar blood is not the currency of the world, Mareinette's dinner choices notwithstanding.)

Blood of the parents, blood of the womb. The pulsing blood of those who help, and the spilt blood of those who would hinder. Because that crude word, she says, is more than just the ruby fluid that runs through your veins. After all, if blood was just a liquid, then it would never be accepted as sacrifice, and it would never be used to measure lives.

"It is the younger drones, my Queen," you say, already cringing in regret even though you have been ordered to speak. "They have been seeing things when they sleep. Visions that still cling to them even after they wake up. Ghostly thoughts that cause them fear, to the point that they can speak of little else."

You can see your Queen's visage turning into a disapproving scowl, and already you regret not having dealt with the matter you are telling her about before this scheduled report.

And you are about to continue speaking, you are about to open your mouth to assure her that this is but a small matter, something that you will take care of yourself. But before you have the chance to do so-

"Wait a minute… you mean the drones are dreaming?" she says, her tone… not exactly disapproving, but also not curious either. She almost sounds cautious, her gaze turning thoughtful as she slowly continues to speak. "Tell me, husk, what are these dreams like? You mentioned they are feeling fear, right? What do the drones say, when they wake up after those dreams?"

The Queen sounds less displeased, now, at least towards you. So, you answer her a little more confidently.

"They speak of a dark place, my Queen. Their words vary, but most of them inevitably describe a dark forest an-"

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I suppose that does mean that the older husks that might be strong enough to challenge Shiny might not be ensouled enough to Dream though... But on the other hand the Moldywarp Stone is gone and no longer hiding their memories from themselves... so who can say?

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

I think the answer is dedication. Whether to Harmony, or a Kingdom, or Edge itself, you need the desire to shape yourself into a weapon that no mindless beast could develop.

You also need to not be a complete chump at it though.

 

[SilentPencil]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[Quaxotia]

It's been a while, and I missed the quest's return. But I'm glad that it's alive and kicking.

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

I'm not really expecting a huge amount of goodies here, let alone a worthy opponent. But we could use the spare bits, and if Velvet Covers is to be truly worthy of an edge sacrament, then she must be capable of this much.

 

[ses]

You order three of them to go deal with that. This storm, whatever it is, is certainly being caused by a magical beast. A group of husks such as yourself is capable of dealing with manticores, and hydras, and even an Ursa Minor, so the three of them will certainly be able to handle that.

You send out three of your husks.

But several minutes later, you realize that nothing else has happened. No runner has returned from the outer parts of the Hive, bringing reports of what is going on. None of the three husks return. Nothing. And given how the only way to communicate within the Hive is through word of mouth, that means you are effectively blind inside the throne room. The throne room itself is a central room, ideal for coordinating and controlling the Hive, but only if you actually have changelings coming and going to act as your emissaries.

You order two more of your husks to go, but with specific orders to only find out what is happening and then return, regardless of what they see.

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On the subject of text citations. Giant fucking frontal assault with Windigoes and Comet Feet and two Names. And the officer on duty dispatches 3 elite mooks at a time to investigate.

Bro I dont think Velvet is getting hit by -40 Outnumbered penalties. Comet Feet didn't fight more than 3 enemies at a time and we've got 4 Moth levels on him.

This makes me feel a lot more confident about not receiving 40 incoming attack rolls over the course of the expedition fishing for nat100s unless we get extremely unlucky and crit-fail some Moth or Knock checks. Updating my probability of wound received to something more like 20% between the inherent danger and risk of nat100s.

20% chance of losing 80% of the Edge sacrament for -16% sacrament cost, lets say 10% chance of getting a free Personal Edge and gaining Sacrament plus a full Velvet AP refunded? Net negative on pure sacrament but it kind of almost pays back the risk in just that category. Not to mention the actual loot, and the minimum suspicion from Eclipse? Aka the actual payoffs of the option?

 

[Uruguayan spider]

[X] Plan: Maximum Lore Bequeathing

 

[dcoconeo]

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards
[X] Plan: Practical Demonstration
Personal Health Risk is fine, Eclipse Risk is not because we cannot easily deal with that at all - one more plate to crash?

 

[AuthorTransient]

I have to go with this if I want to drop the Forge's Renewal, I think.

[X] Plan: Maximum Rewards

 

[Sk1lz3r]

@OurLadyOfWires how do we narratively justify our bureau becoming Lore Competent to the outside or even non initiated bureau members? I get that the primers are a minor "start" that just gives some knowledge of the appropriate type. But once the lores grow to level 3 or 4 and start getting really obvious how do we explain it to celestia?

Or is Velvet just going to make sure the entire bureau stays hush-hush on matters above level 1 lore?

 

[Arrkhon]

But once the lores grow to level 3 or 4 and start getting really obvious how do we explain it to celestia?

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"Oh it's just some obscure type of ancient magic I found in my studies back in the day, it feels slightly evil and gives you dangerous nightmares so I didn't share it with anyone until I found trustworthy ponies that needed it"
But seriously, why wouldn't it work? It's moderately suspicious but Lores are pretty dangerous and unpleasant and she does trust us a lot, the biggest snag would be why we didn't share it with her once Eclipse started giving us Lantern dust

 

[Talon Tiger Dino]

Let us keep in mind our immediate goals: keeping Cherenkolt and Baldomare in the Wake. What do these goals require? Money. Money for the Rituals to find stuff, money for the Expeditions to get the stuff, and in Cherenkolt's case money to refine the stuff we got and money for the ritual to cure Velvet's ensuing radiation poisoning.

What do our remaining Sacraments after this turn require? Well, for Personal Forge it's money for alchemical ingredients. For Cherenkolt Forge it's money for workshop materials. For Winter it's money for rituals. For Edge (if we fail) it's money for rituals. For Baldomare Secret Histories it's money for an Expedition with her. For personal Secret Histories it might be money for some preparatory AotLs, I don't remember the exact mechanics for it. For Moth we need Spoiled Rich. For Mareinette Grail we need a prisoner. For personal Grail we need some Confidantes. For Personal Lantern we need a prisoner. For Baldomare Lantern we need people to go with her on an expedition, but if you want MitLs then you need money to summon them.

Oh, and if we fail to get Edge this turn then we'll need money to either keep Biedde in the Wake or to summon him back later.

Note how our most (6-6.5/11) of our immediate and long-term methods of accruing power require bits. Note how none of our immediate goals require a 3-circle ritual site. Note how summoning things with said 3-circle ritual site would cost money. What do you think we should be prioritizing? Advancing the chance of getting a ritual site by a turn, or increasing the chance of finding something of monetary value in the hive?